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DMCM
03-01-2010, 02:12 PM
I'm gonna say this as politely as I can, because Evil was anything but polite to FU: I ask any of the mods to look through the PMs thoroughly and examine the gorunds for this ban. FU asked a simple question regarding the preseason schedule. Evil started attacking FU without any sort of provocation and without any possible justification. When FU tried to contest, Evil decided to ban him. As you can read in the PMs this was 100% based on bias against FU from before he joined IL. Again, if you read the PMs I'm sure you'll see all of this and the ban should be removed.

Now I'm only gonna say this once. Flight and myself have thought about it and we are honestly considering dropping out of APL3 if the ban is not removed. Iron Legends has always been a respectful clan, but if the admins go out of their way to attack a member of our team and arbitrarily ban him we won't stand for it.

eth
03-01-2010, 02:14 PM
I heard about this and thought he was unbanned more or less immediately by another admin?

DMCM
03-01-2010, 02:16 PM
Hmmmm, who did and when?


Because evil posted on the other thread yesterday that "it won't be overturned"

[Y]
03-01-2010, 02:31 PM
Arghhh DMCM! This is exactly the kind of thread I was hoping wouldn't be created!

A few details that may have been missed:
-I am banned from only the first two weeks of APL3 (not counting preseason)
-Not sure if I've been banned and then unbanned from the PL servers (I haven't gotten the "you've been banned" message when I tried joining the servers)
-I've gotten no notice that my suspension has been removed, so I'm assuming I still can't play for the first 2 weeks of APL3.

If my suspension isn't removed, however, please don't drop out of APL3. It's flight's last season, and with or without me, he should enjoy it.

Here's my official suspension notice:

Player: IL|FU

Major infractions as judged by an official: (2) week suspension

Any unsportsmanlike action which includes but is not limited to (Racism, Profanity, Rude Acts, Vulgar Acts, Acts of Belligerence, and Disrespect of an Official) may be reviewed and are reason for filing a disputed.

Specific: Disrespect towards an official, and rude acts

Anymore instances will result in:
Sever infractions as judged by an official: (3) month suspension

Thanks, this ban will begin March 7th, and end the 14th. You will miss 2 official matches (you can't play the 4 schedules matches, but after that you are good).

Stormich
03-01-2010, 03:18 PM
Send me their discussion via PM

Evan20000
03-01-2010, 03:28 PM
What is with the policy of of "ZOMG, one of my members is gone! BOYCOTT!!!!"? I mean, really? KLF was trying to make a statement with the shock value of the whole thing, but that's the thing about shock value, it only works once.

DMCM
03-01-2010, 03:53 PM
I accidentally deleted my PMs today :(

FU or Flight can send it to you Stormich and to Mike too since he also asked.

DMCM
03-01-2010, 03:56 PM
What is with the policy of of "ZOMG, one of my members is gone! BOYCOTT!!!!"? I mean, really? KLF was trying to make a statement with the shock value of the whole thing, but that's the thing about shock value, it only works once.

Simple explanation: That's what teams are for. It's not just a bunch of random people with the same tag before their name. FU didn't ask for any of this, as you can see in his post he didn't want any more drama from this. But I got a bad temper when it comes to injustice so I'm sticking up for my team to the end.

evilarsenal
03-01-2010, 04:28 PM
Now I'm only gonna say this once. Flight and myself have thought about it and we are honestly considering dropping out of APL3 if the ban is not removed. Iron Legends has always been a respectful clan, but if the admins go out of their way to attack a member of our team and arbitrarily ban him we won't stand for it.

Now I'm only gonna say this once. Flight and myself have thought about it and we are honestly considering dropping out of APL3 if the ban is not removed. Iron Legends has always been a respectful clan, but if the players go out of their way to attack an admin and its league and arbitrarily for a certain hatred, and convince his teammates and everyone else with false one-sided evidence

i thought he was wood, such behavior...

evilarsenal
03-01-2010, 04:34 PM
oh also, it doesnt matter if he's banned from the server or not, he can go there, just not play matches... I never banned him for anything at the server... so why was he banned?

[Y]
03-01-2010, 04:36 PM
"false one-sided evidence"

roflmao

Oh, this just doesn't end, does it? I really didn't think you'd try to justify your words to the point of accusing me of providing false evidence, but it looks like I was wrong.

Alright, evil. So what's your side of the evidence? Can you plz post it here so that we can all see the truth and shut down all of the lies that I've been spreading?

CCN
03-01-2010, 05:00 PM
What is with the policy of of "ZOMG, one of my members is gone! BOYCOTT!!!!"? I mean, really? KLF was trying to make a statement with the shock value of the whole thing, but that's the thing about shock value, it only works once.

Well teams stick by their members through good times and bad. That's how I see it, thats what I look for in a team.
The KLF thread closing/move to social clan was a bit shocking to me too (with the whole thread locking/ disarray), I'm glad it's reversed :)

Evil "but if the players go out of their way to attack an admin and its league and arbitrarily for a certain hatred, and convince his teammates and everyone else with false one-sided evidence"

I mean, you're saying its one sided so i'd like to see the PM's you believe are missing, could you please PM to me.

Triped
03-01-2010, 05:07 PM
Well teams stick by their members through good times and bad. That's how I see it, thats what I look for in a team.
The KLF thread closing/move to social clan was a bit shocking to me too (with the whole thread locking/ disarray), I'm glad it's reversed :)

Evil "but if the players go out of their way to attack an admin and its league and arbitrarily for a certain hatred, and convince his teammates and everyone else with false one-sided evidence"

I mean, you're saying its one sided so i'd like to see the PM's you believe are missing, could you please PM to me.

Another day, another routine civil rights protest?

tyr
03-01-2010, 05:16 PM
http://altitudegame.com/forums/showpost.php?p=39439&postcount=4

Why was the message deleted ?

Pieface
03-01-2010, 05:22 PM
http://altitudegame.com/forums/showpost.php?p=39439&postcount=4

Why was the message deleted ?

The original text of that message was "Are we supposed to play all of these matches on a certain date? If not, then why the specific times?"

Evil responded telling FU he was a troll, and FU edited the message with the reason "apparently asking a question in an Evil™ Thread is now called trolling and being a wiseass."

Just a bit of extra information there in case it helps everyone get a better handle on the situation.

[Y]
03-01-2010, 05:26 PM
Because it was resolved and apparently too offensive to evilarsenal.

It was (or something very close to):
"Are we supposed to play all of these matches on a certain day? If not, then why the specific times?"

Again, I'll send you the conversation between evilarsenal and I if you want, but I'll understand if you'd rather read evilarsenal's PMs than my "false one-sided evidence".

edit: darn silent creeper mod, typing faster than me :P

tyr
03-01-2010, 05:32 PM
Session Start: lundi 01 mars 2010 [16:13:06] CET
[16:20] You whisper to EvilArsenal: Evil, why is FU banned again ?
[16:22] EvilArsenal whispers: because he was vulgar towards apl, as basically, demeaning it trying to make it look bad
[16:22] EvilArsenal whispers: and not listening to me, about stopping it
[16:22] EvilArsenal whispers: he edited most of his posts after i warned him, and then is turning it on me
[16:23] EvilArsenal whispers: i dont have any more proof cuz i did not save them before he edited his posts
[16:23] You whisper to EvilArsenal: lol k :D

Is there any other post that Evil mentioned ? (I didnt receive any PM about this from anyone.)

CCN
03-01-2010, 05:34 PM
Another day, another routine civil rights protest?

I spotted a troll, this troll likes to use ad hominem attacks, this troll didn't read my post, this troll didn't take the time to notice that I have stayed quite away from involving myself in this apart from asking for information (i.e. having FU's Pm's I didn't jump down Evil's throat but asked what evil believed was missing/edited).

But what can you expect from a person who uses ad hominem. Nothing. Please crawl back into your little troll hole.

Edit: I accidentally wrote tool instead of troll for a bit of it.

classicallad
03-01-2010, 05:42 PM
What is with the policy of of "ZOMG, one of my members is gone! BOYCOTT!!!!"? I mean, really? KLF was trying to make a statement with the shock value of the whole thing, but that's the thing about shock value, it only works once.

It wasnt done for the shock value at all. I was sticking by my principles but after a conversation with a respected name in the community who will remain anon, i was instructed to put KLF back in and not to worry about the rest.

Having said all that im tired of these constant problems and wars with admins.

Im dreaming of pastures new but rome wasn't built in a day.

nesnl
03-01-2010, 05:55 PM
I think CCN must get paid every time he uses the phrase "ad hominem." I think he has used it on average about 3.6 times per post in his last 100 posts. Confirm/deny?

classicallad
03-01-2010, 05:57 PM
No its true Maim he does, i dont even know what an ad hominem is but its sounds cool though so im with CCN all the way, naturally =]

CCN
03-01-2010, 06:06 PM
I think CCN must get paid every time he uses the phrase "ad hominem." I think he has used it on average about 3.6 times per post in his last 100 posts. Confirm/deny?

Confirmed.



Honestly though, if my question above seems offensive then ignore it. I don't plan to get involved here, it's really not worth it imo.




ad hominem ad hominem ad hominem

combat
03-01-2010, 06:32 PM
Guys can we just get a final decision on this? I thought it was a 2 week suspension. Why are we all acting like its a perma-ban. I never read any of the PMs and I really didn't feel like following this like a soap-opera. Forgive and forget? If his actions weren't all that worthy of said punishment, can we just drop this.

tyr
03-01-2010, 06:33 PM
This is getting stupid.
Pie just sent me FU's version of the events but that's not necessarily what happened exactly

irc logs

Session Time: Wed Feb 24 00:00:01 2010

[removed irrelevant stuff]

(18:10:12) *• Joins: EvilArsenal (~chatzilla@141.133.164.174)
(18:10:17) *(EvilArsenal) SUP
(18:10:24) *(EvilArsenal) REQUEST TO BAN HAMMER DUMBASS
(18:10:31) *(Maimer) wat
(18:10:40) *(EvilArsenal) [Y] on forums
(18:10:48) *(EvilArsenal) idk who the hell he is and trolls the **** outta me and apl
(18:10:52) *(Maimer) I thought he quit altitude
(18:11:00) *(EvilArsenal) did he
(18:11:07) *(EvilArsenal) then it wont matter if i ban him forever?
(18:11:07) *(Maimer) I think thats either IL|FU or York
(18:11:10) *(Maimer) I am not sure
(18:11:20) *(EvilArsenal) anyone care if i ban him :|
(18:11:22) *(Maimer) I dont think he is trolling you
(18:11:26) *(EvilArsenal) he is
(18:11:29) *(Maimer) I think he is just stupid
(18:11:32) *(EvilArsenal) he actually just admitted it
(18:11:38) *(Maimer) where?
(18:11:41) *(EvilArsenal) in game
(18:11:52) *(EvilArsenal) watever
(18:12:15) *(Maimer) well you just said
(18:12:21) *(Maimer) you didn't know who the hell he was
(18:12:29) *(Maimer) so how can someone troll you in game who you don't even know who it is
(18:12:42) *(Maimer) stormich
(18:13:08) *(EvilArsenal) i mean
(18:13:10) *(EvilArsenal) he was $e
(18:13:12) *(EvilArsenal) and [Y]
(18:13:15) *(EvilArsenal) idk who taht is
(18:13:18) *(EvilArsenal) on the forums
(18:13:36) *(EvilArsenal) i have them both added
(18:13:40) *(EvilArsenal) and i removed both of them
(18:13:44) *(EvilArsenal) cuz they both annoying
(18:14:39) *(EvilArsenal) Major infractions as judged by an official: (2) week suspension
(18:14:46) *(EvilArsenal) Any unsportsmanlike action which includes but is not limited to (Racism, Profanity, Rude Acts, Vulgar Acts, Acts of Belligerence, and Disrespect of an Official) may be reviewed and are reason for filing a disputed.
(18:14:53) *(EvilArsenal) so disrespect of an official
(18:14:57) *(EvilArsenal) yay i love the rules i made
(18:16:15) *(@Stormich) hey
(18:16:16) *(@Stormich) sorry
(18:16:19) *(@Stormich) i was showering
(18:16:29) *(EvilArsenal) sup
(18:16:30) *(EvilArsenal) stormich
(18:16:32) *(Maimer) hey who is [Y]
(18:16:33) *(EvilArsenal) imma ban [Y]
(18:16:34) *(EvilArsenal) idk
(18:16:36) *(EvilArsenal) for 2 weeks
(18:16:36) *(@Stormich) Y is FU
(18:16:38) *(EvilArsenal) first 2 weeks
(18:16:42) *(EvilArsenal) of APL
(18:16:44) *(@Stormich) lol
(18:16:44) *(EvilArsenal) not preseason
(18:16:48) *(EvilArsenal) cuz disrespect
(18:16:51) *(EvilArsenal) hey its in the rules ;P
(18:16:59) *(@Stormich) haha
(18:17:02) *(EvilArsenal) feel free to exploit or tell me to add anything
(18:17:09) *(@Stormich) hes IL|FU
(18:17:11) *(EvilArsenal) k
(18:17:19) *(EvilArsenal) imma pm him and post on IL thread
(18:17:20) *(`tyr) FU is stupid
(18:17:23) *(Maimer) peple are gonna flip their ****
(18:17:25) *(`tyr) its a known fact
(18:17:26) *(@Stormich) i dont think 2 weeks are really necessary
(18:17:28) *(@Stormich) but w/e
(18:17:28) *(@Stormich) lol
(18:17:38) *(`tyr) Evil
(18:17:53) *(@Stormich) FU is a kid lol
(18:17:56) *(`tyr) dont make us look like banfags again
(18:17:57) *(`tyr) lol
(18:18:06) *(@Stormich) more bans
(18:18:14) *(@Stormich) is not a good idea
(18:18:14) *(@Stormich) atm
(18:18:24) *(@Stormich) theres gonna be a riot
(18:18:28) *(EvilArsenal) its 2 weks
(18:18:33) *(`tyr) lol yea
(18:18:36) *(`tyr) still
(18:18:42) *(@Stormich) can you at least make it 1?
(18:18:43) *(@Stormich) lol
(18:18:44) *(`tyr) give a warning or something
(18:18:48) *(EvilArsenal) i gave a warning -.-
(18:18:51) *(EvilArsenal) thats the first step
(18:18:53) *(EvilArsenal) after that its ban
(18:18:54) *(`tyr) Flight is gonna be pissed
(18:18:57) *(@Stormich) lol
(18:19:01) *(`tyr) at FU
(18:19:02) *(Cloud123) altitude is so boring with all those nubs playing now :S
(18:19:03) *(`tyr) not at u
(18:19:03) *(@Stormich) flight is pissed about stack and luke already
(18:19:04) *(EvilArsenal) yea well, half the team doesnt like him anyways
(18:19:17) *(EvilArsenal) well stack and luke
(18:19:19) *(EvilArsenal) cheated
(18:19:27) *(EvilArsenal) its supported by karlam
(18:19:31) *(@Stormich) it is?
(18:19:35) *(EvilArsenal) yea they fixed it
(18:19:38) *(EvilArsenal) so they cant cheat like that anymore
(18:19:45) *(@Stormich) well yeah but they didnt say anything
(18:19:45) *(@Stormich) lol
(18:19:57) *(EvilArsenal) its 2 weeks
(18:20:02) *(EvilArsenal) from apl
(18:20:08) *(EvilArsenal) its not the worst thing, and he's being stupid
(18:20:13) *(@Stormich) idk, i said what i had about stack in the thread, he apologized hes fine by me, its the rest of you :D
(18:20:21) *(EvilArsenal) i mean
(18:20:28) *(@Stormich) wait
(18:20:29) *(EvilArsenal) i really think stack's record should be reset
(18:20:30) *(EvilArsenal) and thats it
(18:20:32) *(EvilArsenal) but
(18:20:35) *(EvilArsenal) imma ban FU for 2 weeks
(18:20:38) *(@Stormich) lol
(18:20:38) *(EvilArsenal) its the rules :|
(18:20:43) *(@Stormich) is it 2 weeks?
(18:20:44) *(EvilArsenal) and he's pissing the **** out of me
(18:20:45) *(@Stormich) or just a ban?
(18:20:48) *(Maimer) I only banned them for 100 days
(18:20:49) *(EvilArsenal) 2 week ban
(18:21:00) *(EvilArsenal) like, he cant play in matches
(18:21:01) *(@Stormich) if its the rules its ok i guess

[no more relevant stuff after this point]

So yeah ... We still don't really know what happened exactly. I doubt evil would be THAT pissed only because of those PMs and that post.
But evil's version doesn't seem very solid either.

So ima remove FU's ban but I'll ban him myself from all APL3 if there is any more drama concerning him.

Is that clear ?

[Y]
03-01-2010, 06:34 PM
Is there any other post that Evil mentioned ? (I didnt receive any PM about this from anyone.)

This thing resulted from an entirely PM-based conversation that I had with evilarsenal. I'll send you a copy of the PMs sent between evilarsenal and I if you want, but it'll probably be useless since evilarsenal is apparently claiming that I'm providing false, one-sided evidence (implying that I've edited the PMs before sending them to people). I truly don't know how to respond to that kind of accusation. I mean, I'd fly over to France with my computer, log into my forums account and show you my PM inbox, but that'd be unconventional.

It's like the perfect accusation. He has more power/credibility/etc. than me, so he can just say that I edited the PMs that I've been sending everyone. There's no way I can truly prove that I haven't edited them, so everyone will have to believe the Proleague admin, right?


edit: I doubt evil would be THAT pissed only because of those PMs and that post.

The thing that confuses me that he IS that pissed only because of those PMs and that post. I haven't talked to him at all in-game nor by any other PM. All he says is that I piss him off and whatnot, but what he doesn't say is why. I'd really like to know because I was really confused when I realized he was actually being serious.

Flight 666
03-01-2010, 06:54 PM
Someone close this Thread please.

"(18:19:04) *(EvilArsenal) yea well, half the team doesnt like him anyways" <<<<<<<<<<<< ROFL
Sometimes people make more staying silent, than talking **** without a reason for it.
What does he know about my team?
The only thing he knows is how my players like Iron Legends when many said "no" to TC

Once again ADMINS>COMMUNITY

Its over.

[Y]
03-01-2010, 06:59 PM
Flight, it's not all admins. Evilarsenal is the only admin involved in this, and because of his admin status, the other admins are more inclined to believe him over me even though I'm the one who has the actual PMs saved. Oh well. I was hoping everyone would ignore this thread because of its potential for drama, but that didn't end up being the case.

Stormich
03-01-2010, 06:59 PM
Don't be a drama queen Flight, we're discussing this like normal people. We just want to know what exactly happened.

[Y]
03-01-2010, 07:03 PM
Don't be a drama queen Flight, we're discussing this like normal people. We just want to know what exactly happened.
Except "exactly what happened" is just ridiculous enough so that everyone thinks something else had happened to merit evil's rage at me. Maybe he just had a bad day and my question pushed him over the edge.

This is exactly the drama I was hoping to avoid. Ugh.

Pieface
03-01-2010, 07:06 PM
The only way to really know if those PMs were real and if Evil had more than that in his PM box would be for people to report them, in which case we'd get an email with the exact contents.

I really don't believe that's necessary however, and I have no reason to believe anyone involved provided false evidence.

I'm going to stay out of this from now on, everyone's been heard and it is clear from IRC and the PMs we have seen that Evil's not backing down. So far we have no evidence to presume that FU did anything besides question specific aspects of the events and protest what he saw as injustice. To tell you the truth, I'm getting a bit sick of all this drama as well.

It's Evil's league, so he calls the shots. He can technically ban anyone from APL for any reason, and edit the rules as he sees fit (as he explicitly stated in IRC). It's his league, but that doesn't mean we have to agree with the way he runs it.

I'm out, in the end it's not that big a deal (only two weeks). I'm still looking forward to the day when we can stop arguing about bans or power abuse and all be friends again.

Ajuk999
03-01-2010, 07:06 PM
Everyone Here needs to Read My Thread on Making better threads. (http://altitudegame.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2814)

nobodyhome
03-01-2010, 07:11 PM
Everyone Here needs to Read My Thread on Making better threads. (http://altitudegame.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2814)

Everyone here is discussing the issue maturely. Quit trying to derail the thread with your backseat moderation.

[Y]
03-01-2010, 07:24 PM
I have no reason to believe anyone involved provided false evidence.

Just wondering, did evil provide any evidence at all? Or did he just start saying that I'm disrespecting him and his league and ask for a ban? Because that's what it looks like from the IRC log.


It's Evil's league, so he calls the shots. He can technically ban anyone from APL for any reason, and edit the rules as he sees fit (as he explicitly stated in IRC). It's his league, but that doesn't mean we have to agree with the way he runs it.

Contrary to popular belief, APL isn't evil's league. It is actually run by him, Kuja, and tyr, which is why he had to bring it up on IRC and get tyr's approval instead of banning me right away. Just something to keep in mind.

DMCM
03-01-2010, 07:40 PM
Can I lock my own thread or can only admins do it?

Anyway, please lock this. The matter is resolved (thanks Tyr) and there's no need for more discussion.

Mt.Vesuvius
03-01-2010, 07:47 PM
hmph, im friends with Y personally and i dont think that FU was trying to b wise or anything. I know when hes being a tard and this time i dont think he meant to be. Couldnt we all just put this behind us and unban FU?:D

[Y]
03-01-2010, 08:34 PM
So ima remove FU's ban

Couldnt we all just put this behind us and unban FU?:D


I really couldn't care less about my two week ban. It's the bull**** reason behind it that really frustrates me. And it's a difficult position for me to argue because evil has his admin status behind him, whereas I used to be in $E. So why should anyone question evil when he says I'm disrespecting him and his league without giving any indication of how?

I didn't ask for all of this drama, tyr. A couple of people wanted to know what had happened, so I compiled all of the PMs and sent them a copy. If only the mods realized the drama potential of this thread right after it was created and deleted it, but the posts have been made and the viewpoints shared. Now all that's left to do is close this thread and let people decide their own opinions. All I can say is that I couldn't understand evil's anger, either. I'm sitting at my computer trying to come up with anything to try to explain his anger, and I just can't.

Massi
03-01-2010, 08:57 PM
First and last thing I'm going to say.
Its two weeks people! Two games. Its not going to destroy IL if we don't have FU (no offense) for two games. I agree there is no point in the ban but oh well, Evil's choice. Two games, get over it.
FU is right (notice its his ban and he cares the least).... It doesn't matter.
Lock this thread!