Altitude Game: Forums  

Go Back   Altitude Game: Forums > Altitude Discussion > League Organization
FAQ Community Calendar

League Organization Only pertinent league information in here.

View Poll Results: Format for SL4
Standard APL format: regular season and playoffs. 26 55.32%
SL3 format: Different events and playoffs. 7 14.89%
World Cup format: 4 groups top 2 advance to playoffs. 12 25.53%
Other format. 2 4.26%
Voters: 47. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-23-2011, 10:51 AM
andy andy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Italy
Posts: 1,967
Default Sky League 4 format

We are thinking about starting sky league in 3 weeks so it can be over before summer. Before that i would like to discuss the format with everyone to avoid having to read rage posts during the season.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-24-2011, 02:51 PM
beefheart beefheart is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Holland
Posts: 567
Default

Actually i am not really a fan of play offs. I mean i come from europe where we dont really have that kind of system.

What i would like to have is only a regular season, where every team plays the other teams twice (home and away), 3 games per match, in which the teams get 1 point for every game they win. At the end of the season, the team with the most points win.

This way it takes like a couple of months to complete the season. But i say why not.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-24-2011, 03:02 PM
sunshineduck sunshineduck is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: They were naked, I saw many pussy, I walked away. Call me gay but just saying.
Posts: 4,057
Default

SL3 format was amazingly fun. getting to play top quality matches every scheduled week was great.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-24-2011, 04:05 PM
gustav27 gustav27 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Fat Santa
Posts: 237
Default

I agree with Beef. A regular season where you play everyone once or twice would be nice and where you have more than one match a week more like 2 or even 3.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-24-2011, 04:34 PM
sunshineduck sunshineduck is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: They were naked, I saw many pussy, I walked away. Call me gay but just saying.
Posts: 4,057
Default

am i the only one that actually remembers how sl3 was run?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-24-2011, 05:20 PM
beefheart beefheart is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Holland
Posts: 567
Default

sl3 was like every week another mini tourney, with some new set up, right?

The advantage of having a season in which you play everyone twice, is that the end of season rankings provide a far more accurate oversight of how good each clan is compared to others. While in knock out tourney's, whether you reach finals largely depend on the clans that are in your poule.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-24-2011, 05:28 PM
Tekn0 Tekn0 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,548
Default

Can someone explain the concept of "playoffs" in Altitude terms? I've not played in SL before.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-24-2011, 05:31 PM
sunshineduck sunshineduck is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: They were naked, I saw many pussy, I walked away. Call me gay but just saying.
Posts: 4,057
Default

@beef: yes, that was the concept. a playoff at the end of the regular season (which you are against because you are from europe) solves that problem, i was not proposing said mini tourney format in a no-playoff league.

@tekno: playoffs in altitude work just like playoffs everywhere else. if you are really confused, see the APL5 playoffs bracket thread.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-24-2011, 05:40 PM
beefheart beefheart is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Holland
Posts: 567
Default

No regular season already fixes that problem. Playoffs only lengthen the process.

edit: imo
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-24-2011, 05:45 PM
sunshineduck sunshineduck is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: They were naked, I saw many pussy, I walked away. Call me gay but just saying.
Posts: 4,057
Default

yeah, but in a regular season format you aren't guaranteed quality games every week. there are some weeks that honestly aren't even worth showing up for. with a tourney format, you get fun competitive games week in and week out.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-24-2011, 06:15 PM
andy andy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Italy
Posts: 1,967
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunshineduck View Post
yeah, but in a regular season format you aren't guaranteed quality games every week. there are some weeks that honestly aren't even worth showing up for. with a tourney format, you get fun competitive games week in and week out.
This is basically why i like the SL3 system. imo regular season is just lame while playoffs are the real fun part, but if you can get playoffs every week wouldnt that be fun?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-24-2011, 07:48 PM
JWhatever JWhatever is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Finland, gmt +2
Posts: 560
Default

I would prefer a round robin (everyone against everyon) with an ascension type of a tournament at the end of the pre-season (I'm not 100% about whether that is a well recognized tournament system or whether it's called that.)

Essentially the point system would be the same as in Dougies current WABL (points for match wins, points for game wins, extra points for 6-0 wins and some pity points for 5-6 losses). At the end of the pre-season, the team with the most points would get the highest seed in the ascension table whereas the worst team would be at the bottom.

If 2 would end up with the same amount of points, they would play a bo3 against each other. (or the seed would be defined by goal difference / win difference etc.).

The image below is for 7 teams (2 of the worst teams would be placed to the F slot / Game 1). The winner of the first game would advance to the next one, loser would drop out and end up 7th.



Pros and cons.

Pros:
-every team would get the chance to play against every other team. In the previous SL, our team had to play in the first 4 events against arr, ball, arr and twisted on the first round. Those teams happened to be in the top 4 at the end of playoffs. We got practicly zero "easy" games (ala games against teams that were worse in rank then us). Sorry for still bitching about it, but as I said, that was not fair.

-teams that have played well would get rewarded accordingly.

-teams that might have had a couple of bad games would still have an opportunity to rise during the ascension.

-teams could organize the dates and times for their games.

Cons:
-a lot more games for the organizers to track.

-lack of variety compared to the previous SL. (personally I don't see this as a problem)


--------------


Nothing wrong with the system used in SL3 other than the seeds were bent. Also the "home and away" rules would be grand.

-J
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-25-2011, 12:24 PM
andy andy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Italy
Posts: 1,967
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JWhatever View Post
Pros and cons.

Pros:
-every team would get the chance to play against every other team.

-teams that have played well would get rewarded accordingly.

-teams that might have had a couple of bad games would still have an opportunity to rise during the ascension.

-teams could organize the dates and times for their games.

Cons:
-a lot more games for the organizers to track.

-lack of variety compared to the previous SL. (personally I don't see this as a problem)


--------------


Nothing wrong with the system used in SL3 other than the seeds were bent. Also the "home and away" rules would be grand.

-J

Major flaws i see are:
- As my personal experience goes allowing teams to schedule matches never works.
- too many games.

What i would do for this season:
- Different events like SL3
- Seeding as previous week (for first week SL3 seeding)
- Playoffs for best 8 teams.

What the difference would be:
- Seedings are determined on a week to week base
- Points in each event will be stated from week 1
- Teams will know how many weeks are still to be played and how many points are still to be assigned
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-25-2011, 08:03 PM
rojo rojo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 371
Default

I hope you guys decide to revert to APL/Sl2 style. I like how WABL is incorporating points and groups, but that doesn't mean all leagues have to be the same.

My big complaints from SL3 is that you had to set aside at least 1 hour but up to 3 hours for each tournament, you did not know who you were playing or what time you were playing until 2 days previously, and the tournament styles were ... how to say ... kitschy? Also, the random seedings was at times ridiculous.

Other complaints I recall from SL3 were the lag and the fact that currently there are a larger number of Euro-based teams than NA-based teams atm.

In the end, I think solidifying rules/schedule/servers earlier would decrease the amount of frustration people have later. People are likely going to bitch no matter what, but if you spell it out in the beginning then they don't have [as much] room to complain.

Of course all I say is likely moot.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-25-2011, 08:48 PM
elxir elxir is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: All-American
Posts: 2,687
Default

not having playoffs would just like...why bother
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-26-2011, 11:21 AM
andy andy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Italy
Posts: 1,967
Default

The real problem with having a full regular season is that it would take more than 12 rounds (at the moment there are 14 active ball clans). I would like to run something like SL3 with 4/5 weeks of events and 1/2 weeks of playoffs.

- We would state the rules and the format of each event before starting week 1.
- Times would be posted at least 4 days before the games.
- Map pools will have a veto system.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-26-2011, 11:55 AM
trendy11one trendy11one is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Moscow
Posts: 672
Default

Then this is my suggestion.
Split 12 teams to 4 groups. This can be done from by random or through 1 week bo3 tourney.
Next week Everyone play with everyone in separate groups. (2 matches each team)
3rd week - same in other servers. (2 matches each team)
After that Week play tie breakers and break for rest of teams.
Then 4 teams goes to premier group, 4 teams to another(1st division) and rest to another(2nd division)
2 weeks play each other 2 times (3 matches each team). This should be high quality matches since each group contain closest opponents.
Result will show up, who is winner of SL.
After that can be Super CUp of winners of each group. This will be double elim of 4 teams.2 teams from 1st gruop, 1 team from 2nd and 3d.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-26-2011, 12:03 PM
rojo rojo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 371
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy View Post
The real problem with having a full regular season is that it would take more than 12 rounds (at the moment there are 14 active ball clans). I would like to run something like SL3 with 4/5 weeks of events and 1/2 weeks of playoffs.

- We would state the rules and the format of each event before starting week 1.
- Times would be posted at least 4 days before the games.
- Map pools will have a veto system.
So you want this to be done in less than 8 weeks.

Use the WABL outcome as seedings for 2 groups. Have both groups play each other with 1 or 2 random crossover game. 7 teams/group, 2 games/week, ... would last 4 weeks total. Use that outcome to seed a tournament, lasts 1-2 weeks.

If you want to do the tournaments, well, nobody can stop you, but I hope you fix some of the complaints from the previous SL.

Small issue: 4 days in advance is still not enough time for some people and the fact that this it is not the summer its going to be harder. We currently have multiple weeks notice in WABL, why cannot we have the same for SL?

oh ya, and this:
The Bo1's were idiotic. Again, setting aside 3hours for the possiblity of playing 10 minutes... doesn't make sense.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-26-2011, 12:23 PM
andy andy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Italy
Posts: 1,967
Default

I just wanna make sure this is over before people leave for holidays.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 05-27-2011, 02:33 AM
Spartan Spartan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: OC CA! (Woo Pig Sooie is where the heart is)
Posts: 495
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy View Post
I would like to run something like SL3 with 4/5 weeks of events and 1/2 weeks of playoffs.
Then I'd say something along the lines of the World Cup format would work
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 05-27-2011, 03:36 AM
elxir elxir is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: All-American
Posts: 2,687
Default

the bo1's were awesome, imo

especially the timed one
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 05-27-2011, 04:11 AM
rojo rojo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 371
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elxir View Post
the bo1's were awesome, imo

especially the timed one
And IMO they weren't fun, but we're all entitled to our opinions.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 05-27-2011, 12:12 PM
andy andy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Italy
Posts: 1,967
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan View Post
Then I'd say something along the lines of the World Cup format would work
So no double elimination in playoffs?
I really think this game needs double elim.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 05-27-2011, 06:52 PM
Spartan Spartan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: OC CA! (Woo Pig Sooie is where the heart is)
Posts: 495
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy View Post
So no double elimination in playoffs?
I really think this game needs double elim.
Depends on what the playoffs are bo. If they're bo7 then double elim is definitely not necessary. But if you want the first rounds of the playoffs to be bo3/5, then you could set up a double elim for the playoffs, and still maintain the group format so that the regular season isn't so long
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 05-27-2011, 09:54 PM
rojo rojo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 371
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan View Post
Depends on what the playoffs are bo. If they're bo7 then double elim is definitely not necessary. But if you want the first rounds of the playoffs to be bo3/5, then you could set up a double elim for the playoffs, and still maintain the group format so that the regular season isn't so long
Has there ever been a league that's gone to double Bo7 elim?
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 05-28-2011, 12:28 AM
elxir elxir is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: All-American
Posts: 2,687
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rojo View Post
Has there ever been a league that's gone to double Bo7 elim?
i think the fLb/IL finals are IL has to win two bo7s

but i could be wrong per usual
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 05-28-2011, 04:38 AM
leggomyeggo leggomyeggo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l76jo1xRKb1qbe82eo1_500.jpg
Posts: 2,678
Default

No, you're right. If IL wins the first round of bo7, we also have to win the second round of bo7 to actually win the playoffs. Although, if fLb wins the first bo7, that's it.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 05-28-2011, 05:15 AM
trendy11one trendy11one is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Moscow
Posts: 672
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by leggomyeggo View Post
No, you're right. If IL wins the first round of bo7, we also have to win the second round of bo7 to actually win the playoffs. Although, if fLb wins the first bo7, that's it.
APL3, 4, 5 and FFL also have Bo7 finals
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 05-28-2011, 06:36 AM
leggomyeggo leggomyeggo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l76jo1xRKb1qbe82eo1_500.jpg
Posts: 2,678
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elxir View Post
i think the fLb/IL finals are IL has to win two bo7s

but i could be wrong per usual
Nice use of the quote feature, trendy.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 05-28-2011, 12:08 PM
Dougie Dougie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London, UK
Posts: 528
Default

Personally, I'm not a fan of double eliminators, mainly because the final gives a massive psychological boost to the team that only needs to win 1 match from 2. It also seems a bit too tough on teams to have to go through two best of 7 matches. If every game takes an average of 20 minutes, You could be playing a final that lasts 4-5 hours!
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 05-28-2011, 12:31 PM
Ribilla Ribilla is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: In ur base, defusin' ur bombs.
Posts: 2,659
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougie View Post
Personally, I'm not a fan of double eliminators, mainly because the final gives a massive psychological boost to the team that only needs to win 1 match from 2. It also seems a bit too tough on teams to have to go through two best of 7 matches. If every game takes an average of 20 minutes, You could be playing a final that lasts 4-5 hours!
So split the final in two. Chances are the better team will win the first one anyway, and if they don't then it is a huge case for double elim, because the eventual winners (i.e. the best team) would never have got to the finals were it not for the losers bracket.

IMO the benefits of double elim far outweigh the disadvantages. It also gives teams over twice the amount of games, whilst only taking a couple more rounds at the end.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 05-28-2011, 01:05 PM
trendy11one trendy11one is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Moscow
Posts: 672
Default

There are some teams who play really less effective than others.
For example at APL 5 there was DS, BB, KLF who lost all their matches to rest of teams. This why i suggest to split teams on groups, where teams can provide close games. If some team becomes significantly better, it wouldnt be big problem to get 1st place in their group.
We may use double elim bo3 tourney or results of last SL(new entrants will play little tourney) to sort.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 05-28-2011, 01:25 PM
Ribilla Ribilla is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: In ur base, defusin' ur bombs.
Posts: 2,659
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by trendy11one View Post
There are some teams who play really less effective than others.
For example at APL 5 there was DS, BB, KLF who lost all their matches to rest of teams. This why i suggest to split teams on groups, where teams can provide close games. If some team becomes significantly better, it wouldnt be big problem to get 1st place in their group.
We may use double elim bo3 tourney or results of last SL(new entrants will play little tourney) to sort.
Depending on how you run the tourny, one of these problems will occur.

The best of the low group will still be worse than the worst of the best group, so if the winner of the low group goes through to the playoffs, this isn't fair on the worst of the high group.

Or

The low group can never get into the playoffs, even if they win, making playing in the tourny pointless.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 05-28-2011, 01:44 PM
sunshineduck sunshineduck is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: They were naked, I saw many pussy, I walked away. Call me gay but just saying.
Posts: 4,057
Default

well, there's certainly a point of playing in the league even if you don't have a chance of making the playoffs.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 05-28-2011, 02:16 PM
trendy11one trendy11one is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Moscow
Posts: 672
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribilla View Post
Depending on how you run the tourny, one of these problems will occur.

The best of the low group will still be worse than the worst of the best group, so if the winner of the low group goes through to the playoffs, this isn't fair on the worst of the high group.

Not really, since groups will be set according to last season/short tourney. Also a lot of teams changed since last season. There is no fun to play against team, who you can win 5v6. In same time games like arr vs tvo vs ball always pleasure to spec and play. Thats why those teams should play against each other more recently.

Or

The low group can never get into the playoffs, even if they win, making playing in the tourny pointless.
Also, to provide both types of tourney, we can play groups 2 times, as i suggested before. This will take 2-3 weeks for each part, like Andy said 4-5 weeks for round robin and 1-2 weeks for playoffs.
Random groups and after that groups with best teams.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 05-28-2011, 03:08 PM
rojo rojo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 371
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elxir View Post
i think the fLb/IL finals are IL has to win two bo7s

but i could be wrong per usual
I meant has there ever been a final that HAS gone to the 2nd bo7?
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 05-28-2011, 05:03 PM
andy andy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Italy
Posts: 1,967
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rojo View Post
I meant has there ever been a final that HAS gone to the 2nd bo7?
ACE vs fLb

fLb won first bo7 4-3 then ACE won 2nd bo7 4-0
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 05-28-2011, 05:09 PM
andy andy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Italy
Posts: 1,967
Default

I wanna see how many teams sign up and depending on the number then these could be the formats:

0-8 teams: regular season and playoffs

16 teams: 4 groups of 4 top 2 from each group go to playoffs

12 teams: 3 groups of 4 top 2 from each group go to playoffs

8< teams <12 : Events like SL3 but decided at the start of the league discussed with everyone.

Last edited by andy; 05-28-2011 at 05:47 PM. Reason: fail
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 05-28-2011, 05:45 PM
trendy11one trendy11one is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Moscow
Posts: 672
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy View Post
I wanna see how many teams sign up and depending on the number then these could be the formats:

0-8 teams: regular season and playoffs

16 teams: 4 groups of 4 top 2 from each group go to playoffs

12 teams: 3 groups of 4 top 2 from each group go to playoffs

8< teams <12 : Events like SL3 but decided at the start of the league discussed with everyone.
Fixed for you

If someone wouldn't make new team rapidly, we can get max of 15 teams, since TT not active anymore(their capt ufo is in A*)
And im not sure about F-15, F-16 and FT
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 05-28-2011, 05:47 PM
andy andy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Italy
Posts: 1,967
Default

Ya wasnt thinking lol
Im just asking team captains and it looks like we will have around 12 teams.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2008 Nimbly Games LLC