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  #41  
Old 07-07-2010, 06:10 PM
ufo ufo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elxir View Post
the best games are those where all players are taking it reasonably seriously, using an effective combination of planes, and all players are competent enough to see the game developing and respond as needed to help their team.
wouldn't it be great if this were the norm? unfortunately its not, and it never will be. i've been in only a handful of legit tbd ladder games and maybe like 30 good ball games. i've also lost plenty of games because a rev user wasn't exactly playing the most effectively, beagle even comes to mind on several occasions. this doesn't mean that they lost the game for the team.

the game is balanced in such a way that rev is completely viable if used properly, but it seems like enuff people are bitching about it that y'all might get your way. i'd like to hear what nobo thinks before the waaaahmbulance convoy continues, i'm certainly done for now.
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  #42  
Old 07-07-2010, 06:12 PM
Evan20000 Evan20000 is offline
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I think a better solution for this would be just buffing Rev/Dumb bombs and calling it a day. This better serves diversity and people (myself included) stop QQing. Everyone gets cake.
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  #43  
Old 07-07-2010, 06:13 PM
Kuja900 Kuja900 is offline
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I have yet to find a player who can prove reverse thrusts viability to me, what evidence do you have for its viability in competitive play?
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  #44  
Old 07-07-2010, 06:14 PM
Kuja900 Kuja900 is offline
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Originally Posted by Evan20000 View Post
I think a better solution for this would be just buffing Rev/Dumb bombs and calling it a day. This better serves diversity and people (myself included) stop QQing. Everyone gets cake.
Dumb bombs should be scrapped for a new red perk imo, how exactly would you rework either of them? I cant even begin to imagine what a rev thrust buff would be like.
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  #45  
Old 07-07-2010, 06:24 PM
ufo ufo is offline
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Evidence for previous use of rev in an effective manner competitively and the ability for someone to use the perk effectively in a competitive setting are not mutually exclusive.

To quote The Santa Clause:
"Have you ever seen a million dollars?"
"Uh..no"
"Well, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist."

I've said all I'm gonna say tho. Like class, I don't rly give a ****. I just wish everyone else would relax about such an arbitrary and subjective subject.
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  #46  
Old 07-07-2010, 06:29 PM
Evan20000 Evan20000 is offline
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Originally Posted by Kuja900 View Post
Dumb bombs should be scrapped for a new red perk imo, how exactly would you rework either of them? I cant even begin to imagine what a rev thrust buff would be like.
Possible rev buffs were posted in the other thread (I think only 1 or 2 of them actually fix it though), as for dumb bombs.... yeah, I dunno either.
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  #47  
Old 07-07-2010, 06:37 PM
Kuja900 Kuja900 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ufo View Post
Evidence for previous use of rev in an effective manner competitively and the ability for someone to use the perk effectively in a competitive setting are not mutually exclusive.

To quote The Santa Clause:
"Have you ever seen a million dollars?"
"Uh..no"
"Well, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist."

I've said all I'm gonna say tho. Like class, I don't rly give a ****. I just wish everyone else would relax about such an arbitrary and subjective subject.
Given that the perk has been around for as long as it has and the community has yet to see any such results I think we can safely assume it is not up to par in its current incarnation.
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  #48  
Old 07-07-2010, 11:58 PM
Sarah Palin Sarah Palin is offline
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Originally Posted by tgleaf View Post
In defense of conservatism, many ladder matches come down to the wire (not all, of course... there are still inexplicable 6-1 games and what not).
There are actually many 6-1 and 6-2 games because of flaws in the ladder model.

The biggest problems are:

1. Plane imbalance. It's possible to pick two "balanced" teams where one will always lose because it has an unbalanced plane composition. In theory you could even have a "balanced" all whale vs all loopy game.

2. Map imbalance. It's possible to pick two "balanced" teams where one team has a far superior record on the map than another. As an example I win 3/4 of my games on Darkwar and lose an equally skewed number of my games on Grotto.

3. Plane mixing. The ladder can't accurately rank players who use 2 or more plane setups unless they are roughly equally good at all of them.


3 is probably not fixable but 1 and 2 definitely are. And since they happen more often than people using silly perks, the focus should be there.
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  #49  
Old 07-08-2010, 04:05 AM
Sunaku Sunaku is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elxir View Post
the best games are those where all players are taking it reasonably seriously, using an effective combination of planes, and all players are competent enough to see the game developing and respond as needed to help their team.
Says the guy who plays random plane setup on ladder.
Oh credibility, I shout your name but I only hear an echo.
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  #50  
Old 07-11-2010, 08:47 AM
matattack matattack is offline
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i just wanted to say props to fo for sayin what he been sayin cause thats what im sayin.
srsly if ur gonna blame the other guy, then grow up n play better.
i could have every right in that case to say dont play thermo because i think its bad, and because u were playing it and we lost i blame you.
really now..
if the game allows the perk, then shouldnt the ladder?
anything goes imo. if ur stuck with the baddie, play better
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  #51  
Old 07-11-2010, 02:57 PM
andy andy is offline
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Originally Posted by matattack View Post
if the game allows the perk, then shouldnt the ladder?
anything goes imo.
The game also allows for full random and perkless setups, would they be useful for the team?
Its about what benefits your team not what is fun/allowed.
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  #52  
Old 07-11-2010, 03:02 PM
Smushface Smushface is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah Palin View Post
There are actually many 6-1 and 6-2 games because of flaws in the ladder model.

The biggest problems are:

1. Plane imbalance. It's possible to pick two "balanced" teams where one will always lose because it has an unbalanced plane composition. In theory you could even have a "balanced" all whale vs all loopy game.

2. Map imbalance. It's possible to pick two "balanced" teams where one team has a far superior record on the map than another. As an example I win 3/4 of my games on Darkwar and lose an equally skewed number of my games on Grotto.

3. Plane mixing. The ladder can't accurately rank players who use 2 or more plane setups unless they are roughly equally good at all of them.


3 is probably not fixable but 1 and 2 definitely are. And since they happen more often than people using silly perks, the focus should be there.
Honestly, I used to complain about plane imbalance too but after I thought about it, I like the current implementation of no plane balance. If every game I played was "balanced" with the 3 heavy / 2 light plane that has somewhat become standard then games would get incredibly repetitive and boring. Being forced to play with and against a random motley of planes forces you to think on your feet, adjust your playstyle, and gets you out of your comfort zone, making you an all around better player.
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  #53  
Old 07-11-2010, 05:01 PM
GGQ GGQ is offline
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Just read this thread. There should absolutely not be a ban on any perks in ladder. That's silly.
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  #54  
Old 07-11-2010, 06:45 PM
Evan20000 Evan20000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smushface View Post
Honestly, I used to complain about plane imbalance too but after I thought about it, I like the current implementation of no plane balance. If every game I played was "balanced" with the 3 heavy / 2 light plane that has somewhat become standard then games would get incredibly repetitive and boring. Being forced to play with and against a random motley of planes forces you to think on your feet, adjust your playstyle, and gets you out of your comfort zone, making you an all around better player.
Except for those games when you get 3 biplanes, 1 bomber and a miranda. Then you just autolose.
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  #55  
Old 07-11-2010, 06:50 PM
Kuja900 Kuja900 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smushface View Post
Honestly, I used to complain about plane imbalance too but after I thought about it, I like the current implementation of no plane balance. If every game I played was "balanced" with the 3 heavy / 2 light plane that has somewhat become standard then games would get incredibly repetitive and boring. Being forced to play with and against a random motley of planes forces you to think on your feet, adjust your playstyle, and gets you out of your comfort zone, making you an all around better player.
I must disagree, adjusting your play outside of the metagame does not make you a better player imo. Getting used to less planned out setups just makes you develop habits/play styles that are useless against an organized well composed entity.
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  #56  
Old 07-11-2010, 07:25 PM
ufo ufo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy View Post
Its about what benefits your team not what is fun
loooooool
like...wut?
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  #57  
Old 07-11-2010, 07:44 PM
hurripilot hurripilot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ufo View Post
loooooool
like...wut?
fofo, you and I are from a bygone era. A new order has descended upon us, an order of basement-dwellers trying to justify their nerd rage. These are sad times, my friend.
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  #58  
Old 07-11-2010, 07:48 PM
Kuja900 Kuja900 is offline
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You want fun go to off 3, ladder is a place reserved for a strictly competitive environment imo.
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  #59  
Old 07-11-2010, 08:18 PM
silent skies silent skies is offline
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I'm waiting to see Nike sponsorship and a line of Altitude sneakers (with air pumps).
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  #60  
Old 07-11-2010, 08:25 PM
Evan20000 Evan20000 is offline
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Nike would bribe Nobo to put Tiger Woods into the #1 slot on the ladder.

He would also rage so hard when he lost that he would make ACE players look calm and civil.
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  #61  
Old 07-11-2010, 08:44 PM
ufo ufo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuja900 View Post
You want fun go to off 3, ladder is a place reserved for a strictly competitive environment imo.
if you want fun, go play a videogame online. o wait

qq
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  #62  
Old 07-11-2010, 08:49 PM
Kuja900 Kuja900 is offline
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I will clarify, if you want to mess around go to official 3. Messing around in ladder servers ruins the fun for the rest of us.
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  #63  
Old 07-11-2010, 09:23 PM
silent skies silent skies is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ufo View Post
if you want fun, go play a videogame offline. o wait

qq
Fixed.

Quote:
Messing around in ladder servers ruins the fun for the rest of us.
You're not supposed to be having fun in the first place, it's ladder.
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  #64  
Old 07-12-2010, 09:19 PM
countryninja countryninja is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herodadotus View Post
Well, I agree that these setups are bad for a team. I hesitate to say people use these intentionally to screw the team, though. I think flexi and rev thrust together is overall a bad combination. One or the other, not both. (And preferably flexi over rev right now.) Maybe we need to just tell these players why the setup is inferior, unless they're just doing it to be obstinant.
I agree Herodadotus, I am just a bit curious as to why these setups are even available ( at all ) If they are so bad. On the other hand, maybe the creators of Altitude left the setup to be chosen by each individual player's liking. I do understand that Ladder is a Private server and their opinions obviously will overrule what anyone thinks, so maybe the Ladder admins could possibly have a patch made where the setups that are not acceptable, could not be used in that server? Not sure if It can be done or not, just an Idea. This sure would stop a lot of fussing and fighting. ( Which really gets old )
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  #65  
Old 07-12-2010, 10:27 PM
elxir elxir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by countryninja View Post
I agree Herodadotus, I am just a bit curious as to why these setups are even available ( at all ) If they are so bad. On the other hand, maybe the creators of Altitude left the setup to be chosen by each individual player's liking. I do understand that Ladder is a Private server and their opinions obviously will overrule what anyone thinks, so maybe the Ladder admins could possibly have a patch made where the setups that are not acceptable, could not be used in that server? Not sure if It can be done or not, just an Idea. This sure would stop a lot of fussing and fighting. ( Which really gets old )
The server admin can already define what plane setups are or aren't allowed within the server.
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  #66  
Old 07-13-2010, 03:44 PM
A Nipple A Nipple is offline
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can we get some banege on using ace instincts its got no roll in tbd ladder! every time i have seen people use it they dont even get bars!
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  #67  
Old 07-13-2010, 04:43 PM
Evan20000 Evan20000 is offline
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I'm a little disturbed. Yesterday, I played a few games using Trick/HA/Ace and didn't get called out once for it. I only ask that everyone gets the same treatment regarding perk selection if we're going to be elitists.
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  #68  
Old 07-13-2010, 05:59 PM
Wok3N^ Wok3N^ is offline
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To be honest, the best way to solve this problem is that if there is someone using perks that aren't favorable by his/her team, that team should ask an admin (assuming there is one in the server) to force a perk change and the admin can grant the change or let play continue.
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  #69  
Old 07-13-2010, 06:13 PM
hurripilot hurripilot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wok3N^ View Post
To be honest, the best way to solve this problem is that if there is someone using perks that aren't favorable by his/her team, that team should ask an admin (assuming there is one in the server) to force a perk change and the admin can grant the change or let play continue.
What would happen if an admin banned a perk during play? Would the player using the perk get an auto ban, or would they just lose the perk from their setup?
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  #70  
Old 07-13-2010, 06:26 PM
matattack matattack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan20000 View Post
I'm a little disturbed. Yesterday, I played a few games using Trick/HA/Ace and didn't get called out once for it. I only ask that everyone gets the same treatment regarding perk selection if we're going to be elitists.
exactly. however, there still shouldnt be any "treatement" regarding perk selection.

i mean just because its competitive doesnt mean there isnt any fun involved. nor is there messing around..as i do all the time, most likely causing my team to fail because of my high ranking. however, when people ask me to change i would change for them. as important as it seems to try to reinforce the issue, asking for a change should always be step one..not bans, kicks, or admin-change-whatever-thingys. seriously the admins have enough on their hands dealing with all the complaints.
if that still doesnt work then tough patuties? i mean damn? i lost a ladder game? maybe next game ill be on the opposite team of the guy who "lost the game for me" and win a game?
it shouldnt really be that big of a deal guys. if ur good enough, u will eventually hit the top ranks...with or without bans or lame people.
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  #71  
Old 07-14-2010, 03:21 AM
Wok3N^ Wok3N^ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hurripilot View Post
What would happen if an admin banned a perk during play? Would the player using the perk get an auto ban, or would they just lose the perk from their setup?
No the admin would enforce that the plane setup isn't allowed and if that player still continued to use it, he/she would be banned.
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  #72  
Old 07-14-2010, 04:12 AM
Evan20000 Evan20000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matattack View Post
if ur good enough, u will eventually hit the top ranks...with or without bans or lame people.
Or you can do what I did. I got lucky a few days ago where only people rank 30 and above were in the server, and we went at it for about 5 hours. I slowly climbed to the top because Ingbo and UFO were on my team for most of it. >.>
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  #73  
Old 07-15-2010, 04:22 AM
-MH-CaptainVogez -MH-CaptainVogez is offline
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I must say, I use time anchor + reverse and notice it pisses people off, even in normal servers.

My argument is that if you play with a plane and become familiar with it, then you would be no better of playing with another.
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  #74  
Old 07-15-2010, 04:49 AM
Beagle Beagle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy View Post
Its about what benefits your team not what is fun/allowed.
Oh look, now I remember why I keep leaving this game
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  #75  
Old 07-15-2010, 05:06 AM
elxir elxir is offline
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Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
Oh look, now I remember why I keep leaving this game
non-ladder servers are that way ---->
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  #76  
Old 07-15-2010, 05:30 AM
Beagle Beagle is offline
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When nobo enforces NO FUN ALLOWED on the ladder servers I'll be happy to leave, until then I enjoy 5v5 with people of reasonable skill
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  #77  
Old 07-28-2010, 04:06 PM
evilarsenal evilarsenal is offline
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i played maybe 5 games in TBD today, with 3 noobs who used ACE instincs who couldnt even rack up kills

can we ban ACE instincts? or atleast, if i ask someone to change and they don't do it, can we kick them?

I won a game in ball 6-3 or something even with Jedi Mind Sh*t playing with Ace, he changed after 6 goals were scored, but still, the game was 20 minutes long.

I come to play good games, i dont care what my rating is (its horrible) and i get frustrated when someone uses ace and cant even get kills. I ask them, and FU the other day was kicked for asking someone to change it

Can i get some sort of answer for these noobs :[, what should i do? i don't want to sit through it,
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  #78  
Old 07-28-2010, 04:15 PM
tomato man tomato man is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ufo View Post
i'm not. i don't see any problem with any setup.

its a game.
true, keep in the mind that this is just a game, and if ppl want play for fun they can
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  #79  
Old 07-28-2010, 04:17 PM
evilarsenal evilarsenal is offline
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its ladder, if u want to play the game go to official tres, ladder was set as a specific clear atmosphere

don't troll 9 people and don't waste 9 people's time in ladder, or 11 whatever
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  #80  
Old 07-28-2010, 04:31 PM
shrode shrode is offline
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I can't believe we won that game with Jedi Mind SH** on our team evil. he was remote flexi ace if my memory serves me right, and at one point he was like 4-13 and at the bottom of our team. And he would not switch or even reply to our requests to switch even after we explained that ace instincts doesn't help him at all.

Then he broke the player count the next game and quickly got kicked ha. He had to have been griefing intentionally.
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