Oh comon...

[Premier Stalin]

I just got a 90 day ladder ban for lagging?

[Sean]

That sux.
How many ladder ban complaints is this now???

[ryebone]

If you really want admins to take you seriously, could you possibly add some more detail to your request?

[Premier Stalin]

If you really want admins to take you seriously, could you possibly add some more detail to your request?

Yes, I just got a ladder ban for lagging. Simple.

[evilarsenal]

you leave like half the games, and dc all the time, i'm surprised its not longer

[ryebone]

Yes, I just got a ladder ban for lagging. Simple.

If this is the effort you're putting into your appeal, this is the effort I'm putting in to helping you out:




........................

[Premier Stalin]

Look on my ladder page, its like 1.4% for ball, and 4% for tbd. If I played ladder more it would be much less. I have not once left a game for anything other than I really had to, and have then apologised and always accepted the bans when they were fair. Also, Evil, i said sorry, i dont even remember annoying u, so i give up. Just ignore me if im that annoying.

[Premier Stalin]

If this is the effort you're putting into your appeal, this is the effort I'm putting in to helping you out:




........................

What do u want me to say? I was plaing, and then after the match i got banned reason: soz nop, and spoke to ssd and he sed it was beacause i was lagging, when im pretty sure i only heard dragon moanign at me, and I was pretty sure i wasnt lagging the first game. Apparently i was spiking, but i was watchign ping and i didnt see it spike once. I then specced when asked for unbreak to join in the next game, and I admit my ping was bad that game. I was made o spec fo rsomeone who actualli left, and then i was banned?

Sorry ryebone i was annoyed at first.

[cipso]

He wasn't ping kicked nor got disconnected during this time. He also didn't leave the game. See my post about this specific ban situation: http://altitudegame.com/forums/showthread.php?p=88069#post88069

[nobodyhome]

The problem with posts like this is that they almost never reveal the full history. According to our notes, you have been banned FIVE times in the past. The two (there's only friggin two!) people who have been banned for more times than that are pretty much going to permabanned for the next minor mistake they take.

Since you have displayed bannable behavior five times in the past you are on a very very short leash, and anything bad you do (such as speccing a game for a full 60 seconds, as was described in the posts about you in the other thread) for whatever reason will result in a lengthy ban. If you had not displayed bad behavior in the past resulting in five bans (which like I said, only three people have managed to do without getting permabanned), then we would've likely just let this slide, or at most given you a 2 day. People always seem to mistake these bans as isolated incidents but you have to consider the entire history.

[tgleaf]

While it's fine to complain about a ban or ask for a repeal, everyone needs to realize that admins do investigate these matters fully. I'm not saying admins are perfect or that we don't do things based on emotion some times, but from memory the half a dozen times that a player has started a thread with "I shouldn't have been banned," the full details that emerged showed that the player in fact had done something bannable, and that often the actual events had been much worse than what the player had led everyone to believe (e.g. "Why was I banned for high ping?").

Stalin, if you're going to start a thread about a ban complaint, at least have the decency to be honest. You easily could have said that ssd asked you to spec several times for high pings but that you refused and you don't think you should be banned. The way you approached this was misleading and unfortunate. And yes, ban history has a lot to do with how lenient (or not) we are.

[cipso]

People always seem to mistake these bans as isolated incidents but you have to consider the entire history.

I can agree with that. I haven't noticed stalin exhibit same behavior before nor did I know about his earlier bans.

I got angry about this ban and posted on ladder admin forum because the reason for ban was communicated as "I asked him to spec for bad ping, he refused, so I banned him for 90 days". *That* looked as power admin abuse to me.

[ryebone]

From what I hear, this is how the sequence of important events goes:

-you're lagging
-SSD requests you spec next game
-you join next game
-you get banned

I know we don't have an explicit rule against playing while lagging, and our guidelines are a bit unclear, but please use some common sense. The kicker here is disregarding an admin's orders. That will get you banned every single time without sympathy.

Also, I don't get to do this much, but since you have such an extensive ban history I thought it'd be nice to revisit them. Here's a short, summarized version (date of ban, reason for ban, length of ban)

july 12- leaving midgame, 2 days
sept 3- leaving midgame, 10 days
sept 24- leaving midgame, 10 days
oct 14- leaving midgame, 10 days
oct 27- leaving midgame, 15 days

That's five bans for the same exact reason. I'd also like to point out that they were given by three different admins, so no admin bias exists. Putting it all together, yes, a 90day ban for playing while lagging is excessive. But as SSD and nobo have pointed out, we look at the entire resume when making our decisions. It sucks for you, but your history has very little redeeming qualities to it.

[sunshineduck]

I can agree with that. I haven't noticed stalin exhibit same behavior before nor did I know about his earlier bans.

I got angry about this ban and posted on ladder admin forum because the reason for ban was communicated as "I asked him to spec for bad ping, he refused, so I banned him for 90 days". *That* looked as power admin abuse to me.

I would like to apologize for how I acted while explaining this issue in the ladder server - I was in a game and trying to convey the point as fast as I could so I could continue to play. We don't publicly post ban histories so there's no way you could have known about his past history, and your anger is perfectly understandable considering the circumstances and how poorly I handled the aftermath of the ban.

[cipso]

I would like to apologize for how I acted while explaining this issue in the ladder server - I was in a game and trying to convey the point as fast as I could so I could continue to play. We don't publicly post ban histories so there's no way you could have known about his past history, and your anger is perfectly understandable considering the circumstances and how poorly I handled the aftermath of the ban.

My apologies for overreacting and using strong language towards you. I should have checked all facts first before coming to fast conclusions.

[Premier Stalin]

I never even realised SSD was asking me to sit, only Dragon, and even then, in the first game I was not lagging. As cipso said, I was not ping kicked once.

I was out for like 60 secs at start, came straight back

In regards to previous bans, Im sorry but there is a thing called real life. Not once have I joined KNOWING I would have to leave soon, and you can ask others eg woken i think was there, that I will just sit/ not play if i think I may have to go, as I DO NOT WANT TO GET BANNED AGAIN.

Im sorry, but there needs to be some other way on ladder to Sub in players or something, as at the moment getting banned, when it is completely unintentional, is just ridiculous.

[leggomyeggo]

in the first game I was not lagging. As cipso said, I was not ping kicked once.

Just to chime in a little bit here: I was there and you really were lagging, lagging so bad that your passes went through our players and also you picked up the ball, lagged your way to the goal and scored twice against us..

[Premier Stalin]

By quoting eminem in your info, I reserve the right to completely ignore everything you say. Also it was on a max ping server. If it is totally unexceptable to play with a steady 120 ping, and the odd spike, change the ping limit to about 50. Problem solved. You also then lose almost every euro player on ladder. Ban them all imo. ****ing laggers.

Also leggo, how bout u try to be less of a dick, and **** off.

[leggomyeggo]

By quoting eminem in your info, I reserve the right to completely ignore everything you say. Also it was on a max ping server. If it is totally unexceptable to play with a steady 120 ping, and the odd spike, change the ping limit to about 50. Problem solved. You also then lose almost every euro player on ladder. Ban them all imo. ****ing laggers.

Also leggo, how bout u try to be less of a dick, and **** off.

Uhh, I'm kind of at a loss of words here.. I was just saying that you were lagging so that people know the truth from a player that was there. And you were spiking a bit which really isn't steady 120. Also, I believe it was more around 140-150, if I recall. If it were just steady 120, we wouldn't be having this problem..

Also, on a sidenote: what's wrong with Eminem?

[Premier Stalin]

The admins kno exactly what happened, doesn't make it right but whatever. I never claimed something other than the truth, but the reason I am banned is ridiculous.U putting in Ur highly useful information helps none and pisses me off.

[mikesol]

Premier-

It seems like you are being much more of a dick in this situation than leggo. I'm not sure how anything he said was mean. He simply stated you were lagging a ton. You might not agree with it - but it sounds like it was true.

Real life happens sure. There are some extreme circumstances that require players to leave. However, these should be few and far between. There are players in ladder who have played over 1000 games and have been banned ZERO times. You've played 240 games and have been banned 6 times and warned numerous other times. If you can't predict real life well enough to know when you have to leave or whatnot then you should not be playing ladder.

Spectating for 60 seconds is unacceptable and should not be tossed away lightly.

Aside from that - people can spike without being ping kicked from a server. It happens all the time and is infuriating. Can you not see how throwing balls through people or teleporting over the map to score goals is unfair?

I admit - you could have missed SSD saying that you need to spectate next game or be banned. You could have not noticed you were lagging. You may have had really good reasons for leaving in the past. I even admit that 90 days might be a harsh ban.

Despite all of those things - am I inclined to unban you or reduce your time? Not really. You seem to be overly hostile to both admins and players alike. While I would have originally argued for your ban to be reduced I'm not sure I want to after seeing the way you are acting.

Please remember that at the end of the day we are doing this for the community. We don't get paid. We don't get any benefit from this. In fact it's often tiresome and annoying getting spammed, insulted, etc when people break the rules.

=======

tl;dr

The fact of the matter is - you've been banned 6 times so far. Your aggressiveness and self-entitlement you are showing does not make it likely for your ban to be reduced. Consider yourself lucky. There are players who have been permanently banned by this point. Maybe if we feel like something has changed we will shorten the ban in the future - but if you keep acting like you are I doubt that.

[sunshineduck]

He didn't miss me telling him to spectate.

During the game:

[16:13] [FRO]Dragon: lag
[16:13] WeakSauce(mled): OMG
[16:13] AH| {PM} shampoo!: gj
[16:13] =P=: lag oO
[16:13] WeakSauce(mled): premier wtf
[16:13] !| Premier |RA|: die
[16:14] !| Premier |RA|: score
[16:14] !| Premier |RA|: win
[16:14] WeakSauce(mled): no u lag retard
[16:14] ///tVo.unbreakable: hahahah
[16:14] !| Premier |RA|: nope
[16:14] ///tVo.unbreakable: yea you do
[16:14] !| Premier |RA|: i dont tho
[16:14] AH| LeggoMyEggo: yea u do
[16:14] [FRO]Dragon: u suck then
[16:14] [FRO]Dragon: lol
[16:14] [FRO]sunshineflick: premier dont play next game
[16:14] [FRO]sunshineflick: u lag
[16:14] !| Premier |RA|: im like steady 120
[16:14] !| Premier |RA|: wtf
[16:14] [Team] {arr}Cipso: i guess he lags as much as me
[16:14] [Team] AH| LeggoMyEggo: lol

In the lobby after the game:

[16:16] [FRO]sunshineflick: premier
[16:16] [FRO]sunshineflick: spec
[16:16] ///tVo.unbreakable: lol
[16:16] !| Premier |RA|: im not lagging
[16:16] Vote passed with 93% yes votes.
> custom start_random
[16:16] [Server] Starting ladder game...
[16:16] [Server] Tournament started. Only players currently on a team will be allowed to spawn.
[16:16] Walls: normal
[16:16] Map: ball_core
[16:17] {arr}Cipso: nice, it worked!
[16:17] [FRO]sunshineflick: premier
[16:17] [FRO]sunshineflick: ..
[16:17] AH| LeggoMyEggo: yes, yes you are premier
[16:17] !| Premier |RA|: im not lagging
[16:17] [FRO]sunshineflick: you lagged so hard last game
[16:17] !| Premier |RA|: no
[16:17] [FRO]sunshineflick: lol
[16:17] [FRO]sunshineflick: i saw it
[16:17] WeakSauce(mled): >.> YES U ARE
[16:17] AH| LeggoMyEggo: it's just not on your screen because ur the one lagging
[16:17] !| Premier |RA|: leggo
[16:17] !| Premier |RA|: im not retarded
[16:18] AH| LeggoMyEggo: then why do u keep saying you don't have lag when you do
[16:18] {arr}Sunaku: then stop playing a randa with a bomber skin Permier

[ryebone]

[16:18] {arr}Sunaku: then stop playing a randa with a bomber skin Permier

LOL people still use skins?

So back to the point, sorry Premier, I don't think you're getting out of this one.

[Sunaku]

LOL people still use skins?

So back to the point, sorry Premier, I don't think you're getting out of this one.
No idea, I disabled them a long time ago but those spy skins could be fun. Just to give my two cents no one cares about : my joke was just a joke and he didn't lag that bad. He really had a steady ping and only a few spikes, but it happened that he got the ball during those few spikes which led to lag goals in the first game.

[blln4lyf]

Give him 20-30 days imo. He clearly needs to learn about how to respect the ladder system more, but from everything I read from these 2 threads, even with his history, 90 days is just insane. You could even let him off now and tell him that the next issue gets him perma'd since he has such an extensive history but I really fail to see how given his few spikes(and otherwise steady 140-150 ping) he deserves 90 days.

[elxir]

i'm the biggest d-bag ever and i don't get banned

you have to be straight dumb to get banned

[CCN]

I never even realised SSD was asking me to sit
Reminds me strongly of when noobs come in, are told something, get it repeated a coupla time and don't listen at all. Then when the kick is launched they go what? What did I do?

Yeah, thats what this brings my mind and what I relate it to. I wasn't there so without further details I can't sympathize at all.

Edit: Read SSD's log, Even more bitter taste that he lied about not reading SSD's messages when clearly responding to them.

[Premier Stalin]

Ok, sorry for being angry last night. I guess ill be back for sometime around season 2.

Also, I did not think flick was duck. Those fro tags are confusing :P. I also Apologise to leggo, sorry, I was pissed off. I guess ill just go play black ops now.

[evilarsenal]

don't come back please, u only cause problems

[Premier Stalin]

People like you are precisely the reason I probably won't.

Also ccn, had I known I was being asked not to join by a ladder admin, even if I thought I wasnt lagging, I wuda sat.

[Danielle]

Disregarding the previous problem that ladder admins have had with premier, It's unfair to ban someone for lagging.

The server is US based, Stalin is from UK.

I also lag and spike sometimes, but again, I am also from UK. I have not been banned for lagging, as it's unfair to do so....
CCN lags with his asianping....again, he doesn't get banned.
When we realise we're lagging too bad to play, we generally sit next game, however you can see that Stalin thought his ping was sorted..

If SSD stated who he was, Stalin may have listened.
You have to remember that the past few days, everyone has become [FRO]Sunshinesomething, so it's hard to tell.
It's not really fair to just ASSUME he knew who was asking him not to play.

[Boko]

http://img602.imageshack.us/img602/8494/popcorn.gif

I enjoyed reading this topic, much drama.

And Premier, from what I see you should be permabanned for all the leaves already.

[Premier Stalin]

The fact is I havent, mainly cos most of the people who banned me know I really didnt want to leave. This shudnt mean I am banned for lagging.

[Stormich]

EDIT: I jumped to post too fast, read the whole thing, still think ban is fair. If multiple people asked you to sit for lagging and disrupting their ladder experience not much to say

[Evan20000]

I think what seals your fate is that you purposely omitted information in this thread to make you look innocent.

[Premier Stalin]

What information did I ommit? I did not know that sunshineFLICK was sunshineDUCK.

And Storm I wasnt even being kicked or anything.

[Evan20000]

You said you didn't even see the message when you clearly responded to it. You're right, that's not ommiting information, that is outright lying.

[Danielle]

What he said was he didn't see SSD ask him.
In his mind, this was correct, as he didn't know Flick was Duck.
Herp derp Sin, herp derp.

GB2 Black Ops.

[Evan20000]

Then this proves there should be some sort of marker next to admins names like suggested a while ago.

Also, I just got off black ops after going 62-2 in TDM. Pretty chill.

P.S. Get on mumble.

[Premier Stalin]

I said I did not remember SSD asking me.

[Boko]

You can twist and turn about not wanting to leave and whatnot, but if you HAVE to leave so often I don't think you should play ladder either.

[Wok3N^]

Well premier, I don't think it was only the lag that caused the ban, it was also that you specced in mid game which initiated duck's motive to ban you. I did see you spike in the ball game before where you pretty much anchored with the ball and scored a goal, twice. However, I do believe that you did not see yourself spike or see your ping shoot up because I had a spiking problem once and the only evidence I had was from other people telling me. Even though I do as a witness understand your confusion, I can't argue with the admins because of your history.

[Stormich]

How does it matter who asks you to sit? If multiple people say you lag, you lag. Also spikers are worse than steady state laggers. And no admins, shouldn't be marked. It works best sometimes if people don't know that you're an admin, that way you get to feel great for foiling people trying to escape their bans :D

[Premier Stalin]

I was gone for like 45 secs or something right at start. That's nothing I mean I've had longer map downloads than that. Also storm it wasnt loudsa people, it was like 2 moaning at me for something I didn't even think was happening.

Will history reset ladder 2? I seriously need to start again :(

[ryebone]

I was gone for like 45 secs or something right at start. That's nothing I mean I've had longer map downloads than that. Also storm it wasnt loudsa people, it was like 2 moaning at me for something I didn't even think was happening.

Will history reset ladder 2? I seriously need to start again :(


It's apparent you have an issue with selective hearing. Mike has already stated that going afk for 60 seconds is unacceptable. SSD's chatlog clearly shows SIX people (dragon, mled, =p=, unbreak, leggo, ssd) commenting on your lag. Make that seven, if I knew what cipso's lag normally is. All you're doing is digging a bigger hole for yourself.

And again, the harshness of the ban is not solely predicated this incident alone. It's based on your entire history of bans. Claiming that you never play when you know you have to leave is ridiculous: NO ONE should be playing under those circumstances. The fact is, you still left. MULTIPLE times.

There's really not much more to discuss.

[Premier Stalin]

Look I really can't be bothered anymore to argue this anymore. The fact is, however, is that I was banned for lagging, previous bans or not. I didn't think I was lagging, more that people were annoyed I scored. However in the next game, when I started to noticably lag, I said I would not play until it was normal again, and I then specced for Unbreak when someone did leave.

Ill sit this ban out, I really am not trying to create some massive heated argument, or annoy the admins, but the premises on which the ban was based were ridiculous.

Quoting other bans, I have been banned in the past for being "bad" and needing time to improve, and I think this actually happened twice. cough*ingbo*cough.

This bull**** coming form the admins has led to not just me being banned, but recieving a 90 day one for a record that has been ruined by admins in the past.

[tgleaf]

Look I really can't be bothered anymore to argue this anymore. The fact is, however, is that I was banned for lagging, previous bans or not. I didn't think I was lagging, more that people were annoyed I scored. However in the next game, when I started to noticably lag, I said I would not play until it was normal again, and I then specced for Unbreak when someone did leave.

Ill sit this ban out, I really am not trying to create some massive heated argument, or annoy the admins, but the premises on which the ban was based were ridiculous.

Quoting other bans, I have been banned in the past for being "bad" and needing time to improve, and I think this actually happened twice. cough*ingbo*cough.

This bull**** coming form the admins has led to not just me being banned, but recieving a 90 day one for a record that has been ruined by admins in the past.

This pretty much sums it up: http://altitudegame.com/forums/showpost.php?p=88095&postcount=13.

I love playing ladder but I haven't played in months because I know that I may have to leave a game at any minute. Instead of subjecting other players to that, I just don't play ladder. If you've been banned multiple times for leaving mid-game -- whether or not you intentionally did -- you are creating a negative experience for other players. It's selfish.

And the fact that you are either not paying attention to the in-game chat or deciding that everyone else is wrong is also a selfish way to play. You're lucky to have not been banned sooner. [Edit: I've also added a suggestion (http://altitudegame.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5180) that admins be noted on the tab screen so that it's clear who is asking; this still doesn't explain away all of your previous bans.]

I'm closing this thread because all that needs to be said about this incident has been said.