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View Full Version : Request to ban ridiculous perk sets in ladder servers


elxir
07-07-2010, 02:48 AM
Setups that make no sense and are terrible ruin games. The player may claim they are trying, but frankly if you intentionally use a vastly inferior setup I believe it is intentionally hurting the team.

The only true offenders right now are (for ball):

loopy with flexi wings and rev thrust
miranda with time anchor / flexi / rev thrust

They add no benefit over any other setup. They make your plane worse in every way possible.

Kill them.

elxir
07-07-2010, 02:57 AM
Like, ladder is a competitive setting wherein each player should be using a plane they are very good with that helps the team. These planes are "fun" to experiment with, but they have no place in what is supposed to be a high skill level server.

Herodadotus
07-07-2010, 03:03 AM
Setups that make no sense and are terrible ruin games. The player may claim they are trying, but frankly if you intentionally use a vastly inferior setup I believe it is intentionally hurting the team.

The only true offenders right now are (for ball):

loopy with flexi wings and rev thrust
miranda with time anchor / flexi / rev thrust

They add no benefit over any other setup. They make your plane worse in every way possible.

Kill them.

Well, I agree that these setups are bad for a team. I hesitate to say people use these intentionally to screw the team, though. I think flexi and rev thrust together is overall a bad combination. One or the other, not both. (And preferably flexi over rev right now.) Maybe we need to just tell these players why the setup is inferior, unless they're just doing it to be obstinant.

Kuja900
07-07-2010, 03:12 AM
I am all for the banning of rev thrust in its entirety unless your name is beagle

Boko
07-07-2010, 03:37 AM
Boost reverse, in my opinion. As it's not a viable competative perk as shown in the entity that is this thread :D

Void
07-07-2010, 03:38 AM
+1, i'm definitely with elixir and kuj on this one. Isn't ladder meant to have games of higher quality and competitive play? I mean seriously if you choose to fly a reverse flex loopy on ladder you may aswell fly it without any perks it's just simple as that, no difference at all.

Herodadotus
07-07-2010, 03:54 AM
+1, i'm definitely with elixir and kuj on this one. Isn't ladder meant to have games of higher quality and competitive play? I mean seriously if you choose to fly a reverse flex loopy on ladder you may aswell fly it without any perks it's just simple as that, no difference at all.

I think all of us are with elixir and Kuja at the moment.

ufo
07-07-2010, 04:40 AM
i'm not. i don't see any problem with any setup.

its a game.

Sarah Palin
07-07-2010, 04:42 AM
The thing is IN THEORY the ladder will balance this by lowering your rating again and again until you are "properly rated" at which point you will approach a 50% win ratio.

The problem is IN PRACTICE this takes forever. There is one player on ball ladder who has almost 70 games but his ratio is still 33% i.e. he still has too many points. Another player has a 40% win ratio and nearly 140 games.

Bad players take a long time to reach appropriate rank which is why crappy players can ruin games.

Void
07-07-2010, 04:49 AM
I think all of us are with elixir and Kuja at the moment.

pretty fast edit there smartass

tgleaf
07-07-2010, 04:58 AM
I am all for the banning of rev thrust in its entirety unless your name is beagle

This is the way I'm leaning, too. Seeing reverse in the Dojo server is annoying, where the competitive level is at least >pubs for the most part. Seeing it in ladder is ridiculous. Still, there must be a way to exert social pressure without actually banning a perk.

Herodadotus
07-07-2010, 05:10 AM
pretty fast edit there smartass

Damn, got caught. :p

Harmonica
07-07-2010, 05:38 AM
This thread is a wonderful, depressing exemplification of the reasons I don't play ladder.

Competitive gameplay is too conservative and monochromatic as-is. I do not see how further uniformity would either decrease the "waiting for players" duration or add excitement to the games themselves.

tgleaf
07-07-2010, 05:43 AM
This thread is a wonderful, depressing exemplification of the reasons I don't play ladder.

Competitive gameplay is too conservative and monochromatic as-is. I do not see how further uniformity would either decrease the "waiting for players" duration or add excitement to the games themselves.

In defense of conservatism, many ladder matches come down to the wire (not all, of course... there are still inexplicable 6-1 games and what not). When a single player brings down a team by using a useless perk, it can easily sway the game. That gets old real fast. As I've said before, I honestly don't mind a player doing their best and struggling (if you're absolutely terrible, you shouldn't be playing ladder in the first place, of course), but it's different when you miss easy saves near goal or can't seem to avoid walls because you're flying in reverse.

Evan20000
07-07-2010, 05:48 AM
Add dumb bombs to the list. There is NO conceivable reason you should ever be using these in either ladder.

hurripilot
07-07-2010, 07:03 AM
http://media.photobucket.com/image/Joe%20McCarthy/Stephanie1979_bucket/mine/Politics/political-pictures-joe-mccarthy-wit.jpg

Senator McCarthy approves of this thread.

Herodadotus
07-07-2010, 07:10 AM
http://media.photobucket.com/image/Joe%20McCarthy/Stephanie1979_bucket/mine/Politics/political-pictures-joe-mccarthy-wit.jpg

Senator McCarthy approves of this thread.

Oh, McCarthy... So dashing!

Stormich
07-07-2010, 07:12 AM
There's a pretty thin line you're crossing with banning some setups because where do you draw the line? Everyone has a different opinion. If you ask me there's a lot more perks that are not even close to other choices, most notably any plane using reverse, flexi loopy/randa/bomber, dogfighter/recoiless if theyre not running, dumb bombs, even director. I'd love to have a place where you wouldn't get people playing ridiculous setups but it wouldn't be fair to the "alternative" people.

argonide
07-07-2010, 07:24 AM
I'm all for banning all the 'hardcore' reverse thrust users... but then again I also think anything that isn't turbo/ultra heavy/repair is a suboptimal perk set. Like storm said where can you draw the line? Good players are good regardless of perks when they try. Just ban players that make the game unpleasant. Even the worst/just-finished-tutorial players can choose bomber, press f at the chokes and contribute to the team.

elxir
07-07-2010, 07:39 AM
this was originally a request to ban people if they are terrible and ruin an entire teams chances but i figured that would not be received as well.

XX1
07-07-2010, 08:08 AM
this was originally a request to ban people if they are terrible and ruin an entire teams chances but i figured that would not be received as well.

Oh and could we ban this SWN V person, he was in a couple ladder matches today, left without having a reason. Using the DF, Flexi + reverse perks. Playing not appropriately for ladder. Elixir may add more. I think he was there as well.
Goose tried to ban SWN V, though he couldn't for some reason...


-XX2

DMCM
07-07-2010, 12:26 PM
I agree with this. Let's keep ladder competitive. In my oinion:


- Rubber Hull is by far the worst green perk and only people who can't fly use it. Ban it.

- The only blue perks that should be allowed are Turbo and Ultra (only whores use AI, only noobs, with a couple exceptions, use Reverse)

- Red perks... I don't really care, I hate to have any trackers or dumb bombers in my teams, but whatever.

banana
07-07-2010, 12:35 PM
Let them use whatever perks they want. As a result if they are bad then their rating will go down until it stabilizes at a bad level. Then the ladder is balanced.

Any attempts to put this into practice will either;
1. Discourage any newer players from playing when they get shouted at for having a bouncy hull
2. Be unenforceable
3. Make the game community turn more elitist than it already is

Kuja900
07-07-2010, 01:16 PM
I agree with this. Let's keep ladder competitive. In my oinion:


- Rubber Hull is by far the worst green perk and only people who can't fly use it. Ban it.

- The only blue perks that should be allowed are Turbo and Ultra (only whores use AI, only noobs, with a couple exceptions, use Reverse)

- Red perks... I don't really care, I hate to have any trackers or dumb bombers in my teams, but whatever.

With the rubber hull changes recently its actually viable (although I'd never use it) so I would not ban that one, same deal with AI. Really the only thing I would ban is rev thrust.

Kuja900
07-07-2010, 01:17 PM
Any attempts to put this into practice will either;


1. Discourage any newer players from playing when they get shouted at for having a bouncy hull

-We want to discourage newer players from playing until they have the experience needed to be at a competitive level aka not bring down their entire team.

2. Be unenforceable

-There are enough admins to enforce this, if not more can be added.

3. Make the game community turn more elitist than it already is

Elitism is the best ism.

DMCM
07-07-2010, 01:22 PM
I don't really see the point of Ace Instincts in compettive 5v5.

Any player in 5v5 won't stay alive more than 1-2 minutes even with gold bars, no matter how good he is. If he's staying alive much longer, he's dodging any confrontations and being useless to the team.


I'd like to see AI banned just to discourage ratio whoring.



@banana, I understand what you're saying, but we might as well keep the elitism all in one place. Let them reverse all they want in officials and other public servers and keep Ladder free of all that so we have a place for constant competitive games

Kuja900
07-07-2010, 01:25 PM
Well with AI allowing you to accumulate bars faster now I think it is quite possible to get gold bars frequently without whoring. Keep in mind AI's effectiveness begins way before you hit gold.

mikesol
07-07-2010, 01:30 PM
<.< I play rubber hull loopy occasionally. With the current upgrade to its power I actually enjoy it and can do fairly well with it :)

ufo
07-07-2010, 03:07 PM
there's always someone to blame at the end of a ladder match, be it because of general skill, plane composition, or perk set-up. throw in the imperfections of auto-balance, the inevitability of players who abuse their lag for bomin (how do you think flight666 got to be #1 all that time ago), and other extraneous factors, and you come to realize that pointing the finger is futile. the real solution is to take losses like a man and stop QQin every time your rank goes down. i'm certainly still guilty of ragin at someone in the ladder for being a detriment to the team, but i'm also frequently the person responsible for losses. for instance, last night i lost 9 straight games in ball ladder knowing all-the-while that i was in no position to be playing well.

maybe we should ban drunk ufo too.

how often do you see a rev user anyways? and furthermore, how often is it their fault, and only their fault that your team lost.

tgleaf
07-07-2010, 03:44 PM
maybe we should ban drunk ufo too.

That's fine, just don't ban drunk guava. :p

how often do you see a rev user anyways? and furthermore, how often is it their fault, and only their fault that your team lost.

Always? Never? Is that a trick question?

As I said earlier, I lean toward banning reverse thrust but in the end I think I'd rather have teams deal with the issue and have admins ban players when necessary. Obviously, there could be a skilled rev user, although they are few and far between. I think my worry would be that if rev was banned entirely, it would dissuade people from getting better at it in the pub games. Give someone enough time (Beagle) with rev thrust and they will eventually master it. If you cut out a perk at the highest competitive level, you thereby cut it out at lower levels for players interested in playing/reaching ladder.

Kuja900
07-07-2010, 03:47 PM
how often do you see a rev user anyways? and furthermore, how often is it their fault, and only their fault that your team lost.

Uhh all the time and every time provided they refuse to switch planes.

Kuja900
07-07-2010, 03:49 PM
That's fine, just don't ban drunk guava. :p



Always? Never? Is that a trick question?

As I said earlier, I lean toward banning reverse thrust but in the end I think I'd rather have teams deal with the issue and have admins ban players when necessary. Obviously, there could be a skilled rev user, although they are few and far between. I think my worry would be that if rev was banned entirely, it would dissuade people from getting better at it in the pub games. Give someone enough time (Beagle) with rev thrust and they will eventually master it. If you cut out a perk at the highest competitive level, you thereby cut it out at lower levels for players interested in playing/reaching ladder.

Tgleaf reverse thrust is useless at every level, in my previous post I just mentioned Beagle because I love him. Even good reverse thrust players are useless to their teams, it is a novelty perk of no value to team play. In over a year of time there has not been one rev user useful to a team, even its most prominent user (Beagle) was absolutely ineffective as a team player in 5v5/7v7 scenarios.

mlopes
07-07-2010, 04:02 PM
As I said earlier, I lean toward banning reverse thrust but in the end I think I'd rather have teams deal with the issue and have admins ban players when necessary.

In sum, ban a-holes!

elxir
07-07-2010, 04:17 PM
there's always someone to blame at the end of a ladder match, be it because of general skill, plane composition, or perk set-up. throw in the imperfections of auto-balance, the inevitability of players who abuse their lag for bomin (how do you think flight666 got to be #1 all that time ago), and other extraneous factors, and you come to realize that pointing the finger is futile. the real solution is to take losses like a man and stop QQin every time your rank goes down. i'm certainly still guilty of ragin at someone in the ladder for being a detriment to the team, but i'm also frequently the person responsible for losses. for instance, last night i lost 9 straight games in ball ladder knowing all-the-while that i was in no position to be playing well.

maybe we should ban drunk ufo too.

how often do you see a rev user anyways? and furthermore, how often is it their fault, and only their fault that your team lost.

about 6 games in i suggested you stop playing, tbh...even though our rankings mean we would never have been on the same team and i'd only benefit from you continuing.

the best games are those where all players are taking it reasonably seriously, using an effective combination of planes, and all players are competent enough to see the game developing and respond as needed to help their team.

there is a reason spectators and opponents go "LOLOLOLOLOL" when they see a reverse thrust loopy on a team. it has no purpose. it is not an effective plane. there is never a time where someone goes, "wow i sure wish i had equipped reverse thrust on my loopy right now."

as for ace instincts, i believe that zero and bgaf both use it quite effectively without whoring, as do numerous others.

the purpose of my request is not to ban everything except the "best" perks, it is to remove those perk setups that simply do nothing.

p.s. rubber hull bomber is pro, fffuuuuuu

Evan20000
07-07-2010, 04:29 PM
I don't really see the point of Ace Instincts in compettive 5v5.

Instincts bombing with 3 gold bars is quite a powerful tactic that shouldn't be overlooked. 40 base damage is nothing to sneeze at. That, and it lets Biplanes and Mirandas become even more efficiency at ganking their prey.

EDIT:
there's always someone to blame at the end of a ladder match, be it because of general skill, plane composition, or perk set-up. throw in the imperfections of auto-balance, the inevitability of players who abuse their lag for bomin (how do you think flight666 got to be #1 all that time ago), and other extraneous factors, and you come to realize that pointing the finger is futile. the real solution is to take losses like a man and stop QQin every time your rank goes down. i'm certainly still guilty of ragin at someone in the ladder for being a detriment to the team, but i'm also frequently the person responsible for losses. for instance, last night i lost 9 straight games in ball ladder knowing all-the-while that i was in no position to be playing well.

maybe we should ban drunk ufo too.

how often do you see a rev user anyways? and furthermore, how often is it their fault, and only their fault that your team lost.
There will always be rage. This thread is just trying to weed out the inefficient perk setups. There's nothing wrong with learning ladder, the problem starts when these people refuse to change to better themselves and the team.

andy
07-07-2010, 05:17 PM
you cant ban an entire perk because some players still use it effectively. Check out Nathor's rev explo.

imo we should ban loopy+rev, miranda+rev, bomber+rev and im not really sure about sniplane but im leaning towards banning it since it isnt really useful in team games.

Kuja900
07-07-2010, 05:32 PM
you cant ban an entire perk because some players still use it effectively. Check out Nathor's rev explo.

imo we should ban loopy+rev, miranda+rev, bomber+rev and im not really sure about sniplane but im leaning towards banning it since it isnt really useful in team games.

Nathors rev splo is useless, you can safely ban rev thrust in its entirety.

classicallad
07-07-2010, 05:34 PM
just popped in to say that i dont care either way, i just yell and cuss at stupid people until they either change or leave. job done imo

Evan20000
07-07-2010, 06:51 PM
just popped in to say that i dont care either way, i just yell and cuss at stupid people until they either change or leave. job done imo

I think that's how we all do it, but I feel like a massive dick afterwards.

Kuja900
07-07-2010, 06:55 PM
I think that's how we all do it, but I feel like a massive dick afterwards.

You get used to it

ufo
07-07-2010, 07:10 PM
the best games are those where all players are taking it reasonably seriously, using an effective combination of planes, and all players are competent enough to see the game developing and respond as needed to help their team.

wouldn't it be great if this were the norm? unfortunately its not, and it never will be. i've been in only a handful of legit tbd ladder games and maybe like 30 good ball games. i've also lost plenty of games because a rev user wasn't exactly playing the most effectively, beagle even comes to mind on several occasions. this doesn't mean that they lost the game for the team.

the game is balanced in such a way that rev is completely viable if used properly, but it seems like enuff people are bitching about it that y'all might get your way. i'd like to hear what nobo thinks before the waaaahmbulance convoy continues, i'm certainly done for now.

Evan20000
07-07-2010, 07:12 PM
I think a better solution for this would be just buffing Rev/Dumb bombs and calling it a day. This better serves diversity and people (myself included) stop QQing. Everyone gets cake.

Kuja900
07-07-2010, 07:13 PM
I have yet to find a player who can prove reverse thrusts viability to me, what evidence do you have for its viability in competitive play?

Kuja900
07-07-2010, 07:14 PM
I think a better solution for this would be just buffing Rev/Dumb bombs and calling it a day. This better serves diversity and people (myself included) stop QQing. Everyone gets cake.

Dumb bombs should be scrapped for a new red perk imo, how exactly would you rework either of them? I cant even begin to imagine what a rev thrust buff would be like.

ufo
07-07-2010, 07:24 PM
Evidence for previous use of rev in an effective manner competitively and the ability for someone to use the perk effectively in a competitive setting are not mutually exclusive.

To quote The Santa Clause:
"Have you ever seen a million dollars?"
"Uh..no"
"Well, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist."

I've said all I'm gonna say tho. Like class, I don't rly give a ****. I just wish everyone else would relax about such an arbitrary and subjective subject.

Evan20000
07-07-2010, 07:29 PM
Dumb bombs should be scrapped for a new red perk imo, how exactly would you rework either of them? I cant even begin to imagine what a rev thrust buff would be like.

Possible rev buffs were posted in the other thread (I think only 1 or 2 of them actually fix it though), as for dumb bombs.... yeah, I dunno either.

Kuja900
07-07-2010, 07:37 PM
Evidence for previous use of rev in an effective manner competitively and the ability for someone to use the perk effectively in a competitive setting are not mutually exclusive.

To quote The Santa Clause:
"Have you ever seen a million dollars?"
"Uh..no"
"Well, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist."

I've said all I'm gonna say tho. Like class, I don't rly give a ****. I just wish everyone else would relax about such an arbitrary and subjective subject.

Given that the perk has been around for as long as it has and the community has yet to see any such results I think we can safely assume it is not up to par in its current incarnation.

Sarah Palin
07-08-2010, 12:58 AM
In defense of conservatism, many ladder matches come down to the wire (not all, of course... there are still inexplicable 6-1 games and what not).

There are actually many 6-1 and 6-2 games because of flaws in the ladder model.

The biggest problems are:

1. Plane imbalance. It's possible to pick two "balanced" teams where one will always lose because it has an unbalanced plane composition. In theory you could even have a "balanced" all whale vs all loopy game.

2. Map imbalance. It's possible to pick two "balanced" teams where one team has a far superior record on the map than another. As an example I win 3/4 of my games on Darkwar and lose an equally skewed number of my games on Grotto.

3. Plane mixing. The ladder can't accurately rank players who use 2 or more plane setups unless they are roughly equally good at all of them.


3 is probably not fixable but 1 and 2 definitely are. And since they happen more often than people using silly perks, the focus should be there.

Sunaku
07-08-2010, 05:05 AM
the best games are those where all players are taking it reasonably seriously, using an effective combination of planes, and all players are competent enough to see the game developing and respond as needed to help their team.
Says the guy who plays random plane setup on ladder.
Oh credibility, I shout your name but I only hear an echo.

matattack
07-11-2010, 09:47 AM
i just wanted to say props to fo for sayin what he been sayin cause thats what im sayin.
srsly if ur gonna blame the other guy, then grow up n play better.
i could have every right in that case to say dont play thermo because i think its bad, and because u were playing it and we lost i blame you.
really now..
if the game allows the perk, then shouldnt the ladder?
anything goes imo. if ur stuck with the baddie, play better :)

andy
07-11-2010, 03:57 PM
if the game allows the perk, then shouldnt the ladder?
anything goes imo.

The game also allows for full random and perkless setups, would they be useful for the team?
Its about what benefits your team not what is fun/allowed.

Smushface
07-11-2010, 04:02 PM
There are actually many 6-1 and 6-2 games because of flaws in the ladder model.

The biggest problems are:

1. Plane imbalance. It's possible to pick two "balanced" teams where one will always lose because it has an unbalanced plane composition. In theory you could even have a "balanced" all whale vs all loopy game.

2. Map imbalance. It's possible to pick two "balanced" teams where one team has a far superior record on the map than another. As an example I win 3/4 of my games on Darkwar and lose an equally skewed number of my games on Grotto.

3. Plane mixing. The ladder can't accurately rank players who use 2 or more plane setups unless they are roughly equally good at all of them.


3 is probably not fixable but 1 and 2 definitely are. And since they happen more often than people using silly perks, the focus should be there.

Honestly, I used to complain about plane imbalance too but after I thought about it, I like the current implementation of no plane balance. If every game I played was "balanced" with the 3 heavy / 2 light plane that has somewhat become standard then games would get incredibly repetitive and boring. Being forced to play with and against a random motley of planes forces you to think on your feet, adjust your playstyle, and gets you out of your comfort zone, making you an all around better player.

GGQ
07-11-2010, 06:01 PM
Just read this thread. There should absolutely not be a ban on any perks in ladder. That's silly.

Evan20000
07-11-2010, 07:45 PM
Honestly, I used to complain about plane imbalance too but after I thought about it, I like the current implementation of no plane balance. If every game I played was "balanced" with the 3 heavy / 2 light plane that has somewhat become standard then games would get incredibly repetitive and boring. Being forced to play with and against a random motley of planes forces you to think on your feet, adjust your playstyle, and gets you out of your comfort zone, making you an all around better player.

Except for those games when you get 3 biplanes, 1 bomber and a miranda. Then you just autolose.

Kuja900
07-11-2010, 07:50 PM
Honestly, I used to complain about plane imbalance too but after I thought about it, I like the current implementation of no plane balance. If every game I played was "balanced" with the 3 heavy / 2 light plane that has somewhat become standard then games would get incredibly repetitive and boring. Being forced to play with and against a random motley of planes forces you to think on your feet, adjust your playstyle, and gets you out of your comfort zone, making you an all around better player.

I must disagree, adjusting your play outside of the metagame does not make you a better player imo. Getting used to less planned out setups just makes you develop habits/play styles that are useless against an organized well composed entity.

ufo
07-11-2010, 08:25 PM
Its about what benefits your team not what is fun

loooooool
like...wut?

hurripilot
07-11-2010, 08:44 PM
loooooool
like...wut?

fofo, you and I are from a bygone era. A new order has descended upon us, an order of basement-dwellers trying to justify their nerd rage. These are sad times, my friend.

Kuja900
07-11-2010, 08:48 PM
You want fun go to off 3, ladder is a place reserved for a strictly competitive environment imo.

silent skies
07-11-2010, 09:18 PM
I'm waiting to see Nike sponsorship and a line of Altitude sneakers (with air pumps).

Evan20000
07-11-2010, 09:25 PM
Nike would bribe Nobo to put Tiger Woods into the #1 slot on the ladder.

He would also rage so hard when he lost that he would make ACE players look calm and civil.

ufo
07-11-2010, 09:44 PM
You want fun go to off 3, ladder is a place reserved for a strictly competitive environment imo.

if you want fun, go play a videogame online. o wait

qq

Kuja900
07-11-2010, 09:49 PM
I will clarify, if you want to mess around go to official 3. Messing around in ladder servers ruins the fun for the rest of us.

silent skies
07-11-2010, 10:23 PM
if you want fun, go play a videogame offline. o wait

qq

Fixed.

Messing around in ladder servers ruins the fun for the rest of us.

You're not supposed to be having fun in the first place, it's ladder.

countryninja
07-12-2010, 10:19 PM
Well, I agree that these setups are bad for a team. I hesitate to say people use these intentionally to screw the team, though. I think flexi and rev thrust together is overall a bad combination. One or the other, not both. (And preferably flexi over rev right now.) Maybe we need to just tell these players why the setup is inferior, unless they're just doing it to be obstinant.

I agree Herodadotus, I am just a bit curious as to why these setups are even available ( at all ) If they are so bad. On the other hand, maybe the creators of Altitude left the setup to be chosen by each individual player's liking. I do understand that Ladder is a Private server and their opinions obviously will overrule what anyone thinks, so maybe the Ladder admins could possibly have a patch made where the setups that are not acceptable, could not be used in that server? Not sure if It can be done or not, just an Idea. This sure would stop a lot of fussing and fighting. ( Which really gets old )

elxir
07-12-2010, 11:27 PM
I agree Herodadotus, I am just a bit curious as to why these setups are even available ( at all ) If they are so bad. On the other hand, maybe the creators of Altitude left the setup to be chosen by each individual player's liking. I do understand that Ladder is a Private server and their opinions obviously will overrule what anyone thinks, so maybe the Ladder admins could possibly have a patch made where the setups that are not acceptable, could not be used in that server? Not sure if It can be done or not, just an Idea. This sure would stop a lot of fussing and fighting. ( Which really gets old )

The server admin can already define what plane setups are or aren't allowed within the server.

A Nipple
07-13-2010, 04:44 PM
can we get some banege on using ace instincts its got no roll in tbd ladder! every time i have seen people use it they dont even get bars!

Evan20000
07-13-2010, 05:43 PM
I'm a little disturbed. Yesterday, I played a few games using Trick/HA/Ace and didn't get called out once for it. I only ask that everyone gets the same treatment regarding perk selection if we're going to be elitists.

Wok3N^
07-13-2010, 06:59 PM
To be honest, the best way to solve this problem is that if there is someone using perks that aren't favorable by his/her team, that team should ask an admin (assuming there is one in the server) to force a perk change and the admin can grant the change or let play continue.

hurripilot
07-13-2010, 07:13 PM
To be honest, the best way to solve this problem is that if there is someone using perks that aren't favorable by his/her team, that team should ask an admin (assuming there is one in the server) to force a perk change and the admin can grant the change or let play continue.

What would happen if an admin banned a perk during play? Would the player using the perk get an auto ban, or would they just lose the perk from their setup?

matattack
07-13-2010, 07:26 PM
I'm a little disturbed. Yesterday, I played a few games using Trick/HA/Ace and didn't get called out once for it. I only ask that everyone gets the same treatment regarding perk selection if we're going to be elitists.

exactly. however, there still shouldnt be any "treatement" regarding perk selection.

i mean just because its competitive doesnt mean there isnt any fun involved. nor is there messing around..as i do all the time, most likely causing my team to fail because of my high ranking. however, when people ask me to change i would change for them. as important as it seems to try to reinforce the issue, asking for a change should always be step one..not bans, kicks, or admin-change-whatever-thingys. seriously the admins have enough on their hands dealing with all the complaints.
if that still doesnt work then tough patuties? i mean damn? i lost a ladder game? maybe next game ill be on the opposite team of the guy who "lost the game for me" and win a game?
it shouldnt really be that big of a deal guys. if ur good enough, u will eventually hit the top ranks...with or without bans or lame people.

Wok3N^
07-14-2010, 04:21 AM
What would happen if an admin banned a perk during play? Would the player using the perk get an auto ban, or would they just lose the perk from their setup?

No the admin would enforce that the plane setup isn't allowed and if that player still continued to use it, he/she would be banned.

Evan20000
07-14-2010, 05:12 AM
if ur good enough, u will eventually hit the top ranks...with or without bans or lame people.

Or you can do what I did. I got lucky a few days ago where only people rank 30 and above were in the server, and we went at it for about 5 hours. I slowly climbed to the top because Ingbo and UFO were on my team for most of it. >.>

-MH-CaptainVogez
07-15-2010, 05:22 AM
I must say, I use time anchor + reverse and notice it pisses people off, even in normal servers.

My argument is that if you play with a plane and become familiar with it, then you would be no better of playing with another.

Beagle
07-15-2010, 05:49 AM
Its about what benefits your team not what is fun/allowed.

Oh look, now I remember why I keep leaving this game

elxir
07-15-2010, 06:06 AM
Oh look, now I remember why I keep leaving this game

non-ladder servers are that way ---->

Beagle
07-15-2010, 06:30 AM
When nobo enforces NO FUN ALLOWED on the ladder servers I'll be happy to leave, until then I enjoy 5v5 with people of reasonable skill

evilarsenal
07-28-2010, 05:06 PM
i played maybe 5 games in TBD today, with 3 noobs who used ACE instincs who couldnt even rack up kills

can we ban ACE instincts? or atleast, if i ask someone to change and they don't do it, can we kick them?

I won a game in ball 6-3 or something even with Jedi Mind Sh*t playing with Ace, he changed after 6 goals were scored, but still, the game was 20 minutes long.

I come to play good games, i dont care what my rating is (its horrible) and i get frustrated when someone uses ace and cant even get kills. I ask them, and FU the other day was kicked for asking someone to change it

Can i get some sort of answer for these noobs :[, what should i do? i don't want to sit through it,

tomato man
07-28-2010, 05:15 PM
i'm not. i don't see any problem with any setup.

its a game.

true, keep in the mind that this is just a game, and if ppl want play for fun they can

evilarsenal
07-28-2010, 05:17 PM
its ladder, if u want to play the game go to official tres, ladder was set as a specific clear atmosphere

don't troll 9 people and don't waste 9 people's time in ladder, or 11 whatever

shrode
07-28-2010, 05:31 PM
I can't believe we won that game with Jedi Mind SH** on our team evil. he was remote flexi ace if my memory serves me right, and at one point he was like 4-13 and at the bottom of our team. And he would not switch or even reply to our requests to switch even after we explained that ace instincts doesn't help him at all.

Then he broke the player count the next game and quickly got kicked ha. He had to have been griefing intentionally.

evilarsenal
07-28-2010, 05:40 PM
i remember he was 0-8 with ace, and this is at a point where im taking the game semi-seriously

my face: -_- are you serious

i freaking hate noobs like that

tgleaf
07-28-2010, 06:13 PM
Jedi Mind SH** is done. That's a repeat offense for him. Long ban. Thanks for reporting it.

Evan20000
07-28-2010, 06:54 PM
He has a history of this? Ladder is an easy trolling target though, I must say.

evilarsenal
07-28-2010, 06:56 PM
yes, i can go on 6 other accounts with proxies and troll everyone, and the worst thing is, i can never get banned

here i come time anchor flexi wings ace instincts, i wanna get kills but only against my teammates with the missile thing, i bet i can outfrag anyone, without killing any opponents

Stormich
07-28-2010, 07:42 PM
true, keep in the mind that this is just a game, and if ppl want play for fun they can

This is exactly what's wrong with people in ladder servers. Ladder is made for gamers, meaning we want better rating, better rating=more fun for gamers. We want to compete, if a person on your side is playing some stupid perk setup your team loses their edge. You can have all the fun as a casual on the official, or any other servers in fact. Ladder is for gamers, doing stupid **** is for casuals. (yes i know its a small indie game lol)

Kuja900
07-28-2010, 11:04 PM
This is exactly what's wrong with people in ladder servers. Ladder is made for gamers, meaning we want better rating, better rating=more fun for gamers. We want to compete, if a person on your side is playing some stupid perk setup your team loses their edge. You can have all the fun as a casual on the official, or any other servers in fact. Ladder is for gamers, doing stupid **** is for casuals. (yes i know its a small indie game lol)

This, for us "bitter vets" an escape from casuals is essential to our fun.

Sunaku
07-29-2010, 12:29 AM
Talking about stupid perks, I think people playing random plane setup in ladder should definitely be rewarded with community points.
Because let's be frank, nothing screams more teamplay than someone not caring the least about his perks or even the team's plane composition.
And having 3 random setups on the same team like today is just pure competitive fun !
So this is a call to all the admins around the world. Please unite, join your hands and have the courage to make a stand by giving those good souls the praise they deserve !

matattack
07-29-2010, 06:22 AM
lol you "bitter vets" sadden me -.-

Stormich
07-29-2010, 08:23 AM
We can't all be happy go lucky! I'm proud to be bitter :D Helps me alienate people :cool:

Kuja900
07-29-2010, 12:04 PM
We can't all be happy go lucky! I'm proud to be bitter :D Helps me alienate people :cool:

amen TL brother

evilarsenal
07-31-2010, 11:35 PM
ladder is so stupid now, ban people who use rev or ace instincts just ban them forever

Evan20000
08-01-2010, 02:20 AM
ladder is so stupid now, ban people who use rev or ace instincts just ban them forever

:(

I'll go away now.

evilarsenal
08-01-2010, 09:50 AM
better gtfo evan, this is the APL championships on ESPN OCHO

Zero
08-02-2010, 07:36 PM
I vote banning random in ladder lol

[Y]
08-02-2010, 08:14 PM
I vote banning random in ladder lol
What's a hypocrite?

Evan20000
08-02-2010, 08:37 PM
;68550']What's a hypocrite?

A miserable little pile of secrets. Cookies if you get the joke.

elxir
08-08-2010, 08:06 AM
:(

I'll go away now.

i actually tried mimicking this joker's perks and failed miserably

safe to say ace instincts is too pro for everyone else if i can't manage it

Evan20000
08-08-2010, 08:08 AM
i actually tried mimicking this joker's perks and failed miserably

safe to say ace instincts is too pro for everyone else if i can't manage it

I remember that game. I was going 12-2 and you were going 2-9. <3 Lix

Corvus Crypt
08-08-2010, 02:07 PM
Ace instincts is extremely annoying when the person using it is not very good or has no clue what they're doing, but I think that it is a very useful perk (at least compared to reverse thrust). When playing planes that can get plenty of assists like bombers, explos, and even loopies, you can quickly get several assists and actually help your team while gaining ace ranks which will further increase your effectiveness. When I play acid loopy, I often get only slightly more kills than deaths, but I always get a lot of assists. Ace instincts allows me to use those assists and then get plenty of kills.

Anyway, just my opinion that you don't have to whore for it to be effective, and you can help your team with it but it is horrible if used improperly.

Evan20000
08-08-2010, 06:09 PM
That and 40 damage bombs are the ****.

Stormich
08-08-2010, 07:00 PM
Personally I don't like ace instincts but maybe i just suck at whoring, I tried doing Sinstars randa setup and it's just so bad until you get bars, the only plane that IMO can work nice with ace is remote cause it has smaller energy needs than most planes, this all assuming that you don't get EMPed. EMP > any low veteran ace user.

Evan20000
08-08-2010, 09:36 PM
Randa is at a slight disadvantage without bars, but is by no means bad. You just need to pick and choose your battles.

elxir
08-09-2010, 02:04 AM
Randa is at a slight disadvantage without bars, but is by no means bad. You just need to pick and choose your battles.

i started using ur setup for srs in ball dojo today

i uhh...yea. rape ensued.

Evan20000
08-09-2010, 02:27 AM
See? Slap on Instincts and rape everyone.

evilarsenal
08-09-2010, 02:49 AM
can we get a test going for people so they can use reverse or ace instincts... like a drivers license -_-

some test, and let them only use it...

no one else or ban 1000 years

Evan20000
08-09-2010, 02:55 AM
That would actually be pretty lulzy.

Stormich
08-09-2010, 09:27 AM
Most people playing ace or reverse would be candidates for banning even with normal perks cause basically anyone playing them sucks :D

Loli.ta
08-10-2010, 04:19 PM
Looks like I will be a candidate for being banned. -___-;;

Evan20000
08-10-2010, 08:13 PM
Most people playing ace or reverse would be candidates for banning even with normal perks cause basically anyone playing them sucks :D
No U. Instincts is pretty damn good when played properly.

Looks like I will be a candidate for being banned. -___-;;
I'll break you out of jail if they do.

banana
08-10-2010, 08:33 PM
How dare people ruin my precious rating by playing setups that I have not personally approved!

shrode
08-10-2010, 09:03 PM
full random should be a bannable offense.

that is all

hurripilot
08-10-2010, 11:04 PM
full random should be a bannable offense.

that is all

+1, custom random as well. You need to be able to count on someone playing the same setup for the whole game, unless of course they make one or two changes for the team's benefit.

mikesol
08-11-2010, 01:29 AM
IMO full random should be the only thing allowed. After all if you can play every plane well you're clearly better than everyone else. Screw strategies and plane combos - they never did anything to help out.

DevilsAdvocat
08-11-2010, 11:36 PM
IMO TIME ANCHOR should be the only thing allowed. After all if you can play every plane well you're clearly better than everyone else. Screw strategies and plane combos - they never did anything to help out.

fixed that for you

Fartface
08-13-2010, 10:40 AM
Is this a ridiculous perk set?

tomato man
08-13-2010, 11:10 AM
Is this a ridiculous perk set?

...yes ıt ıs:rolleyes:

Beagle
08-14-2010, 08:54 AM
Most people playing ace or reverse would be candidates for banning even with normal perks cause basically anyone playing them sucks :D

I thought we had something special

Evan20000
08-14-2010, 07:08 PM
I thought we had something special

You slept with him too? :(