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nesnl
04-01-2009, 06:51 AM
Take a screenie and post it up.

Triped
04-01-2009, 07:02 AM
Mine definitely aren't as good as yours. Surprised I'm best with Biplane and worst with Loopy. Now I know who to practice with!

Edit: attachment looks ugly for some reason.

Played 1 day 8 hours

Loopy .84
Bomber .89
Explodet .92
Biplane .93
Miranda .87

tmm3k
04-01-2009, 07:26 AM
Damn that's a lot of kills with the Explodet. And I'm frankly surprised that I've managed a K/D ratio above 1 for Loopy and Miranda--I suck with both of them.

Ferret
04-01-2009, 07:33 AM
I am posting in this thread.

Pillars
04-01-2009, 08:27 AM
Bomber = no.

TheCapedAvenger
04-01-2009, 08:30 AM
I only play loopy: K/D = 1.9

nesnl
04-01-2009, 12:30 PM
When I only see you play Loopy I figured you just mostly played Loopy, but that is incredible! Now I really wish I could have seen that one time you played the Explodet.

Blank
04-01-2009, 03:46 PM
too lazy to print screen:

203,491 total exp

loopy- 1563 1003 1.56
bomber- 2424 1491 1.63
explodet- 2321 1371 1.69
biplane- 3760 2146 1.75
miranda- 2857 1593 1.79

Spirtz
04-01-2009, 05:00 PM
lol how do you take a screen shot with mac.... im a mac noob still

Snowsickle
04-01-2009, 05:12 PM
Played: 3 days, 20 hours, 43 minutes

Total experience: 317,874

Loopy: 10725 5911 (1.81)
Bomber: 169 203 (0.83)
Explodet: 3165 1581 (2.00)
Biplane: 2074 1336 (1.55)
Miranda: 3823 2958 (1.29)

Also a note to Lam: the even 2.0 just displays as "2" ingame. For readability and consistency it would be better to display everything to 2 decimal places, even if its an even number.

Blank
04-01-2009, 05:18 PM
what's with all the noob bombers

tmm3k
04-01-2009, 06:29 PM
lol how do you take a screen shot with mac.... im a mac noob still

install windows xp

Ferret
04-01-2009, 06:43 PM
I care too little about ratios :(

I want accuracy stats, those would be more fun.


Loopy: 100%
Bomber: 25-75% grenades, 98-99% tailgun.
Explodet: 0-4% direct missile hits, 95-99% partials. Mines: 0-25%
Biplane: Only plane it would be relatively interesting, and even then the spam of the secondary and firing it for the second after your target is dead would skew it drastically.
Miranda: 100% assuming laser touches count. 75% if charges/warps count as a missed shot.

Tracking, area effect and in general the various large differences between weapons make recording accuracy rather futile to attempt and meaningless to interpret.

ZellSF
04-01-2009, 06:51 PM
Filesize and size restrictions on uploads makes no sense, but I want a png. So here it is.

Accuracy stats would still be fun to have, count area effect as hits and the players will vary a lot in accuracy. Much more fun than ratios at least, which doesn't really encourage helping in team games.

Ferret
04-01-2009, 07:05 PM
Accuracy stats would still be fun to have, count area effect as hits and the players will vary a lot in accuracy. Much more fun than ratios at least, which doesn't really encourage helping in team games.

How does accuracy tracking encourage help in a team game? If you want to suggest assist tracking then that's a fine stat to include in the game, and accuracy for nukes/big bombs would also be an interesting and useful stat, but I don't understand this. Is a kill/death ratio not a function of accuracy, in that if a player misses constantly he will have considerably lower kills than deaths? If I have an 80% accuracy but no kills, did I help my team to win more than if I had a kill/death ratio of 7:1, indicating on a full official server that I was able to, on average, kill the entire opposing team during the course of one of my lives. What if in that 80% accuracy I fired 5 shots and hit with 4? Did I help?

I would also say that it discourages team play because if you're playing for a high accuracy, you are discouraged from firing your weapon at the enemy if you think you will miss or that one of your teammates will kill him first you have a disincentive to engage. If you think killing discourages team play, at least if playing for kills you always have the incentive to attack the enemy.

Vi*
04-01-2009, 07:13 PM
My ratio for bomber is exactly 1. Probably because my instinct still is to fly above an enemy and then hold secondary fire to drop bombs on them, and I'm not even a high enough level to have weirdo non-fun bombs yet. This is what happens when you play random.

ZellSF
04-01-2009, 07:17 PM
How does accuracy tracking encourage help in a team game?
I didn't say it did. It just doesn't discourage it.
I would also say that it discourages team play because if you're playing for a high accuracy, you are discouraged from firing your weapon at the enemy if you think you will miss or that one of your teammates will kill him first you have a disincentive to engage. If you think killing discourages team play, at least if playing for kills you always have the incentive to attack the enemy.
If you're playing for kills only, yes, if you're playing for ratios however, you have an incentive to run away from any fight your team can't handle, you have the incentive to avoid bomb runs or even carrying the bomb because it'll mostly always kill you.

Accuracy is a more fun stat because it will vary a lot and it's not something people are as likely to abuse as ratios (in old Altitude I can't remember anyone fighting for the accuracy award by avoiding taking uncertain shots). It's not a good representation of skill, but no stat is.

Blank
04-01-2009, 07:30 PM
It's hard to argue "fun", but I'd rather see people's ratios than their accuracy. anyone who's willing to "abuse" ratio farming is just as likely to abuse accuracy farming (I'm guessing you mean bot farming, if that's even tracked).

Don't get me wrong, ratio is ultimately pointless and only serves for bragging purposes... but can you even brag about accuracy? Where loopy missiles track, lasers just need a rub, and the slightest bump will count for the AoE of explodets... what's there to brag about :| Even Biplanes get screwed cause I know I'll often use MG's just to right myself/avoid a stall which'll lower my accuracy.

I'm not against showing it, but there's just much more stats I would RATHER see tracked. (Average life span in a given plane, bomb taken/hit success ratio, powerups usage per plane life, health restored in a given plane life/or damage taken per plane to kill, etc).

DiogenesDog
04-01-2009, 07:34 PM
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/1401/altstats.th.jpg (http://img9.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altstats.jpg)

Original account on the left, new account on the right.

Look how much I've improved!

Blank
04-01-2009, 07:35 PM
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/1401/altstats.th.jpg (http://img9.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altstats.jpg)

Original account on the left, new account on the right.

Look how much I've improved!


Flexible wings confirmed as overpowered.

ZellSF
04-01-2009, 07:48 PM
It's hard to argue "fun", but I'd rather see people's ratios than their accuracy. anyone who's willing to "abuse" ratio farming is just as likely to abuse accuracy farming (I'm guessing you mean bot farming, if that's even tracked).

Don't get me wrong, ratio is ultimately pointless and only serves for bragging purposes... but can you even brag about accuracy? Where loopy missiles track, lasers just need a rub, and the slightest bump will count for the AoE of explodets... what's there to brag about :| Even Biplanes get screwed cause I know I'll often use MG's just to right myself/avoid a stall which'll lower my accuracy.

I'm not against showing it, but there's just much more stats I would RATHER see tracked. (Average life span in a given plane, bomb taken/hit success ratio, powerups usage per plane life, health restored in a given plane life/or damage taken per plane to kill, etc).
I would much rather see team based stats myself like bombs caught, bombs dropped, stuff like that. I just think accuracy is a more "fun" stat to have on because imo, it doesn't reward running away from fights as much as ratios do.

TheCapedAvenger
04-01-2009, 07:49 PM
I think the best measure is xp/minute. It includes assists, kills, and bombing the enemy base. This indirectly takes deaths into account, cuz if you're dead, you're not generating xp. It also isn't plane-specific. If you generate more xp/min with miranda than bomber, you are a better player with miranda.

Let's call this 'effectiveness'. My effectiveness is 52.8 xp/min. What's yours?

Ferret
04-01-2009, 07:51 PM
I didn't say it did. It just doesn't discourage it.

If you're playing for kills only, yes, if you're playing for ratios however, you have an incentive to run away from any fight your team can't handle, you have the incentive to avoid bomb runs or even carrying the bomb because it'll mostly always kill you.

Accuracy is a more fun stat because it will vary a lot and it's not something people are as likely to abuse as ratios (in old Altitude I can't remember anyone fighting for the accuracy award by avoiding taking uncertain shots). It's not a good representation of skill, but no stat is.

If kills and deaths and ratios weren't tracked, what incentive would I currently have for staying in a fight that my team can't handle? Would people play with the mentality "well this is going to kill me, but that's okay because it's not a stat." Any time a player is alive, he has a chance to somehow prevent his base from being bombed or help his team land a bomb on the enemy base. People do not avoid dying because it's a bad number. It is intuitive.

I disagree with carrying the bomb "most always kill you" based on the experience of carrying the bomb, hitting and not most always dying. Also, you may not know but the amount of bars on a plane increases the damage done the bomb as well, and ace instincts increases this farther. Thus getting 5 kills and having a bomb drop give me a total of 39 exp is helping the team by increasing our damage compared to if the other team attacks us with a bomb from a plane with no bars. If being a stronger, more durable, faster bomb carrier with a bomb that does more damage is not helping my team, I do not understand what I should be doing instead.

The reason you don't remember anyone playing for accuracy is because it always went to whoever was playing a snoopy at around 30-40%. In this version of the game, planes are larger compared to bullets and it's generally much easier to land a hit. While you think it would be fun and vary, I disagree because I am relatively certain that the numbers I posted earlier would be what you would see for most players after enough time. If you continue to disagree with that then there's no point in continuing because we are clearly irreconcilable.

ZellSF
04-01-2009, 07:59 PM
If kills and deaths and ratios weren't tracked, what incentive would I currently have for staying in a fight that my team can't handle?
None, but you will have no incentive to run away either when your contribution might help turn the battle in your favor.
The reason you don't remember anyone playing for accuracy is because it always went to whoever was playing a snoopy at around 30-40%No it didn't, I got the award with miranda lots of times. Explodets and bombers were mostly screwed though.
If you continue to disagree with that then there's no point in continuing
Then don't.

Snowsickle
04-01-2009, 08:04 PM
I think the best measure is xp/minute. It includes assists, kills, and bombing the enemy base. This indirectly takes deaths into account, cuz if you're dead, you're not generating xp. It also isn't plane-specific. If you generate more xp/min with miranda than bomber, you are a better player with miranda.

Let's call this 'effectiveness'. My effectiveness is 52.8 xp/min. What's yours?

I'd agree with this, but I believe the exp rewards need to be tweaked quite a bit before exp is actually a legitimate gauge of effectiveness. Killing someone when they have 1hp left and are in the middle of nowhere nets me 10 exp, but I haven't really accomplished a whole lot for my team. Backgrounds stats would need to be tracked. Multikills should reward exp in a system like this, since killing an entire team at once is likely to open up a route of attack or disable what could be a push on your base. Single kills, not so much. Bomb disarming (killing a bomb carrier?) would need to be worth more than it is now, since in pure effectiveness terms, saving your base is quite a bit more useful.

Also, 'effectiveness' is going to be skewed hugely by the number of people on at a time. I could probably pull 100exp/minute without a problem in one of those god-awful 30 man servers, but in a nice balanced 4v4 against good players, not so much. There's really not a terribly good way to do it without a more complex formula.

DiogenesDog
04-01-2009, 08:28 PM
It's impossible to make the stats actually be truly meaningful. Or at least no game has pulled it off yet.

But I think they're a lot of fun and the more the merrier, so whee. :)

Blank
04-01-2009, 08:32 PM
It's impossible to make the stats actually be truly meaningful. Or at least no game has pulled it off yet.

But I think they're a lot of fun and the more the merrier, so whee. :)

This.

There's no stat that will track skill. Tracking accuracy isn't any more/less valid a stat to measure a players skill than ratio is. You can farm up ratio and "**** over" your team if you're too ratio-oriented (see: TheCapedAvenger). You can just as easily **** up your team by farming accuracy (not shooting offscreen at big bomb carriers, see: every newbie who doesn't realize shots travel beyond screen range).

TheCapedAvenger
04-01-2009, 08:35 PM
I'd agree with this, but I believe the exp rewards need to be tweaked quite a bit before exp is actually a legitimate gauge of effectiveness. Killing someone when they have 1hp left and are in the middle of nowhere nets me 10 exp, but I haven't really accomplished a whole lot for my team.

If you only go after 1hp enemies, you will spend lots of time waiting, and hence not generate much xp/min, even if you do get 10 xp per kill. Also, the people that did most of the damage would get xp for the assist.

Backgrounds stats would need to be tracked. Multikills should reward exp in a system like this, since killing an entire team at once is likely to open up a route of attack or disable what could be a push on your base.

But multikills are awarded in terms of 'effectiveness': you get more xp in a given amount of time.

Single kills, not so much. Bomb disarming (killing a bomb carrier?) would need to be worth more than it is now, since in pure effectiveness terms, saving your base is quite a bit more useful.

I agree, perhaps an extra 10xp for killing the bomb carrier.

Also, 'effectiveness' is going to be skewed hugely by the number of people on at a time. I could probably pull 100exp/minute without a problem in one of those god-awful 30 man servers, but in a nice balanced 4v4 against good players, not so much. There's really not a terribly good way to do it without a more complex formula.

I guess if you wanted to, you could divide xp by the number of people on your team to account for this. But in terms of an easy-to-calculate number, xp/min is probably the most robust.

TheCapedAvenger
04-01-2009, 08:45 PM
Actually, I think xp/death is a better measure. This way, if you aren't penalized for playing on a near empty server or on a really big map.

My effectiveness: 31.3 xp/death

argonide
04-01-2009, 08:51 PM
I have the best ratio in the plane that I play the least... probably because fatty lends itself to kill whoring.

TheCapedAvenger
04-01-2009, 08:59 PM
Errr... I think both numbers should be used.

My effectiveness: 52.8 xp/min, 31.3 xp/death

Spirtz
04-01-2009, 09:46 PM
PLane ........ kills .......... deaths ............ ratio
loopy ......... 731 .......... 612 ............. 1.19

bomber........ 402 ........... 382 ................1.03

explodet ...... 707............ 620 ................1.14

biplane ....... 7,850............ 6,062 ........... 1.28

miranda........2,503 ............. 1602 ......... 1.54

i agree xp is good but it cost to much or i would

TheCapedAvenger
04-01-2009, 10:34 PM
To summarize, having a high xp/min means that you are at least a good, aggressive player on big games. Having a high xp/death means that you are at least a good conservative player.

Having a low xp/death does not exclude the possibility of being a good aggressive player, and vise versa.

bling
04-01-2009, 11:00 PM
nerd alert

Snowsickle
04-01-2009, 11:03 PM
If you only go after 1hp enemies, you will spend lots of time waiting, and hence not generate much xp/min, even if you do get 10 xp per kill. Also, the people that did most of the damage would get xp for the assist.


People don't necessarily go only after 1hp enemies, but it does happen, and artificially increases an effectiveness rating for something that isn't necessarily effective. Basically I'm saying the current exp system is rather skewed: I could do 99% of the damage to 10 planes in 20 seconds and get less "effectiveness" than someone who happened to get the killing blow on those 10 planes, even though in realistic terms I'm the far more effective player.


But multikills are awarded in terms of 'effectiveness': you get more xp in a given amount of time.


My point here was someone can get 5 kills in 20 seconds or 5 kills at once and then a 15 second lull and be rewarded the same. This isn't necessarily bad, but 5 kills at once is usually more skillful and often helps team objectives far more than kills that are spread out. It's not a huge deal but its something that can be tweaked.

Pillars
04-01-2009, 11:09 PM
To summarize, having a high xp/min means that you are at least a good, aggressive player on big games. Having a high xp/death means that you are at least a good conservative player.

Having a low xp/death does not exclude the possibility of being a good aggressive player, and vise versa.
XP measurements are incredibly weighted towards kills at the moment. In my mind, having a high xp/min ratio for a particular plane means you're [probably] skilled at dog-fighting with said plane. All good players will have high xp/min ratios, but not all players with high xp/min ratios are good.

As others have mentioned, statistical measurements can be useful / interesting to look at, but it's tough to quantify some of the most important attributes of a good, well-rounded player. By supporting a bombing run you're using the HP of your plane as a resource for your team's overall goals...in the statistics screens this is simply measured as a 'death'. Likewise for catching a bomb, or a failed bombing run of your own. Picking off the weakest players on the other team in the corner of the map nets you some kills, but you're doing this at the expense of helping your team control the important sections of the map. Some kills are simply worth more than others [killing the other team's best player, their bomb carrier, or the last defender between your team's bomb carrier and the enemy base.] This doesn't even get into stuff like drawing fire, suppressing fire, soaking damage, intelligent use of power-ups, general situational awareness, etc. Certainly many of these factors help to improve one's kill/death ratio, or one's xp/min ratio, but some of them actually decrease one's ratios.

TheCapedAvenger
04-01-2009, 11:38 PM
People don't necessarily go only after 1hp enemies, but it does happen, and artificially increases an effectiveness rating for something that isn't necessarily effective. Basically I'm saying the current exp system is rather skewed: I could do 99% of the damage to 10 planes in 20 seconds and get less "effectiveness" than someone who happened to get the killing blow on those 10 planes, even though in realistic terms I'm the far more effective player.

Most likely, those 10 kills will be spread out among your teammates, while you get the assists for all of them. So you will probably get the most XP from that encounter.

I do think the XP system right now is fine in terms of XP for assists. If you do 99% of the damage to 10 planes, those 10 planes are still alive and shooting at your team. It's better to kill a few planes than damage a lot.

My point here was someone can get 5 kills in 20 seconds or 5 kills at once and then a 15 second lull and be rewarded the same. This isn't necessarily bad, but 5 kills at once is usually more skillful and often helps team objectives far more than kills that are spread out. It's not a huge deal but its something that can be tweaked.

IMHO, those two scenarios should be rewarded equally. Getting 5 kills at once is probably due to luck (dropping the bomb, opponents having low health, etc), and not necessarily extra skillful.

TheCapedAvenger
04-01-2009, 11:43 PM
As others have mentioned, statistical measurements can be useful / interesting to look at, but it's tough to quantify some of the most important attributes of a good, well-rounded player. By supporting a bombing run you're using the HP of your plane as a resource for your team's overall goals...in the statistics screens this is simply measured as a 'death'. Likewise for catching a bomb, or a failed bombing run of your own. Picking off the weakest players on the other team in the corner of the map nets you some kills, but you're doing this at the expense of helping your team control the important sections of the map. Some kills are simply worth more than others [killing the other team's best player, their bomb carrier, or the last defender between your team's bomb carrier and the enemy base.] This doesn't even get into stuff like drawing fire, suppressing fire, soaking damage, intelligent use of power-ups, general situational awareness, etc. Certainly many of these factors help to improve one's kill/death ratio, or one's xp/min ratio, but some of them actually decrease one's ratios.

Your effectiveness as a team player can simply be measured by the percentage of team games that you win. Of course, you could bias this by always choosing the better team, but if there is a proper team balancing system in place, I think this will be a decent measure. On average, if you win most team games, then that means your presence helps your team.

So, I say effectiveness is measured by 3 parameters: xp/min, xp/death, % team games won.

Ajplagge
04-02-2009, 12:23 AM
neato

Biplane needs halp!
bob

Blank
04-02-2009, 12:44 AM
Your effectiveness as a team player can simply be measured by the percentage of team games that you win. Of course, you could bias this by always choosing the better team, but if there is a proper team balancing system in place, I think this will be a decent measure. On average, if you win most team games, then that means your presence helps your team.

So, I say effectiveness is measured by 3 parameters: xp/min, xp/death, % team games won.

Are you a robot and/or asian? Cause you sure are hung up on math/formulas.

TheCapedAvenger
04-02-2009, 01:06 AM
Are you a robot and/or asian? Cause you sure are hung up on math/formulas.

I don't think dividing two numbers is very complicated :cool:

I think we can all agree that kill/death and accuracy aren't very good measures of how good a player is. If you want to reduce it down to a few numbers, I'd go with xp/min, xp/kill, %win.

Spirtz
04-02-2009, 01:15 AM
i agree with cape.......... that is all

Kildayen
04-02-2009, 01:19 AM
2 days, 9 hours, 29 minutes

187,587 experience

6,928 3,548 1.95 loopy
261 165 1.58 bomber
426 253 1.68 explodet
4,346 2,323 1.87 biplane
231 174 1.33 miranda

nesnl
04-02-2009, 01:19 AM
Based on my degree in advanced theoretical statistical video game analysis and application I think it is safe to say at this point Altitude boils down to this simple relationship:

Pillars > Blank > Ferret > Snowsickle

which, if my calculations are correct, simplifies down to:

Starcraft 2 >>> All !!!!

Kildayen
04-02-2009, 01:21 AM
Any ranking that does not factor in my glory is fatally flawed.

nesnl
04-02-2009, 01:36 AM
Any ranking that does not factor in my glory is fatally flawed.

I was apparently writing my post while you were writing yours. But if you need me to include you, here you go:

Pillars > Kildayen

Blank
04-02-2009, 01:47 AM
I don't think dividing two numbers is very complicated :cool:

I think we can all agree that kill/death and accuracy aren't very good measures of how good a player is. If you want to reduce it down to a few numbers, I'd go with xp/min, xp/kill, %win.

I don't recall saying anything about it being complicated. None of the options you mentioned are a good way to define how good a player is.

For example: you suck, but you probably have a decent xp/min xp/kill rate.


(EDIT) Pillars cheats.
(EDIT #2) Needs more >>>> after my name to show the giant skill gap between me and pillars and everyone else. /ego

Pillars
04-02-2009, 12:51 PM
Based on my degree in advanced theoretical statistical video game analysis and application I think it is safe to say at this point Altitude boils down to this simple relationship:

Pillars > Blank > Ferret > Snowsickle

which, if my calculations are correct, simplifies down to:

Starcraft 2 >>> All !!!!
Blank and Ferret are better dog-fighters than I am. Snowsickle and Kilyaden might be as well.

I haven't hit my skill ceiling yet, though. [Not that I believe any of they have either.]

EDIT: By dog-fighters I literally mean their ability to battle dogs and other dog-like creatures. My statements shouldn't be taken to refer to any Altitude specific skills.

DiogenesDog
04-02-2009, 12:58 PM
So you're specifically talking about their ability to fight me, then? Because I don't see anyone else here with a dog name.

Btw, best part of this thread: Cape really IS asian.

Triped
04-02-2009, 03:02 PM
As others have mentioned, statistical measurements can be useful / interesting to look at, but it's tough to quantify some of the most important attributes of a good, well-rounded player. By supporting a bombing run you're using the HP of your plane as a resource for your team's overall goals...in the statistics screens this is simply measured as a 'death'. Likewise for catching a bomb, or a failed bombing run of your own. Picking off the weakest players on the other team in the corner of the map nets you some kills, but you're doing this at the expense of helping your team control the important sections of the map. Some kills are simply worth more than others [killing the other team's best player, their bomb carrier, or the last defender between your team's bomb carrier and the enemy base.] This doesn't even get into stuff like drawing fire, suppressing fire, soaking damage, intelligent use of power-ups, general situational awareness, etc. Certainly many of these factors help to improve one's kill/death ratio, or one's xp/min ratio, but some of them actually decrease one's ratios.

Agreed. I have the worst K/D in this thread, but my team wins way more than 50% of TBD. Always chase down the bomb, always support the bomb, or run with it, always dedicate yourself to killing turrets in big enough games. Not very rewarding activities statistically.

So I guess I agree because it's the only way I can look good. :D

I'm really impressed by players who can win FFAs with a low death count, though. I win some of them, but even when I win I usually have almost as many deaths as people who lost.

Blank
04-02-2009, 03:21 PM
So you're specifically talking about their ability to fight me, then? Because I don't see anyone else here with a dog name.

Btw, best part of this thread: Cape really IS asian.

Dio is already 1:0 versus Nh'ers in fights but I think I can take him ;0 I know his fighting strategy (go for the balls).

porpus
04-02-2009, 04:14 PM
So you're specifically talking about their ability to fight me, then? Because I don't see anyone else here with a dog name.

Btw, best part of this thread: Cape really IS asian.

Haha that's classic. But if you're gonna use any stats cape's are as good as you'll find.

TheCapedAvenger
04-02-2009, 11:35 PM
For example: you suck, but you probably have a decent xp/min xp/kill rate.

That's the point of including %win as one of the numbers. If kill whoring really is bad for the team, then %win should be less than 50%.

Pillars
04-02-2009, 11:46 PM
That's the point of including %win as one of the numbers.
I'd like to see this stat as well.
If kill whoring really is bad for the team, then %win should be less than 50%.
This certainly isn't true. Dog-fighting is easily the most important skill a player can have in almost any game mode, and even a player selfishly pursuing his own kill-whoring goals, if skilled enough, can potentially do more to help his team [indirectly] than an unskilled but team-oriented player.

I'd expect to see CapedAvenger's "team win %" higher than 50%, but lower than other players who are at least equally skilled at dog-fighting and are more skilled than him in other areas.

Spirtz
04-03-2009, 12:22 AM
i feel there should be more bomb stats involved. i personally want to see how many bombs defused, caught, and hit. right now the stats only show k/d. DF is important at the best part but, most of the time we're playing tbd. i like the win idea but also want to see how many bombs i've smashed into the enemy base.

protest boy
04-03-2009, 12:54 AM
I find bomber boring to play.

I expected my ratios to be higher but I suspect it's because I picked up the game as a newbie at the same time stats started being tracked.

I agree that these numbers for the most part do not equate to player skill. (See Pillars' list of traits not expressed in numbers)

I also want to see % tbd games won. Would probably have to qualify a game to count, e.g. a game in which the player was present for more than 75% of it.

I also think the XP system needs to be reworked a little bit. In TBD's it's skewed too heavily towards kills, not enough towards base damage. Also, the amount given for assists/kills should get an adjustment based on damage done.

Pillars
04-03-2009, 02:29 AM
i feel there should be more bomb stats involved. i personally want to see how many bombs defused, caught, and hit. right now the stats only show k/d. DF is important at the best part but, most of the time we're playing tbd. i like the win idea but also want to see how many bombs i've smashed into the enemy base.
I'm sure we'll eventually see more stats added to the page, this is just a first pass. I'd also like to see more bomb-related stats.

I'd also like to see an experience value attached to bomb catching and an increase in the experience value attached to bomb defusal and base damage.

Blank
04-03-2009, 03:08 AM
I'm sure we'll eventually see more stats added to the page, this is just a first pass. I'd also like to see more bomb-related stats.

I'd also like to see an experience value attached to bomb catching and an increase in the experience value attached to bomb defusal and base damage.

I think the problem with bomb catching EXP is there's no way to distinguish between a catch and someone just kamikazing someone with the big bomb (not to mention you die... I mean, I guess it'll kinda help people level up but it's not like you'll normally get bars out of it). Plus you'd completely miss out on people who wall/shield a bomb, which is just as good as catching except you live.

I'm pretty okay with the amount of EXP for bomb defusal/base damage.

Pillars
04-03-2009, 03:29 AM
I think the problem with bomb catching EXP is there's no way to distinguish between a catch and someone just kamikazing someone with the big bomb (not to mention you die... I mean, I guess it'll kinda help people level up but it's not like you'll normally get bars out of it). Plus you'd completely miss out on people who wall/shield a bomb, which is just as good as catching except you live.
Any stat is going to have problems. You could argue that simply applying pressure to a bomb carrier such that he feel he's better off dropping it in your face than continuing to make his bombing run means you've had a positive impact for your team. There are other weird cases like four people 'catching' the bomb at once, or catching a randomly lobbed bomb in the face, but I still think bomb-catching is an important enough stat to merit an XP reward. It might be possible to tie in shield and wall blocking as well. Maybe this gets too complicated in the end, but bomb defense is a really important part of TBD and it would be nice to represent it in terms of XP if possible.

I'm pretty okay with the amount of EXP for bomb defusal/base damage.
The XP values might be fine for smaller [3v3] games, but once you get into 6v6 or 7v7 the XP values for base damage in particular seem pretty small relative to kill XP. Killing a three-bar opponent nets 30XP, dealing a direct base hit nets the same...the latter action feels far more valuable to me than the former.

porpus
04-03-2009, 04:10 AM
Wow some of you guys play a hell of a lot.

And lam, you got a bit a bit of a problem with the s's on my name there.

Snowsickle
04-03-2009, 04:21 AM
I think the problem with bomb catching EXP is there's no way to distinguish between a catch and someone just kamikazing someone with the big bomb (not to mention you die... I mean, I guess it'll kinda help people level up but it's not like you'll normally get bars out of it). Plus you'd completely miss out on people who wall/shield a bomb, which is just as good as catching except you live.

I'm pretty okay with the amount of EXP for bomb defusal/base damage.

Almost all of these could be tracked within a certain radius of the base. Sure, you might deflect a bomb a mile up in the air on hills that would've otherwise hit your base, but it should work for a majority of cases.

Also, it may be possible to just predict whether a bomb is a hit or miss at the time of release, but I don't know how much extra coding that would require from Lam.

It could be tracked, but I guess it's a question of whether or not it's worth it at this point. Not a bad idea though.

Blank
04-03-2009, 05:17 AM
Any stat is going to have problems. You could argue that simply applying pressure to a bomb carrier such that he feel he's better off dropping it in your face than continuing to make his bombing run means you've had a positive impact for your team. There are other weird cases like four people 'catching' the bomb at once, or catching a randomly lobbed bomb in the face, but I still think bomb-catching is an important enough stat to merit an XP reward. It might be possible to tie in shield and wall blocking as well. Maybe this gets too complicated in the end, but bomb defense is a really important part of TBD and it would be nice to represent it in terms of XP if possible.

I'm not AGAINST the idea, I just don't see the appeal of it. Even if it is something players should do, you're basically rewarding death. If anything was going to see an XP reward, I'd rather see a bonus to killing a bomb carrier (defusing already gives a little something).

^ is what I was about to post, but then I started thinking about it. How many idiots go after turrets because they see little numbers flash when they hit it? It might actually encourage people to "catch" big bombs more if they see that's the case. So meh, maybe it's a better idea than I first thought :P

On that note, I don't think turrets should give XP ^_^

The XP values might be fine for smaller [3v3] games, but once you get into 6v6 or 7v7 the XP values for base damage in particular seem pretty small relative to kill XP. Killing a three-bar opponent nets 30XP, dealing a direct base hit nets the same...the latter action feels far more valuable to me than the former.

I think a better way to cover this is simply impliment challenges that give +EXP for successful bomb defusing/base hitting. This way you don't get too many "free" bars doing it, but you still get some EXP for leveling purposes/encouragement.

Triped
04-03-2009, 02:47 PM
^ is what I was about to post, but then I started thinking about it. How many idiots go after turrets because they see little numbers flash when they hit it? It might actually encourage people to "catch" big bombs more if they see that's the case. So meh, maybe it's a better idea than I first thought :P

On that note, I don't think turrets should give XP ^_^

Uh, there's a real advantage to teams that can take out turrets efficiently. It's like permanently reducing the size of the enemy team and usually means 1-2 extra bomb attempts along a better route.

Blank
04-03-2009, 03:48 PM
Uh, there's a real advantage to teams that can take out turrets efficiently. It's like permanently reducing the size of the enemy team and usually means 1-2 extra bomb attempts along a better route.

I would maybe agree with you if people knew how to intelligently take out turrets. Instead, you have idiots who are dying 10-20 times to kill ONE turret, then gloriously proclaim "TURRET DOWN" in team chat as if they've accomplished something (meanwhile, your base is 1-hit away from destruction and you haven't even hit the enemy base yet).

Not to mention there are only a handful of turrets on current maps that warrant going out of your way to destroy. Seeing people try to kill turrets on LOST CITY is just painful to watch.

The Core and Grotto have that 1 turret near middle that's worth taking out, and it's usually dead for both sides within the first minute (ironically, it's usually the first target for the big bomb). I could maybe see taking out the lower turrets in middleground, but honestly, hitting up that low passage is almost always a bad idea. Forest, Cave, Lost City, Hills all have turrets that make the smallest overall impact on the game.

Triped
04-03-2009, 04:36 PM
I would maybe agree with you if people knew how to intelligently take out turrets. Instead, you have idiots who are dying 10-20 times to kill ONE turret, then gloriously proclaim "TURRET DOWN" in team chat as if they've accomplished something (meanwhile, your base is 1-hit away from destruction and you haven't even hit the enemy base yet).

Not to mention there are only a handful of turrets on current maps that warrant going out of your way to destroy. Seeing people try to kill turrets on LOST CITY is just painful to watch.

The Core and Grotto have that 1 turret near middle that's worth taking out, and it's usually dead for both sides within the first minute (ironically, it's usually the first target for the big bomb). I could maybe see taking out the lower turrets in middleground, but honestly, hitting up that low passage is almost always a bad idea. Forest, Cave, Lost City, Hills all have turrets that make the smallest overall impact on the game.

Well yeah, that's all true when few players are in the game, and newbies using Loopy to kill turrets drives me crazy. The low turret in middleground's definitely worth killing with grenadier and shield powerup or explodet and repair, circling. Unless I have the map mixed up.

skywalker
04-05-2009, 05:41 PM
I've included comments within the picture itself.

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n207/alexzhu1/Game.jpg

Kildayen
04-05-2009, 08:28 PM
a player selfishly pursuing his own kill-whoring goals, if skilled enough, can potentially do more to help his team [indirectly] than an unskilled but team-oriented player.

I like to think of this as "The Kildayen method".

spits
04-07-2009, 09:29 AM
this is after 3 days

JamesTechno
04-08-2009, 01:13 AM
Im not posting mine.
It changes too often for me to be content with it.

I'll just say my Biplane is over 1.5 Ratio.

as red as black
07-06-2009, 04:06 AM
Take a screenie and post it up.

I was just looking through the forums (I got nothing better to do) and found this.....how times have changed hahahaha.

look at maimer's old xp

Carbon
07-06-2009, 04:14 AM
Here are my stats. I play better when I'm high (I'm always high)

http://i41.tinypic.com/20rr9zn.png

Jayfourke
07-30-2009, 08:05 PM
OK, so it's a necrobump, but here are my stats. Yay 100 hours!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3480/3773020676_5c79d6ee52.jpg

Yes, I die a lot. I try to bomb the base, and when I'm dogfighting I'm willing to die so long as the other guy goes with me.

eth
07-31-2009, 03:43 AM
Thats weird.. I have questionmarks instead of commas Oo. O well.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/Merakhan/stats.jpg

Smushface
07-31-2009, 04:33 AM
270 hours played? FLB really is the team with the most play time.

as red as black
07-31-2009, 04:46 AM
270 hours played? FLB really is the team with the most play time.

kuja and game are both over 1 mil too (though game may have passed 2 mil by now haha)

nesnl
07-31-2009, 05:11 AM
Thats weird.. I have questionmarks instead of commas Oo. O well.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/Merakhan/stats.jpg

You not only have question marks instead of commas, but you have commas instead of periods...

Golden Bough
07-31-2009, 06:38 AM
http://altitudegame.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=8&pictureid=38

Pretty typical IMHO.

tyr
07-31-2009, 12:23 PM
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/3106/tyrstats3107.jpg

See, don't need to have 2.5M xp and 10k xpph to be better than those flb guys.

DMCM
07-31-2009, 04:36 PM
Time Played
239,3 hours

Total Experience
719.866

Loopy Stats (it's the only plane I use)

31.471 - 23.219

Ratio: 1.36



My ratio keeps increasing though. Last time I checked it was 1.29 and it was not long ago

as red as black
07-31-2009, 06:26 PM
Time Played
239,3 hours

Total Experience
719.866

Loopy Stats (it's the only plane I use)

31.471 - 23.219

Ratio: 1.36



My ratio keeps increasing though. Last time I checked it was 1.29 and it was not long ago

someone's from europe...why do you guys switch around commas and periods?????

DryBone
08-01-2009, 07:43 AM
Hm.... i guess my status is kinda bad???

Triped
08-01-2009, 07:50 AM
someone's from europe...why do you guys switch around commas and periods?????

During the 1600's there were many competing notations for decimals, of
which the comma and period were the two winners. Here's what Cajori,
in A History of Mathematical Notations, says about one point in the
conflict (p. 328):

"In the eighteenth century, trials of strength between the comma
and the dot as the separatrix were complicated by the fact that
Leibniz had proposed the dot as the symbol of multiplication ....
As a symbol for multiplication the dot was seldom used in England
during the eighteenth century, Oughtred's X being generally
preferred. For this reason, the dot as a separatrix enjoyed an
advantage in England during the eighteenth century which it did
not enjoy on the continent."

In the end, the comma won on the continent of Europe; the dot was used
in England, though commonly raised rather than on the line (with the
low dot used for multiplication). In America the usage varied at
first, but has settled down to the low dot for the decimal separator,
and a raised dot for multiplication.

as red as black
08-01-2009, 08:07 AM
During the 1600's there were many competing notations for decimals, of
which the comma and period were the two winners. Here's what Cajori,
in A History of Mathematical Notations, says about one point in the
conflict (p. 328):

"In the eighteenth century, trials of strength between the comma
and the dot as the separatrix were complicated by the fact that
Leibniz had proposed the dot as the symbol of multiplication ....
As a symbol for multiplication the dot was seldom used in England
during the eighteenth century, Oughtred's X being generally
preferred. For this reason, the dot as a separatrix enjoyed an
advantage in England during the eighteenth century which it did
not enjoy on the continent."

In the end, the comma won on the continent of Europe; the dot was used
in England, though commonly raised rather than on the line (with the
low dot used for multiplication). In America the usage varied at
first, but has settled down to the low dot for the decimal separator,
and a raised dot for multiplication.

it all makes sense now

hurripilot
08-03-2009, 10:46 PM
Wowzers Triped, nice showing off there :p

Here's mine:
Loopy: 553 kills/760 deaths - .73

Bomber: 152 kills/224 deaths - .68

Explodet: 43 kills/89 deaths - .48

Biplane: 26,789 kills/27,107 deaths - .99

Miranda: 507 kills/669 deaths - .76

Total Xp: 646,696

Hours Logged: 246.6

yoshi
08-03-2009, 10:49 PM
Wowzers, Triped, nice showing off there :p

Here's mine:


Upload to a site first, then insert the image url (Right click>Copy Image Location) and paste it in between the img tags.

hurripilot
08-04-2009, 12:10 AM
Thanks yoshi, I just decided to go the lazy way :p

DubyaCapumWolfeGee
08-04-2009, 03:13 AM
Here is me.

hurripilot
08-04-2009, 03:26 AM
Lawl, I love how your worst ratio is my best :p

DubyaCapumWolfeGee
08-04-2009, 03:48 AM
Im not a good fatty XD i like being... quick and nimble lawl

wolf'j'max
08-05-2009, 10:44 AM
neato

Biplane needs halp!
bob
we cant really read ur stats there ajplagge

amatoer
08-05-2009, 01:24 PM
mine. basicly loopy only, during the beta some bomber too

killimanjaro
09-02-2009, 01:31 PM
my man's stats DW|KoMANdoR ;)