Change ladder password

[Sarah Palin]

I suggest "palinwinsgames" nobody will guess it

[Evan20000]

It's too close to "palinisautolose", which is my first guess. :P

Seriously though, a password change wouldn't hurt. More and more is it starting to feel like a pub in there.

[CCN]

Originally Posted by Evan20000

It's too close to "palinisautolose", which is my first guess. :P

Seriously though, a password change wouldn't hurt. More and more is it starting to feel like a pub in there.

I checked up his ladder rank. Couldn't find the game you carried him. As he's lost every game.

Its the rules that are the problem not the password. You get pubbies in, who need to drop 75 games to get to their real rank, which screws everyone else in the process. But according to ladder rules, thats totally fine. The only recourse is the game breaks up. With all the free time on my hands i've seen games break up over one noob over and over and over. This happens even when I don't mega rage out (Yes i ott, sorry one ruiner too many).


Password keeps pubbies out for what a week before they find the new one.

[Sarah Palin]

CCN does have a point that ladder newbies (whether noobs or not) have to play for a while before they are correctly valued.

It could be fixed by making it so the first ten or twenty games someone plays "count as double" for their own personal ladder score, e.g. +50/-50 instead of +25/-25 (only for them not their entire team).

This fix would create a minute imbalance in ladder as it would be creating or destroying fictional points that don't "exist." But the benefit would be that new players reach their level faster, which makes the game more fun for all.

[Evan20000]

Originally Posted by CCN

I checked up his ladder rank. Couldn't find the game you carried him.

Just looked. You're right, where'd it go? O_O

[elxir]

I think the previously floated idea of having a beginners ladder and an elite ladder is an interesting notion that should be considered.

I don't know if it's possible, but I figure there are two ways to work this.

1) All players in the top ~150 spots only receive adjustments when all other players have at least minimum X games played in ladder, or minimum X rank.

or

2) Physically separate the servers into elite/beginner using similar methods of segregation.

[nobodyhome]

A password change will only cause a bit of confusion and a few day's of low-activity ladder servers before noobs start filtering in there again. I can assure you that any noob that gets into ladder didn't find the password a long time ago, but rather not to soon before actually getting into ladder--thus they would find the new password anyways.

A segregated ladder wouldn't quite work because generally at any given time there is less than two games' worth of people playing ladder.

The problem with noobs being incorrectly rated initially is well-recognized and will be fixed along with the new features in the next season of the ladder (which will come when it's ready =[ ).

[innerlyte]

While skimming this thread, I misread elixir's post and got an idea. What if the password were changed and the top 150 (or whatever) players didn't have to enter the password. I'm not sure how this would work, but you could either do it client side (top 150 players have something like an XML file saved to their comp with the PW in it) or server side (server checks player list and doesn't ask for PW from these players). Maybe this would be worth looking into??

[nobodyhome]

I don't think there is any way to do this currently. The password is set in the config and any custom code has no control over whether to "ask" for a password from a particular player. From the log's point of view, it doesn't even know whether the server is passworded or not, it just sees joins and leaves.

If you want this to happen you'd have to post in the suggestions forum for karl and lam to implement, which to me sounds like insta-put-on-bottom-of-to-do-list material.

[nostrich]

As one of the noobs you're talking about, I have something to add here.

I disagree that new players need to be segregated. Yes, their rank isn't accurate for a while, but that doesn't discount their actual skill level. It's probably safe to assume anyone you don't know is comparatively unskilled for now, since there's such a small player-base, but you are not the only players on Altitude. There's no telling how many hours a player has logged before meeting a vet on a ladder server; there's also no way for a newbie to get the required skills without enough play around vets. As you all know, public servers are largely failfests at the moment, the only place to discover and learn good strategies is around people that know them; that's you guys. I would say a better approach would to just be more tolerant of newer players: if you're so hostile to newer players -- insulting them and segregating them to beginner servers -- they're never going to become good enough to compete, or even want to compete, and increase the number of skilled players, therefore increasing competition.

I understand that the way the auto-balance works means newer players without an established rank can be a detriment to a team, but who cares? They won't learn without mentors that don't insult them. Plus it's really not the end of the world if you lose a few games in the pursuit of having more talented players. Particularly when the ladder is in its "off-season."

Here's another idea: why don't you just make one of the ladder servers a generalised-league for everyday play, where nothing but pride is at stake, and then have another ladder server where the results matter and contribute to an end season prize or whatever. Then you have somewhere for vets to compete and show off, and somewhere for the newbies to join in too and get some practice without fear of affecting people's ranks negatively or being insulted or kicked.

As a sidenote: I had a somewhat negative experience earlier where Elixir refused to play on the same team as me because the team I was on had lost the previous two games. I have no idea what kind of logic lead to the decision that I was the sole cause of that (I actually lead my team in kills and scored a goal in one of those games), but until I'm given the real reason, I'm assuming that's also why I was kicked (no reason other than "gtfo" was given at the time, despite asking). That kind of thing stops people wanting to play. I'm a big boy, and I don't give a **** if Elixir wants to talk **** about me, and I'm under no illusions about my ball skill, but it's really not conducive to growing a community of skilled ball players if they just get insulted for not being good enough. Vets should be helping people improve. I'm not at all butthurt, just making a point.

My 2 cents. Do with them what you will.

[Pieface]

This is why I'd like ladder autobalance in the next season to take into account the first season's rating. No reason for teams to be imbalanced for a while because worse players with ~1000 ratings are treated as average players with ~1500 ratings. The same thing can be said for those who have settled above 2000 points.

[Sunaku]

@nostrich : This is a very senseful and reasonable post, which is quite suspicious on these forums. What is your real agenda here, huh ?
I think you are absolutely right about the fact that some players should show more respect, not only to neophytes but to everyone in general. But I'll expand on that elsewhere. I was there during your kick and there was no valid reason for it. Don't hesitate to report it.

That said, I don't think the ladder is the place where people should learn each mode. Others will correct me if I'm wrong but I think the goal is to have a dedicated place where experienced players can gather to have good games in a competitive mindset. Ratings being only a candy for those who need one. Even if you're right about the advantage of new players playing with "veterans", I really don't think it's the place for that. There are a few pub servers where you can already play with them before entering the raging hell.

[CCN]

Nostrich believe it or not but if every new person who came into ladder played and acted like you I would have 0 problems.

The problem is people who obviously can not read, and who haven't even learned the game. Competitive play with someone who can't even be useful in Bouncy 2 is a fail.

Someone like you, who is actually transitioning, and who went through the pubs first is okay in my book.

[ryebone]

nostrich,

While I agree that it's important to have a place for "noobs" and vets to play together without animosity between the groups, I agree with Sunaku in that the goal of ladder is not to provide such an environment. Ladder is meant as a place for high-level competitive games, not a place to practice time anchor or sniplane or whatnot. There's a few servers that veterans tend to congregate in when not in ladder. Some of the ones that come to mind are New England DM, Ball Dojo (sometimes), Official #3, and any of the Proleague and {arr} servers. Play there for a bit to get the hang of how competitive games are conducted, get to know the vets there , and your ladder experience will be much more positive.

Keep in mind that it only takes one loudmouth whiner to ruin everything. Don't judge the entire veteran community to be arrogant pricks; only a few of us fit that description.

[Kuja900]

Eh while I am generally the first one to call out a "newb" who is hurting my rating even I think that changing the ladder password would be if anything counterproductive.

[Evan20000]

Originally Posted by nostrich

Long post cut for size.

I think what peevs most vets are the people who come in and think they can play whatever plane they want (Reverse dumb bomber, etc...). Also, the people who aren't willing to learn (Don't take tips, etc...) from the better players likely also causes bile from the vets. Yesterday, there was even a kid complaining that ladder wasn't bouncy. Seriously.

[nostrich]

Originally Posted by ryebone

Keep in mind that it only takes one loudmouth whiner to ruin everything. Don't judge the entire veteran community to be arrogant pricks; only a few of us fit that description.

I won't derail the topic anymore, other than to say that I'm absolutely not doing that. I've played many, many games with a lot of the vets in public servers and have very little negative to say. I don't want anybody to think I've judged the entire community based on one experience.

And I agree that the ladder server shouldn't be used for learning how to play. That's half the reason I suggested a second ladder server with lower stakes; but as people have already mentioned, there are already servers that serve that purpose well enough.

By the way, as far as the ladder server password goes: this might be a little nuclear, but why not hide the password in a topic you need to be registered to access? Currently, anyone can see it, including Google. Even upping the barrier to entry as little as requiring a forum account would probably be surprisingly effective at keeping all but the most determined noobs out.

[elxir]

I declined to play because teams featuring nostrich were 3-24 (goals for/against) in four straight games.

I told him ladder wasn't the place to learn to play, and he told me to [pleasure] myself. Multiple other people said the same thing as me, I guess my words just stuck.

Sorry.

[elxir]

Originally Posted by Evan20000

I think what peevs most vets are the people who come in and think they can play whatever plane they want (Reverse dumb bomber, etc...). Also, the people who aren't willing to learn (Don't take tips, etc...) from the better players likely also causes bile from the vets. Yesterday, there was even a kid complaining that ladder wasn't bouncy. Seriously.

lightningzack played a reverse thrust time anchor today.

also, a ball flew by him into the goal, and he said "sorry i was watching tv."

and they wonder why i rage

[elxir]

Also I might recommend that all new players to ladder use a bomber.

It is the easiest way to get kills, which when you are still learning, are the greatest contribution you can make to a team.

If you struggle with hard walls, use a suppressor/rubber hull/turbo setup.

There was a new player earlier today using a bomber and I noticed he missed a few easy shots, but I didn't say anything negative to him because a) he said "my bad" or something of the sort, b) played solid defense, and c) was doing a pretty respectable job in a very tough game.

[nostrich]

Originally Posted by elxir

I told him ladder wasn't the place to learn to play, and he told me to [pleasure] myself. Multiple other people said the same thing as me, I guess my words just stuck.

Sorry.

That's either a lie or you're remembering it wrong, because I said nothing of the sort. You told me I need to pay attention, and I said "thanks, coach." Either way, I don't care; I'm not interested in feuding with people, or randomly insulting people, I'm just here to play ball. I'm happy to take advice from anyone that's not a dick about it.

[CCN]

Originally Posted by nostrich

That's either a lie or you're remembering it wrong, because I said nothing of the sort. You told me I need to pay attention, and I said "thanks, coach." Either way, I don't care; I'm not interested in feuding with people, or randomly insulting people, I'm just here to play ball. I'm happy to take advice from anyone that's not a dick about it.

happened like this.


Elixir is thinking about Squadron, who came back after being told to gtfo, told everyone he didn't care what we think, could go f-ourselves, and process to lose every game he played befroe ladder broke up.

[hurripilot]

Personally I like it when people tell me to go **** myself. It's a handy reminder in a time when lives are so busy, it's hard to remember to take care of numero uno.