Permaban

[Zero]

im pretty sure i"ve been banned long enough =\

[elxir]

This is DEMAND 7 on Occupy Karlam, I expect it to be done forthwith. I am prepared to camp out and smoke marijuana in a New York park indefinitely.

[Zero]

pubs are sooooo boring =\

[Ingbo]

id be okay with having u be unbanned again like i said on mumble earlier. even giving u a clean slate when it comes to regular bannable offense starting off from ban 1 if u get banned again with the exception of in case u do get caught making some kind of malicious troll again ull go back to perma ban again for another year or whatever.

[Zero]

I agree with Ingbo

[[Y]]

This is an interesting subject. While nobo's ladder mods can do whatever they please, I think the admins should rethink permabans in general. The ladder community is small enough as it is, and the equivalent of a life sentence seems unreasonable for the extend of malicious conduct possible in this online 2D plane shooter. I mean, what was Zero's ban that broke the camel's back for? Some lame race insult? Are we really going to get so fired up over something so trivial that we need to hand out permabans? And yes, I do believe race/religion/other inflammatory topic jokes on the internet are trivial, especially with a handy in-game mute function. I'd say a year tops for repeat offenders. Enough time to learn the lesson but not enough time to make them completely lose interest in the game.

Free Zero and remove any other permabans, but ban him and any other for another year if they intentionally break the rules again.

On that related note, I'd also like to propose an ammendment to the ladder rules- the removal of rule 9 on the basis of the mute function. My argument is this. The mute function is your friend. If you are that deeply offended by a racist, stereotypical (there's a difference!), bigoted, or immature comment and can't stand to listen to that person any longer, show your superior maturity by not crying to the admins for some sort of moral revenge in getting him banned and _just_mute_him_. The rule also grossly generalizes and forces admins to make difficult judgement calls. How much racism/bigotry/immaturity/trash talk is needed to make it a bannable offence? What constitutes "trash talk"? When is it excessive? Besides, the only times I remember this rule being enforced is when race is brought up, and do we really need this rule around to whip out as justification to get someone I don't like banned because (God forbid!) he made a reference to my race?

[shmo55]

Originally Posted by [Y]

Free Zero and remove any other permabans

except for R!BZ

[Smushface]

Zero also repeatedly tried to get other people banned with misleading, trumped up, and sometimes outright fake evidence.

This is the biggest reason for why I supported a perma ban.

[beefheart]

Yeah permaban is like an altitude death penalty; people who get it will in general stop playing altitude altogether.

And besides in real life you will not get a death penalty for repetitive petty crime. I think the exponential punishment that ends at a permaban is out of line here and should be revised. Like in RL repetitive criminal behaviour should increase punishment but not from 2 minutes jail time to death in 6 steps.

[[Y]]

Originally Posted by Smushface

Zero also repeatedly tried to get other people banned with misleading, trumped up, and sometimes outright fake evidence.

This is the biggest reason for why I supported a perma ban.

Malicious intent to get other people banned- a more concrete reason for a permaban, but I would say that a more delicate way to deal with such a situation is to make it clear why he was being banned and then ban for a year. In accordance, you could replace rule 9 with something along the lines of "any attempt to undermine/abuse ladder authority".

[Goose]

didn't both York and sky have their permabans removed after an extended period of time? If that is true then i feel that Zero should also be allowed to play ladder once again considering that he has had his permaban the longest.

[elmofreak]

How long has it been? : o

[Tekn0]

Originally Posted by shmo55

except for R!BZ

This man surely has a good head on his shoulders.

[tomato man]

why should zero get unbanned ? if u unban him u should do the same with start...

[JDR]

Originally Posted by beefheart

Yeah permaban is like an altitude death penalty; people who get it will in general stop playing altitude altogether.

And besides in real life you will not get a death penalty for repetitive petty crime. I think the exponential punishment that ends at a permaban is out of line here and should be revised. Like in RL repetitive criminal behaviour should increase punishment but not from 2 minutes jail time to death in 6 steps.

If someone is willing to break the same rule repeatedly and pay their dues every single time, the system isn't working and the players that are affected have to deal with it every single time the person comes back. There absolutely has to be a permban somewhere down the line for the umpteenth petty offense.

[elxir]

Originally Posted by JDR

If someone is willing to break the same rule repeatedly and pay their dues every single time, the system isn't working and the players that are affected have to deal with it every single time the person comes back. There absolutely has to be a permban somewhere down the line for the umpteenth petty offense.

Yea, or for a major offense, like hacking the game.

[sunshineduck]

Originally Posted by elxir

Yea, or for a major offense, like hacking the game.

+10

charschars

[[Y]]

Originally Posted by JDR

If someone is willing to break the same rule repeatedly and pay their dues every single time, the system isn't working and the players that are affected have to deal with it every single time the person comes back. There absolutely has to be a permban somewhere down the line for the umpteenth petty offense.

I think you're overestimating people's willingness to break the rules and their willingness to serve annual sentences. If a player is willing to come back after a year-long hiatus, he must really want to play ladder and would therefore try extra hard to follow the rules.

And game hacking is moot. The issue is beyond the scope of ladder and the offender would be permanently banned from the game itself.

[shrode]

I agree that giving some of the people that have permabans another chance is a good idea.

At WORST, it ruins maybe a few games and they get banned again. Other people (the really bad kids) currently ruin way more games than unbanning people like zero and start would ruin before they potentially did something to get rebanned.

[DJ Nightost]

Originally Posted by beefheart

Yeah permaban is like an altitude death penalty; people who get it will in general stop playing altitude altogether.

And besides in real life you will not get a death penalty for repetitive petty crime. I think the exponential punishment that ends at a permaban is out of line here and should be revised. Like in RL repetitive criminal behaviour should increase punishment but not from 2 minutes jail time to death in 6 steps.

+1 well said.

[Zero]

yea so am i still banned?

[Ingbo]

were looking over it. i think theres a split camp atm so it might take some time. youll get to know within reasonable time what will happen tho however cannot give u a deadline on that decision atm.

[Zero]

ok thanks Ingbo

[elxir]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYqKC...eature=related

[Ingbo]

ait ban lifted temporarily at least (probably lifted overall too). cant guarantee its going to stick cause some of our head admins havent replied to it. i doubt theyre going to argue against giving u a 2nd chance after this long tho. like i said earlier if u start trolling again ur going back to perma so make sure u behave now. welcome back furthermore