Clan ladder

[A Nipple]

is there anyway a server/code could be made similar to the current ladder where clans can scrim and battle it out to attain ladder positions! maybe clans/players can be identified via ID's and updated according to roster pages and players?!

I am aware it sounds complicated but the idea sounds incredible that clans could go to a server play against each other and results come up on a website! furthermore it would encourage incentive for clans to play on a regular basis and new players to form clans etc!

I know the suggestion sounds a bit patchy but could someone who might understand coding etc add some substance to the idea??

maybe the head of each clan could have access to something on the clan ladder website where they can input their players names, vapour ID or whatever details are needed and then when they play in the ladder they will be noted as that clan! If people try to play with people not logged to the same teams it would reject that combination of players!

I hope there is some amazing coding god out there who would has the patience and love for alty to do this!

[Greekjr14]

This does sound like a good idea. And maybe they could actually choose whether the match would be official or just a random on-the-spot scrim kinda thing.

[gemigemi]

I would be very interested in seeing this team based version of ladder. Basically I'd suggest the following:

- Separate servers from the current ladder servers.
- Teams are managed my team leaders on the website, inputting the player ID's.
- Two teams can get on one of the team ladder servers and play in a similar way as the current ladder works, but instead of randomizing players the players set the teams themselves.
- A team doesn't necessarily have to have all players added to the website as ID's, but players from different teams should not be present in a team. The system treats the game as if a certain clan was playing as long as at least one member in the game is listed by the team manager on the website. Basically this means that team managers add their "captains" or "officers" to the website and one of those captains/officers needs to be present for the game to count. This prevents regular members from ruining the clan rating and makes sure that players changing clans don't cause problems when they aren't removed from the old team by the admins.

[ryebone]

While I am personally impartial to this idea, I think if this were ever implemented, it would spell the end to leagues as we currently know them. Not saying that would be a bad thing...

[Kuja900]

Eh I dont like this idea. This would not tell you who the best tbd clan is, it would tell you which one plays the most and/or played KLF the most times for free wins. Leagues tell you which clan is the best of the best by having to systematically beat down every challenger until you reach the top of the mountain. A league means something, a "clan ladder" would not.

[Stormich]

It would be a lot easier to calculate since you can use unmodified Elo rating. I'd actually like if there was a way we could keep track of all the leagues and teams would get rated according. Something similar to what FIFA does for football. They have teams rated by how they have been playing so you can see how good you are but it still means nothing if you don't have a trophy.

[gemigemi]

Originally Posted by Kuja900

This would not tell you who the best tbd clan is, it would tell you which one plays the most and/or played KLF the most times for free wins. Leagues tell you which clan is the best of the best by having to systematically beat down every challenger until you reach the top of the mountain. A league means something, a "clan ladder" would not.

I personally wouldn't see this as a replacement for tournaments/leagues for these exact reasons, but I see it as something new for clans to work on. Currently clans don't have much to compete on and this would allow them to have meaningful competitions whenever they want to.

The ranking system for teams doesn't also have to be the same as it is for solo players in the current ladder. It could be calculated in many different ways, one of which is to compare the win% of each team towards each of the other teams and base their rank on those stats and not a pure number of wins. This would mean that a lot of games against an easy opponent wont rise the rank of a team if they already have a 100% win% over that team.

[Stormich]

The Elo rating system is perfect for 1v1 ranking, which is team vs team. Chess uses Elo, football uses Elo, probably some other games too, I think WOW pvp also has some form of Elo or something.

[classicallad]

Originally Posted by Kuja900

Eh I dont like this idea. This would not tell you who the best tbd clan is, it would tell you which one plays the most and/or played KLF the most times for free wins. Leagues tell you which clan is the best of the best by having to systematically beat down every challenger until you reach the top of the mountain. A league means something, a "clan ladder" would not.

hahahahahhaaha, you cheeky bitch watch yow mouth

[A Nipple]

Originally Posted by Kuja900

Eh I dont like this idea. This would not tell you who the best tbd clan is, it would tell you which one plays the most and/or played KLF the most times for free wins. Leagues tell you which clan is the best of the best by having to systematically beat down every challenger until you reach the top of the mountain. A league means something, a "clan ladder" would not.

I thought the same last night kuja! but the amount of points u get depends on the the clans rating u play against and if u play a clan 10x and win u wouldnt just be the top of the ladder somehow it would avoid this situation!

it would encourage clans to play more and more and for newer people to the game to get more involved and hopefully pick up the skills required for ladder faster!

[SkyGirl]

Great Idea Nip!! I love it.

[Wok3N^]

To override the issue of clan stomping klf for easy points, maybe there could be a limit two clans can play each other every week.

[A Nipple]

Originally Posted by Wok3N^

To override the issue of clan stomping klf for easy points, maybe there could be a limit two clans can play each other every week.

nahh that would be lame! it would be better if there was a way of calculating away round it! so if u win repeatedly vs lower clans u just dont get many points!

I also think if clan ladder was made it should be more publicised through the altitude website and ingame on the menu section as most people probably wouldnt be aware there is a forum for alty otherwise! the incentive for noobs to get good an play more would be more! it would also mean clans and community would expand in order to organise matches etc! `

[trendy11one]

I like that idea, but i think, without ingame clan system this doesnt work. Clan ladder is great competitive challenge, for example Guild Wars guild ladder.

http://www.guildwars.com/competitive/ladder/

Beside ladder there are tournaments which proceed every month. We can pick this system. Here's that works. Guilds/clans play normal ladder games and achieve points, like old ladder. Also every team may start tournament ladder game. Result of it is qualification points. Every month teams, say 16, with bigest amount of QP can try to win mouth tournament. Winner of MT achieve monthlasting skin, smth abt gold stars or else dunno.

But again, we need clan system, where clan leader register his clan and clan tag and add members through ingame menu, like adding friends. After that clan member achieve tag to his nickname, which colored different to stop fakeing, smth like that
[clan]trendy11one to real clan member and [clan]trendy11one for everyone, who just add [clan] to his nickname.

[A Nipple]

there was talk about ingame support for clans along time but havnt heard much as to karl an lams current position on it =/ apparently its hard to do!

but i think the entire community would enjoy and benefit from such a system!

[wolf'j'max]

Cant you just go to ladder make your teams, vote the starttournament, vote the custom command? Because of the starttournament the players can't change. The map will just change. (i am not sure if this works, we just have to try it?)

[A Nipple]

thats kinda what i had in mind, but teams would needed to be logged somehow e.g. captain of teams logs them in the ladder website using ID etc! the way your saying would allow for any 5 people to go in!

[Stormich]

It should be possible with a modified ladder code, would still be some work and I assume no one is willing to put in the work needed.

[A Nipple]

actually harmonica said he can code and do sites an stuff and is willing to help! plus eth mentioned along the lines of him an nobo had this idea and were getting round to doing it or something! though dont take my word on that they'll need to comment on that!

[Harmonica]

I would be willing to help out, depending on what needs to be done and when/how it gets built. It sounds like there are still several design/definition questions remaining.

I really like the idea of a clan-based ladder: I think such a system would address all of the issues I have with the current ladder: we wouldn't incur the constant "we need more people in ladder" spam, drama would be constrained to the individual clans themselves (rather than spilling out onto the rest of the community), and it would reward team cohesion and organization/chemistry rather than rewarding the individual playstyles best suited to random teammates and random opponents. I think that encouraging clans to play together more frequently would be a very positive thing for the community.

[nobodyhome]

Eth and I have already thought of such a system long ago, all it needs is implementation. We were originally putting this on low priority because of low demand (there weren't as many clans back then as there are now). If Harmonica or anyone else wants to do this they are free to PM me or talk to me in game for more details (because I am not going to do this).

The system would work as follows:

1. You can go into any of the clan ladder servers and register your clan through typing messages. Simply type !makeclan "Faggy Little Bears" to make a clan called faggy little bears, and it will make if the name isn't already taken.

2. You are then the captain of said team. You can then add members by typing commands with their vaporID, say something like !addMember (vaporId here). The member then can choose to accept or reject the invitation.

3. No person can be in more than one clan per game mode at a time. You can leave clans by typing in something like !leave.

4. Once you have a bunch of clans going, they can start playing each other. Simply put your members on one side and some other clan's on one side and starttournament. If all the members are recognized to be in the proper clan (no tags necessary), the game will start and say that this is an official fLb vs ACE match or something.

5. Once the game is over then the ladder will give you/retract points based on the ELO system.

[A Nipple]

merci for giving le input nobobo! so basically its open idea for sale, pretty much a matter of finding some committed altitude players who can code etc!

Harmonica you think you could do such a thing on your own or would it the task need a 2/3 people?

[Boko]

Registration ingame would be a good idea since you won't have people on the website ninjaing vaporid's. Btw I could do it, but I don't know if Devedse is interested in helping me out because I'm too lazy to do it alone.

[innerlyte]

This sounds like an interesting idea. Depending on the amount of detail that gets put into this, clans could determine their most effective set-ups and player combinations based on winning percentages.

[idk]

I heard of this idea in-game, a ladder similair to the current one but with clans instead of individual players.

I have been coding on a bot called UkmBot to keeping the control of the {arr} servers, it won't be too hard to modify the code. Here is some features that the bot will have:

The bot is using the altitude server's IO services to read, write or process 
to or from a local database or the server.

Progress

* Server reading		- Read and process server messages
* Server writing		- Process and write server messages
* Multi-server handling	- Handle multiple servers

* Player database		- Store all player's data
* Log database		- Store all bot's data

* Announce system		- Passive broadcasting
* Control system		- Full control of server and bot via in-game commands
* Personnel system		- Access to gain difference admin rights
* Quest system		- Challenges during a regular game
* Ranking system		- Highscore calculated by the player database
* Teambalance system	- Advanced balancing depending on rank index, plane comparsion and player's field position
* Slot system			- Create free slots for your important players, even if server is "full"
* Violation system		- Auto-detectable violation (Bad lang, bad name, name fake, etc)

One big problem is that I have no hosting service to use, so if this project is going to be developed, it needs a server for alot testing. This proposal is worth to dig deeper in to and see if its possible, which I believe at this moment. I'll come back to you.

//{arr} Iderik

[TRUEPAiN]

If you guys get something going, I'll help contribute for a server.

[shrode]

One concern I have is that people with no friends (or just no clan) won't be able to play as much normal ladder because clan ladder will take all the people.

[idk]

Originally Posted by shrode

One concern I have is that people with no friends (or just no clan) won't be able to play as much normal ladder because clan ladder will take all the people.

Then will everyone create clans, woho!

[A Nipple]

Originally Posted by shrode

One concern I have is that people with no friends (or just no clan) won't be able to play as much normal ladder because clan ladder will take all the people.

It shouldn't effect normal ladders too much because for clan ladder to work 5 of each clan would have to organise a time to play. Its not too often 2 clans conveniently have 5 online to play so normal ladders should stay the same at least after a week or two of the initial excitement of the clan ladders are over.

Also about what u said nobo where u can type into commands and make a clan! I don't know how the exact detail of the idea but it sounds like people could abuse it?! but it could be avoided by making it that each person could be registered to one clan in that server e.g. one tbd clan (tbd server). one ball clan (ball server). Also if they wish to leave a clan the person who added them to their clan via the commands would have to be the one to do it themselves, meaning people cant just make a quick makeshift clan to play. well at least not people already registered to a clan.

Though there is nothing to say noobs could not just come in and make a clan via the commands =/ maybe the head of each clan should apply to the admins to have acess to captains controls =s not to sure on this part maybe someone else has a better idea!

p.s.
if u want to join a clan my advice is play more ladder get used to teamwork etc and when u get on with some people ingame who have a clan see if they'll take u onboard, if u see me ingame and u want to know any tips for tbd and making ur game better just mention it and i'll try to help.

[trendy11one]

At the one hand, ingame command system is better and easier to make a clan, but in other hand i think clan should be registered in ladder site. In fact, we have abt 15 tbd clans.11 according to ffl. So for the first time clan leader may register and add clan members trough site.

Also, dseparate servers dont needed, coz every day i dont see more than one server full. And Only 15 or 16 players wants to play,others afk or smth. If clans want to play, they must form teams and type smth like startClangame/ Then server check teams - 1)every team has 5 players 2) all 5 players are members of one clan

[idk]

I've made a good configuration and database structure, so the plans for this project is almost done and perfect.

If you guys want me to continue this project, I really need a server to start testing this bot. A user with read, write and execute access to a directory of your choice, also read and write to ".../Altitude/servers/" would be perfect. Windows would be great, else you need mono installed since the bot is using .Net library.

Untill then the project is put on hold.

[A Nipple]

awesome!!! I posted in the ladder forum in hope we can find us a couple of servers!

wuld this code work for both a tbd clan ladder and a ball clan ladder?

nip =D

[idk]

Originally Posted by A Nipple

awesome!!! I posted in the ladder forum in hope we can find us a couple of servers!

wuld this code work for both a tbd clan ladder and a ball clan ladder?

nip =D

Yep, any mode. This project will get much faster done if the server is running Windows, I know, I'm no fan of it either but I have almost no experience with Mono. Plus I aint got much time to finish it, in august I'm moving to another country, which will take weeks for me to settle down.

So we got like 10 days to go, then someone else have to take over the coding part.

Since I decided to make this project open sourced, anyone can edit.

[Void]

Originally Posted by idk

Yep, any mode. This project will get much faster done if the server is running Windows, I know, I'm no fan of it either but I have almost no experience with Mono. Plus I aint got much time to finish it, in august I'm moving to another country, which will take weeks for me to settle down.

So we got like 10 days to go, then someone else have to take over the coding part.

Since I decided to make this project open sourced, anyone can edit.

You are a genious my dear friend. I will certainly pay you a visit up north when the time is right.

[A Nipple]

Originally Posted by idk

I've made a good configuration and database structure, so the plans for this project is almost done and perfect.

If you guys want me to continue this project, I really need a server to start testing this bot. A user with read, write and execute access to a directory of your choice, also read and write to ".../Altitude/servers/" would be perfect. Windows would be great, else you need mono installed since the bot is using .Net library.

Untill then the project is put on hold.

so woken said would be willing to provide a couple of servers! hopefully u know him and have him as a friend ingame! speak with him see what u can do =D otherwise I'll check his name and pm on here?!

[alexjalen]

no just no

[Greekjr14]

Originally Posted by alexjalen

no just no

and would you like to give a reason why?

[idk]

As I said before, my time is short, so I aint got time to chase people around for a hosting service. This project is open sourced which means everyone is a developer, I'm just here to help you guys with the coding part.

Please, contact me here with a private message or in altitude, my in-game name is {arr}Iderik. Lets not loose another day, every day is very important!

@Void
Båååtveckaaan!

[classicallad]

i love sweden!!!!

[idk]

Since I got a whole day of coding time and no server, I decided to code a program to simulate a server's behaviur which will help me to test most of the base/engine for a few important purposes; optimizing, stability and object orientated.

Lol, I just noticed it's friday today, so we'll see about that whole day