tbd_chess

[silent skies]

Okay, v0.6. Hopefully I'll be hitting 1.0 soon :P

[Map file. I'd appreciate it if someone could get it on a test server or something, since I don't have one of my own.]

- Replaced the queen/pawn shape from v0.4, but left out the horizontal bar.
- 'Pawn circle' moved forward a bit. Makes it much harder (but not impossible) to get lob bombs. You have to be reaaaally precise for the lob bomb, and I only ever got a partial from the long-lob.
- Background is now white/green marble instead of brown wood.
- Added a couple of images to the background that are situated around the powerups/bombs. 1 2. (Doesn't show up in the art preview below)
- The objects are now just solid black, and tbh I think it looks pretty good. (Thanks Mandrad )

I've left the chess pieces the same as before, this time out of necessity actually. The white pieces wouldn't show up on the white marble if I removed the outline I'm concerned it might still be a problem on the eye, but not sure. Let me know!



(positions of turrets/bases/PUs all same as before, so no need for an editor shot)

[mlopes]

It's starting to look good, in terms of palyability and visually. Can't wait to try it.

[Mandrad]

Looks good.
Minor objects positioning fix; some of your obstacles are like 5 pixels away from squares borders (examples: horses base in the middle, pawns center top, pawns over bases) if you move those objects so that minimal distances disapear it all be smoother to the eye.
Black outlines could have disapear
If white pieces on white background, gets to be tricky on the eyes, and if ur using photoshop, you can use levels to darken a little the white squares without changing the black ones (im assuming its all in 1 image). You can also change the pieces colour (i like this black/white classic).
Nice job

[silent skies]

I think if I change the outline of the white pieces to solid black, then it should work. The contrast is strong enough so that the eyes don't get messed up looking at it, and also the solid black outline blends with the solid black objects.

I'll try removing the dark-gray outlines from the black pieces, making them solid black as well, and I'll make the bishop-cross on the black pieces white.

[silent skies]

...or maybe I'll just do art to it instead. I realized I could use a transparent black 16 to mimic charcoal sketching (which I've practiced a bit on paper), and this was the result:



I'm sure others could do better, but I think this is an improvement over the clipart. Now I just need to work on the other pieces...

[elxir]

looks exactly like heights, so i approve :P

[Mandrad]

Its better to have ur art than someones clipart. Maybe u could give that effect to the bases pieces sit on.

[silent skies]

Haha, this project is becoming far more work than I thought it'd originally be. It's pretty fun, though, so I don't mind :P

Originally Posted by Mandrad

Its better to have ur art than someones clipart. Maybe u could give that effect to the bases pieces sit on.

Yeah, came to the same conclusion myself earlier today. Et voila:



I also threw in some shading. I'm going to have the shadows on a separate layer in the map, so that they fall over the planes when they pass under them.

(The shadows are misaligned by a couple pixels in the shot, will fix later)

[Edit: just realized the shadow from the top pawn isn't falling on the top part of the tile. Will also fix later]

[Clapon]

I really really like the looks of this!!!

Cant wait to play it Alty could always use more maps and great map makers!!

[mlopes]

niiiiiiiice

[silent skies]

Progress is slow but steady, the new art direction is taking awhile to work out but I think it's going pretty okay.

Here are the knight, rook and bishop that I finished.



Notes:
- big pieces are big. They will be scaled down considerably to fit the dimensions of the map.
- Pieces will be recolored to fit the black+white theme (darker than the rook+bishop for black, lighter than the knight for white). For now I'm just working out the general shapes and shadings.
- I cannibalized the rook base I drew and used it for the bishop, since they are usually somewhat the same shape but sized differently. I tweaked the shading a bit on the bishop base, though, to make it look more rounded, but forgot to apply the same effect to the rook. Will do so in the future.
- I've been working w/ reference photos to make the pieces, as such I realize the pieces aren't all aligned the same way (a quick look at the bases of the pieces will tell you that much). I don't consider this to be an issue, though, because I'll be custom-tailoring the map-bases that they sit on so as to fit with each piece, and each type of piece sits on its own map-object base anyway so there won't be much of a clash.
- I have to do extra work/editing to make sure the pieces look good on the green marble background, but this will do for now to show my progress.
- The knight took FOREVERRRRRRRRRRRRRR.
- I'm not sure about some of the light patterns on the rook/bishop base (on the central stalk) so I might redo it, I dunno...

I'm still learning the ins-and-outs of the program I'm using (Paint.net, gimp doesn't work for me, Photoshop is expensive...) as I go along.

Criticisms welcome and appreciated on the pieces.

[matrin]

Cool map imo, it looks like u took some of the maps ideas and put them together.

[krawz]

silent_skies,

Any chance you could make updates to the original post? I would like to track the progress of this map for future hosting on Bomb Dojo #1.

[silent skies]

I'm hoping to have a working version out by the end of the week, will update then. All the pieces are done, just working on finishing the bases and dealing w/ some finicky stuff.

I'm probably gonna recolor the pieces to be jade/dark green + gray colored, to somewhat match the squares of the board, and then darken the white squares significantly, or possibly replace them w/ black marble, to avoid glare while playing. That way, I can then also have the team colors somewhat match, being green + azure.

I'm trying to deal w/ an issue whereby the pieces I've made get blurred significantly when I rotate them to place them on different parts of the board, trying a few workarounds for that.


Also, if someone would like to suggest layouts for how maybe this map could work in a ball mode, I'm all ears. I personally don't have a good sense for ball maps.

[silent skies]

About 90% or so done now. May as well show what's here:



- Pieces and platforms done! Yay!
- I replaced the white marble with gray marble, so as to be easier on the eyes.
- The platforms now align to the marble pattern, or at least as much as they can.
- The pieces have been recolored to be greenish and gray, to match the new board pattern. When the actual map is done, the team colors will be azure and green to match.
- I'm working on adding shading to the pieces/bases, assuming a strong light source from the top left (which is generally what I was assuming when making the bases, but not the pieces). Though to be honest, I am having trouble with it, so I dunno how it will turn out. The shading I have 'completed' for now is on the left side of the picture above, but not the right side. I might go for weaker/smaller shadows, or I might just scrap the idea altogether, not yet sure.

Thoughts?

[Mandrad]

I think the art its much better now.
You followed my advice on lowering square contrast and i think the new background its great!
The main problem i see is the very low contrast between background and bases+pieces. Colidables must be obvious. You can probably solve this by lightning or darkening the whole background.
Shadows should be smoother too - maybe 20 to 25% of what u have now will be enough.
Long journey here - ur almost there!

[mlopes]

The graphics are now officially awesome, but mandrad is right. The pieces are not immediately noticeable, you should work on getting some contrast between the pieces and the background.

I love the fact that you didn't just repeated the squares on the background.

[silent skies]

I think the art its much better now.
You followed my advice on lowering square contrast and i think the new background its great!
The main problem i see is the very low contrast between background and bases+pieces. Colidables must be obvious. You can probably solve this by lightning or darkening the whole background.
Shadows should be smoother too - maybe 20 to 25% of what u have now will be enough.
Long journey here - ur almost there!

I'll try darkening the background. The reason I stopped using white pieces was that they didn't respond well to lightening effects, so if I had wanted white pieces I would probably have had to redo the coloring by hand.

When you say '20 to 25% of what u have no' do you mean the opacity? The size? Both?

Originally Posted by mlopes

The graphics are now officially awesome, but mandrad is right. The pieces are not immediately noticeable, you should work on getting some contrast between the pieces and the background.

I love the fact that you didn't just repeated the squares on the background.

Well, I had a giant chunk of 1024x1024 marble graphic that I sliced up into 300x300 squares for the background. When I ran out of those, I rotated them, and then again.

The gray squares are actually the same as the green ones, I just turned the saturation down to 0 to make them gray

So if you look long and hard enough (and maybe tilt your head sometimes) and maybe go colorblind you'll find some repeats, but it's not obvious upon first glance.

[Mandrad]

Originally Posted by silent skies

When you say '20 to 25% of what u have no' do you mean the opacity? The size? Both?

Opacity. - If shadows are that strong, when playing we will inconsciently perceive them as colidable, for they are now the most contrastant.

[silent skies]

Okay, a rework:



Darkening the background only made the contrast problem worse, since the pieces are relatively dark to begin with, so I lightened the background instead. I think it should be enough, but let me hear your opinion on it.

I added some quick shadows being cast by a somewhat weak light source in the middle and far above the board, which generally only affects the pieces. The opacity is much lower than the previous version, and you'll only see them if you're paying attention to them. The pieces towards the edges have more obvious shadows than the pieces in the center.

I'm still going to try to add the shadows from a light source at the top-left of the board, which will in some cases cross over the other shadows and make them slightly more complex.

[silent skies]

Okay, here is the map w/ the finished shading:



There are two light sources casting shadows, one from above the middle of the map, and another that is located past the top-left corner of the map. They cast different, and in some cases overlapping shadows.

I also made sure to have the pieces cast additional, small shadows onto the topsides of the platforms they are sitting on. It's a small thing and not terribly noticeable unless you look at it in detail.

Anyway, this is more or less the final version of the art. Unless there are any further concerns about contrast or whatnot, I'll go ahead and export a playable version, so people can play it and start giving me feedback.

Thoughts?


...haha, when I look at this version and then back at the first version I posted it makes me lol.

[elxir]

i love it

/thoughts

[ufo]

beeyouteefull

well done.

[wolf'j'max]

can't wait to play it :3

[XX1]

This map looks very nice. Good Job Skies on the art work.
Make this official?


-XX2

[silent skies]

Version 1.0 is out and ready for downloading! Updated first post, check it out for details.

Please try it out and give me feedback! I'd love to get this on the official and ladder circuits!

And let me know if you're willing to host this on your server!

[Blind Pilot]

Silent, I think you have done great work here. Your first (updated) post sets a good standard for publishing maps. It's clear that a lot of thought and hard work has gone into both graphics and gameplay.

I'm going to look for servers to test on, and also run skirmishes. Before playing it, my first impression is that the collide-able obstacles might not stick out from the background enough. I know you've been working on that and I'll definitely give some thoughts after flying around the map several times.

Well done.

[silent skies]

Silent, I think you have done great work here. Your first (updated) post sets a good standard for publishing maps. It's clear that a lot of thought and hard work has gone into both graphics and gameplay.

I'm going to look for servers to test on, and also run skirmishes. Before playing it, my first impression is that the collide-able obstacles might not stick out from the background enough. I know you've been working on that and I'll definitely give some thoughts after flying around the map several times.

Well done.

Thanks!

I don't think the issue of telling what's collidable and what's not is such a problem when the game is played and viewed at normal scale, but that might only be because I've been staring at these same objects for 3 weeks straight

I did lighten the background significantly, and if it's still a problem I can try lightening it some more and maybe darkening the objects as well. I want to avoid lightening the background too much, though, because personally it hurts my eyes a bit if backgrounds are too bright.

Though it's possible the shadows might be unconsciously perceived as collidable objects, as Mandrad pointed out, I'm hoping the shadows have the opposite effect and make the objects look like they're jutting out from the background and thus collidable. Though, that's a 3D concept applied to a 2D game, so we'll just have to see. It might be one of those cases where you just have to get used to the idea that they're shadows and not collidable - sort of like getting used to the new background asteroids in the tbd_asteroids rework.

[A Nipple]

looks great!!!
`
just one comment when u turn parallax off, will u have a plane colour rather than board such as black?? only often theres a few maps i find a little easier to play with parallax off an this might be one, but i wont know till i play!

[silent skies]

Parallax is where the background/foreground shifts around while you're flying, right? There isn't any of that to begin with on this map, everything stays put.

[Herodadotus]

*Looks at map*

Wow, that is amazing!

Can't wait to try it out.

[silent skies]

TBD_chess is currently being hosted at Bomb Dojo #1!

Thanks krawz!

[silent skies]

Based on user feedback, I've updated and re-released the map, which is now v1.1.

Change log and links are in the first post.

[silent skies]

Bomb Dojo #1 is hosting the updated map. ty krawz

[silent skies]

Okay, I got some good feedback on v1.1, but much more negative feedback. Some of the feedback along the lines of 'rofl this mapp is fial lozer' was less helpful but I got enough info that my work is cut out for me at this point.

The contrast issue is still a problem, but lightening and darkening things aren't enough it seems. I'm going to simplify the platforms and make them very close to solid black (but still give it a 3D shape or sorts, just very simplified with only very small differences in shading) and change the colors of the pieces to be red and blue, which will match the new team colors (the new team colors' contrast worked very well). This won't take that much effort, thankfully. I really enjoyed the visual look the map has now with the green/gray matching, but it's affecting gameplay too much for me to keep it, and that comes first. Since I'll make the platforms almost black, I'll need to change the base background from black to something else, probably a medium-toned gray. I'm not really a fan of gutting and altering the art like this, but whaddya gonna do eh?

I'm going to cut the pawn octagon in half by removing the lower half. A lot of people both explo and loopy alike were crashing all over that and complaining about it. Cutting away the bottom half will open up the base more and slightly change the lobbing patterns.

The rooks and base are too low, currently preventing a lot of players from passing under them and using it as a potential bombing route like I intended. I'm going to shift them upwards a bit.

There was an issue where a the bomb would sometimes get lost between the queens, and the only way to get it out would be to have miranda or rev thrust, which is unacceptable. I'll move them very close together and remove this gap, which should solve the problem without affecting layout much.

Turrets will get some attention, regarding size, positioning and numbers. More on that when I'm done. Previous testers for v1.0 said there were too few turrets, so I added one for each side and now v1.1 testers say there are too many, lol

Stay tuned. New version within the next couple days.

[silent skies]

How the above-mentioned color rework might look (reworked pawns + bases next to old knights and bases):



Thoughts? The chess pieces will be matching the plane colors at this point.

[Evan20000]

I like the idea. They contrast the background better, making them more noticable.

[Herodadotus]

Originally Posted by silent skies

How the above-mentioned color rework might look (reworked pawns + bases next to old knights and bases):



Thoughts? The chess pieces will be matching the plane colors at this point.

I actually like this better, not just in a playing sense, either. It still looks very good, and it fits art-wise.

[mlopes]

Originally Posted by silent skies

Ball players: If you have suggestions for how this might work as a ball map, sketch up a basic layout and post it here (include the pieces), and I'll do the work for it. Or you can just sketch up changes to the bare-bones artwork I posted above. Whatever works for you. I rarely play ball and have no clue about making a map for ball.

I would suggest you get rid of those triangles near the wall where the pawns are (or push them up and center to avoid having too much open space above the goal). Then you would push those two structures where the other pawns are, back a little (closer to the map borders), and place the goals in front of it. Then, those side bottom structures supported by the towers could go up and center a little and get some inclination (the side close to the border would be higher like this: \ / ).

That's just my two balls... whoops, sorry, two cents, on what would make a nice ball version of this map!

[Blind Pilot]

Played this on the dojo yesterday. The colors make all the difference. That's a good design choice.

Also, the contrast/"not being able to tell what I will run into" issue is gone. Good job on that.

I didn't see the top half of the map for most of the game. That's not necessarily a bad thing. I think planes have a pretty tough time getting up to the top with the bomb, but once they're there, they have a good chance of making it to the base (or at lease, I did).

Lots of turrets. Some people don't like that. I don't mind. EMPs exist for a reason and the much maligned dumb bombers can take them out easily from the right angle.

Someone suggested moving the triangle up the wall. If you did, I would raise the bases as well. The opening under the base is rather tight. Of course, then you're messing with people's ability to lob.