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View Full Version : Red Perks - Want a 4th Option


nesnl
04-14-2009, 10:37 PM
I have been thinking about the whole Red Perk system and basically all of the 'modes' offered through red perks aren't designed to be better than another one but rather just different. So this led me to think, why can't we have the 4th version of the plane in which you can have the combination of both unlocked variations.

Basically, I am proposing you either add a 4th red perk that combines the two modified weapon changes OR you change the red perk system so that it allows you to change the primary fire and secondary fire independently. Either one yields the same result.

Maybe you could subdivide the perk selection screen for red perks so that you would select one of two options for each your primary and secondary.

Does anyone think that this shouldn't be offered? Is there any combination that would seem like it was overpowered? I just think it would add one more thing that would be easy to implement and offer 5 more choices of play style.

JamesTechno
04-15-2009, 01:11 AM
Okay hold on. Time out.
I dont like this idea simply because it will throw the game into disarray. The reason why red perks make the plane different and not better is because you're not supposed to have the best of both worlds. Secondly, if you have all the weapons rolled into one aircraft, it becomes too talented and powerful.

I do believe that the first red perk on the Biplane and Bomber (now with the addition of dumb bombs) is just a placeholder. A better description of what you can actually swap it out for is required.

nesnl
04-15-2009, 01:24 AM
Recoilless Gun, as far as I know, is not a place holder. That is because there are advantages to having a recoil gun as there are advantages to have a recoilless gun. And it's not about having the "best of both worlds" that is why there are base modes for every plane. The Dogfighter, Director, Trickter, etc modes are all supposed to be just as good as the other red perks available.

As for the bomber, call me old fashioned, but I say just put it back to where dumb bombs was an option for the primary weapon. Even if it's never truly balanced in the whole sense of how the game plays, I think it would be a shame to get rid of them and I think it's not really working out trying to fit them in otherwise. I say if people who just let people who want to use them for "bombing runs", "carpet bombing" or whatever can just live with the fact that they will probably be inferior.

Outside of that I don't see a problem with these combinations:

Double Fire and Acid Bomb
Bombs and Flak Gun (assuming it goes back to the old system)
Thermobarics and Remote Mine
Heavy Cannon and Recoilless Short Range Gun
Time Anchor and Laser

Anyone have anything negative (or maybe positive) to say about these possible combinations?

skywalker
04-15-2009, 02:26 AM
It would unbalance the game. Why would anyone use Recoilless by itself or Flak by itself if you could have both? That would be the only type of biplane you would use if your level was high enough.

The point of the red perks is that you have to choose between perks for each plane that are evenly matched, in theory (remote mine is the exception). So, combining 2 red perks to make a super red perk would be a bad idea.

If that is what you are suggesting...

nesnl
04-15-2009, 02:34 AM
It would unbalance the game. Why would anyone use Recoilless by itself or Flak by itself if you could have both? That would be the only type of biplane you would use if your level was high enough.

The point of the red perks is that you have to choose between perks for each plane that are evenly matched, in theory (remote mine is the exception). So, combining 2 red perks to make a super red perk would be a bad idea.

If that is what you are suggesting...

I think you misunderstand what I am saying. The idea behind what I am saying is rooted in the idea that no red perk is better than another (including the base red perk). If you don't agree with that then the previous post won't make sense (and you can take it up with Lam).

So to hopefully answer your question: it is not a combination of 2 red perks in the sense that you have two things at once. To clarify, I feel like you think I am saying that you should be able to have flak tailgun and regular tailgun at the same time. That is not what I am saying. I am saying that right now the only option with flak tailgun is grenadier for primary fire, so why not allow them to use bombs as primary when they have flak tailgun for their secondary.

JamesTechno
04-15-2009, 05:10 AM
You just wanna see the two interchangeable weapons together.

You could do that, but you'd need to really work it out in the game.
Part of the fun of Altitude is that you must have a certain weapon on your craft. Forcing a player to deal with circumstances and overcoming them is part of the fun. Its the plane's standard weapon, which makes it the plane that it is.

DevilsAdvocat
04-15-2009, 07:03 AM
I think you misunderstand what I am saying. The idea behind what I am saying is rooted in the idea that no red perk is better than another (including the base red perk).

lol, i mostly agree with u that they r all even, excluding the loopy. The base red perk is exactly like the second one, except the second one has double the rocket action.

Triped
04-15-2009, 01:11 PM
lol, i mostly agree with u

Nice combo.

nesnl
04-17-2009, 01:00 AM
So Lam, assuming you get what I am trying to say here, is there any reason you don't allow this 4th combination as a possibility?

Phasma Felis
04-29-2009, 02:31 AM
lol, i mostly agree with u that they r all even, excluding the loopy. The base red perk is exactly like the second one, except the second one has double the rocket action.
That's not right. The double rockets do a good bit less damage apiece and don't seek nearly as well. The seeking part is even in the description.

cokane
04-29-2009, 07:19 AM
Game doesn't need more plane types. It needs more game types and power up types.

gumbyy
04-29-2009, 07:34 AM
Game doesn't need more plane types. It needs more game types and power up types.

I agree with Cokane. This game sorely needs a TDM (Team Death Match) scenario where the object of the game is to get a certain number of kills (50? 100?) before the other team does. Not only would this be great fun in large games (7 v 7, 5 v 5 etc) it also opens up new league possibilities. A 2 v 2 TDM league would be a lot of fun and it would really showcase teamwork and dog fighting skills.

Another good idea for a game type would be CTF (Capture The Flag). The flag could spawn at the enemy base or a short distance from it. The goal would be to take the enemy's flag and return it to your base and games would be played to a certain number of points.

Anyone else have ideas for game types? Any plans to implement new game types Lam?

Gumby
L* (V)(V)
Team Vapor

DiogenesDog
04-29-2009, 09:14 AM
I kind of like that you can't have every combination. can't put my finger on why, but it's sort of neat to me. just feels right.

cokane
04-29-2009, 04:41 PM
Team Death match, as I said in the past, should work thusly:

Each team spawns at the same time, everyone lives once. Once everyone on one team (or both I guess) are dead, the surviving team gets a point. Then everyone respawns and fights again. First team to say 5 points is the winner.

This is much more strategic and will create a whole new play style in the game. Right now with TBD and FFA, you are encouraged to just kill kill kill and take little regard for your own safety (unless you're a lame TBD camper). You're rewarded for being super aggressive. Team deathmatch will encourage players to run to stay alive.

It shouldn't be rough on people joining midgame either. Each point-match should be very brief. So newcomers will spawn in the next point-match.

Some current FFA maps may have to be reworked to have different spawn points for TM (team deathmatch).

Do it lamster, you know my idea is on the money.

Triped
04-29-2009, 04:58 PM
Team Death match, as I said in the past, should work thusly:

Each team spawns at the same time, everyone lives once. Once everyone on one team (or both I guess) are dead, the surviving team gets a point. Then everyone respawns and fights again. First team to say 5 points is the winner.

This is much more strategic and will create a whole new play style in the game. Right now with TBD and FFA, you are encouraged to just kill kill kill and take little regard for your own safety (unless you're a lame TBD camper). You're rewarded for being super aggressive. Team deathmatch will encourage players to run to stay alive.

It shouldn't be rough on people joining midgame either. Each point-match should be very brief. So newcomers will spawn in the next point-match.

Some current FFA maps may have to be reworked to have different spawn points for TM (team deathmatch).

Do it lamster, you know my idea is on the money.

I like it, but that should be Team Survivor.

Spirtz
04-29-2009, 05:58 PM
I like it, but that should be Team Survivor.

i agree with tiped there should also be a mode where its just ffa with teams called TDM but i like cokanes idea too that sounds interesting

Carbon
04-29-2009, 06:02 PM
I like the idea, but I feel that only having one life will encourage people to just camp together in a tight group until someone comes within range then take them down and camp more. Something needs to encourage the teams to take a risk, maybe a point of interest like a KotH type goal so that everybody is encouraged to go to one point.

protest boy
04-29-2009, 06:12 PM
I like the idea, but I feel that only having one life will encourage people to just camp together in a tight group until someone comes within range then take them down and camp more. Something needs to encourage the teams to take a risk, maybe a point of interest like a KotH type goal so that everybody is encouraged to go to one point.

They might try that until a couple explodets fire into the group and kill them all at once. Plus, powerups would encourage people to move around the map.

I like both ideas, team death match, and team survivor.

Capture the flag would be fun too. I can think of a few different ways that might work when someone drops the flag:

- Flag automatically goes back to starting point
- Flag must be 'defused' like in TBD to make it go back to the starting point
- Flag floats in place for a time period before going back to starting point
- Flag slowly works its way across the map back towards the starting point (this one might be hard to code, but I think it's the most interesting)

And I'll randomly throw out the suggestion again to get the hit point numbers displayed over the base health bar already!

I wonder how long lamster and Karl's TODO list is...it makes my head hurt just thinking about it.

DiogenesDog
04-29-2009, 06:46 PM
Best part of CTF would be that you'd have to land to return it, so we'd be bringing back frequent runway kills. :)