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View Full Version : I want less perks for demo players....(followed by demo rant)


as red as black
08-12-2009, 04:21 AM
I don't know the exact numbers....but I'd say at least 35% (prob more) of players are demo users. Thus, 35% are rubber hull users.

As an aspiring whale (explo), nothing pisses me off more when my thermo/mines perk combo is incapable of killing these rubber bastards. Matches teeming with demo scum inhibit my explo's weaponry.

As demos and a large chunk of the altitude population, do they deserve a perk which makes life harder for paying explo users? It would be one thing if it took like only one extra explo mine or something to bring them down...fine. But, they don't die. They just flop around on the ground after being mined or thermo'd. As demo users, I don't think they need perks other than basic weaponry. I understand that unlockable perks are a key part of gameplay....so maybe just let them unlock turbo and bomber. I just don't like that 35% of the population take extra effort to be killed by explo....for free.

--------------(cue demo rant)----------------------------------------

Am I the only one who sees level 60 demos and demos in tourneys as kinda abusing the demo? The demo should be used to test whether or not you like a game....not as actually gameplay.

The fact that demo users can reach the pinnacle of altitude, level 60, is pretty absurd. That's the peak of registered success. Shouldn't it be reserved for paying customers? It would make level 60 a hell of a lot more respectable. Also, if a person has played for free the necessary amount of time to reach level 60, they've obviously developed good opinions of the game and enjoy it. Why should they be allowed to still abuse the system? Should there be a time cap to demo use?

Demo users should be banned from tourneys. Abuse of the free trial. If they want to enjoy the greatest part about altitude, the organized competitions, they should pay up.

I do not want to lose these demo users though. I just want to convert them. I think many demos would buy the game if the demo was canceled. I think many would pay $1-5 to continue their use of demo gameplay if a cap on demo use is implemented. Also, what about a week of free altitude? I'm sure that'll convert some more demos. It wouldn't cost anything. I would also like to end the paragraph on this note: Losing a demo costs nothing, gaining a customer nets $20.

I just don't like seeing people abuse the point of a demonstration....yes...a demonstration....that's what a demo is....a watered down gameplay that should only be used to the point of testing the enjoyability of a game. Not as gameplay itself. Developers can do whatever they want, chances are, i won't care and I'll still play. Not my business how they choose to run business. This is simply my opinion.

want to bring up this issue and see what others think.

as red as black
08-12-2009, 04:24 AM
btw, I'm still formulating my opinions on this subject. They are subject to change.

Kuja900
08-12-2009, 04:32 AM
Without demo players the teams in the tourney would be cut in half and no one wants that + whales can get more than enough kills even with a lot of rubber hull users around.

Texas
08-12-2009, 04:42 AM
Without demo players the teams in the tourney would be cut in half and no one wants that + whales can get more than enough kills even with a lot of rubber hull users around.

excuse me ? got any problem with whales ? we're about to extinct .. we need your support b**ch :D

EDIT: image removed - funny but disgusting

AIDs
08-12-2009, 05:10 AM
Word cannot express my disgust with that pic Tex.

Also, I agree with all of that. A demo IS supposed to be a taste of what actual gameplay is. In altitude you are capable of reaching the higher echelon of the community without buying it. Maybe we could put at cap on what level you can reach as a demo user? Limit the number of times you can play the game? Restrict the number of servers a demo player can get into? There are endless ways we could do this.

Personally, I like the server restriction option. I mean, who WOULDN'T want to try out Stacks volleyball game, or the escape maps on the fun server.

This is speculation---> Maybe most of the demo users are under the age of 18. Most do not have access to credit cards or what-not to actually buy the game.(Unless they ask their parents) This might make them hesitant to actually go ahead and buy it. Unfortunately I don't see a way of getting around this.

as red as black
08-12-2009, 05:24 AM
Without demo players the teams in the tourney would be cut in half and no one wants that + whales can get more than enough kills even with a lot of rubber hull users around.

teams consisting primarily of demo players pretty much fizzled out after the first weekend anyways. Aside from a few demo teams that stuck together (off my head, I can think of none, I'm just inserting this because someone will find an exception) most dropped out and didn't contribute to the tourney anyways.

As for the whales part....i still stand by my hate of rubber hull for demos, but my standing on this has lessened. I was just pissed cuz I was raping **** up with explo earlier this morning, but sucked when I logged on tonight. haha. I blame it on demos.

as red as black
08-12-2009, 05:27 AM
This is speculation---> Maybe most of the demo users are under the age of 18. Most do not have access to credit cards or what-not to actually buy the game.(Unless they ask their parents) This might make them hesitant to actually go ahead and buy it. Unfortunately I don't see a way of getting around this.


agreed. From my experiences, I'd say less than half of all demos are under 18 though and I'm guessing that 99% have access to credit cards.

nobodyhome
08-12-2009, 05:30 AM
i think IT is a notable team in the tournament that is filled with all-demos

Snowsickle
08-12-2009, 05:33 AM
As someone who used to play explodet pretty heavily I've never been a big fan of the implementation of rubberized hull. No other plane in the game has a perk that essentially nullifies its main playstyle. Reduced terrain damage fine, but reduced knockback is insult to injury. The problem here comes from trying to make it a semi-viable perk beyond its status as 'training wheels'. I believe a replacement perk or some alterations would probably do a lot of good.

Vi*
08-12-2009, 05:34 AM
Personally I support MORE perks for demo users. That is, add heavy armor and ultracap. Not only do demo players get addicted to having choice and thus want to buy the game, but they won't all bounce around so much, plus the really cool stuff is still reserved for paid players.

as red as black
08-12-2009, 05:39 AM
Personally I support MORE perks for demo users. That is, add heavy armor and ultracap. Not only do demo players get addicted to having choice and thus want to buy the game, but they won't all bounce around so much, plus the really cool stuff is still reserved for paid players.

Demos continue to play demo because they like the game enough where they are content with a scaled back version. Giving them more perks isn't going to make them buy the game, it is just going to reaffirm their position that they can enjoy the gameplay (in this case, even more) of a free trial.

Golden Bough
08-12-2009, 05:41 AM
I don't have anything against demo-players in tournament play. I do have a problem with certain demo-players attitudes and how/what they contribute to the altitude community. There are a handful of people, who I know are demo-players, that regularly disrupt gameplay. I know, because I mute them. And while their moniker changes, their ping does not—it is like the calling-card of the ass*ole demo user (>999 ping).

Here, in my opinion, is the problem: Without "friends" in the online community, demo-players behave as they wish —fu*k-around, stir up the pot— they leave, change their moniker and then they do it all over again under the guise of some different identity. I, as GoldenBough cannot do these things because my "friends" (as few of you as there are ;)) and the altitude community will know/hear about it: my glorious, rennound, and all-together epic-legacy as GoldenBough would be tainted. I feel the strong sense of community binds me to a certain code-of-conduct, which, I feel demo-players lack.

Without relationships, and accountability, demo-players behave as they wish with no regard for social norms

Here is how I would solve the demo-player problem: Limit their status and prestige:
1. demo players' monikers should all begin with [DEMO]
2. demo players' cannot have 999 ping, ever
3. demo players' exp should not read 60—59 is ok—but it should not show 60. Instead, it should read something to the effect of "inc." (as in incomplete).
4. demo players' should not be afforded the luxury of changing their moniker. Once they pay the $ for the full game, they can change their it.

I think these changes, would stigmatize demo-players as, demo-players (which they should be). Plus, it would make us little-people, who paid for the game, feel better about ourselves.....;)

as red as black
08-12-2009, 05:46 AM
I was thinking that the level cap would be at which they unlock bomber.

gameguard
08-12-2009, 08:20 AM
i support giving heavy armor to demos. Getting rid of rubber would cause all the baddies to quit because they just die to rocks. I agree with snow that it shoudl not have reduced knockback.

Nothing is more annoying then rubber planes flailing around on the floor with a bomb. Then he drops it as he dies when there are like 3 teammates waiting to pick it up.

DiogenesDog
08-12-2009, 09:09 AM
On cutting off demo users entirely: I don't think that would be a good idea. A MP game lives or dies on the size of its community, and the demo players really help add to the server populations, which really helps maintain critical mass and convince new players that the altitude community isn't going to die overnight. And honestly, even with the current numbers I imagine that some people are turned away when they see only 75 ppl online instead of the 10k they see in retail games.

On rubber hull: Yeah, I don't see any reason for the reduced knockback. I guess it salvages it as a possibly useful perk in real games vs real players if you're facing an explodet-heavy team? But meh. I think this does more harm than good.

On level cap: Agree that it'd be nice to cap them at 59, it's just a nice psychological reminder that they can't quite make it all the way. Capping earlier than that is a bad idea imo tho because then they don't get the "OMG YOU UNLOCKED XXX PERK", which I think is a great reminder of all the cool **** they're not getting by playing the gay demo version.

As for adding/removing perks... meh. This is kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Personally, what I think would be ideal is if they got access to 1 more blue/green perk sometime in the future when more registered perks are added. Getting 2 out of 5 perks for free seems pretty weak, but Vi's right that they're missing out on seeing the fun of configuring their planes.

DryBone
08-12-2009, 10:12 AM
I'm one of those demo users and who is under 18 years old or to be exact I'm 15 years old....
Well, since I can't use credit cards and I'm a demo user, I don't really agree of what this topic is saying.

Anyway, as a demo user I really want to buy the game because it ALREADY have all kind of cool stuff and new things demo users don't. It kinda makes me jealous :)
Also if demo users didn't get any rubberized hull, then some demo who have the bomb might easily die from crashing. Which may make the team lose :(

I also agree to what Vi* and Gameguard said.

STACK
08-12-2009, 11:00 AM
Just add a price tag to rubberized, say drop turning and speed by 10% - OR do something with afterburner on rubberized users so the lil bastards cant burn right up off a the floor from a dead stall.

Edit: sloppy handling would make the most sense upon further pondering

tmm3k
08-12-2009, 11:03 AM
its always important to put a rubber on when entering enemy territory

Kuja900
08-12-2009, 11:42 AM
It feels weird talking about rubber hull in a sense that its "too powerful" lol.

Rechtschaffen
08-12-2009, 12:11 PM
Rubber hull should become deactivated when you reach a certain level - it's only for baby users anyway. Experienced users with it can just bounce around stupidly, or even kill you from the ground. This grieves me sorely.

Let demo users who have outgrown rubber hull have a (weakened?) armor perk instead.

tyr
08-12-2009, 12:27 PM
I totally disagree on nerfing demo players even more or changing their name or whatever. The time limit thing is the worst.
I actually feel it's pretty good right now and I would even agree with Vi and GG with the heavy armor and ultracap thing.
The goal of the demo is to let the players see what the game looks like by themselves, for an unlimited amount of time. A time will come, if they play long enough, where they will pay to unlock the rest of the stuff. It's only a matter of time.
I had the same think with a game called Shattered Galaxy, where a free version user would inflict 10% less damage and gain 10% less xp, and some other advanced stuff, and I finally paid for the game because I played it for free for like 2 years because everyone i was playing with was owning me with their 10% more damage. I feel it's pretty much the same thing here.
Leave the demo players alone.

DiogenesDog
08-12-2009, 02:06 PM
On an unrelated note - it's complete ****ing bull**** that Shattered Galaxy and games like it won several IGF grand prizes. Sorry, but a multi-million dollar funded project that appears on store shelves really shouldn't be in the IGF. I'm glad those suckers failed horribly. :)

Jayfourke
08-12-2009, 02:19 PM
FYI, I've been demoing for over 100 hours, playing daily, and having jolly good fun, all with demo.

I'm 19, shock horror, and I did once try to buy the game. For whatever reason, the site wouldn't let me complete the transaction...

So am I gonna get punished for that? All your ideas about removing perks are stupid, they really are. Relying on bouncy hull to protect me in a freefall where I'm shooting up at my opponent is one of my favourite tactics, in the same way that biplanes have rev-thrust of mirandas have bouncing lasers. Every plane's perks allow it to play a certain way.

Also, for the record, if you, as red as black, cannot easily slaughter demo loopies in a whale, then you must really suck. One missile and then a remote mine, that's all it takes. I can only assume that you want, for whatever reason, your kills to be instataneous. Ever heard of the thrill of the chase?

To summarise: the demo setup is fine as it is. Leave it alone.

Blank
08-12-2009, 03:08 PM
Yes, let's nerf rubber hull. Lam should totally start balancing **** based on how well some crappy explodet player handles DEMO LOOPY PLAYERS.

+1 to Vi's idea.

Musicfreak777
08-12-2009, 03:10 PM
question. wat if instead of taking things away from the demo users u just give the paying ones more stuff. i.e. higher than lvl 60.maybe if tehy can come up with new perks (since no1 who paid uses more than half of them and r gud at it: unless ur using random) or things of that nature. If u disagree then let the taunting commence but i played demo 4 a long time and i liked it the way it was. or mayb a server thats help u train or somefin IDK just somefin. leave the demo users alone:P
+1 2 leaving demos alone
Ian

Rechtschaffen
08-12-2009, 04:00 PM
To summarise: the demo setup is fine as it is. Leave it alone.

May I recommend you for your lucid comments.



...


Demo players should be banned from posting in the forum.

Smushface
08-12-2009, 04:12 PM
FYI, I've been demoing for over 100 hours, playing daily, and having jolly good fun, all with demo.

Right. People should just play a game for free for over 100 hours that the developers spent the better part of 2 years working on and would like to see some return on the investment they made.

And not only does this affect the developers, it affects the game. The more time they have to worry about financial ****, the less time they have to work on Altitude, be it development, balance issues, advertising, etc. And I don't wanna hear some sort of half-cocked excuse how buying the game didn't work for you. You punch in a couple of letters and numbers. Learn how to use a card. It's a useful life skill.

Lvl 60 demo players should be hated on. Hard. They're freeloading at the expense of the developers and the player base. And that's horse****.

as red as black
08-12-2009, 04:19 PM
If demo had ultracap and heavy, I don't think I would've bought the game.

I would've been more than happy with loopy, bomber, rubber, turbo, ultra, and heavy.

Giving them more stuff doesn't make them more psyched for having more stuff, it makes them content with only having the demo. (note the touch of bold)

I just want to see more people with the full version. It makes the games more fun when half the people on servers aren't demo loopies or bombers.

DubyaCapumWolfeGee
08-12-2009, 04:34 PM
i agree with Vi, giving them a little more flavor to the game would be nice.

Fatknacker
08-12-2009, 04:58 PM
I purchased Altitude despite the perks and the planes & still only use the Bomber & the Loopy :o.
I believe people deserve a taste of the exquisite banquet thats on offer, but lets not let them pig out at buffet.
Im not sure on what cap we should put on em but 100+ hours is taking the **** a tad.

eth
08-12-2009, 05:06 PM
I suggest giving demo loopies a new and improved rubber hull! This time, rubber hull will even make you bounce from bullets!

Triped
08-12-2009, 05:18 PM
Just put in the new achievements and only let the demos play to 60.

Taking things away from demo players doesn't work. Adding really nice things for paid players only works.

NfoMonkey
08-12-2009, 05:29 PM
as a demo player, NO to the new stuff... let em buy the game, its worth the 20 bucks and even more but just cause i <3 altitude. (and yes i havent bought it, but only because i yet lack a payment method -.-).

ps! i have like 120hrs or something, and only about 15 of em are from playing demo.. so screw you... just in case.

Beagle
08-12-2009, 06:15 PM
The only fair solution is to publicly announce that all demo players are scum.

slip
08-12-2009, 06:43 PM
Wink is holding Best Clan '09 together with Rubber Hull. Pretty sure the money was used to buy food...

As long as were removing things that we do not like, I think the loopy should go. I like shooting it down, but I do not enjoy its company.

Replica
08-12-2009, 07:03 PM
Just put in the new achievements and only let the demos play to 60.

Taking things away from demo players doesn't work. Adding really nice things for paid players only works.

QFT, this sounds as the best plan so far.

wolf'j'max
08-15-2009, 10:20 PM
Personally I support MORE perks for demo users. That is, add heavy armor and ultracap. Not only do demo players get addicted to having choice and thus want to buy the game, but they won't all bounce around so much, plus the really cool stuff is still reserved for paid players.

agreed with that -.-

Carbon
08-15-2009, 10:36 PM
How about instead of taking things away from demo players we give them a chance to try all the planes/perks so that they want to buy the game. Or give the paying players new stuff so buying the game seems more appealing.

A "free weekend" would be a good way to get more people trying the game and more demo players to buy the game. Take a look at TF2, their free weekends bring in LOTS of new players and the sales of the game spike for a week or so after each free weekend.

Nerl).3
08-16-2009, 01:34 AM
The Explodet is arguably the hardest plane for EVERYONE to kill. Tell me: is it fair that the plane that is most tedious to destroy should not have an opponent equally so? In other words, would it be fair to make the Explodet both near invincible to 100% of players AND be able to easily kill 100% of players? So what if Explodet can't kill 35% of players. At LEAST 35% players can't kill Explodet. So in answer to your question: As demos [are] a large chunk of the altitude population, do they deserve a perk which makes life harder for paying explo users? Yes. The fact that demo users can reach the pinnacle of altitude, level 60, is pretty absurd. That's the peak of registered success. Shouldn't it be reserved for paying customers? It would make level 60 a hell of a lot more respectable. I don't know about you, but I never actually look at the levels. I didn't really notice that I hit level 60 until I realized those big level up messages stopped coming up. The only reason I would aim to get to Level 60 would be to gain an extra perk, or an extra plane. But since demo users don't get that, I don't actually care about leveling up. Nothing would change if you stopped us at a lower level.

The demo planes are supposed to be equal to all the other planes. Paying isn't supposed to make you a better player. Paying gives you more chances to become one. Paying gives you more planes and perks, each that come with their own strategies, each that come with their own chance that you might be a master of one of those strategies. It's not absurd that demo users can beat paying players - after all, why can't the payers just use Loopy as well, add their favorite perks, and beat them easily?

As for you need to convert us demo players, then I will say now that I will not ever buy the game. Sorry game makers, I know you worked hard, and I sincerely apologize as well as one can apologize via typing, but: the paid version just isn't worth it. It's pretty much $6 dollars for a plane. The main reason why many people haven't bought the game is that we are kids that don't have credit cards and pay pal accounts. The rest, like me, prefer to spend the little cash we do have on something with many more features. I would also like to end the paragraph on this note: Losing a demo costs you publicity, screenshot takers, map makers, invaluable clan members, game reviews, and future profit. Losing customer is impossible. (unless theres a refund button i don't know about)

Personally, I would lower the price tag to $9.98, then sell off individual planes at $2.50 apiece, with each extra perk priced at 25, while removing the need to level up in order to get planes. Add plenty of new plane specific features - things that don't make it better in battle, but are definitely very fun. Miranda only chat rooms. Explodet only training missions. Biplane only game modes. I'm sure there are betting things then that, but it's all i can come up with one the spot. Encourage plane specific clans. Give paying members a refined, easy to use map creator. Create a couple extra planes - 6, preferably, but it's kinda pushing' it - release 1 every two weeks, with extravagant update headlines, until demo users are burning with envy and need for those fancy new planes. The addition of a Subscription feature, were users can pay a buck a month for the game. Since many people end of finding Altitude addictive, they'll probably decide to just buy the whole game after a perhaps 4 months. You end up with 10 dollars, plus an extra 4. If it takes longer, you may make a lot more than $20 a person. Cap it all of with some advertising (the Facebook thing was a good idea), and you should reap a decent profit from kids and adults alike.

Anyway, whenever I get mine or thermo'd, I usually crash into a wall and die soon after.

gumbyy
08-16-2009, 02:30 AM
As for you need to convert us demo players, then I will say now that I will not ever buy the game. Sorry game makers, I know you worked hard, and I sincerely apologize as well as one can apologize via typing, but: the paid version just isn't worth it. It's pretty much $6 dollars for a plane.

Personally, I would lower the price tag to $9.98, then sell off individual planes at $2.50 apiece, with each extra perk priced at 25, while removing the need to level up in order to get planes.

I guess it depends on your idea of worth. I've played this game for over 200 hours so it works out to about ten cents per hour. Worth it? You bet. I think that anyone who plays for 100 hours or more and says the game isn't "worth it" is just a free loader. If the game wasn't worth it why did you spend 4 days worth of play time playing this game?

The idea to sell planes and perks individually (?!?!?!) is ridiculous. As you said, many of the players are kids without access to credit cards...so why make them run to mommy or daddy every time they want to buy a new perk?

I think the best idea put forth on this thread so far is to offer the occasional (once every 3 months maybe?) free weekend. Let the demos see what they're missing on about and maybe have an advertising blitz run at the same time to lure in new customers.

Also, I think that "full version only" servers are a good idea. After all, we paid for this game because we like playing. Specifically, we like playing with other good players. If anything this helps demo users because God knows no one would want to upgrade their account if they had to listen to some of the old Alti players talk trash constantly ;)

gameguard
08-16-2009, 03:57 AM
i think a free weekend every once in a while should increase sales. I mean it really cant hurt right?

as red as black
08-16-2009, 04:31 AM
Losing a demo costs you publicity, screenshot takers, map makers, invaluable clan members, game reviews, and future profit. Losing customer is impossible.

You aren't a customer. You haven't bought the game.

You also aren't future profit, as you mentioned somewhere else yourself.

All those things you listed are nice, but overshadowed by the fact that you haven't paid. All the hard work making the game is lost if you don't put money in the developer's pockets. Screenies and publicity and reviews are useless if you paid nothing and just attract more people who pay nothing. Buy the game and be all those things.

Your logic is whack somewhere. Losing potential customers is bad and should be avoided at all costs....but you haven't bought and will never buy the game. ???

as red as black
08-16-2009, 04:32 AM
i think a free weekend every once in a while should increase sales. I mean it really cant hurt right?

^^

That's my best suggestion as well. If only one demo converts, you've still made profit.

ORYLY
08-16-2009, 03:07 PM
Demo players add value the full version. One of my reasons for buying the game was because the demo was implemented so well.

For a multiplayer game, having a sizable population is essential. If you don't reach a certain critical mass, you go into a downward spiral where no one plays because no one plays. The way Altitude handles demo players is a creative way to minimize this problem.

By giving demo players fun, effective and fair options, you boost up the population and make buying the game a safer investment. You ensure that full version players will have people to play with. If demo players were too weak, they'd be discouraged from playing and playing with them them wouldn't be fun at all.

Nerl).3
08-16-2009, 10:15 PM
You aren't a customer. You haven't bought the game.

You also aren't future profit, as you mentioned somewhere else yourself.

All those things you listed are nice, but overshadowed by the fact that you haven't paid. All the hard work making the game is lost if you don't put money in the developer's pockets. Screenies and publicity and reviews are useless if you paid nothing and just attract more people who pay nothing. Buy the game and be all those things.

Your logic is whack somewhere. Losing potential customers is bad and should be avoided at all costs....but you haven't bought and will never buy the game. ???

I tried to prove that non-paying users can attract paying users to altitude. You say it deosn't matter because I didn't buy the game, although the exact point I was trying to make is that nonbuyers attract buyers, and therefor even if they don't buy it themselves, their friends and their blog readers will. Then you continue to reapeat "You didn't buy the game" eight different times in eight different ways, even though it's irrelevant, and exactly the point i already disproved.

I'm assuming you committed a logical fallacy and made the false generalization that "Nerl is a demo user. Nerl will never buy the game. Therefore, all demo users will never buy the game". And through that you made the conclusion that all new users brought in by demo user advertising will also never buy the game and that demo users are not potential customers. I'm not sure what you meant by the overshadowing thing.

I'm going to assume that, as it's (slightly) more logical than what it sounds you you said (Advertising can only be done by paying users? Publicity doesn't matter if I don't give the developers $20? Losing customers isn't bad because I didn't buy the game? None of that makes any sense.). Quite frankly, I can't think of any other logical explanation (besides a. the admins may get mad at me if you put it in their heads that i did't buy the game b. you're being defensive to justify you buying the game c. temporary insanity d. insanity) to why you would attribute everything to me not buying the game. It's unrelated.


I guess it depends on your idea of worth. I've played this game for over 200 hours so it works out to about ten cents per hour. Worth it? You bet. I think that anyone who plays for 100 hours or more and says the game isn't "worth it" is just a free loader. If the game wasn't worth it why did you spend 4 days worth of play time playing this game?

The idea to sell planes and perks individually (?!?!?!) is ridiculous. As you said, many of the players are kids without access to credit cards...so why make them run to mommy or daddy every time they want to buy a new perk?You can't really measure by time, as you are buying planes and perks, not play time. Play time is free. By worth, I mean worth to buy it. For some people, Altitude is worth playing, but not buying.

Thats the entire point selling them individually. Parents hesitate when kids ask them for twenty bucks. They don't when they ask for a quarter.



"Created by two guys just trying to make great multiplayer games" or something. They want cash, but the also want us to have fun. They've made the game in a way where people can play for free, and others can can get extra features. They've done so that anyone who would normally buy a game like this will still buy, without kicking out the hapless poor people, who couldn't if they wanted to.

Smushface
08-16-2009, 10:31 PM
Haha. Parents ask questions when their kids ask for a credit card to charge a quarter.

And as I said, demo players who reach level 60 and have a significant amount of play time are essentially freeloading at the expense of the developers and the paid player base.

And for being that bastard who refuses to buy the game and still flaunt the fact that you've played >100 hours? Nerl is KoS (kick on sight). I'd press 1.

Blank
08-16-2009, 10:40 PM
And as I said, demo players who reach level 60 and have a significant amount of play time are essentially freeloading at the expense of the developers and the paid player base.

If Lam/Karl wanted to make it a time based demo they could of. They didn't which leads me to believe they expected players to be "100 hour+ demo users".

If I actually gave a **** about any of this, I'd put you on some imaginery KoS list for being an asshole.

ORYLY
08-16-2009, 10:43 PM
And as I said, demo players who reach level 60 and have a significant amount of play time are essentially freeloading at the expense of the developers and the paid player base.
Oh no, you've said it twice. Now it's more true than before.

AtomikPi
08-17-2009, 02:17 AM
Somehow I fail to see how paying $20 for a game you've played over a hundred hours of is unreasonable. I pay $40-50 for games pretty regularly, and the vast majority of them I have played far less than altitude.

How is Altitude not "worth it?" Just because the graphics aren't as impressive as some AAA titles? There's already a $30 difference in cost to compensate for that.

@Nerl: I don't disagree that demo users are a good thing. I'm happy to see level 1-59 demoers, but when I see level 60 demoers who have played 100 hours I wonder why they're so cheap that they won't support independent game developers. This thread is not about "is the demo a good idea" it's "is having freeloading 100+ hour demoers a good idea?"

Nerl).3
08-17-2009, 03:30 AM
Whoa wait - are you asking me to pay $20 as charity for their work? :(
As much as I love games, I prefer to give $20 to find the cure for cancer or aids or something of that sort. I only buy games when I really am getting bored. Otherwise I just scout the net for free ones. Truthfully, it feels like the "full game" is just an upgrade. I've got less than 50 smackaroonies altogether. Maybe i'm cheap, but in my eyes, I'd be spending nearly 50% of what I have on an upgrade for a fine game. I get along well without it.

"Haha. Parents ask questions when their kids ask for a credit card to charge a quarter."

Ah, yes, but they'll pay it.
You know, 1 buck per perk, would be better. See, the reason I suggested the whole perk and plane indivual thing was because I really just want an extra perk for my Loopy. I'd be happy to spend a couple of bucks for that.

So maybe $14.89, perhaps, then $4 a plane... then if someone changes their mind... no, more... cause then you would be able to force them to pay over $25 if they change their mind... hmmm subcriptions of $2.76 a month - people would use it as a opportunity to try it out - if they get addicted and buy the game after two months you still rake in more than twenty bucks. And then the people like me and give out some spare change.

Besides, why not let us freeload? Who does it hurt besides the invincible Explodet? Does it hurt the game makers, having extra adoring fans of their programming, art, and animation (and as i said, extra advertisers)? Does it hurt the people who spend $20, to have some formidable Loopy opponents? I've found that most 'freeloaders' who stuck around are pretty good - that being the reason they stayed playing Altitude in the first place (The rest are noobs who just found Altitude.)

nesnl
08-17-2009, 03:36 AM
No matter what the justifications for Demo users for life are, it still sucks to play in a game that is infested with loopy and bomber. It's just as bad if it's any other plane, but that rarely happens as people who bought the game play a variety of planes. Bottom line is that the more Demo players there are the worse the games are because it forces the team composition in the direction of loopy and bomber. On top of that most Demo users are pretty bad at the game and they invest less into getting better.

I see the side of the argument that demo users create a larger looking player base than their actually is and thereby help the game get to critical mass, but in the end that is outweighed by the fact that it just makes the game not fun. Ask any veteran of this game whether playing on the public servers is any fun anymore and I am willing to bet they will tell you that Demo users have ruined the game. So take all of this for what you want and you are welcome to justify to yourself why you don't buy the game, but in the end I really don't care to play any games with you.

DiogenesDog
08-17-2009, 03:45 AM
Whoa wait - are you asking me to pay $20 as charity for their work? :(

No, not as charity, but out of self interest. Even if you have no desire to use the other planes or perks (or at least not enough to justify the $20), on some level there's just the issue that paying users keep the servers alive and the game being patched. And if there's enough of them, it means there will be future games from Nimbly, which would be awesome.

I dunno, I don't think there's some driving moral reason why you should feel obligated to pay, I just have trouble understanding how you wouldn't see the value in doing so. :o

gumbyy
08-17-2009, 03:45 AM
The full game IS an upgrade. That's why you pay for it.

While I disagree with your "pay-per feature" idea (it's just a hassle to charge a dollar here and there, much simpler to pay for it all in one fell swoop) it could be a solution to the "demo problem" (my there are a lot of quotation marks and parenthetical citations in this post!).

The first 150 hours of demo should be free. This is more than enough time to get a feel for the game and get good at the game. Throw in the occasional free weekend and a demo player should know what this game is all about. After 150 hours of play time, you could pay, say, $5 for an additional 100 hours (a nickel an hour, who can't afford that?) but you would still be limited to demo planes / perks. This would at least bring in some revenue to help cover server costs etc. and it would at least force demo players to make some sort of choice about the "worth" of the game.

I think that an unlimited demo is kind of ridiculous. Other programs that have free versions are laden with advertisements (which might not be a bad idea...unlimited free demo but an annoying, advertisement infested UI?) or offer a limited number of uses (you have 48 uses left before you must register a product key blah blah blah).

And might I add if you only have $50 maybe you should spend more time at work and less time blasting your way across cartoon skies ;) (THAT WAS A JOKE BEFORE ANYONE ACCUSES ME OF INCITING A FLAME WAR)

Nerl).3
08-17-2009, 03:54 AM
And might I add if you only have $50 maybe you should spend more time at work and less time blasting your way across cartoon skies ;) (THAT WAS A JOKE BEFORE ANYONE ACCUSES ME OF INCITING A FLAME WAR)
But cartoon skies are fun to blast my way across! :(
Plus i'm just 14. So i don't actually have a job. yet.

Oh, and sorry if anyone feels insulted. I don't mean to try and make you guys feel stupid for paying for the game. It's just that the Altitude full version just isn't worth much for me.

And why do you think Demo players are ruining the servers? The last server I played on had just 2 Loopies (one of them me), out of at least twelve others.

Even if you have no desire to use the other planes or perks (or at least not enough to justify the $20), on some level there's just the issue that paying users keep the servers alive and the game being patched.When I look at this I see myself buying a product. I don't like the product well enough. You're telling me it's reasonable that I should still buy it to keep the company from going bankrupt? I suppose one could see paying $20 for a service - I'll give you money, if you keep making and improving games. But then again, they'll keep making and improving games even if i didn't give $20. And then theres no guaranty that they will make a new game, theres no guaranty that i'll like that game, there's no guaranty my money will actually go to patches or maintaining the server.

I guess it really depends on the person.

Esoteric
08-17-2009, 03:59 AM
The problem is that altitude's playerbase and growth rate is small enough that without demo players there wouldn't be enough population to keep a low skill-level server up to allow new players to actually, you know, play the game rather than just die repeatedly.

And any high-skilled players, demo or no, are nice to have around in the off-hours.

Smushface
08-17-2009, 04:49 AM
I guess I should respond. I also started this like 2 hours ago, left, came back and found several other responses.

@ Blank. I agree. Lam / Karl prob didn't expect to see 100+ hour demo users. They didn't expect a lot of things. That's why patches exist, why they read their forums, and play the game themselves. And they cannot honestly be happy with the current state of the official 7v7 tbd servers, which is almost always 50% lvl 60 demo users. And whenever any of you "old school" players like ferret, snow, and yourself, who have this holier-than-thou mentality call me an asshole, it's more of a blessing. So I guess I should thank you.

And at ORLY. As a holdover from my time spent doing organized debate, any argument that does not have a corresponding counterpoint is assumed to be conceded.

Nerl. Now that I know you are 14, things make a lot more sense. You don't understand concepts like the Freeloader / Public Radio problem. But from what I can see, it has been spelled out. And yes. Demo users have almost completely ruined the official altitude TBD servers.

Now for some constructive discussion. I can see the necessity for demo players but I am totally against giving them an unlimited amount of playtime. This is what I think (which is basically a hybrid of what everyone has said)
1) Keep the current demo build as is.
2) Have a trial full version for demo users say one weekend of the month.
3) Cap demo playtime at something like 100 hours, then give demo players something like 5 hours of free, bonus playtime with the full, paid version. And then cut them off. Hopefully they'll buy the game.

Kuja900
08-17-2009, 04:51 AM
How can you cut off demo users? Cant they just make another demo account?

Smushface
08-17-2009, 05:04 AM
It'd be a problem. The best way to do it would limit it to one demo account per e-mail address. You could also try to limit it to one use per computer. I guess limiting it by IP address would be too invasive and not that effective. But forcing people to have to re-register, go to different e-mails, or have any sort of hindrance to making a repeat demo account will hopefully get the exasperated enough to buy the game.

edit: In no way am I a tech guy. Someone with more experience in the field would have to put in their two cents. The e-mail system isn't full proof. I think I have 5 e-mail accounts so far just for the sake of promotions. Poor Einstein's Bagels.

gumbyy
08-17-2009, 05:11 AM
At my University they limit access to the campus internet network by making you register your MAC Address. No, it has nothing to do with having an Apple computer but it is a unique number linked to your computer. This could be done to prevent people from making tons of demo accounts and, incidentally, it would make it hard for people to make annoying troll accounts.

Blank
08-17-2009, 03:39 PM
@ Blank. I agree. Lam / Karl prob didn't expect to see 100+ hour demo users. They didn't expect a lot of things. That's why patches exist, why they read their forums, and play the game themselves. And they cannot honestly be happy with the current state of the official 7v7 tbd servers, which is almost always 50% lvl 60 demo users. And whenever any of you "old school" players like ferret, snow, and yourself, who have this holier-than-thou mentality call me an asshole, it's more of a blessing. So I guess I should thank you.

Blah blah blah. My favorite part of your whole whine fest is when you call me Holier-than-thou and then later call all demo users the downfall of Altitude and freeloaders, despite them using the demo *exactly as intended*.

You can argue till you're blue in the face how stupid an unlimited timed demo is, but you can't fault people for using it as intended.

PS, Shyney is a homo for not buying this game.

Nerl).3
08-17-2009, 11:06 PM
I said this before, but I guess i'll have to elaborate: I saw something on the Altitude screen. It said that Altitude was made by "two guys just trying to make great multiplayer games". Maybe they said that because it sounded better than "two guys trying to take your money", or maybe they were telling most of the truth, and need the money to maintain the servers. Do you think, that with the Altitude's "slow growth rate", they could make a living out of their Altitude profits?
Do you think they would give demo players two planes equal in fighting power to paying planes, unlimited Altitude access, with no time restrictions, if they did not expect them to play their game the way it's being played? Smushface, and the rest of you "demo-ers are ruining everything", tell me this: Did they make any patches that made the Demo planes WEAKER so that they would be unable to combat the other planes? Look at the change log. The only changes were these:Green "Rubberized Hull": increased elasticity in collision calculations
damage reduction is the same (65%), but rubberized planes now bounce much farther after a collision than non-bouncy planes

Added Blue "Turbocharger": increases energy regeneration rate by 20%

Modified Green "Rubberized Hull": addded knockback reduction, improved collision reduction
reduces damage from collisions with buildings by 65%
reduces knockback from explosives by 35%No patches that exist to get rid of / convert 100+ hour demo players. No trace of weakening. And if you look, you'll see all the planes constantly being equalized so that they could effectively combat eachother, on equal grounds, demo or no demo.
When they read their forums, did they agree and change anything to drive away people who couldn't pay, and force people who could to do so or get the heck out of here?
When they played the game themselves, did they see the state of 50% demo players and decide to kick them out?

They DIDN'T.

If they they wished for demo users to only play Altitude to decide their opinion on it and buy it, then they would have disadvantaged the demo users. Rather, they chose to give paying users more options, more opportunities to find a strategy they can master, but did not make them "greater" than the demo-ers.

Nerl).3
08-17-2009, 11:27 PM
Nerl. Now that I know you are 14, things make a lot more sense. You don't understand concepts like the Freeloader / Public Radio problem. But from what I can see, it has been spelled out. And yes. Demo users have almost completely ruined the official altitude TBD servers.

What does age have to do with this? How does behing 14 make it harder to understand the "Freeloader / Public Radio problem"? How does being 14 make it harder to absorb current events? How does being an adolescent mean lack of understanding in simple concepts? We can learn Einstein's theory of relativity in school - yet you don't think we can understand public radio? This is one thing where life experience doesn't help.
From the context, I assume you mean that public radio prevents people from buying music. But since people tend to fill up their iPods faster with songs than you can sing one, I don't see how it's much of a problem. A fourth of the songs I have I bought because I heard them on the radio. It may have been spelled out, but it was spelled incorrectly.
Once again then: Who do demo players hurt?
How exactly are we "ruining" the Official TBD servers?
Why are "50% demo players" a bad thing?

nesnl
08-17-2009, 11:52 PM
Games with an over abundance of loopys and/or bombers is not fun.

Combine that with the fact that most demo players are just bad players and you have a game that's even less fun.

Demo players typically care less about the game and their reputation. They do stupid stuff like circle the bomb endlessly, drop the bomb for no reason, and fail to understand even basic strategy of the game.

People who pay for the game have made a commitment. They are more than likely attempting to get better at the game and are looking for games that are competitive.

So half the reason that demo players make the game not fun is because they are limited by the demo itself and create a bad gaming environment because of it. The other half of the reason is because they typically care less and are typically bad at the game.

Believe me, the official servers are pretty much an "all day buffet" for people looking to pump up their Kill/Death ratio and nothing more. Only when we get "pay only" servers will there be anything resembling a good game (outside of the playoffs in tournaments because demo players aren't good enough to make it that far).

Nerl).3
08-18-2009, 01:30 AM
Games with an over abundance of loopys and/or bombers is not fun.
Combine that with the fact that most demo players are just bad players and you have a game that's even less fun.
Demo players typically care less about the game and their reputation. They do stupid stuff like circle the bomb endlessly, drop the bomb for no reason, and fail to understand even basic strategy of the game.
People who pay for the game have made a commitment. They are more than likely attempting to get better at the game and are looking for games that are competitive.
So half the reason that demo players make the game not fun is because they are limited by the demo itself and create a bad gaming environment because of it. The other half of the reason is because they typically care less and are typically bad at the game.
Believe me, the official servers are pretty much an "all day buffet" for people looking to pump up their Kill/Death ratio and nothing more. Only when we get "pay only" servers will there be anything resembling a good game (outside of the playoffs in tournaments because demo players aren't good enough to make it that far).
Would you prefer there to be more Mirandas? Or an over abundance of Explodets? Just imagine the horror... every square inch of the map mined, bouncy shots ricocheting off every wall. Would you prefer that to a series of dogfights against a Loopy?

Since when were Demo players bad? Terrible demo players just leave Altitude. Paid players who are terrible at the game are reluctant to leave and waste their $20. What you end up are only the excellent demo players, and the few noob demo players who have just found Altitude. The bunch of paid Altitude players are mixed. If you haven't noticed, there are some people who buy the game in hopes that it would give them an advantage over demo players. I know, because I was playing 1 vs 5 objective, and one opponent said "i didnt pay 20 dollars just to get ****ed by a ****in **** plane". Then he crashed into a wall and I almost won that round.

Demo players HAVE to care about the game, because it affects their reputation. And they have to care about their reputation just as much as full users, as otherwise they would be swiftly kicked from the server. Demo users cannot kick players who own the game, but anyone can kick a demo user. Both Paid and Demo users can change their moniker and therefor hide their identity. The difference is that Paid users can't be kicked by 50%/35% of users. In a server full of demo users, the Paid user can not be kicked out at all, and can afford to do stuff like circle the bomb incessantly and drop it for no reason.

Demo players who have played the game for 100+ hours have made a commitment, just as the paid players have done so buy buying the game. Both are trying to get better - demo players trying reach the peak of Demo playing, and is constantly getting better. I've noticed that paid players often refuse to use Bomber or Loopy, and try to master one of the three other planes, persisting sometimes without success.

In fact, I bet you that a 12 vs 12 TBD game of Demo users and Paid users, the Demo users would win.

:cool:

TheCapedAvenger
08-18-2009, 01:38 AM
I would bet you that if you took the top 12 demo players and the top 12 paid players, did a couple rounds of TBD, the demo players would win.

That is incorrect. Pro would win, and there are currently no demo players among full-time Altitude professionals.

[FN]MONXY FIST
08-18-2009, 01:40 AM
Nerl are u ****ing serious?

thatdarnedbob
08-18-2009, 01:47 AM
The way I see it, a lot of demo players suck, and usually leave Altitude to preserve their self-esteem, telling themselves that the paid members have an advantage. The remainder are extremely good - just look at Shyney or Flight 666 or Demonpuppet. Why should demo players care any less about winning that payers do? Why can't demo players understand the basic strategy of the game? I very rarely see any full version players, except for a few Mirandas, do anything except for run at the opponent and try to get kills. And would you prefer there to be an overabundance of Mirandas? Or would you prefer Explodets? Both sound like torture - bouncy shots going all over the place, every square inch of the map mined. Why should demo players drop the bomb for no reason? - because they felt like it? They can't, because otherwise they'd be kicked out of the server. If i'm not mistaken, payers can't be kicked out - just banned. Demo players that play are typically either excellent or terrible at the game.

IMO, demo players are better. Thats why the bothered to stick around.

}:)

I would bet you that if you took the top 12 demo players and the top 12 paid players, did a couple rounds of TBD, the demo players would win.

You want a couple of rounds of 12 on 12 to determine skill? See, that's the kind of thinking that makes us think demo players don't understand the game.

On a more productive note: what would it be like if the demo player could unlock the various planes and abilities and use them, but after a certain amount of hours played those p&ps became locked again? It would give some an incentive to register if they knew what they were missing.

nobodyhome
08-18-2009, 01:51 AM
The way I see it, a lot of demo players suck

true


The remainder are extremely good - just look at Shyney or Flight 666 or Demonpuppet.

that is incorrect. none of these people are any good.


I very rarely see any full version players, except for a few Mirandas, do anything except for run at the opponent and try to get kills.

is running at the opponent and getting kills something you're not supposed to do?


And would you prefer there to be an overabundance of Mirandas? Or would you prefer Explodets? Both sound like torture - bouncy shots going all over the place, every square inch of the map mined.

if all demo players bought the game, we wouldn't see an overabundance of any particular plane--we'd see pretty even numbers of each, as opposed to a million loopies and bombers.


IMO, demo players are better. Thats why the bothered to stick around.

no they stick around because they like the game. which is why they really should just buy it.


I would bet you that if you took the top 12 demo players and the top 12 paid players, did a couple rounds of TBD, the demo players would win.

this statement deserves a Beagle-like reply:
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/108/1246024244269.jpg

Nerl).3
08-18-2009, 02:09 AM
You guys may want to change you posts. I edited mine without realizing you guys were responding.

And yes Nobodyhome, you do do other stuff in altitude besides run and get kills. There's this thing called Team Base Destruction, where you try to bomb an opponents base, or at least help the bomber. :x
Oh, and don't take my words out of context.
If demo players were bad at the game, why would they like it?

If you guys are so confident, how about we have a constest? 12 vs 12, demo vs. upgraded.
3 rounds, 2 tbd, 1 dm.

And flight 666 got most kills in consecutive TBD games against almost a full room of upgraded players, besides me and i think 2 other people.

On a more productive note: what would it be like if the demo player could unlock the various planes and abilities and use them, but after a certain amount of hours played those p&ps became locked again? It would give some an incentive to register if they knew what they were missing. That sounds like a good idea. If people found out that they were really good at one of the paid planes, they would could buy the game.

Shyney
08-18-2009, 02:13 AM
that is incorrect. none of these people are any good.


Careful... ill completely embarrass you..

But other then that, i agree with you, and Nerd is pretty much off his little rocker. :)

thatdarnedbob
08-18-2009, 02:15 AM
You guys may want to change you posts. I edited mine without realizing you guys were responding.

Naw, we cool. ;)

Nerl).3
08-18-2009, 02:21 AM
Careful... ill completely embarrass you..

But other then that, i agree with you, and Nerd is pretty much off his little rocker. :)

:o

HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT!
I'm not a he.

Anyway, none of you have yet to prove me wrong. So....

}:>)

gumbyy
08-18-2009, 02:25 AM
12 v 12? Pray tell how that would work. Servers are already chaotic enough with 7 v 7.

Demo players like the game because...they have fun. I'm bad at soccer but I like playing it anyway.

Shyney
08-18-2009, 02:25 AM
:o

HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT!
I'm not a he.

Because you are wrong..

gumbyy
08-18-2009, 02:27 AM
:o

HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT!
I'm not a he.

Anyway, none of you have yet to prove me wrong. So....

}:>)

UH OH!!!!! WE HAVE A KUJA WANNABE!!!!!

You have yet to prove us wrong too so...what's your point again?

Nerl).3
08-18-2009, 02:33 AM
UH OH!!!!! WE HAVE A KUJA WANNABE!!!!!

You have yet to prove us wrong too so...what's your point again?
I did prove you wrong.
And I don't mean the 12 vs 12 thing.

And why is Kuja so famous?

Blank
08-18-2009, 02:33 AM
Careful... ill completely embarrass you..

But other then that, i agree with you, and Nerd is pretty much off his little rocker. :)

there's a handful of good demo players... almost all of them bombers. I'd put Shyney against any other bomber player (paid or otherwise)... then again, it's a bomber, not exactly the most skillful of planes :| If anything, I tend to be more impressed by demo players than most paid players because they're stuck with crappier perks :P

A 12 vs 12 is a pretty stupid test though. The game becomes *insanely* spammy at that point and less about skill and more about brute force. If you actually wanted a decent challenge out of this, I'd say at least consider something like a 5v5... or even official server "standard" with a 7v7.

Regardless, if you actually got the top paid players together, they would destroy the best demo players :( That said, there are plenty of horrible paid players.

GGQ
08-18-2009, 02:33 AM
If you guys are so confident, how about we have a constest? 12 vs 12, demo vs. upgraded.

12 vs 12, demo vs. upgraded.

12 vs 12

12 vs 12

LOL

Also, Nerl, you can't change your posts and then expect everybody who quoted you to change theirs. They responded to what you said, simple as that. Mostly, all you changed was to take out the word 'top' from your laughable-on-so-many-levels challenge. You are right that not every paying member is better than every demo member. Some demo players are really good, but I don't think it's reasonable to believe that the average demo player is better than the average paying player.

As for my contribution to the original subject of the thread...
You really can't give demo players less perks. They already have the fewest possible. I also don't recommend giving demo players more perks. From my own experience of being a cheap student, after the game was released I resisted buying the game until the Summer League started. If I had had access to heavy armor loopy/bomber, I probably would never have bought the game. Why would I? Just get good at loopy/bomber -> own stuff. I bought the game so that I could be the best I could be. Dying just before dropping a bomb in my rubber loopy was the most aggravating feeling... knowing that if I'd had heavy armour it would have been a hit. So for the me the restriction of the demo helped convince me to buy the game.

I think it'd be a good idea to have a free weekend every so often so demo players could try out the other planes for a bit. Tantalize them, you know? I also approve of capping demo levels to 20~ or wherever you get the bomber perk, and adding a 'demo' tag to their names. Demo players are welcome to play demo, just make sure they remember at every moment that they are just demos.

Nerl).3
08-18-2009, 02:35 AM
12 v 12? Pray tell how that would work. Servers are already chaotic enough with 7 v 7.

Demo players like the game because...they have fun. I'm bad at soccer but I like playing it anyway.

True, but thats a sport. You have addrenaline and you still feel a victory. Theres less of a "Well i totally stank this time" in soccer. In Altitude, if you repeatedly get 40 deaths and 10 kills and last place in FFA, you'd be frustrated. If you don't score in soccer, well, you still had fun.

ORYLY
08-18-2009, 02:38 AM
If we removed demo players, I don't think the amount of skilled players would increase. 90+% of people will suck to good players, nerfing demos won't change that percentage. Organized play will still be done the same way, how does noobstomping on the public servers affect it?

And for the lulz:
And at ORLY. As a holdover from my time spent doing organized debate, any argument that does not have a corresponding counterpoint is assumed to be conceded.
As a holdover from my days of Calvinball, I am leading Q to 54.

I also declare myself president.

Nerl).3
08-18-2009, 02:45 AM
LOL

Also, Nerl, you can't change your posts and then expect everybody who quoted you to change theirs. They responded to what you said, simple as that. Mostly, all you changed was to take out the word 'top' from your laughable-on-so-many-levels challenge. You are right that not every paying member is better than every demo member. Some demo players are really good, but I don't think it's reasonable to believe that the average demo player is better than the average paying player.

Hey, i didn't know people were already writing responses and quoting me. I thought I had enough time to change my rant to a reasonable post.

Demo players play because they like it and they're good. Its' more common for people to be good at things they like, more often that it is that they' like something the don't know how to do.

Paid players payed either to become better or because they like the game. You end up with every kind of person paying for the game - correct?
Bad demo players leave. Only the good remains. Therefore, average demo player is better than average paid player. And I'm staging a contest to prove it.


I say 12 vs 12 as hopefully we get not just the 3 really really good players fighting each other. How about 9 vs. 9?
I'd put up some kinda wager. "This game ain't big 'nuff for the both of us. I win, i skip town and leave forever. You win, and..." but it wouldn't be fair to make you leave after paying for the game.

And I put the word Top back into my challenge. Pick anyone you want to compete.

[FN]MONXY FIST
08-18-2009, 02:48 AM
Im game for this challenge.

Nerl).3
08-18-2009, 02:58 AM
Ooh, I have an idea! Since you guys are so keen on helping our developers, how about if I lose, I leave alti forever, and if you lose, one of you buys me the full game? :) I mean, it wouldn't be too much right? Cause you'll be helping the developer - and there's obviously no chance in the world i'd win. (please oh please oh please oh pleasee...).


And since we've strayed sooo far off topic:

Pleasure to meet you, President ORYLY.

I think the demo is good as it is. Add new stuff for paid players (paid player only server seems alright). I suppose new planes are too much to ask for, but maybe a few new perks or something?

as red as black
08-18-2009, 03:01 AM
/VoteKick 12 Nerl Reason: (insert thesaurus list for "idiot") 2 if gay.

Nerl).3
08-18-2009, 03:04 AM
/VoteKick 12 Nerl Reason: (insert thesaurus list for "idiot") 2 if gay.
Don't be ridiculous.
My altitude name isn't just Nerl).3, pft.

as red as black
08-18-2009, 03:09 AM
Now that was uncalled for.

no this was

http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/gifs/stupid.jpeg

(and way to edit your previous post)

Nerl).3
08-18-2009, 03:10 AM
no this was

http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/gifs/stupid.jpeg

(and way to edit your previous post)

Ah. Well then THAT was uncalled for.
And I've neither lost nor quit.

And stupid? You're the one trying to insult people with demotivational posters.

Carbon
08-18-2009, 03:47 AM
haha I'm down for this challenge, can't wait for the pros to steamroll the demo users.

Good luck organizing enough good demo users to even stand a chance

Nerl).3
08-18-2009, 03:56 AM
}: )

Demo player are tougher than we seem.

But i've suddenly realized an impediment in my plans:
School starts in 3 days. And many demo players are just kids. The time differences might force us to play during a time that they're in school. Aw geez.

I'll work around it.

I'll start a new thread for our impending contest t'morrow. If anyone will be willing to take me up on my wager, say so before then.


;) Go demoers.
We so DO stand a chance. You are gunna eat your words, i assure you.
ALSO: we need someone to host the server.

nesnl
08-18-2009, 04:09 AM
Look, this conversation has gone on waaay too long. It's basically some of the better people in this game who have been around for a long time arguing with one guy who uses the demo.

Bottom line is he doesn't know what he is talking about.

He proposed a 12 vs. 12 TBD match. I don't think you can understand this game any less than to suggest this type of match as an accurate determination of skill.

And Ner|).3, you can keep saying whatever you want, but the bottom line is you quite obviously don't understand this game. You can say that demo players are good at this game, but we all know that you are wrong. We have been around a lot longer than you. We know that the Official servers games are ruined by demo players. You just don't want to hear it and keep trying to make points that either don't make sense or make you look less knowledgeable about the game.

gameguard
08-18-2009, 04:41 AM
did he really mean that. Its pretty funny. There was very few demo players who played at a high level. Off the top of my head the only one I can think of is Shorty. Even then, he wasnt good per se but he could control throttle and generally kill people pretty well. Anyways he bought the game now.

ps.
Im talking about people who started from demo, not vets who used or still uses demo (shyney . .).

Jacques Strap
08-18-2009, 05:20 AM
I think that the demo game is just fine as it is. However, I think that an Official #5 server TBD for people with the full game should be added. The rubber hull does seem a little too good, as it gives noobs the ability to flop around on the ground and blow themselves up with the big bomb. I think that the rubber hull should reduce the damage taken by a crash, but not reduce damage from dragging/flopping on the ground.

gumbyy
08-18-2009, 05:42 AM
I am just shocked that Nerd still doesn't realize how inane a 12 v 12 game is. If some sort of game does go down please please someone tell me so I can watch. Or even play. I'm far from the best but I feel pretty confident I could kick most demos' ass.

tyr
08-18-2009, 05:58 AM
What the ****
12 vs 12, really ?
Even 9v9 is ridiculous

Btw, even 7v7 is kinda stupid now that I think of it. I always play for kills in public games (except when I have a really good shot at scoring a bomb hit), and I usually end being in the top3 of most kills, and I don't think I was ever beaten at that by a demo user in a long game (over 10 minutes).
But this isn't only about who can kill the others the best.
I invite you to watch the vods of ACE vs fLb, they will be available on youtube in a few hours, and you'll see what teamplay means.

But I'm not sure you understand the game enough to get all the subtilities that happened in these games.

thatdarnedbob
08-18-2009, 06:08 AM
With 12 people, we could all just lay down impenetrable minefields around the other spawn.

Carbon
08-18-2009, 06:10 AM
With 12 people, we could all just lay down impenetrable minefields around the other spawn.

12 3 gold ace instinct explodets supress 12 rubber hull loopies for 1 hour straight

as red as black
08-18-2009, 06:10 AM
If 12 v 12 gets organized, nerl will officially be a better troll than wedge.

Kuja900
08-18-2009, 06:11 AM
But cartoon skies are fun to blast my way across! :(
Plus i'm just 14. So i don't actually have a job. yet.


post must be 10 characters.

ham
08-18-2009, 06:19 AM
Look, this conversation has gone on waaay too long. It's basically some of the better people in this game who have been around for a long time arguing with one guy who uses the demo.

Bottom line is he doesn't know what he is talking about.

He proposed a 12 vs. 12 TBD match. I don't think you can understand this game any less than to suggest this type of match as an accurate determination of skill.

And Ner|).3, you can keep saying whatever you want, but the bottom line is you quite obviously don't understand this game. You can say that demo players are good at this game, but we all know that you are wrong. We have been around a lot longer than you. We know that the Official servers games are ruined by demo players. You just don't want to hear it and keep trying to make points that either don't make sense or make you look less knowledgeable about the game.

your weenie is lil

gumbyy
08-18-2009, 06:21 AM
Personally, I think Rubber Hull weenie is just OP. Why should demo users get free Rubber Hull weenie when the rest of us have to pay for it. It's just totes unfairs.

ryebone
08-18-2009, 06:24 AM
I would gladly participate in a 12v12. Watching recent league games have made me feel inadequate. I need something to boost my self-esteem.

Kuja900
08-18-2009, 06:29 AM
If you are trolling epic success, I'l definitely play lol ^^.

as red as black
08-18-2009, 06:55 AM
now to get the worst demo's ever to show up and play.....

I'm thinkin

Adolf Hitler...
Hammer....

we need names people

200th post!

tyr
08-18-2009, 07:07 AM
Turretnator

ryebone
08-18-2009, 09:26 AM
On second thought, these demo users may actually win...

Nerl).3
08-18-2009, 02:17 PM
On second thought, these demo users may actually win...

That's the spirit!
(and with no damage to their base at all :p )

Look, this conversation has gone on waaay too long. It's basically some of the better people in this game who have been around for a long time arguing with one guy who uses the demo.

Bottom line is he doesn't know what he is talking about.

He proposed a 12 vs. 12 TBD match. I don't think you can understand this game any less than to suggest this type of match as an accurate determination of skill.

And Ner|).3, you can keep saying whatever you want, but the bottom line is you quite obviously don't understand this game. You can say that demo players are good at this game, but we all know that you are wrong. We have been around a lot longer than you. We know that the Official servers games are ruined by demo players. You just don't want to hear it and keep trying to make points that either don't make sense or make you look less knowledgeable about the game.

SHE.
(sorry kuja)
(And how the heck do you become famous on a forum by stating your gender? Thats odd.)

But tyr, you can post anything you want, but without evidence, "the buttom line is you quite obviously" have no right to say so. None of you have proved my points wrong - you simply say repeatedly that it's wrong. None of you have given any other valid points - you just act as if you have them. I mean seriously: "Demo players suck cause you're stupid." "Demoers ruin the TBD servers because... well we know they ruin the TBD servers and you're stupid for arguing." "Demo players are lame cause you don't know what you're talking about". You haven't proved me wrong. Thats exactly why i'm staging this little contest, as actions speak louder than words.


9 versus 9, Demo users versus Paid users.
3 rounds: 2 Team Base Defense, 1 Deathmatch.
Each team picks their players.
Each team picks one TBD map.
Both teams will vote on the DM map.


And if Hitler shows up we'll ban him faster than he can suicide, you can count on that.

Blank
08-18-2009, 03:16 PM
And Ner|).3, you can keep saying whatever you want, but the bottom line is you quite obviously don't understand this game. You can say that demo players are good at this game, but we all know that you are wrong. We have been around a lot longer than you. We know that the Official servers games are ruined by demo players. You just don't want to hear it and keep trying to make points that either don't make sense or make you look less knowledgeable about the game.

There are demo players who are better than paid players. I've been here longer than you have. Therfur e, that makes me MORE RIGHT THAN YOU.

eth
08-18-2009, 03:23 PM
blank you missed an e after therefor

Blank
08-18-2009, 03:25 PM
blank you missed an e after therefor

fixed, thx.

eth
08-18-2009, 03:31 PM
youre welcome i hope maybe i saved your marks in school with my excellent grammatical corrections

nesnl
08-18-2009, 04:00 PM
But tyr, you can post anything you want, but without evidence, "the buttom line is you quite obviously" have no right to say so. None of you have proved my points wrong - you simply say repeatedly that it's wrong. None of you have given any other valid points - you just act as if you have them. I mean seriously: "Demo players suck cause you're stupid." "Demoers ruin the TBD servers because... well we know they ruin the TBD servers and you're stupid for arguing." "Demo players are lame cause you don't know what you're talking about". You haven't proved me wrong. Thats exactly why i'm staging this little contest, as actions speak louder than words.

First off, I am not tyr. So don't even try giving him credit for me tearing apart your arguments dude.

I am more than willing to discuss this with you once you give a valid response to my earlier responses. I told you that demo players suck because they circle the bomb, drop it for no reason, flop around on the ground, infest the game with an over abundance of loopys and bombers, don't care about their reputation, etc. I mean you tried to respond but all you said was "Nuh Uh! Paid players circle the bomb and paid players don't care about their reputation." It was actually quite humorous that all of your counter points were actually just saying what I said and just reversing the demo/paid aspect.

So I have told you why demo players are horrible and make for mostly horrible games. Until you can give a valid counter argument consider yourself done.

tyr
08-18-2009, 04:09 PM
First off, I am not tyr. So don't even try giving him credit for me tearing apart your arguments dude.

:(

10chars, blablabla..

Nerl).3
08-18-2009, 04:29 PM
Aw cheese.
I got my quotes messed up.

Drat. Sorry there tyr.

I am more than willing to discuss this with you once you give a valid response to my earlier responses. I told you that demo players suck because they circle the bomb, drop it for no reason, flop around on the ground, infest the game with an over abundance of loopys and bombers, don't care about their reputation, etc. I mean you tried to respond but all you said was "Nuh Uh! Paid players circle the bomb and paid players don't care about their reputation." It was actually quite humorous that all of your counter points were actually just saying what I said and just reversing the demo/paid aspect.

Although I already explained that demo players can't do that without being kicked, and paid player CAN.
Although I already explained that the terrible demo players just leave. Paid payers CAN'T (without wasting $20)

btw, I did already disprove those points:

Would you prefer there to be more Mirandas? Or an over abundance of Explodets? Just imagine the horror... every square inch of the map mined, bouncy shots ricocheting off every wall. Would you prefer that to a series of dogfights against a Loopy?

Since when were Demo players bad? Terrible demo players just leave Altitude. Paid players who are terrible at the game are reluctant to leave and waste their $20. What you end up are only the excellent demo players, and the few noob demo players who have just found Altitude. The bunch of paid Altitude players are mixed. If you haven't noticed, there are some people who buy the game in hopes that it would give them an advantage over demo players. I know, because I was playing 1 vs 5 objective, and one opponent said "i didnt pay 20 dollars just to get ****ed by a ****in **** plane". Then he crashed into a wall and I almost won that round.

Demo players HAVE to care about the game, because it affects their reputation. And they have to care about their reputation just as much as full users, as otherwise they would be swiftly kicked from the server. Demo users cannot kick players who own the game, but anyone can kick a demo user. Both Paid and Demo users can change their moniker and therefor hide their identity. The difference is that Paid users can't be kicked by 50%/35% of users. In a server full of demo users, the Paid user can not be kicked out at all, and can afford to do stuff like circle the bomb incessantly and drop it for no reason.

Demo players who have played the game for 100+ hours have made a commitment, just as the paid players have done so buy buying the game. Both are trying to get better - demo players trying reach the peak of Demo playing, and is constantly getting better. I've noticed that paid players often refuse to use Bomber or Loopy, and try to master one of the three other planes, persisting sometimes without success.


You did not disprove that. You did not prove it untrue. You just laughed and said "hey, thats just backwards!".
That does not make it untrue. And you did not prove it untrue.

gumbyy
08-18-2009, 04:46 PM
I can't believe Nerd is still at it. Let's change the subject of this thread. Everyone vote for the Top 3 best trolls in the game (since Top blah blah lists are all the rage right now)

1. Nerd.3
2. Nerd.3
3. Nerd.3

eth
08-18-2009, 04:54 PM
Nice, gumby!

1. [420]...jk...[420] (or something like that, best troll EVER)
2. AdolfHitler
3. Nerl | 3.3|)

Also, since we're kinda kinda moving towards this topic, let me start out.

The Emperor Penguin is the tallest and heaviest of all living penguin species and is endemic to Antarctica. The male and female are similar in plumage and size, reaching 122 cm (48 in) in height and weighing anywhere from 22 to 37 kg (48 to 82 lb). Like all penguins, it is flightless, with a streamlined body and wings stiffened and flattened into flippers for a marine lifestyle.

tyr
08-18-2009, 04:55 PM
You forgot Wedge.

Nerl).3
08-18-2009, 04:57 PM
I can't believe Nerd is still at it. Let's change the subject of this thread. Everyone vote for the Top 3 best trolls in the game (since Top blah blah lists are all the rage right now)

1. Nerd.3
2. Nerd.3
3. Nerd.3

It's nice to know I've argued so well that my opponents have resorted to slander.
Do you think what you're doing is clever at all?

btw: my name is Nerl).3
get it right.
gawsh. :)

eth
08-18-2009, 04:59 PM
I am right and all the world is wrong

bow before me

edit: that was supposed to be all caps :(

Loli.ta
08-18-2009, 05:05 PM
I'm getting the full today! No more demo! Now I can join a clan~

CCN
08-18-2009, 05:07 PM
did he really mean that. Its pretty funny. There was very few demo players who played at a high level. Off the top of my head the only one I can think of is Shorty. Even then, he wasnt good per se but he could control throttle and generally kill people pretty well. Anyways he bought the game now.

ps.
Im talking about people who started from demo, not vets who used or still uses demo (shyney . .).

demo planes are weak as hell, for shorty to play at that level is a huge achievement.

E.g. Name one player in the top 35 who uses a demo plane as the preferred plane. You can't.

The people who bought the game were pissed at getting "luck killed" by demo planes so complained to have them nerfed, bomber got nerfed, and tracker got much weaker then double fire.

Nerl).3
08-18-2009, 05:21 PM
demo planes are weak as hell, for shorty to play at that level is a huge achievement.

E.g. Name one player in the top 35 who uses a demo plane as the preferred plane. You can't.

The people who bought the game were pissed at getting "luck killed" by demo planes so complained to have them nerfed, bomber got nerfed, and tracker got much weaker then double fire.... You know the preferred planes of the top 35 players?
Who are the top 35 players anyway?
I found the All Star list, but theres only 14.

And i've never had a problem using the demo planes.

gumbyy
08-18-2009, 05:25 PM
What he means is no one uses Loopy + Rubber + Turbo or Bomber + Rubber + Turbo. People do use Loopy and Bomber (though not that many) but not with that combo of demo perks.

What is your name in game Nerd.3? I'm sure there are plenty of people who want to play you and see the skill behind all this talk.

Blank
08-18-2009, 05:54 PM
What he means is no one uses Loopy + Rubber + Turbo or Bomber + Rubber + Turbo. People do use Loopy and Bomber (though not that many) but not with that combo of demo perks.

What is your name in game Nerd.3? I'm sure there are plenty of people who want to play you and see the skill behind all this talk.

I've decided the next trend I'm going to start to prove I'm better than everyone else. I've unequipped all my green/blue perks while I random. Real proz don't use perkz and use z's as s's.

gumbyy
08-18-2009, 06:15 PM
Blank has a huge weiner.

Blank
08-18-2009, 06:17 PM
Blank has a huge weiner.

I could tickle your colon from here if I wanted too.

gumbyy
08-18-2009, 06:28 PM
I only accept the challenge if it is a 12 v 12 demo vs. upgraded colon tickling contest.

Nerl).3
08-18-2009, 07:11 PM
What he means is no one uses Loopy + Rubber + Turbo or Bomber + Rubber + Turbo. People do use Loopy and Bomber (though not that many) but not with that combo of demo perks.

What is your name in game Nerd.3? I'm sure there are plenty of people who want to play you and see the skill behind all this talk.

Monxy fist will till you that we had a duel match where we were neck and neck for 14 rounds, each with 7 wins and 7 losses. Then monxy got a 2 point lead and I panicked, strayed from my strategy, and just started charging like an idiot. Sigh. Note to self: never, ever, ever panic. I've only been here for around a month - isn't it at least somewhat of an achievement to be equal to monxy for 14 dm rounds? Plus I got 3rd place on a FFA match moments earlier. The server had at least 15 people - only 3 of them where demo users, and they snagged 2nd, 3rd, and 5th place. You'd think they'd be distributed evenly, some at 10th, some at 5th. No, rather, all 3 were in the top five.

Anyhow, even if I was the worst player on Altitude, I still reserve the right to say that most demo players are better than me.

i'm
[SSD] Nerl).3
:D
There is a difference between that and
Nerd.3

And of course they don't use the demo perks. They bought the game so that they wouldn't have to.

gumbyy
08-18-2009, 07:37 PM
Lol, the fact that you take the results of an FFA with 15+ people in it seriously just shows how little you know about this game.

CCN
08-18-2009, 07:47 PM
Lol, the fact that you take the results of an FFA with 15+ people in it seriously just shows how little you know about this game.

+1


+1
0-o-0-o

Carbon
08-18-2009, 08:05 PM
When PPP was around with 32 player servers I regularly topped the scoreboards by spamming with bomber AND I WAS DEMO!

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it you paying scum

Nerl).3
08-18-2009, 08:52 PM
Lol, the fact that you take the results of an FFA with 15+ people in it seriously just shows how little you know about this game.

Then tell me why I shouldn't.


No matter how many people are in it, the fact is the demo players were winning. Explain to me that their victories were sheer luck then. Why couldn't the paying members do the same thing?
What are you going to call it? Luck?

CCN
08-18-2009, 08:55 PM
Then tell me why I shouldn't.


No matter how many people are in it, the fact is the demo players were winning. Explain to me that their victories were sheer luck then.
What are you going to call it? Luck?

Everyone note, I played with him not 10 mintues ago, didn't see a >=1 k/d once, and dodged a 1v1

Nerl).3
08-18-2009, 08:59 PM
Everyone note, I played with him not 10 mintues ago, didn't see a >=1 k/d once, and dodged a 1v1
Unfair. I was typing.

CCN
08-18-2009, 09:07 PM
Unfair. I was typing.

offer still stands

Nerl).3
08-18-2009, 10:07 PM
offer still stands
:P

Though if it was the tbd battle, then I wouldn't have been trying for kills anyway.

Ugh.

I'm going to go type up the challenge into a new thread, them i'm off. I'm feeling mysteriously tired today... *yawn*
So far we've got 4 willing people for the demo team.
Someone can self proclaim themselves leader of the paid players and pick the people they want. I really don't care right now...

Mkay... new thread... *yawn*

Kuja900
08-18-2009, 10:11 PM
Just give me 11 other random paid players I dont care who and I'll play with em.

CCN
08-18-2009, 10:17 PM
Just give me 11 other random paid players I dont care who and I'll play with em.

Don't let him off that easy, pick the best paid players you can and get a 100000:1 kill ratio.

FOR HUMANITY!

Blank
08-18-2009, 10:18 PM
Everyone note, I played with him not 10 mintues ago, didn't see a >=1 k/d once, and dodged a 1v1

The game isn't even balanced for 1on1's. The results of a 1on1 are about as important as the results of a 15 man FFA.

gumbyy
08-18-2009, 10:19 PM
Just give me 11 other random paid players I dont care who and I'll play with em.

I'll play.

Oh idea, we could have this contest right after the All-Star game. That way there would already be quite a few good paid players on.

Bukem
08-18-2009, 10:24 PM
btw when I was a demo player I just flew around going emp->hold f and I used to come top in the FFA servers all the time and thought I was awesome. It's not hard, your plane aims for you and it doesn't even matter if you crash :\

Kuja900
08-18-2009, 10:25 PM
I'll play.

Oh idea, we could have this contest right after the All-Star game. That way there would already be quite a few good paid players on.

Thats actually good thinking, props gumbers

CCN
08-18-2009, 10:26 PM
The game isn't even balanced for 1on1's. The results of a 1on1 are about as important as the results of a 15 man FFA.

The game isn't balanced. 1on1 isn't important for what (you just said it isn't, what is?)? What is important is intangibles which are hard to measure (I assume you mean) so i'll stick with something that is tangible.

Nerl).3
08-18-2009, 10:51 PM
Sigh. I'll make this quick 'fore i doze off:

I'm going to keep the battle at 9 vs 9, as your arguments against 12v12 are correct.

Someone, selfproclaim yourself leader. k'mon, as red as black. you're just dying to kick my butt. As you guys said, there are some bad paid players, just as there are demo players. We don't want them to to join up, and be the ones that just "circle the bomb and drop it for no reason" and mess up the whole team. And ruin your good ol' 10000:1 ratio.

So we've got

kuja (wait - does this mean i'm a trolling epic success? I don't wanna be a trolling epic success :/ And how does organizing a match a turn people into trolls? I'm insulted.)
gumby
carbon
monxy fist

lastly, lets just stop arguing.
it seems pretty obvious that whatever you say, i will offer a rebuttal, and whatever I say, you guys will. We're never going to reach an end to this. Let the demo vs. paid player game decide.
Each team picks their choice of tbd map and make a top three list of dm map.
and now back to my thread writing

nesnl
08-18-2009, 11:03 PM
Would you prefer there to be more Mirandas? Or an over abundance of Explodets? Just imagine the horror... every square inch of the map mined, bouncy shots ricocheting off every wall. Would you prefer that to a series of dogfights against a Loopy?

Since when were Demo players bad? Terrible demo players just leave Altitude. Paid players who are terrible at the game are reluctant to leave and waste their $20. What you end up are only the excellent demo players, and the few noob demo players who have just found Altitude. The bunch of paid Altitude players are mixed. If you haven't noticed, there are some people who buy the game in hopes that it would give them an advantage over demo players. I know, because I was playing 1 vs 5 objective, and one opponent said "i didnt pay 20 dollars just to get ****ed by a ****in **** plane". Then he crashed into a wall and I almost won that round.

Demo players HAVE to care about the game, because it affects their reputation. And they have to care about their reputation just as much as full users, as otherwise they would be swiftly kicked from the server. Demo users cannot kick players who own the game, but anyone can kick a demo user. Both Paid and Demo users can change their moniker and therefor hide their identity. The difference is that Paid users can't be kicked by 50%/35% of users. In a server full of demo users, the Paid user can not be kicked out at all, and can afford to do stuff like circle the bomb incessantly and drop it for no reason.

Demo players who have played the game for 100+ hours have made a commitment, just as the paid players have done so buy buying the game. Both are trying to get better - demo players trying reach the peak of Demo playing, and is constantly getting better. I've noticed that paid players often refuse to use Bomber or Loopy, and try to master one of the three other planes, persisting sometimes without success.

As for your first point, you obviously didn't pick up the point of what I originally said. Having a game with an over abundance of any plane is not fun. So no, I don't want a game of all Explodets or all Biplanes. I want a game of an even mix of planes. This is what happens when you have all paid players, but this is ruined by the demo players.

You are wrong about terrible Demo players leaving Altitude. Most of them stick around and continue to be annoying because they don't care. They didn't pay any money so they can just mess around, circle the bomb, and not help their team. If they get kicked or banned they don't care. They either wait until the time is up and come back or they just create a new account. That is what you don't understand. When you pay for an account you are stuck with that Vapor ID (that's unique to your account). If you get banned from a server once you pay for the game that's it for you (unless you buy another copy). However, a demo player can just go register another demo and they are back on the server pissing people off again.

The error you again make is assuming that demo players are some limited pool of players. Like somehow the "bad ones leave" leaving only the good demo players. The whole point of the demo is to get new players. Every time I sign online there is a new set of players who I have no idea who they are. Add into this the entitled players like yourself who refuse to buy the game and you have an even more inflated number of demo players infesting the game with loopy/bomber. I would say that 90%+ of the games I play on the official servers are at least half demo players if not more. Don't just assume you can say "bad players leave" and people are going to believe you. I have played this game much more than you and I am going off what I see in the game not what some 14 year old says on the forums.

You see what you fail to realize is that you aren't helping the community. You somehow have this idea that you are contributing as a demo player. You are nothing more than another terribad leech who plays a loopy/bomber with rubberized hull and turbocharger. I would much rather you bought the game and played some variety and made the games more fun even if you weren't good at the game. Otherwise I would prefer you just stop playing. If you had been around since the beta (where everyone could play any plane and any perk) you would agree with me.

EDIT:

I will take your challenge for a demo versus paid match up. It will be a best of 3 TBD matchup. I will let the demo team select any of the official maps to play the three matches on. It will be a 5v5.

My team will be (assuming they are down to own some nubs):

Maimer
Esoteric
Gameguard
ZidaneTribal
Ballin' Shades

Choose your team wisely!

wolf'j'max
08-18-2009, 11:09 PM
Sigh. I'll make this quick 'fore i doze off:

I'm going to keep the battle at 9 vs 9, as your arguments against 12v12 are correct.

Someone, selfproclaim yourself leader. k'mon, as red as black. you're just dying to kick my butt. As you guys said, there are some bad paid players, just as there are demo players. We don't want them to to join up, and be the ones that just "circle the bomb and drop it for no reason" and mess up the whole team. And ruin your good ol' 10000:1 ratio.

So we've got

kuja (wait - does this mean i'm a trolling epic success? I don't wanna be a trolling epic success :/ And how does organizing a match a turn people into trolls? I'm insulted.)
gumby
carbon
monxy fist

lastly, lets just stop arguing.

it seems pretty obvious that whatever you say, i will offer a rebuttal, and whatever I say, you guys will. We're never going to reach an end to this. Let the demo vs. paid player game decide.
Each team picks their choice of tbd map and make a top three list of dm map.
and now back to my thread writing

Lolz when ur ever gunna throw a match on the table vs gumbyy kuja monxy and carbon ill be their fifth player and according to kuja i think we choose woods

Edit: according to maimer: man your soooo dead -.-

<3 love all payed players ^^

nobodyhome
08-18-2009, 11:14 PM
maimer remember to beat them with solely demo planes so that they can't whine that the only reason they lost was because you guys had better planes. :eek:

Nerl).3
08-19-2009, 02:44 AM
Before I offer a full rebuttal, could you explain what you mean by:Most of them stick around and continue to be annoying because they don't care. Do you mean,
Unskilled demo players keep playing the game because they don't care about the game.
or
Unskilled demo players keep playing the game because they don't care about winning.
?

Because if they don't care about the game, why would they bother to play anyway? Couldn't they just do something else?

How do people get banned from the Official servers? I thought you could only be kicked.

The way you say it, you sound as if terrible demo players are also sadistic and enjoy pissing people off.

Oh, and something that is so on topic it's off topic at this point: It seems the Demonstration is less of a "This is what our game is, if you like it buy it", and more of the Free Version. I mean, if the game had no other planes besides Loopy, it would still be fun - not as interesting, but still fun.

And stoping saying "14" as an insult. Most 14 years olds aren't stupid.
...
Well most are, but i'm not.
I think.
Well most would have resort to name calling by now.
Jerkface.

Fatknacker
08-19-2009, 09:22 AM
Just give me 11 other random paid players I dont care who and I'll play with em.

Is Kuja grooming? :eek:

bong
08-19-2009, 12:52 PM
The Explodet is arguably the hardest plane for EVERYONE to kill. Tell me: is it fair that the plane that is most tedious to destroy should not have an opponent equally so? In other words, would it be fair to make the Explodet both near invincible to 100% of players AND be able to easily kill 100% of players? So what if Explodet can't kill 35% of players. At LEAST 35% players can't kill Explodet. So in answer to your question: Yes. I don't know about you, but I never actually look at the levels. I didn't really notice that I hit level 60 until I realized those big level up messages stopped coming up. The only reason I would aim to get to Level 60 would be to gain an extra perk, or an extra plane. But since demo users don't get that, I don't actually care about leveling up. Nothing would change if you stopped us at a lower level.



eeewww nerl

Nerl).3
08-19-2009, 02:42 PM
eeewww nerl
eeewww bong

Wait, why eeewww?

and lol, fatknacker.

as red as black
09-09-2009, 03:27 AM
This problem needs re-addressing (if it was ever addressed in the first place).

My and others infatuation with altitude is waning and crappy annoying demos are the reason.

When I log on to a server, why am I playing with 10 people "testing" out the game?

Massi
09-09-2009, 04:39 AM
this thread is hopeless give it up

as red as black
09-09-2009, 05:23 AM
this thread is hopeless give it up

this is why you're in fLb$

I want maimer back dammit

BootStraps
09-09-2009, 08:33 AM
Lol I love this thread. I am also a demo player and a damn proud one too. Well I want in this demo loopy team. It's all so amusing that even after this not much will change unless lam stops demo once and for all which he won't :)
Well count me in the demo loopy team and for a name I say Maimer Juniors is a damn good one.

DMCM
09-09-2009, 10:40 PM
If you want me to stop playing demo, pay me the game.


I sure won't spend 20$ on a game while paying college.

nesnl
09-09-2009, 11:47 PM
If you want me to stop playing demo, pay me the game.


I sure won't spend 20$ on a game while paying college.

Based on your grammar and sentence structure I am going to go ahead and agree with you that you should spend all your money on college and continue to play the demo.

as red as black
09-10-2009, 12:29 AM
suggestion:

a cap so that only 4 demos can play on official servers at a given time

unless there are less than say 6 customers playing on that given server.

Then if a server populates and there are more than 4 demos playing, kick the one that joined last in favor of a customer who is trying to autojoin.

Nadespam
09-10-2009, 12:34 AM
You see what you fail to realize is that you aren't helping the community. You somehow have this idea that you are contributing as a demo player.


I think full games help the community.

This problem needs re-addressing (if it was ever addressed in the first place).

My and others infatuation with altitude is waning and crappy annoying demos are the reason.

When I log on to a server, why am I playing with 10 people "testing" out the game?

Because there generally aren't 14 paid players looking for a game at the same time. Otherwise all you demo-haters could just pick a random server and go play there, or even set up a server banning demos. All the anti-demo arguments would be legitimate with a bigger paid community, but if people start getting on and can't find a close to full game, people go find another game to play, the game dies.

as red as black
09-10-2009, 12:35 AM
I think full games help the community.



Because there generally aren't 14 paid players looking for a game at the same time. Otherwise all you demo-haters could just pick a random server and go play there, or even set up a server banning demos. All the anti-demo arguments would be legitimate with a bigger paid community, but if people start getting on and can't find a close to full game, people go find another game to play, the game dies.

read my above post

DiogenesDog
09-10-2009, 01:03 AM
Based on your grammar and sentence structure I am going to go ahead and agree with you that you should spend all your money on college and continue to play the demo.

hahsdhfahah awesome response.

of course English probably isn't his native language, but still: best possible reply.

Evan20000
09-10-2009, 01:11 AM
This thread is getting ridiculous.

Nerl, you are one of the best trolls I've ever seen. It hurts to watch you waste your talent here when there's perfectly good image boards to troll. Go to 4chan or something.

I'll gladly play in the Demos vs Paid if it comes down to it.

Beagle
09-10-2009, 10:08 AM
I didn't read any of this thread because it looks long and tedious but if that All-Star Demo vs Paid match I glanced over in here hasn't happened yet I'm totally in for 2-shotting some pathetic rubber loopies.

CCN
09-10-2009, 10:15 AM
I didn't read any of this thread because it looks long and tedious but if that All-Star Demo vs Paid match I glanced over in here hasn't happened yet I'm totally in for 2-shotting some pathetic rubber loopies.

and reversing away from us heavy shield ones ;)

Beagle
09-10-2009, 02:25 PM
and 3-shotting us heavy shield ones ;)

fixed for you

Wood
09-12-2009, 02:10 AM
this is so cool

wolf'j'max
09-12-2009, 08:36 AM
fixed for you

Im ur guys' explo

Beagle
09-12-2009, 10:20 AM
Im ur guys' explo

Why did you quote me when you said that