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  #1  
Old 01-09-2011, 12:32 AM
shrode shrode is offline
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Default Loopy Overused in Pubs

As a competitive player, I really shouldn't care about this, but I do. I care because I want altitude to get a bigger player-base and that comes from people having fun.

Loopy is too effective for how simple it is to use, which absolutely kills plane diversity in servers filled with lesser-skilled players. 90% of the players are using tracker or double fire loopy in servers that don't have a password. I'm talking Ball bouncy, im talking official 1 and 2, I'm talking Team Official or whatever I was playing in today. All you see is loopies, and that is not good for the game. Loopy spam is not fun to play against, and I could see a lot of players disliking Altitude early on because that is all the game is in those servers. Not only that, but players know that they can do better with loopy than they can with any other plane, so they just stick to that and don't learn the other styles of play, which negatively influences the amount of fun they will have within altitude.

I really think this is hurting altitude as a game right now, and should be addressed. I thought of a few ways to increase the plane diversity in 'nooby' servers.

1. Nerf Loopy's 'Easiness' by any of the following
-Reduce the amount of tracking done on loopy missles
-Reduce the range of loopy missles
-Reduce the length of time EMP lasts
-Reduce/Remove AOE on EMP

2. Make challenges harder to attain.
-This would make people have to play other planes for a longer period of time before getting the achievements

3. Change the unlock system, so everybody starts with at least one perk of every plane.
-This might prevent people from getting super cozy with loopy to begin with.

4. Class limits like in some tf2 servers. If somebody tries to select loopy but your team already has n loopies, where n is a number set by server admin, you are not allowed to select loopy.
-Personally think this is a bad option, but it is an idea.

Something needs to happen
  #2  
Old 01-09-2011, 12:35 AM
Sean Sean is offline
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Suggestions 1,2,3,4 get +1 from me.
  #3  
Old 01-09-2011, 12:39 AM
Torrent Torrent is offline
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i play loopy cause i want experience but yeah can you fix it
  #4  
Old 01-09-2011, 12:46 AM
Ribilla Ribilla is offline
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+ 1 for 2 & 4, not sure I agree with the others. This seems like a loosely disguided "OH GOD NERF EMP" Thread. Also, if very new players hate bomber the class limits may force them into it, perhaps they only apply to lvl 25+.

The other thing is, I don't agree, I play on the official servers a fair amount and there seems to bed good plane diversity, if anything bomber & randa are slightly under represented, but nothing else. Perhaps this is different on some of the other pubs, but read the guide to ball on these forums, loopies are the backbone of any team.

I realise the problem, I got my friend into TF2 recently, he has about 20 hours playtime and has literally only played soldier the whole time, he has only tried 4 of the 9 classes and insists on only playing 2Fort.

If this is a problem can I suggest a tutorial section on the main page, with videos, where each video (one for each plane/perk) gets unlocked as you unlock the plane/perk ingame. It should have tips on how it should be used and some footage of it pwning people to go with it. Maybe even some suggested builds. Most of the material is on the forums already and I am sure the community would oblige for some tasty tasty CP. This might also improve base skill level, because I was on offical 3 today, and some people are awful, just awful.
  #5  
Old 01-09-2011, 01:16 AM
VipMattMan VipMattMan is offline
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If you have a good randa and go into the bouncy server you instantly rock the server. If i was a noob I'd think randa was OP.

Loopy is heavily used for a multitude of reasons. First plane you get, balance between offense/defense, ease of use.

Once you get into the higher levels of competition people HAVE to play various planes to remain competitive. I'd use influence in competitive play as a marker of balance, rather than frequency of use by new players.

Edit- In regards to the point, which is that there's not much diversity in the noob servers, i think about all you can do is show up and use other planes to show them there are other things to shoot for. I'd say it's likely that people starting with an effective plane actually keeps them around longer, rather than deterring them from the game.

Last edited by VipMattMan; 01-09-2011 at 01:22 AM.
  #6  
Old 01-09-2011, 02:37 AM
Pieface Pieface is offline
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You should have seen the game's plane diversity before they removed the unlimited demo (with only loopy and bomber). You'd probably ragequit.

Last edited by Pieface; 01-09-2011 at 02:39 AM.
  #7  
Old 01-09-2011, 02:45 AM
Fartface Fartface is offline
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1: Agreed
2: I don't know what the hell that means
3: Good idea, but only for red perks so that you'd have to unlock others by leveling
4: No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no etc. Playing random planes would lose its purpose if you weren't allowed to use half of them
  #8  
Old 01-09-2011, 03:28 AM
Evan20000 Evan20000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VipMattMan View Post
If you have a good randa and go into the bouncy server you instantly rock the server. If i was a noob I'd think randa was OP.
Perkless randa eats nub loopies alive.

The loop spam isn't that bad from the limited amount of games I play in pubs anymore. I've seen a ton of sniplane wannabees, but that's not an issue at all.
  #9  
Old 01-09-2011, 03:32 AM
Loopy Loopy is offline
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Don't nerf me, bro. Seriously though, the low health of loopy makes up for his strengths. Stop crying because you keep getting wrecked by swarms of loopies.
  #10  
Old 01-09-2011, 03:39 AM
Sean Sean is offline
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to quote one of my fav alti players... "obvious smurf is obvious"

<3 u FU
  #11  
Old 01-09-2011, 03:59 AM
Greekjr14 Greekjr14 is offline
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the 3rd one one the first suggestion.....tHANK YOUUUUU. EITHER DO THAT OR MAKE IT SO THAT THE EMP EFFECT IS AFFECTED WHETHER THE ENEMY PLANE HAS ON HA OR FLEXI. that is all
  #12  
Old 01-10-2011, 03:49 AM
Aero_Beast Aero_Beast is offline
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take away aoe and make the loopy aim **** tracking
  #13  
Old 01-10-2011, 11:41 AM
Ribilla Ribilla is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aero_Beast View Post
take away aoe and make the loopy aim **** tracking
Perhaps you should stop flaming loopy and start making some constructive suggestions that won't destroy the balance of the planes.

kthx.
  #14  
Old 01-10-2011, 04:25 PM
Evan20000 Evan20000 is offline
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If Loops didn't have its EMP as strong as it is, it would be severly UP in serious play. Don't change it at all please.
  #15  
Old 01-11-2011, 06:20 AM
elxir elxir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan20000 View Post
If Loops didn't have its EMP as strong as it is, it would be severly UP in serious play. Don't change it at all please.
This times 1000000000000000.

Loopy is already wicked hard in serious TBD, no need to make it harder.

Furthermore, loopy is used the most because it's the most basic, not because it's the best. The casual player wants to be able to fly fast and kill things, and not worry about ridiculous nonsense like learning the anchor line or remote mine timing and range.

Loopy is just the most fun for most players. It's not overpowered.

ETA: Re: suggestion three:

I could get behind this. Perhaps in the alternative, make it so you pick which plane you unlock at level 6, 12, and 20, or whatever they are.

Last edited by elxir; 01-11-2011 at 06:23 AM.
  #16  
Old 01-11-2011, 11:10 PM
Boko Boko is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elxir View Post
This times 1000000000000000.

Loopy is already wicked hard in serious TBD, no need to make it harder.

Furthermore, loopy is used the most because it's the most basic, not because it's the best. The casual player wants to be able to fly fast and kill things, and not worry about ridiculous nonsense like learning the anchor line or remote mine timing and range.

Loopy is just the most fun for most players. It's not overpowered.

ETA: Re: suggestion three:

I could get behind this. Perhaps in the alternative, make it so you pick which plane you unlock at level 6, 12, and 20, or whatever they are.
I agree, EMP is good in ball but very hard to master in tbd and often not used at all (for all I know). Do not nerf!

Giving more options of planes earlier on is a better idea imo, I mean what's the second most played plane in (noob) pubs and what's the second plane you unlock? That's right.
  #17  
Old 01-12-2011, 01:46 AM
SnipErlite SnipErlite is offline
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To be honest, I don't think reducing the effectiveness of the Loopy's weaponry and stuff is a good idea. It would only lead to more flamewars and people complaining it's gone too far the other way and too difficult.

I think the class amount restrictions, la Team Fortress 2, would be very effective. It doesn't cause the Loopy to become redundant and encourages more varied plane choices.

Tbh at the moment it does suck when an enemy team is 5 or 6 or even 7/7 loopies...there's almost nothing one can do to counter this, and if they all have Double Fire on.

Oh god the spam 0_O

Restricting the amount, even to say less than half of the team (4 loopies on a 7-man team is acceptable), would solve the main problem I believe
  #18  
Old 01-12-2011, 03:47 AM
Nikon Nikon is offline
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I think your right that it's hurting the game, but I think #3 is the only one to fix it.
  #19  
Old 01-12-2011, 03:50 AM
Aero_Beast Aero_Beast is offline
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just take away the aoe of the emp make them atleast have to aim something
  #20  
Old 01-12-2011, 09:39 AM
Boko Boko is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipErlite View Post
Restricting the amount, even to say less than half of the team (4 loopies on a 7-man team is acceptable), would solve the main problem I believe
This will create the new problem of people leaving servers because they can't play loopy and all servers dying to 4v4 teams which are not fun resulting in dead servers. gg

And 4 loopies on a 7-man team is not acceptable.

Giving them the other planes earlier is a better solution imo.

#3 all the way.
  #21  
Old 01-12-2011, 11:17 AM
mlopes mlopes is offline
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+1 to introducing other planes to new players. Is sad to see so few new whales and bombers.
  #22  
Old 01-12-2011, 01:24 PM
CCN CCN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipErlite View Post
To be honest, I don't think reducing the effectiveness of the Loopy's weaponry and stuff is a good idea. It would only lead to more flamewars and people complaining it's gone too far the other way and too difficult.

I think the class amount restrictions, la Team Fortress 2, would be very effective. It doesn't cause the Loopy to become redundant and encourages more varied plane choices.

Tbh at the moment it does suck when an enemy team is 5 or 6 or even 7/7 loopies...there's almost nothing one can do to counter this, and if they all have Double Fire on.

Oh god the spam 0_O

Restricting the amount, even to say less than half of the team (4 loopies on a 7-man team is acceptable), would solve the main problem I believe
learn to play.
If you think 7 loopies is an "unbeatable team", you need to stop making excuses and learn to ****ing play.
  #23  
Old 01-12-2011, 01:31 PM
Ribilla Ribilla is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipErlite View Post
To be honest, I don't think reducing the effectiveness of the Loopy's weaponry and stuff is a good idea. It would only lead to more flamewars and people complaining it's gone too far the other way and too difficult.

I think the class amount restrictions, la Team Fortress 2, would be very effective. It doesn't cause the Loopy to become redundant and encourages more varied plane choices.

Tbh at the moment it does suck when an enemy team is 5 or 6 or even 7/7 loopies...there's almost nothing one can do to counter this, and if they all have Double Fire on.

Oh god the spam 0_O

Restricting the amount, even to say less than half of the team (4 loopies on a 7-man team is acceptable), would solve the main problem I believe
I'll list the planes that I think would easily take this team apart:

Randa, whale, bip, bomber.

Unless you are playing loopy yourself you should be able to crush a 7 loopy team like so much dirt on your shoe.
  #24  
Old 01-12-2011, 01:33 PM
blln4lyf blln4lyf is offline
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Meh, there are 2 many ball Miranda's now..I'd love to see MORE loopies.
  #25  
Old 01-12-2011, 02:08 PM
tomato man tomato man is offline
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+1 to change the unlock system, so everybody starts with at least one perk of every plane.
  #26  
Old 01-12-2011, 07:26 PM
elxir elxir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blln4lyf View Post
Meh, there are 2 many ball Miranda's now..I'd love to see MORE loopies.
lol sad but true
  #27  
Old 01-12-2011, 07:38 PM
Zombi Zombi is offline
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2 many randas in pubs?? LIES
  #28  
Old 01-12-2011, 08:13 PM
Demuyt Demuyt is offline
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Yes, randas are getting nubier every day.
  #29  
Old 01-13-2011, 11:10 AM
Zombi Zombi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demuyt View Post
Yes, randas are getting nubier every day.
Yep, and loopies are getting proer olol
  #30  
Old 01-13-2011, 05:38 PM
Jayfourke Jayfourke is offline
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EMP is massively underused, IMO. People complain about missile spam, but EMP is where the real damage lies. Especially in enclosed spaces or harder to navigate maps. I reckon that about half of my kills, maybe more, come from people crashing into things after I EMP them.

Also, I love that Sin mentioned the whole "loopy is fun" aspect. Far too many people (especially in ladder) miss that this is a GAME, and it's meant to be FUN.
  #31  
Old 01-15-2011, 06:25 PM
SnipErlite SnipErlite is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boko View Post
This will create the new problem of people leaving servers because they can't play loopy and all servers dying to 4v4 teams which are not fun resulting in dead servers. gg

And 4 loopies on a 7-man team is not acceptable.

Giving them the other planes earlier is a better solution imo.

#3 all the way.
Hmm you may be right. Perhaps they could trial it?

Or, I assume something like this has been thought of. Fair enough.
  #32  
Old 01-15-2011, 06:41 PM
SnipErlite SnipErlite is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCN View Post
learn to play.
If you think 7 loopies is an "unbeatable team", you need to stop making excuses and learn to ****ing play.
Probably. In fairness I've never played in a coherent team that actually works together, resulting in me having to try and take on 3 or so loopies by myself in open space (I play a lot of ball_football).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribilla View Post
I'll list the planes that I think would easily take this team apart:

Randa, whale, bip, bomber.

Unless you are playing loopy yourself you should be able to crush a 7 loopy team like so much dirt on your shoe.
EDIT: Oops this was double, sorry. Will edit later into one later if I remember.

Yeah well, maybe I suck then. But when there's an enemy team comprised of various planes it's a whole lot more enjoyable to play against them, even if they still win. Fighting against purely loopies is in no way fun.
  #33  
Old 01-15-2011, 06:46 PM
CCN CCN is offline
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Just a tip:

Maybe switch maps and/or game style if you want a change.


"Doctor when I move my arm like this it hurts."
"Stop moving your arm like that."
  #34  
Old 01-15-2011, 06:57 PM
shrode shrode is offline
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yeah loopy is pretty overpowered on ball_football which for some idiodic reason all the newer players get off to.

so the question becomes- do new players like ball_football because loopy is overpowered on it? or do new players like loopy because ball_football is their favorite map?
  #35  
Old 01-15-2011, 09:57 PM
V.T V.T is offline
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Being a new player, I feel that the loopy is overpowered just because of the range and agility combination. I'd be fine with one or the other, but as a biplane flyer, it sucks to get missile-whored from across the map, only to be outmaneuvered when you get up close. Nerf one or the other. EMP is fine as it is IMO, it's annoying but fine.

I happen to like football, but what ends up happening is that I end up being the only biplane in a lobby with 13 Loopys. Needless to say, I get raped.
  #36  
Old 01-15-2011, 10:52 PM
elxir elxir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shrode View Post
yeah loopy is pretty overpowered on ball_football which for some idiodic reason all the newer players get off to.

so the question becomes- do new players like ball_football because loopy is overpowered on it? or do new players like loopy because ball_football is their favorite map?
meh they just like it because it requires no flying ability to be decent. people like being good without effort.

i can play any plane on football and be successful, it just so happens that when you remove all obstacles the seeker missiles become more powerful.

give a good enough player bad enough competition and everything becomes OP

names deleted to protect the innocent

  #37  
Old 01-16-2011, 03:08 AM
Loopy Loopy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elxir View Post
This times 1000000000000000.

Loopy is already wicked hard in serious TBD, no need to make it harder.

Furthermore, loopy is used the most because it's the most basic, not because it's the best. The casual player wants to be able to fly fast and kill things, and not worry about ridiculous nonsense like learning the anchor line or remote mine timing and range.

Loopy is just the most fun for most players. It's not overpowered.

ETA: Re: suggestion three:

I could get behind this. Perhaps in the alternative, make it so you pick which plane you unlock at level 6, 12, and 20, or whatever they are.
Exactly how I feel, well said.
  #38  
Old 01-19-2011, 10:57 PM
kirbmasta kirbmasta is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pieface View Post
You should have seen the game's plane diversity before they removed the unlimited demo (with only loopy and bomber). You'd probably ragequit.
ohh god, came in here to say this...the game was almost all loopy...
  #39  
Old 07-27-2011, 03:55 PM
iamjagman iamjagman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elxir View Post
meh they just like it because it requires no flying ability to be decent. people like being good without effort.

i can play any plane on football and be successful, it just so happens that when you remove all obstacles the seeker missiles become more powerful.

give a good enough player bad enough competition and everything becomes OP

names deleted to protect the innocent

-snip-
Lol. Miranda relies on cover. Miranda will never be successful on such a wide open map as ball_football. I continue to try anyway :P.

-------------------------


Quote:
Originally Posted by Inofaith View Post
Unlock loopy as the last plane.

Get ppl to try planes that require aiming first.

This I agree with. They need to actually work hard before they get an easy break. H*ll, they should make Miranda the first one so that people will exercise more caution. Start them off with good habits, and they will keep them and in the end become more experienced players.

Last edited by iamjagman; 07-27-2011 at 03:58 PM.
  #40  
Old 07-27-2011, 04:20 PM
Demuyt Demuyt is offline
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How about switching Loopy with Biplane in order of unlocking and highlighting the more flexible but less armored aspect of the Loopy.
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