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  #1  
Old 12-25-2009, 06:34 AM
Vania Vania is offline
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Default **** I dont like.

**** there's some kind of consensus about:
-remote is OP
-miranda uncharged shot(spam) is OP


**** I personally dislike:
-biplane's turn is crap, we're basically forced into using flexi-wings. All the best biplane players say flexi is the only option.
-explodet missile uses too little energy.
-biplane's primary uses a lot of energy.
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  #2  
Old 12-25-2009, 06:48 AM
Kuja900 Kuja900 is offline
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Eh remote and randas are fine. In terms of overpoweredness there might be a slight tweak that could be used here and there but their are much bigger fish to fry. Balance wise the main issue for the devs atm should be (in my opinion) making the dogfighter perk into something people would actually want to use, scrapping dumb bombs and getting the bomber a new 3rd red perk and the reworking of thermo.

edit: also slightly buffing laser should be given some thought imo.

Last edited by Kuja900; 12-25-2009 at 05:46 PM.
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  #3  
Old 12-25-2009, 07:04 AM
ryebone ryebone is offline
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imo the biplane's turnrate is fairly comparable to other planes. The catch is that it's primarily a dogfighting plane, making maneuverability THE MOST worthwhile attribute it can have, and hence putting flexiwings above all other green perks in terms of usefulness. It's not necessarily a bad compromise; a biplane with flexi-level turning along with another green perk (heavy or repair) would certainly be OP.

The fact is, I don't think there's a reasonable way of addressing this issue without completely reworking the biplane. Thus it's really a non-issue, and like kuja said, there are more important things worth addressing.
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  #4  
Old 12-25-2009, 07:16 AM
zwanglos zwanglos is offline
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Even if you increased the biplane's base turning rate a bit, biplane users would probably still prefer flexiwings... he who turns fastest shoots first.

If you wanted to increase the biplane's base turn speed so that it matches the current flexiwing turn speed... well, at that point you may as well get rid of flexiwings altogether.
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  #5  
Old 12-25-2009, 07:18 AM
Kuja900 Kuja900 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zwanglos View Post
Even if you increased the biplane's base turning rate a bit, biplane users would probably still prefer flexiwings... he who turns fastest shoots first.

If you wanted to increase the biplane's base turn speed so that it matches the current flexiwing turn speed... well, at that point you may as well get rid of flexiwings altogether.
Biplane is not the only plane that benefits from the flex wings perk you know.
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  #6  
Old 12-25-2009, 07:35 AM
zwanglos zwanglos is offline
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Right, but if you start upping the biplane's turn rate so that it doesn't need flexiwings, then all the other planes (loopy or whatever) would need flexiwings just to keep up w/ biplane - and biplane users could have heavy armor or whatever at the same time.

That would either necessitate upping the other planes' turnrates (which is pointless and redundant) or scrapping flexiwings, allowing biplane to have the generally faster turnrate.

I kinda like it the way it is, tbh.
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  #7  
Old 12-25-2009, 08:05 AM
nesnl nesnl is offline
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This has been gone over many times, but I totally agree, remote mine needs some kind of change so that it isn't this rapid fire butt weapon and is in fact used as what it says: remote mine. I also would like a change to the miranda spamability, but also a slight laser buff. But again, this is all known to lamster/karl and they will get around to it eventually, just like fixing ball mode. Give it time.
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  #8  
Old 12-25-2009, 09:02 AM
andy andy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nesnl View Post
This has been gone over many times, but I totally agree, remote mine needs some kind of change so that it isn't this rapid fire butt weapon and is in fact used as what it says: remote mine. I also would like a change to the miranda spamability, but also a slight laser buff. But again, this is all known to lamster/karl and they will get around to it eventually, just like fixing ball mode. Give it time.
I totally agree, although the miranda spam is fundamental due to the lack of a secondary weapon, i would rather change the fully charged shot to make trickster more balanced.
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  #9  
Old 12-25-2009, 03:02 PM
eth eth is offline
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I don't think I've ever seen a reverse biplane use flexible wings, also protestboy(who is an amazing biplane) uses heavy armor just fine. You're not forced into flexiwings, it's just you letting yourself being limited by the majority.

Dogfighter isn't bad either, as I have now written in countless posts. I have gotten so used to using stall when fighting(because with dogfighter, getting out of a stall is np), that I just end up crashing when playing recoilless. This perk has the same position anchor did some time ago.

Biplane's primary uses a lot of energy? REALLY? Biplane has like the highest burst in the game besides laser, it's not even REMOTELY underpowered and you want the weapons to cost less energy?

Same with explodet missile.. I assume this is just random explodet hate, because the missile takes up a fair bit of energy as is.
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  #10  
Old 12-25-2009, 04:36 PM
Jacques Strap Jacques Strap is offline
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I agree with the biplane's turn rate. I think that it should have the turning rate of a bomber without flexi wings and a slightly better turn rate with flexible wings. Why should a big, slow bomber be more agile than a little, quick biplane? However, this might make the biplane overpowered.
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  #11  
Old 12-25-2009, 07:41 PM
Sarah Palin Sarah Palin is offline
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Loopy's gun should be changed so missiles do not lock targets in midflight. In exchange for this, buff the missile damage a little bit.

This small change would make Loopy play more rewarding, remove some "BS kill" frustration for other planes (offscreen Loopy's volley following you around a corner), and not make Loopy more or less powerful than it already is.

I say all this as a mainline-Loopy player who wants more skill and less "hold F" gameplay.
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  #12  
Old 12-25-2009, 09:03 PM
Vania Vania is offline
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Quote:
Biplane's primary uses a lot of energy? REALLY? Biplane has like the highest burst in the game besides laser, it's not even REMOTELY underpowered and you want the weapons to cost less energy?
Yes, the long range gun (primary) uses lots of energy, just check the plane stats post and compare to other weapons.
Also biplane's burst comes mainly from its secondary weapon, obviously.

Anyway, fixing remote and miranda spam are much more important than my biplane whims.
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  #13  
Old 12-25-2009, 10:22 PM
eth eth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vania View Post
Yes, the long range gun (primary) uses lots of energy, just check the plane stats post and compare to other weapons.
Also biplane's burst comes mainly from its secondary weapon, obviously.

Anyway, fixing remote and miranda spam are much more important than my biplane whims.
Yes - since the biplane's burst comes mainly from D, we can do whatever we want with F. What exactly is your point here? You seem to want biplane to be best at just about everything and then some. The biplane has drawbacks LIKE EVERY OTHER PLANE out there, deal with it instead of crying for complete imbalance.

Oh and your two complaints aren't as massively overpowered as you make them out to be. If they were, we wouldn't see anything but remotes and mirandas. And yes, this is my last DOES NOT APPROVE post.

Last edited by eth; 12-25-2009 at 10:26 PM.
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  #14  
Old 12-25-2009, 11:43 PM
[FN]MONXY FIST [FN]MONXY FIST is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eth View Post
Yes - since the biplane's burst comes mainly from D, we can do whatever we want with F. What exactly is your point here? You seem to want biplane to be best at just about everything and then some. The biplane has drawbacks LIKE EVERY OTHER PLANE out there, deal with it instead of crying for complete imbalance.

Oh and your two complaints aren't as massively overpowered as you make them out to be. If they were, we wouldn't see anything but remotes and mirandas. And yes, this is my last DOES NOT APPROVE post.
I must be on drugs cause that's all i see when i join official 3.
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  #15  
Old 12-26-2009, 12:01 AM
Vania Vania is offline
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Lets see...

This is how I classify the effectiveness of all the planes at short, medium and long range combat.

...............Loopy......Bomber.....Explo.......M iranda(trick)....Biplane(recoiless)
Short........DECENT....GOOD.......GOOD......GOOD.. .............GREAT
Medium.....GREAT......GOOD.......GREAT.....GOOD... ............POOR
Long.........GOOD.......DECENT....DECENT...GOOD... ............N/A

Biplane's primary fires slow, tiny bullets that use a lot of energy for no good damage, it sucks.

All I'm asking is a decent medium range weapon for recoiless, and just less energy usage, not even more damage.


And about miranda and explo being OP:
lineups of 2 explos + 2 mirandas + joker are very popular right now.
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  #16  
Old 12-26-2009, 12:06 AM
OjM OjM is offline
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Why don't you just use that piercing thing? Then there's great long and it works well on medium too. If you want short, you use something that has good short, if you want medium...
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  #17  
Old 12-26-2009, 12:32 AM
Sarah Palin Sarah Palin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vania View Post
Biplane's primary fires slow, tiny bullets that use a lot of energy for no good damage, it sucks.

All I'm asking is a decent medium range weapon for recoiless, and just less energy usage, not even more damage.
In other words, giving biplane Loopy's gun minus tracking?

Yeah that's not ganna happen.
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  #18  
Old 12-26-2009, 12:44 AM
Vania Vania is offline
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Quote:
In other words, giving biplane Loopy's gun minus tracking?
Yeah that's not ganna happen.
God no! That would suck even more.
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  #19  
Old 12-26-2009, 05:27 AM
CCN CCN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vania View Post
Lets see...

This is how I classify the effectiveness of all the planes at short, medium and long range combat.

...............Loopy......Bomber.....Explo.......M iranda(trick)....Biplane(recoiless)
Short........DECENT....GOOD.......GOOD......GOOD.. .............GREAT
Medium.....GREAT......GOOD.......GREAT.....GOOD... ............POOR
Long.........GOOD.......DECENT....DECENT...GOOD... ............N/A

Biplane's primary fires slow, tiny bullets that use a lot of energy for no good damage, it sucks.

All I'm asking is a decent medium range weapon for recoiless, and just less energy usage, not even more damage.


And about miranda and explo being OP:
lineups of 2 explos + 2 mirandas + joker are very popular right now.
Trick good at short range? Stop drinking the coolaide
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  #20  
Old 12-26-2009, 05:28 AM
TomBRowkaH TomBRowkaH is offline
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I think if you split the game up into short middle and long-range combat the biplane looks worse than it is. Remember that while it is bad at long range, you can make up for this by ambushing your enemies. The only time biplane seems hopelessly underpowered to me is in 1-life deathmatch games.

As for the primary fire using too much energy, I rarely if ever find myself shooting for long enough to use all my energy without killing something or being killed. My most common long-range weapon is usually my afterburner, because if someone engages me at long range I usually just run away until I can approach from a better angle.

P.S. yes the miranda is nasty at short range IMO, that warp can kill you awfully fast
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  #21  
Old 12-26-2009, 05:40 AM
Ferret Ferret is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomBRowkaH View Post
My most common long-range weapon is usually my afterburner, because if someone engages me at long range I usually just run away until I can approach from a better angle.
and of course, there is no good angle at which you can approach a miranda or remote mine explodet.
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  #22  
Old 12-26-2009, 07:14 AM
protest boy protest boy is offline
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Flexible wings hasn't been around forever...I and many others have a lot of experience flying biplane without it.

When flexible wings was introduced, it was immediately apparent that it offers nice benefits, but it's not a requirement to play biplane. Really the only difference is that without flexible wings you just need to be a lot more careful about getting into a circle of death with a loopy.

Heavy armor biplane can take a TON of damage. Give it a try. Once you adjust your mind to which maneuvers you can and cannot do, it feels nearly invincible.

I'm sure Lam and Karl will get around to balance again eventually. However, I feel like getting some things off my chest So while this will probably go unnoticed or be forgotten before balance is adjusted , I'm going to list some things anyway:

- I agree, remote mine and miranda spam need to be nerfed slightly. Miranda shouldn't be able to spam more damage than the biplane primary weapon!
- miranda laser needs a SLIGHT buff (increased length, I think)
- miranda shouldn't be able to combo a loopy to death with a shot + warp (decrease warp damage)
- a bouncy miranda shot should not be able to hit the same plane more than once. It should be adsorbed by the plane.

None of these are game breakers, just tweaks I hope they get around to addressing eventually!
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  #23  
Old 12-26-2009, 07:42 AM
Beagle Beagle is offline
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I like how people complain about Biplane needing more turn and manoeuvrability, and yet every self-proclaimed elite player sneers at me for using Rev in anything that isn't a Pub.

Guess its just hard for people to not be incredibly close-minded until they've tried it themselves. I remember back when I got laughed at for using Remote Mines too.
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  #24  
Old 12-26-2009, 07:48 AM
King! King! is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by protest boy View Post
Flexible wings hasn't been around forever...I and many others have a lot of experience flying biplane without it.

When flexible wings was introduced, it was immediately apparent that it offers nice benefits, but it's not a requirement to play biplane. Really the only difference is that without flexible wings you just need to be a lot more careful about getting into a circle of death with a loopy.

Heavy armor biplane can take a TON of damage. Give it a try. Once you adjust your mind to which maneuvers you can and cannot do, it feels nearly invincible.

I'm sure Lam and Karl will get around to balance again eventually. However, I feel like getting some things off my chest So while this will probably go unnoticed or be forgotten before balance is adjusted , I'm going to list some things anyway:

- I agree, remote mine and miranda spam need to be nerfed slightly. Miranda shouldn't be able to spam more damage than the biplane primary weapon!
- miranda laser needs a SLIGHT buff (increased length, I think)
- miranda shouldn't be able to combo a loopy to death with a shot + warp (decrease warp damage)
- a bouncy miranda shot should not be able to hit the same plane more than once. It should be adsorbed by the plane.

None of these are game breakers, just tweaks I hope they get around to addressing eventually!
Agreed. 10
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