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as red as black
05-09-2010, 11:02 PM
First off, I do not run the tourneys. The organizers can do watever the hell they want...it's their ****... I am merely an annoyed player making a suggestion

There needs to be a ping limit for tourneys.

It's annoying as hell trying to dodge someone with 250 ping.

BUT...the most annoying thing is killing them. Shooting them is unaffected by ping, i believe, but their death is affected. When you kill someone with 250 ms ping, that's 250 ms they get to still shoot after they technically should be dead. That's more than enough time to get in some nades, an acid bomb, etc.

Now when you have like 2 people with +200 ping and 2 others in the 100s on a team...over the course of a game all those extra shots add up and it's just ****ing annoying in general.

So.....i think there should be team ping limits. Say...a team's total ping shouldn't exceed 600. That seems pretty reasonable. Even if you have someone (who shall go un-named) from asia who's name is close to a news network's name who has annoying ass ping that's like 250.....that still leaves 350 ping for 4 other players to split which is no problem....well unless those other players have like +100 ping too...then that's just ridiculous.

Evan20000
05-09-2010, 11:08 PM
Biplanes are particularly annoying to fight when they have 200+ ping. You're behind them and they're seemingly shooting at nothing but your health is dropping fast.

tyr
05-09-2010, 11:21 PM
You're free to create your own north-American league.
There won't be lag then.

classicallad
05-09-2010, 11:36 PM
To A.R.A.B & Sins,

I guess you were refering to myself, CCN and step in your post.

First off, if the pings' of some KLF caused a problem for any of you guys i apologise man, and if you felt so strongly that you felt it impeded on your chances to win the game, also i apologise..sorry ='(

I can tell you though many times during tonights match myself and CCN cursed at our own lag. CCN could have finished the game on Cave i was just behind him, our bomb went loose, CCN turbo'd right through it twice, you guys won that map if i remember.

Usually when i play i'd say 30% of my deaths are from crashes due to my own lag.

This doesn't however offer absolution, im not claiming that any of us didn't lag a little. A team member has said to me though on many occasions something like, "class that guy has like 100 ping and he lags like f~@k, you dont lag much". its fairly stable.

They were however some fu#@ing tough ass games out there tonight,
honestly when i finally rose from my intrusivly uncomfortable chair after 2 1/2 hours of fff's and ddd's and a couple o' esses chucked in, bro my legs turned to jelly, my armpits stunk like a cess pit on a bad day and my stomach shrunk to the size of a peanut!

I hope i never have to do that again ;)

Pieface
05-10-2010, 12:42 AM
A ping limit of 400 sounds reasonable (I think that was the plan anyway as soon as Evil/Storm can contact phong), cause no matter where you live you really shouldn't have trouble staying under that. The only real amendment I think should be added to the rules should be to limit playing and especially bombing while your ping is spiking, since a stable lag isn't that hard to deal with TBH.

mled
05-10-2010, 01:11 AM
there will always be ping, stop wanting to live in a dream world where no ping exists

Ajuk999
05-10-2010, 01:12 AM
Some of the best players have a high ping...

Evan20000
05-10-2010, 02:59 AM
To A.R.A.B & Sins,

I guess you were refering to myself, CCN and step in your post.

First off, if the pings' of some KLF caused a problem for any of you guys i apologise man, and if you felt so strongly that you felt it impeded on your chances to win the game, also i apologise..sorry ='(

I can tell you though many times during tonights match myself and CCN cursed at our own lag. CCN could have finished the game on Cave i was just behind him, our bomb went loose, CCN turbo'd right through it twice, you guys won that map if i remember.

Usually when i play i'd say 30% of my deaths are from crashes due to my own lag.

This doesn't however offer absolution, im not claiming that any of us didn't lag a little. A team member has said to me though on many occasions something like, "class that guy has like 100 ping and he lags like f~@k, you dont lag much". its fairly stable.

They were however some fu#@ing tough ass games out there tonight,
honestly when i finally rose from my intrusivly uncomfortable chair after 2 1/2 hours of fff's and ddd's and a couple o' esses chucked in, bro my legs turned to jelly, my armpits stunk like a cess pit on a bad day and my stomach shrunk to the size of a peanut!

I hope i never have to do that again ;)

Actually, while it was annoying, I wasn't particularly referring to you guys. (I believe Step was using bip, and he was around 120) The only lag that caused me grief was CCN because of the one lag bomb and the periodic acid from the grave. Overall, the match felt fairly clean compared to a few other league games this season.

CCN
05-10-2010, 03:30 AM
Actually, while it was annoying, I wasn't particularly referring to you guys. (I believe Step was using bip, and he was around 120) The only lag that caused me grief was CCN because of the one lag bomb and the periodic acid from the grave. Overall, the match felt fairly clean compared to a few other league games this season.

Did I lag bomb a base?
Mah bad tried to avoid that, could you point out which one so I know what to advoid.
also for some reason recently my ping jumped 30-40 on Phong's servers so trying to adjust a bit with timings.

Evan20000
05-10-2010, 03:32 AM
It only happened once on mayhem during game two. It isn't that big of a deal now, though.

CCN
05-10-2010, 03:39 AM
Game 2 of mayhem was the one that was not recorded, 10 second summary is good enough >_>

Evan20000
05-10-2010, 03:41 AM
I remember ARAB riding your bomb on the way down. Wish I could be more specific, outside of the lag, it was rather unremarkable. =\

D4rt
05-10-2010, 04:09 AM
A ping limit of 400 sounds reasonable (I think that was the plan anyway as soon as Evil/Storm can contact phong), cause no matter where you live you really shouldn't have trouble staying under that. The only real amendment I think should be added to the rules should be to limit playing and especially bombing while your ping is spiking, since a stable lag isn't that hard to deal with TBH.


Almost every EU player has at least 130-150 ping in even quality US servers. 400 ping limit would never work with a EU team.

mikesol
05-10-2010, 04:34 AM
Almost every EU player has at least 130-150 ping in even quality US servers. 400 ping limit would never work with a EU team.

He means a 400 ping limit per player - not as the total team.

D4rt
05-10-2010, 08:03 AM
He means a 400 ping limit per player - not as the total team.

Ah, mb. Thought this had something to do with the '600 ping limit to whole team' that ARAB suggested. :o

Anyways, back to the subject: ping 400 for a single person is way to much. I remember dueling a laser randa with ~400 ping. Imho being blasted by a laser through an obstacle is not the funniest thing I've experienced.

This is why I think it's important that some lag regarding rules are added to the upcoming leagues (more than 250 starts to affect the game seriously).

CCN
05-10-2010, 08:05 AM
Ah, mb. Thought this had something to do with the '600 ping limit to whole team' that ARAB suggested. :o

Anyways, back to the subject: ping 400 for a single person is way to much. I remember dueling a laser randa with ~400 ping. Imho being blasted by a laser through an obstacle is not the funniest thing I've experienced.

This is why I think it's important that some lag regarding rules are added to the upcoming leagues (more than 250 starts to affect the game seriously).

I say my ping, 250 and Classes Ping (whatever) should be the limit

as red as black
05-10-2010, 01:40 PM
600 total ping would allow high-pingers to play in rotation...it wouldn't let more then 1 or 2 play at once but it wouldn't be too exclusive to euro players as long as a team had sufficient non-pingy depth on their roster.

having 1 lagger is acceptable.....but when 4/5ths of a team is in orange and red ping....a game where timing is crucial becomes very annoying and frustrating.

Tosconi
05-10-2010, 01:55 PM
so you suggest, that 5 players should have 100 ping and 1 so-called high pinger would have 200...

As Tyr said - make a North American league and you'll never have a ping problem. An average european (i'm not talking about Asia or Australia) ping is about 150, which makes a total ping at least 750. What you are proposing can not ever happen in any non-american team.

1000 overall ping looks much more realistic.

wolf'j'max
05-10-2010, 02:12 PM
my ping is stable between 118-120
so really, europeans with a good internet con have good pings, its just the problem that not every country has good connections.
so it can't always be the fault of the higher pingers.

classicallad
05-10-2010, 02:45 PM
just for the record though, the 4 teams signed up to the Pwned tourney so far all prefer GMT/GMT+1 times which indicates that there is a strong European competitive scene.

Im not however a excludist and in real terms the nationality proportion of the current competitive scene is fairly evenly split between Euro/US.

Im sure by securing another server or 2 or better still making better use of the ones we have, games with lag will be more and more a thing of the past.

Also im moving down the south of the island soon and will have a strong connection so on a personal note mine will be a lot better say 80-100 stroke.

Mandrad
05-10-2010, 03:14 PM
I think more than 250 sucks unless its not jumpy - which most of the times doesnt happens.

In ## last APL match, opponents had something like 11 or 12 players at the server, and they played with reds... and very hard reds... IMO theres no need for this happen so, this should be ruled too.

Evan20000
05-10-2010, 03:25 PM
Most Euro/Aussie/Asian players aren't that bad, it's the people with 300+ Ping that are annoying. Euros usually weigh in about 130-170, Aussies and Asians at about 200-250. While these can lead to many firefights lost that you should have won, it usually isn't TOO gamebreaking. The people with 400+ Pings that fire invisible bullets are the ones that everyone gets riled up about methinks.

classicallad
05-10-2010, 04:09 PM
agreed. The few exceptions that are as far away from chicago as possible and/or have multiple programs running on a not so good comp and/or bad internet are the real thorns in the side metinks.

andy
05-10-2010, 04:39 PM
there could be some sort of home/away system in which you play a game on an euro server and a game on an US server.. but we need the euro servers.

Stormich
05-10-2010, 04:56 PM
The main problem is that the scene is so small, banning people from like Russia/Asia/Australia would result with the death of APL. I do think 200 max is as optimal as it gets but it's just not doable.

CCN
05-10-2010, 05:01 PM
there could be some sort of home/away system in which you play a game on an euro server and a game on an US server.. but we need the euro servers.

I think it was Gemi who has been kind enough to host a server or two in Europe for Skyleague, maybe he would be willing to throw on some tbd maps and you can use those as well.

gemigemi
05-10-2010, 06:27 PM
I think it was Gemi who has been kind enough to host a server or two in Europe for Skyleague, maybe he would be willing to throw on some tbd maps and you can use those as well.
If you want a permanent or long lasting server then I could probably dedicate one server for the needs of all these leagues and tournaments, and possibly more for shorter events when required. After SkyLeague is over I'm returning at least one of those two servers to other use. (yes, I'm limited by how many ports I have opened, as it's a VPS that I'm borroughing from a friend and can't control directly)

I'll just need to know which maps to have in there and which settings you want me to have on this particular server.

as red as black
05-12-2010, 02:15 AM
i dont think there's enough of a european player base where you'd have to worry about an all euro team being excluded from tourneys with a 600 team ping cap limit...for the time being at least.

I don't know of any team that is primarily european/ watever players or a team that doesn't have the depth to field enough good pingers to stay under a 600 team ping limit. You can play bad pingers in rotation so they all get to play, just not all at once.

Tosconi
05-14-2010, 09:04 AM
ARAB - DW, ##, KLF, IL, partly ACE - all european majorities. If you look at the ladder stats - at least half of the players are non-americans.

CCN
05-14-2010, 10:18 AM
i dont think there's enough of a european player base where you'd have to worry about an all euro team being excluded from tourneys with a 600 team ping cap limit...for the time being at least.

I don't know of any team that is primarily european/ watever players or a team that doesn't have the depth to field enough good pingers to stay under a 600 team ping limit. You can play bad pingers in rotation so they all get to play, just not all at once.

How long you not paid attention thar arab? Long enough to be wrong.
You seem very upset about lag, leading to rash suggestions and assumptions.
Suggestion: Chill

[Y]
05-14-2010, 12:09 PM
ARAB - DW, ##, KLF, IL, partly ACE - all european majorities. If you look at the ladder stats - at least half of the players are non-americans.

wat.

most of us are in EST time wat u talking about?

gammelonkel
05-14-2010, 12:52 PM
I do acknowledge that dogfighting a 400+ pinger is annyoing as hell.

But i thought everyone agreed that lagging was worst for the lagger, except when bombing?

Also, with european ping around 140-150, a five player team would exceed a 600 limit, even without spiking...

DMCM
05-14-2010, 12:55 PM
IL is not mostly european


As far as I know the only europeans are me and Elijah (maybe Veritas too?)

Flight is Brazilian and the rest are all american I think.

Tosconi
05-14-2010, 02:13 PM
My fault - IL not european, but still its captains (neither Flight, nor DMCM) may ever have under 100 pings - and this is the very topic of this thread.