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  #1  
Old 12-03-2016, 12:50 AM
19 cm 19 cm is offline
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Default One bomb to destroy the base in tbd coop

One bomb should be enough to destroy the base in tbd coop. This will reduce the aggravating effect of bomb waste and thus make the game more enjoyable.

Here's one way to implement this that I've come up with.

It's great except it won't really work, as I realized too late, because you can't change the bot's spawn position But I'm posting this anyway, because it may help someone come up with a better idea.

Here I've sketched the outline of tbd_coop_elephant. The red blobs to the lower left are player spawns, the blue thing in the center is the base.

Now the red thing under the base is a new turret that we put there. It is the same team as the players, so it will never shoot at them. But whenever the bot comes into its range, it will shoot. We set the ret's radius and damage such that it will take some fraction of the base's health when it hits.

Then we add a new jail for the bot. Unlike the default one which is in the upper right corner, this one is roughly above the base, and within the range of our turret.

We need to modify our coop script so that when it knows it's loading a map that's been modified like this, it will place the bot at the new "lure jail" when the game starts. Then it will watch the base health closely and as soon as it goes down to 30 or lower, it will teleport the bot back to the safe jail.
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File Type: jpg tbd-weakened-base-proposal.jpg (9.1 KB, 12 views)
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  #2  
Old 12-03-2016, 01:22 AM
Loquacious Bum Loquacious Bum is offline
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Cool idea, it would make it more like the old 1de coop which I used to play. Would a solution have to be that complicated? In the video estguy put up https://youtu.be/6kgNMzJLEtQ he just destroys the base with one bomb, I don't know how this was done though :D
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  #3  
Old 12-03-2016, 04:28 AM
Kafka Kafka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loquacious Bum View Post
he just destroys the base with one bomb, I don't know how this was done though
In 1de, it only takes one bomb to destroy the base.

19 cm is talking more specifically about tbd coop.
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  #4  
Old 12-03-2016, 08:20 AM
19 cm 19 cm is offline
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A different way to weaken the base that doesn't need mod support and might actually work.

weakened-base-proposal-v2.0.1.jpg ( full size: https://s12.postimg.org/7a7zfaajh/we...sal_v2_0_1.png )

1. There's only one bot jail and it's directly above the base.
2. Under the base we place a turret that tries to shoot the bot and damages the base, taking 80% of its health. Delay is set to 1 s, so it will fire for the first time 1 second after the map starts.
3. Under this turret we put another more turret. Its delay is 1.5 s, so it will fire after the first turret has fired once but *before* it would fire a second time. The second turret should destroy the first turret so that the base doesn't take any more damage.

4. Now there is no one to kill the second turret, so it will keep firing every 1.5 seconds until the end of time. If we don't want that, we might try a slightly more complicated setup where there's not one but two secondary turrets, and their splash destroys all three turrets.

weakened-base-proposal-v2.1.jpg (full size: https://s18.postimg.org/6wmgj7ymh/we...posal_v2_1.png )
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  #5  
Old 12-03-2016, 08:23 AM
19 cm 19 cm is offline
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Anyone is welcome ^_^ to try out this proposal.

I'm not sure when I'll be able to do it myself because it takes Windows to run Alti Map Editor
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  #6  
Old 12-03-2016, 05:32 PM
Loquacious Bum Loquacious Bum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kafka View Post
In 1de, it only takes one bomb to destroy the base.

19 cm is talking more specifically about tbd coop.
Oh duh, I'm dumb .
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  #7  
Old 12-03-2016, 08:17 PM
biell biell is offline
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One thing to keep in mind about your ideas here (with respect to Coop+) is that Coop+ doesn't have bots. Bots use CPU, and I wanted to pay google less money for Coop+, so I set the bot count to 0. I had to set bot count to 1 on Coop+ Advanced, b/c of 1de. I also had to modify coop_better_together b/c it used the bot in a really awsome and inventive way that broke when the bot count was set to 0. The "_nb" on the end of the map name on Coop+ stands for "No Bots".

I agree that sometimes it is annoying when someone wastes bombs (e.g. coop_bank_robbery). But, I also think that it adds to the value of a record. When the teams work together (we are talking about Co-op here), then they have the best chance of getting the best possible time.

On coop_ace, I purposely made it so the fastest way to play would be for one person to bomb the base 3 times, and have the others pass the bomb to them. BUT, I know how frustrating it can be when that doesn't happen, so I made the bomb spawn relatively quickly. So, the 4th bomb is reasonable to get before people start to yell at each other for bomb wasting.

So, I think there is merit in this idea, and it would be great if some maps were designed this way (or your server mod idea of scaling a base's health down to 30% of the default), but I wouldn't want all maps designed this way.

When I made coop_cerberus, I put the shortcut in there so that it could be run on any server, not just an Alti+ server. Goals 2-6 would happen quickly b/c of the shortcut. I didn't bother with coop_undersea_adventure, and just set the starting score to 5-0, 1 goal and you are done. And, I like this part about coop_undersea_adventure (except when someone looses the ball and we all respawn). I accepted that coop_undersea_adventure can only run on an Alti+ server, which is fine b/c it isn't exactly a very good map.

A small alternative to your existing designs would be to just have people bomb the middle turret, and then let it go to town on the base.
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  #8  
Old 12-03-2016, 08:20 PM
biell biell is offline
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As a side note, while writting the previous post, I thought of an interesting way to make ball_coop more difficult. You need a bot to make it work, but it would be an advanced version of the map, so maybe that is OK.

Put the neutral bomb spawn with the bot, and put a goal there. Then, put your ball spawn where you can get to it. If the ball is lost, the bot gets it and scores. If you start with the score of 5-4. On first spawn, the bot will score right away bringing it to 5-5. Then, either you win by scoring the goal, or you loose the ball and the bot wins.
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  #9  
Old 12-05-2016, 01:50 PM
estguy estguy is offline
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I've come up with another idea, maybe have a turret with like shooting speed of 10 sec face against the base and have it have 20 hp the most. Then have a turret of the same color as the base face down and have big explosin and have it deal 20+ explosion dmg. Since it is facing down, it can't really shoot any direction. But allow the turret to shoot every direction. So when the "10 sec" turret shoots then the other turret starts turning at you when you're above the base. Then killing the 10 sec turret.
-not the best explainer, may record my idea in an upcoming weekend

basicaly the idea is hard to explain, easier to show it

Last edited by estguy; 12-05-2016 at 01:52 PM.
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  #10  
Old 12-05-2016, 04:32 PM
Oyster Oyster is offline
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turrets hurt the base?
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  #11  
Old 12-05-2016, 06:08 PM
estguy estguy is offline
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they do if you set the dmg very high
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  #12  
Old 12-07-2016, 03:48 PM
Loquacious Bum Loquacious Bum is offline
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This might be dumb, but I thought of another way to have the base destroyed with one bomb. If biell is able to implement his special powerup to go through a door idea:

Quote:
OK, that makes sense. I should be able to update "/add key" such that if a powerup name is specified (like "/add key [name] [door] [team] [Bomb|Ball|Demolition Charge|Health|Shield|...]"), then you must posses that specific powerup to pass through the door.
then you could have a bomb at the beginning that must be carried through the map. Only the bomb carrier could go through the door which is right at the base and destroy the base (there would be an instant re-spawn bomb right over the base so they could complete the destruction). I don't know if this would actually work, but it's just an idea
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  #13  
Old 12-08-2016, 01:18 AM
biell biell is offline
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Yes, this is exactly what he was looking for, and this is what I have coded into the Alti+ server.

However, there are a few gotchas that people should be aware of.

Code:
(1de) 1-Life Demolition - add at least one powerup spawner with 'Demolition Charge' selected inside the active bounds of the 'Game' view, and include one or more 'Bases' for one or both of the teams
(1dm) 1-Life Deathmatch - add one 'Powerup Spawner' with 'Demolition Charge' selected to the darkened region outside the 'Game' view, and do not include any 'Bases'
(1bd) 1-Life Base Destruction - add one 'Powerup Spawner' with 'Demolition Charge' selected to the darkened region outside the 'Game' view, and include one or more 'Bases' for one or both of the teams
(ball) Plane Ball - add three 'Powerup Spawners' with 'Ball' selected (one neutral, and one for each team) and two 'Goals' (one for each team)
(tbd) Team Base Destruction - add two 'Bases' (one for each team)
(tdm) Team Deathmatch - add initial 'Spawn Points' for two teams and then add neutral 'Spawn Points' (preferably in clusters of 3 to avoid spawn stacking) elsewhere to allow spawning across the map as the game progresses.  Note: during the first 10 seconds only the team 'Spawn Points' are used, but after that all 'Spawn Points' (even those marked for the other team) are used depending on ally/enemy proximity.
(ffa) Free For All - add neutral spawn points
This is all really important because it has to do with what powerup allows you to cross through the door, and how carrying that powerup affects your plane (e.g. weighs it down). With tbd_coop, you only get a bomb, and they disappear fast when a player dies. So, if you expect a player to carry a bomb across the screen, be prepared to have to go back and get it if they die.

In 1de and ball, you have a little more options. You can coax a 1de_coop or ball_coop to have both demolition charges and balls. So, here you have must more latitude in your game design, and a lost object doesn'thave to respawn everyone. unless you want to, and you don't have to force players to go get the powerup.
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