Dear developers, laser is still broken.

[[Y]]

Just a friendly reminder.

Here's six pages of discussion with plenty of good ideas, some of which Lamster himself contributed:
http://altitudegame.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7311

Also, immunity to shields is silly.

[Ribilla]

I still thing they did the wrong nerf, made laser worse in the highest level of play, while arguably making it easier to pick up and kill mediocre players with, which is the opposite of what should have happened.

If there is a nerf it should bring the damage rate back up and be focused around energy. Energy management is where the skill comes in and it would mean that you'd have to pick between damage and a quick retreat, rather than having both.

[Fartface]

Imo laser needs to receive just as harsh of a nerf as TA did, not just 10% more time for same damage or whatever it was.

[A Nipple]

For me randa is one of the main contributing factors that is resulting in the demise of TBD.

Pleaseeee do something to make TBD more balanced. In APL it has got to the point a 3 randa setup is the norm...

Something needs to change.

NipNip =]

[Ribilla]

Originally Posted by A Nipple

For me randa is one of the main contributing factors that is resulting in the demise of TBD.

Pleaseeee do something to make TBD more balanced. In APL it has got to the point a 3 randa setup is the norm...

Something needs to change.

NipNip =]

Note that the winning team didn't use any lasers for a lot of their matches.

[blln4lyf]

Originally Posted by Fartface

Imo laser needs to receive just as harsh of a nerf as TA did, not just 10% more time for same damage or whatever it was.

This. And fart plays lazer

[Aero_Beast]

Take away bounce shot and lower warp damage and I think randa would be perfect. Maybe make it so lazer cant warp while lazer is going.

[elixirwithani]

tbh laser's 'instantaneous' movement of damage from point A to point B (start of the laser line to its terminus), like time anchor, means that no matter what you do, it will always be broken.

if the damage channeled up the laser gradually (like if it expanded like a lightsaber), it would make sense, but as it is, despite the 'visual' of the laser, it essentially acts as a teleporting nuke

the mechanic is what's broken, not the stats

you can dodge every attack in this game except for laser. if it's in range (which realistically due to the warp-F combo is like 3/4 of a screen length), you take 100% damage, and there is nothing you can do about it except kill the laser faster than it can kill you (which is a little hard since it has the highest burst in the game)

[Fartface]

Originally Posted by Aero_Beast

Maybe make it so lazer cant warp while lazer is going.

This is actually an interesting idea.

Idk how to multiquote D: I'm such a noob. @lix: I agree that laser, and more broadly randa, is hard to nerf effectively simply because it's so different from everything else (180 movement etc). However I think that the TA nerf was actually quite effective -- some TA runners might even argue that TA is now underpowered because other randas might be better runners than that tiny little anchor. I think the best course of action would be to give a huge nerf to laser as well, even if it's a little too much (I don't know enough about balance to have a suggestion of how to do this).

[LewisH]

Would it not be best to buff HC (or other good Randa counters)??
Then if you have good snipers the lasers don't get a chance to get their gold's and are therefore less effective.

Then again my opinion's probably completely invalid, I don't play TBD much, and when I do it's only is Hideout + officials, no higher level stuff, but I can usually just stalk laser players with HC so they can never get golds. Would this work in higher level TBD?

[SlenderMan]

Buff HC and slightly Remote. Nerf randa overall. Some changes like the Aero proposed might work out pretty well. Reducing warp damage and inhabilitating lasers to warp and apply that extra damage would change randa play in a whole new way.

We could drift away a bit and start disucssing a randa nerf as a whole. We all know it's the most dominant plane in the game and there's really nothing much we can do but a small effort to kill them.

I really think something that might be very useful is a change in the energy cost for either Trick, Laser or TA. Make it higher, that way Tricks won't have the chance to 1Shot-Warp kill anybody which is the most used technique with this perk. Lasers wouldn't be able to warp and finish off almost anybody. Maybe even take away the ability to turn around while the laser in effect. TA... I really don't care about tbh.

Edit: my thoughts are pretty broad and not that accurate. Don't bombard me please

[CmdrNoval]

Originally Posted by CmdrNoval

Shortening the laser length seems to be the best answer. No less killing power, or another nerf to ability.

Where I see laser really hurting gameplay....... a randa hiding behind cover and being able to reach through choke points with the laser.

No one is safer than a randa guarding a choke point.

It would require them to expose themselves more, without sacrificing anything else.

I am still for this ^^^
.......................| | |

A nerf, yes, but without stripping the plane of everything that makes it great... Some of the above ideas would seriously cripple it...

[Ribilla]

It needs to be an energy nerf, please don't buff trick or HC either, they already counter laser hard (if the person using them is half decent - cite Vipr and Dragon).

What people seem unable to understand is that laser is far inferior in close and long range to most planes, but it absolutely dominates at mid range. A small energy nerf which makes positioning and then immediate attack + retreat impossible is what's needed. Perhaps the no warp while firing laser could work, but if you take away the reverse whilst firing then you remove all close combat ability.

There is zero problem with laser being able to dart in and kill someone.

The current problem is that laser can dart in, kill someone and then get away. It's an energy modification that can prevent this.

[CmdrNoval]

Originally Posted by Ribilla

It's an energy modification that can prevent this.

The pounce, laser, & run tactic is a bit too op... And if an energy modifier will contain this problem, so be it...

I don't fly the randa, I am coming at this from the victim's perspective.... Imagine my surprise that a Laser Randa can basically take out a Heavy Armor Explodet with a single volley....

Something ain't right there. The heaviest plane in the game... wiped out in one shot with the mosquito of the game.... Who did that math?

[blln4lyf]

Originally Posted by Ribilla

It needs to be an energy nerf, please don't buff trick or HC either, they already counter laser hard (if the person using them is half decent - cite Vipr and Dragon).

What people seem unable to understand is that laser is far inferior in close and long range to most planes, but it absolutely dominates at mid range. A small energy nerf which makes positioning and then immediate attack + retreat impossible is what's needed. Perhaps the no warp while firing laser could work, but if you take away the reverse whilst firing then you remove all close combat ability.

There is zero problem with laser being able to dart in and kill someone.

The current problem is that laser can dart in, kill someone and then get away. It's an energy modification that can prevent this.

It would still be OP. hard nerf would do way more to fix tbd

[silent skies]

Playing 1DM is fun.

Playing 1DM against a team that has 1 randa in it makes me kinda stressed.

Playing 1DM against a team with 4 randas in it makes me want to quit altitude forever.

[Shiro]

Make the 180 degree turn either have a longer cooldown or use more energy. I think the "d" is one huge factor that makes randas able to escape anything so fast and easy.

[LewisH]

Originally Posted by silent skies

Playing 1DM is fun.
Playing 1DM against a team that has 1 randa in it makes me kinda stressed.

Playing 1DM against a team with 4 randas in it makes me want to quit altitude forever.

Silent, I've seen you completely owning Randas before in 1dm
I just don't want it nerfed because rev Laser is so fun, especially in duels

edit: but yeah, Its OP as hell, I suck at Randa but laser is easy >.>

[number 3]

there is a fine line where lasers players differentiate. you have your bad lasers that just run around whoring. and then you have your good lasers that really only kill to move the objective. its all about positioning in tbd. lets say eh rib for example, he was a awesome killer and op as ****. but he literally just whored to the point where it was going to give your team the ez win or ez loss. i am no where near saying that laser and randa for the mostpart isnt op. im just saying look at some players play before you make another (another) thread about this.

[blln4lyf]

Originally Posted by number 3

there is a fine line where lasers players differentiate. you have your bad lasers that just run around whoring. and then you have your good lasers that really only kill to move the objective. its all about positioning in tbd. lets say eh rib for example, he was a awesome killer and op as ****. but he literally just whored to the point where it was going to give your team the ez win or ez loss. i am no where near saying that laser and randa for the mostpart isnt op. im just saying look at some players play before you make another (another) thread about this.

That's any plane... Playing the mode> whoring, what does that have to do with anything?

[leggomyeggo]

Originally Posted by blln4lyf

That's any plane... Playing the mode> whoring, what does that have to do with anything?

i assume he's trying to tell you not to make a type of nerf solely based off of the fact that a laser can get 40 more kills than the average in a game.

for example:
rib has 100 kills
errbody else has 40-60 kills
don't move straight to nerfing damage, etc. consider nerfing energy, etc, things bomb runners might use.

that made no sense.... whatever.

[Radium]

how about we buff all the other weapons and leave laser the same

[ex~]

Originally Posted by silent skies

Playing 1DM is fun.

Playing 1DM against a team that has 1 randa in it makes me kinda stressed.

Playing 1DM against a team with 4 randas in it makes me want to quit altitude forever.

until we meet again skies ^^

[Aki1024]

Originally Posted by Radium

how about we buff all the other weapons and leave laser the same

The Valve Way

[A Nipple]

Originally Posted by Aki1024

The Valve Way

brilliant lol

[zz-]

FWIW its not just lazer thats broken. If you nerf laser a ton everyone will just start using trickster which is only marginally less dominant. The simple fact is that miranda is the fastest and best dodging plane which makes it by far the best carrier and in pretty much every situation where you don't need to wipe out a group of enemies, the best killer too. Oh wait, it's the best at getting and using walls and shields too.

[Ingbo]

Originally Posted by zz-

FWIW its not just lazer thats broken. If you nerf laser a ton everyone will just start using trickster which is only marginally less dominant. The simple fact is that miranda is the fastest and best dodging plane which makes it by far the best carrier and in pretty much every situation where you don't need to wipe out a group of enemies, the best killer too. Oh wait, it's the best at getting and using walls and shields too.

this sounds like what ive been saying for years :3

[leggomyeggo]

Originally Posted by zz-

FWIW its not just lazer thats broken. If you nerf laser a ton everyone will just start using trickster which is only marginally less dominant. The simple fact is that miranda is the fastest and best dodging plane which makes it by far the best carrier and in pretty much every situation where you don't need to wipe out a group of enemies, the best killer too. Oh wait, it's the best at getting and using walls and shields too.

but that's the only reason i'm decent at tbd ._.