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  #1  
Old 07-01-2010, 07:12 PM
hurripilot hurripilot is offline
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Default Reverse Thrust discussion : My blatanly unapologetic cry to Beagle to return to Alti

So Biplane just got a buff in the hopes that the QQers will see it as "useful" (whatever the hell that means in a game about 2D playdoh planes and nerf rockets). I believe that it's Reverse thrust's turn for some serious discussion. A rev player in any kind of remotely competitive setting or game will get more **** for his plane choice than even a regular Biplane, so let's figure out how to change that.

In my view, Reverse thrust is like the Biplane, it's a playstyle that requires a very keen sense of positioning and coordination with it's team to be effective, which stands in contrast to many of the other playstyles in this game. Therefore, it has not found favor among those who don't like/can't recognize the validity of such playstyles. That encompasses a great majority of the players of this game. There are some, however, who see a purpose in Reverse Thrust. I ask you, internet airplane friends, what would you do, if anything, to change rev? If you already like it and find it to be effective, perhaps you could share some of your experiences and strategies.

P.S. - Beagle please come back to us
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  #2  
Old 07-01-2010, 07:25 PM
Evan20000 Evan20000 is offline
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I think this perk needs a buff. It has a potentially high skill ceiling, which is a good thing. I'm idealess at the moment, but I'll post back if I think of anything.
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  #3  
Old 07-01-2010, 07:58 PM
Boko Boko is offline
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I had some ideas:

http://altitudegame.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3415
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  #4  
Old 07-01-2010, 09:22 PM
Sarah Palin Sarah Palin is offline
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shoot while flyin ftw
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  #5  
Old 07-01-2010, 09:58 PM
silent skies silent skies is offline
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I almost exclusively use sniplane and reverse whale in the pub servers and do pretty okay with them, I think, ratio-wise anyway. I've tried some reverse bomber as well, but my personal verdict on that is 'meh'.

The problem with reverse thrust in a team-oriented game is that it isn't a team-oriented perk. To most people, reverse is viewed as a perk that lets you get out of sticky situations and preserve yourself, and that's certainly true. The obvious trade-off being that you don't have the energy surplus given by turbo or ultra, and thus you can't push forwards with the team.

If there's gonna be any buff whatsoever, I think it needs to be in the energy department of some kind. Either decrease its energy usage, or give it the mini-turbo or mini-ultra buff that I've seen mentioned a few times. Or maybe both.

Right now, I'm finding it to be a much more defensive perk, especially w/ reverse whale. Reverse (on any plane) is especially great for blocking bombs, even if the person is really close in. There have been countless times when a person thinks they've slipped past me while I was going forward, dropped their bomb, and I've rev'd backwards just in time to turn their full bomb into a partial.

I won't get into details, but rev can in at least some situations be good for keeping a TA at bay, since you have the possibility of covering multiple openings at once. What follows is a complicated dance of him anchoring back and forth, and me reversing to cover the passage he thinks is now open, and that repeated over and over again, until his teammates or mine come to tip the scales.

The problem is that it stunts your offensive capabilities. Skillful reverse is good for racking up kills and many times thwarting bomb runs from the enemy, but not for your team's bomb pushes.
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  #6  
Old 07-01-2010, 10:32 PM
wolf'j'max wolf'j'max is offline
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I have been using the magpie plane lately and it is certainly alot of fun. The only buff i could think of is: (both mentioned by boko)
less energy usage.
Faster acceleration.
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  #7  
Old 07-01-2010, 10:49 PM
Considered Considered is offline
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For Ball I have found rev to be useful at times. I get **** for it, but haters gonna hate. Absolutely there are trade-offs, but I enjoy it too much to not use it.

Why I rev for some plane builds:
- faster braking, accelerating, and turning (better handles like a mfing sport-tuned car)
- 180 degree direction change on a dime, potentially making my movement harder to read
- defensively, can keep yourself between goal and enemy ball carrier WHILE shooting at them
- if someone's T-pass is short, can reverse to grab it (say if you are in front of the goal)
- after being walled, can get back into the action faster
- easily extract stuck balls if a randa's not around
- generally opens up a new world of moving that non-rev's are not privy to

Let me put it this way: yes, your energy recharges a bit faster than mine, or yes, you have a bit more total energy than I do, but can you accelerate even a bit in reverse?

tl;dr: I believe that there are times one can gain a net strategic advantage when using rev.
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  #8  
Old 07-01-2010, 11:39 PM
nesnl nesnl is offline
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Using reverse thrust is basically the same as building a scout. You either get it or you don't.
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  #9  
Old 07-02-2010, 12:58 AM
andy andy is offline
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If we were to buff rev thrust i think we should go more towards a less energy consumption/faster acceleration rather than mini-turbo, mini-ultra which would give it advantage over other energy perks.

Reverse thrust should ONLY give you advantage in manouvrability over other blue perks.
Amongs the things that could be done are:
- Reduce its energy consumption by 50%
- Make the thrust more sensible so it accelerates/decelerates faster
- Make it so using reverse thrust doesnt make you finish all your energy, so it leaves you with 25% of your total energy unused. Basically you would have 75% of the energy usable by reverse thrust and also if you fly with down arrow pressed you still have 25% of energy to shoot with (obviously when you reach 25% of your energy the reverse thrust will act as you have 0 energy making you move fast but not at max speed).
- Give direct activation of reverse, so no actual throttle control, but huge fast changes between rev and normal flying. (This would bring to a totally new playstyle and i dont know if this would be good or would make the perk even more underpowered).
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  #10  
Old 07-02-2010, 02:45 AM
[Y] [Y] is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [Y] View Post
If we're going to buff reverse it should require no energy to reverse, have some sort of auto-stall function that enables quicker activation of the reverse engine, and be more efficient at carrying the bomb (because right now it's so goddamn slow with the bomb).
The bomb and ball shouldn't affect rev plane speed/acceleration at all imo. Giving reverse thrust an advantage in bomb running/ball carrying could give it the team-orientation it needs. The other players would just need to adapt, much like anchor bomb/ball running right now.
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  #11  
Old 07-02-2010, 06:11 AM
hurripilot hurripilot is offline
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So I was playin around with rev bipe today and I have to admit it was quite fun, and I could see some useful things coming from it. I think FU's idea is the most promising suggestion for a buff. Really, I just wanted to bump this thread.
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  #12  
Old 07-03-2010, 03:24 PM
theonemephisto theonemephisto is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy View Post
- Give direct activation of reverse, so no actual throttle control, but huge fast changes between rev and normal flying. (This would bring to a totally new playstyle and i dont know if this would be good or would make the perk even more underpowered).
This would be amazing. Probably hard to implement, I'd imagine you'd have to add an extra button somewhere(or maybe if you press throttle and back at the same time? slightly awkward to do though), but great nonetheless.
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  #13  
Old 07-04-2010, 05:41 AM
Beagle Beagle is offline
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On the contrary, I'd say that'd be the most disastrous thing you could do to reverse and sounds like something said by someone who hasn't used the perk for longer than five minutes. Rev requires delicate throttle changes and making it simply off/on is like saying we should make the planes turn 90 degree angles every time you press left or right.

Reverse does not need huge buffs or it will be the no-brainer choice. Most of the hate is levelled at the loss of energy from either Turbo or Ultra being inexcusable competitively (something I don't agree with but then I never have agreed with the majority on much) so making reverse less energy intensive as suggested in here would placate the majority of the community. Keep in mind however that this same majority doesn't use rev and its mainly just so they stop yelling at me when I rev in ladder.

Managing your energy is all part of flying rev. If anything I'd say buff the plane's agility when revving with the bomb. Amazing bombing runs would be possible every time with rev, but because of how sluggish the bomb makes it, it's a joke to do anything with it while you've got one strapped on.

The only other thing I can think of would be increasing the extra speed/throttle up throttle down you get from having Rev selected. Extra agility would be amazing but would be too overpowered, I think; I played the other day and rev with flexi feels amazingly agile, not sure if it's always been that way and I just haven't played in a while or if it got buffed.

Of course, I've never held rev needs buffs, but I won't say no to them either.
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  #14  
Old 07-04-2010, 06:56 AM
hurripilot hurripilot is offline
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Beagle has returned, therefore I win. gee gee, inactivity, gee gee.
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  #15  
Old 07-04-2010, 02:09 PM
Evan20000 Evan20000 is offline
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Bagle is back!

I like the prospect of a rev buff just for some more perk diversity if anything else.
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