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yankinlk
04-13-2011, 11:46 AM
I'm new to ladder and I know my record speaks for itself - but I wanted to offer a suggestion anyways, please don't flame me.

Would it be possible to offer a brief pause at the start of a ladder match to allow a team to get setup. Currently all I see is, "[TEAM]Good team, imo" or "[expletive] ffs i have yank again". Then the match kicks off and there is rarely a leader that steps up to order plane configs.

I was thinking maybe a simple pause for 5 seconds... a menu might pop up that offers positions... like :

(1)heavy
(2)light
(3)utility

... and each player can make a choice to signify what they plan on playing for the game. The choice is optional, nothing happens if you dont select a position and you obviously aren't forced to stick to your choice.

I realize you could simply look at the planes that each person chooses at the start and adjust your own choice without any system, but that isnt perfect as people might change several times, affecting other peoples choices as well.

I thought this might encourage a bit of cooperation from players at the start of the match and hopefully make games a little better/more competitive.

Tekn0
04-13-2011, 12:11 PM
This is what the initial spawn time in Ladder is increased than the default.

But usually 1 or 2 people in each team join only at the very last or even after the game starts. So it's usually not easy to tell what planes/setup they will be playing.

After playing over 300 ladder games I'm familiar with many of the plane setups people play when I play ladder. So I have a rough idea of who plays what. Like Leadfoot almost always plays Randa, and if I get Leadfoot and Shmo in my team, I usually go the EMP loopy route even though my best plane is Randa, i'd rather win than get into confrontations on it.

The most irritating part of ladder for me is when people change planes suddenly in-game without informing their team. Like a Whale going loopy and we have 3 loopies... What the heck? Switches like Randa->Loopy is usually okay but heavies to light are not.

I'd much rather have Kanteh on my team who sticks to one plane than someone who changes plane every 2 or 3 spawns.

While I appreciate the idea, and I'm totally in support of having balanced plane compositions, I don't think this will work.

yankinlk
04-13-2011, 02:00 PM
The most irritating part of ladder for me is when people change planes suddenly in-game without informing their team. Like a Whale going loopy and we have 3 loopies... What the heck? Switches like Randa->Loopy is usually okay but heavies to light are not.

I'd much rather have Kanteh on my team who sticks to one plane than someone who changes plane every 2 or 3 spawns.
.

That was the reason I thought this might help stop people from changing several times unless it was necessary.

To refine the idea a bit... After a user made a choice, the name of the user could be seen against the "bucket". Also we would be able to see the other teams choices at the same time. So we would have an idea of the matchups before a game.

elxir
04-13-2011, 07:23 PM
this is basically what captain's ladder used to be...captain would pick you and tell you exactly what plane to play.

worked great for team synergy but it took FOREVER. also, it requires the player to know what everyone's best plane is.

there's no point in having someone whale if they absolutely suck at whale, regardless of how badly your team needs it.

i don't think this is a great idea for the current incarnation of ladder, largely for the reason listed above. it's largely on the individual players to (1) recognize a deficiency in plane composition, and (2) have the ability to fill that hole.

ordering someone to change to plane X only works if you know they are good with that plane, and if they actually want to play it.

elxir
04-13-2011, 07:24 PM
like for example i have no idea what your best plane is - i've seen you play loopy...if you are struggling in ladder, i would tell you to do what i tell all newer players to do...play acid. there is no easier way to help a team.

tgleaf
04-13-2011, 07:44 PM
Agree, this should not be implemented. Ladder players either understand team composition and will make the switch when needed, understand team composition and refuse to make the switch when needed, or have no idea what's going on ("4 DFs and two rev biplanes? Awesome!")

As elixir or elxir or whatever his name is said, Captains' games and clan matches are the place for pre-game strategy discussions. It doesn't really work in Ladder and having a signifying stat would just further frustrate those of us who ask players to switch and get denied ("So you saw that we were too light and STILL wouldn't switch @#$^&%$#!!!").


Don't mind me, I'm not really here. Edit: I didn't see that Acid remark until after I posted. Ouch.

CCN
04-14-2011, 07:55 AM
Too many noobs in ladder. Ladder is about carrying your team while reducing the damage the bad players do.

elxir
04-14-2011, 08:37 AM
lol leaf

trolled and counter-trolled

SendMoreCops
04-14-2011, 11:45 AM
I don't see any easy solution to the 'problem'. I guess part of what gets peeps higher ranks in ladder is the very fact that they can alter (either by making or by following orders/suggestions) on team composition/setups pre & in-game.
Most players say nothing pre-game and some not until afterwards (but always politely ;)).

I can only imagine that the more people play and become familiar with others best setups/ability then the quicker team changes will be made either through quick team discussions or just making a choice on your own setup pregame based on what you know of your teammates.

yankinlk
04-14-2011, 02:26 PM
Fair enuff. Idea is shot down. Back to reading guides for me.

Karl
04-14-2011, 07:21 PM
Now that I'm playing losing on the ladder lately I noticed this same problem... During the warmup timer I sit there watching the scoreboard to see what people are picking and this seems ok during warmup but once the game gets going it's really hard to glance at the scoreboard in the 2 seconds you're dead and see the plane balance of your team. I'm wondering if the plane icons should be shown in the scoreboard. I find it difficult to glance at the red perks and see my teams composition in 2 seconds. Where as I could easily see 3 loopy, 2 explo and 1 biplane icons... Does anyone else feel this way or am I just a noob that needs to get better at recognizing the red perk icons?

Ribilla
04-14-2011, 07:26 PM
I don't see this as a huge problem (probably because I am only any good at one plane), in ball team comp doesn't matter that much (provided you have enough lights/heavies) and in TBD you have loads of time every death to look at the scoreboard. Saying that, extra icons wouldn't hurt.

elxir
04-14-2011, 07:33 PM
Now that I'm playing losing on the ladder lately I noticed this same problem... During the warmup timer I sit there watching the scoreboard to see what people are picking and this seems ok during warmup but once the game gets going it's really hard to glance at the scoreboard in the 2 seconds you're dead and see the plane balance of your team. I'm wondering if the plane icons should be shown in the scoreboard. I find it difficult to glance at the red perks and see my teams composition in 2 seconds. Where as I could easily see 3 loopy, 2 explo and 1 biplane icons... Does anyone else feel this way or am I just a noob that needs to get better at recognizing the red perk icons?


the only way a suggestion like this will be helpful beyond basic plane recognition is if you know what every player on your team is good at it, and that just takes time

like if i notice we have 3 mirandas on our team or something i will just say "less randa" and hope that the least experienced one will be gracious enough to switch...that's about the extent of strategy that can be employed

ETA: actually i don't think it would be instructive at all...showing the plane icon is nice, but for miranda, explodet, and loopy, the actual perk composition is critical to how that plane will affect the game, and you need to know for example that it is a time anchor and not a laser (teammate AND enemy need this)

XX1
04-14-2011, 08:09 PM
I'm new to ladder and I know my record speaks for itself - but I wanted to offer a suggestion anyways, please don't flame me.

Would it be possible to offer a brief pause at the start of a ladder match to allow a team to get setup. Currently all I see is, "[TEAM]Good team, imo" or "[expletive] ffs i have yank again". Then the match kicks off and there is rarely a leader that steps up to order plane configs.

I was thinking maybe a simple pause for 5 seconds... a menu might pop up that offers positions... like :

(1)heavy
(2)light
(3)utility

... and each player can make a choice to signify what they plan on playing for the game. The choice is optional, nothing happens if you dont select a position and you obviously aren't forced to stick to your choice.

I realize you could simply look at the planes that each person chooses at the start and adjust your own choice without any system, but that isnt perfect as people might change several times, affecting other peoples choices as well.

I thought this might encourage a bit of cooperation from players at the start of the match and hopefully make games a little better/more competitive.

Well one immediate thing i done when realized altitude had forums....was read the strategy guides section. It is well, the place with the least amount of trolling and you can learn how to play there! Here are also some fun/lolworthy guides by elixir and his views on the ball game mode:

Elixir Guide to Dumb Bombs: http://altitudegame.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5747
His Guide to biplane ( i to disagree with some of the information in this thread, due to his biast approach to other perks :\) http://altitudegame.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4155
I think he was mad in this one. http://altitudegame.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3933

But personally i recommend 1 explodet 2 bomber 2 loopy 1 miranda. (mirandas are just too much to deal with to have any more just in opinion.)
Good luck, it takes time to get in this game please be patient with it.

Tekn0
04-14-2011, 08:32 PM
Now that I'm playing losing on the ladder lately I noticed this same problem... During the warmup timer I sit there watching the scoreboard to see what people are picking and this seems ok during warmup but once the game gets going it's really hard to glance at the scoreboard in the 2 seconds you're dead and see the plane balance of your team. I'm wondering if the plane icons should be shown in the scoreboard. I find it difficult to glance at the red perks and see my teams composition in 2 seconds. Where as I could easily see 3 loopy, 2 explo and 1 biplane icons... Does anyone else feel this way or am I just a noob that needs to get better at recognizing the red perk icons?

I've got used to it, but it takes some time getting used but indicating plane icons can definitely not hurt if you can squeeze it into that space.

undertheinfluence
04-15-2011, 06:01 AM
I suppose it depends for each person... I can tell my team's setup quite quickly as they are spawning and during play I rarely check scoreboard to see what planes people are playing because as i see each person flying around, I just add them all together and get an over all mental picture of our setup. I also do this for the enemy team... just saying. Anyway, that is just how i do it, and i don't know if anyone else does something similar.

nobodyhome
04-15-2011, 06:48 AM
Now that I'm playing losing on the ladder lately I noticed this same problem... During the warmup timer I sit there watching the scoreboard to see what people are picking and this seems ok during warmup but once the game gets going it's really hard to glance at the scoreboard in the 2 seconds you're dead and see the plane balance of your team. I'm wondering if the plane icons should be shown in the scoreboard. I find it difficult to glance at the red perks and see my teams composition in 2 seconds. Where as I could easily see 3 loopy, 2 explo and 1 biplane icons... Does anyone else feel this way or am I just a noob that needs to get better at recognizing the red perk icons?


That might help a bit. Lately I've found myself abiding by the rule that if my team oesn't already have two explos, I should go explo myself. When it's all thermos it's easy to tell but when it's a mix of thermos and remotes and directors then I have to do a double take to count how many explos there actually are. With practice I can do it within 1-2 seconds but if there were icons then it'd be instant.

Mt.Vesuvius
04-15-2011, 01:33 PM
Usually I can tab and take a quick glance at the perks at the start of the round, even if it takes an extra second of non-spawning it's worth it because nothing happens in the first 10~ or so seconds of the game. Also, the first time you die, you have about five or ten seconds to check and possibly switch planes.. I think it's fine as it is but i just hate how long the spawn is for tbd.