Keyboard vs Mouse (Video)

[mssv]

Ok, since I keep hearing absurd QQs I'm just going to prove how OP keyboard is compared to mouse with a simple video.

Notice how solid keyboard is, don't even stall after getting hit!! Even at minimum speed!! That's sooo broken...

So now, how do we balance this?? Give more sustain to mouse users? Give more immunity vs rockets?? Give keyboard less stability to match it to mouse levels? Any ideas?
After playing since the beginning with mouse I find that so OP nothing a line and a crosshair needed for ur plane to work can match. Get the line and crosshair if you want, give us some more stability or nerf yours!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSGyaEnSV2Q

[Ribilla]

Notice as well how difficult it is to close combat with mouse.

[Rayne Xerces]

Originally Posted by Ribilla

Notice as well how difficult it is to close combat with mouse.

Are you sure it is difficult to close combat with mouse? I am a fairly new player (pure mouse), and I find it easier to close combat with mouse. Basically, close combat will depend more on skill than on the control, as people maybe more used to kb than mouse (or vice-versa). So, regarding balance of controls this is not a valid point. As for kb's increased resistance to stalling I don't know. Should not be that way.

[blln4lyf]

I get stalled all the time on KB by rockets..

[Ribilla]

Originally Posted by Rayne Xerces

Are you sure it is difficult to close combat with mouse? I am a fairly new player (pure mouse), and I find it easier to close combat with mouse. Basically, close combat will depend more on skill than on the control, as people maybe more used to kb than mouse (or vice-versa). So, regarding balance of controls this is not a valid point. As for kb's increased resistance to stalling I don't know. Should not be that way.

It's much easier to get fine control when using keyboard because you can keep a constant throttle when turning in a tight circle.

I tend to play Co-op servers using keyboard just because a lot of the maps are basically impossible using mouse.

[Rayne Xerces]

Yeah, the throttle is a problem. Thats why I am starting to use the Hybrid controls (kb+mouse)...

[mssv]

Originally Posted by blln4lyf

I get stalled all the time on KB by rockets..

Hhahaha, n1

[Ribilla]

Originally Posted by blln4lyf

I get stalled all the time on KB by rockets..

No one is saying that you aren't. This is just trying to demonstrate, in a controlled environment, that thermo ****s mouse up something chronic.

[mssv]

Also, I just realised afterburning after getting hit it's not meant to work like that, KB don't afterburn randomly like mouse.
Is that a bug?? Always found that extremely annoying because it burns all the energy when most needed but seems like other control types don't suffer from that issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...yaEnSV2Q#t=24s

Crosshair it's not in afterburning position... Works like that for you too Rib or it's just me?

[Ribilla]

Originally Posted by mssv

Also, I just realised afterburning after getting hit it's not meant to work like that, KB don't afterburn randomly like mouse.
Is that a bug?? Always found that extremely annoying because it burns all the energy when most needed but seems like other control types don't suffer from that issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...yaEnSV2Q#t=24s

Crosshair it's not in afterburning position... Works like that for you too Rib or it's just me?

It's all mouse, that's pretty much the reason why the thermo nerf came into existence. Thermo is still super strong against mouse despite Tekno's wild allegations that it doesn't effect mouse users at all.

[DICK van DYKE]

Why did u guys even start using pure mouse and why use it over kb+mouse?

[mssv]

Originally Posted by DICK van DYKE

Why did u guys even start using pure mouse and why use it over kb+mouse?

It was the default control type when I started playing. I once did try to learn kb but it was too late, passing thru the learning process again was too painful.

[shmo55]

I'd just like to point out that the second missile (the one during the mouse test) isn't thermo, as it has an orange/yellow explosion, not a blue one. Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but this video doesn't actually compare anything :x

[Bio]

I dont know what is "better" but i think that every player prefer its own way.
I'm playing keyboard since i started playing (Im now ace 3) and im fine with it...

[Ribilla]

Originally Posted by shmo55

I'd just like to point out that the second missile (the one during the mouse test) isn't thermo, as it has an orange/yellow explosion, not a blue one. Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but this video doesn't actually compare anything :x

Do it again.

[mssv]

Originally Posted by shmo55

I'd just like to point out that the second missile (the one during the mouse test) isn't thermo, as it has an orange/yellow explosion, not a blue one. Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but this video doesn't actually compare anything :x

I'm no comparing rockets, whale bot on both tests was just a coincidence. But thx for pointing it out, it proves that is even more broken than i thought. The keyboard bip is not affected by thermo at all. Mouse bip is much more affected by a regular whale. Thermo against mouse is ten times stronger than regular whales so you get the point.

[Aki1024]

Originally Posted by mssv

I'm no comparing rockets, whale bot on both tests was just a coincidence. But thx for pointing it out, it proves that is even more broken than i thought.

It looked to me while watching the video you were comparing Whale missile effect on each control style.

You complained of the thruster happening on regular missile but you thought it was thermo. Does the thrust amount on KB get altered when a regular missile hits them, or do they thrust too? Is your plane thrusting to try to get you up to speed as fast as it can? Doesn't any thrust request at all while stalled result in the thruster firing (KB or Mouse)? Defend the House.

[Ribilla]

Originally Posted by mssv

I'm no comparing rockets, whale bot on both tests was just a coincidence. But thx for pointing it out, it proves that is even more broken than i thought. The keyboard bip is not affected by thermo at all. Mouse bip is much more affected by a regular whale. Thermo against mouse is ten times stronger than regular whales so you get the point.

MSSV, if you want to make a point you have to redo the video, you can't just say "thermo is 10 times worse", because it just gets into the same old say whatever you want thing that blln and Tek have been so great at when it comes to nerfing mouse. You need to substantiate your claims. Do it again.

[mssv]

Ohhh heyy, don't make me work like that, I'm going to need a second person for those tests tho. I'll see what I can do later on.

[DMCM]

Thermo probably doesn't affect kb in the first video because:

a) You're flying at minimum speed, Thermo's affect is stronger the faster you fly

b) You're circling, depending on where the Thermo is detonated you may not feel it at all if you're circling (i.e. if you're spinning clockwise, you'll barely feel it unless it pulls you counterclockwise)


I can't say for sure if this needs an adjustment. What I do think is that Thermo's only way of killing people is by making them crash. The plane is slow and the damage is not very good, you'd need 3-4 rockets to kill a biplane if you can't make it crash.

So whatever adjustements are made, I just hope they don't mess with Thermo or other planes' resistance to it. This game is already brutally dominated by light planes, don't ruin it for heavies like they did with TBD.

[Ribilla]

Originally Posted by DMCM

Thermo probably doesn't affect kb in the first video because:

a) You're flying at minimum speed, Thermo's affect is stronger the faster you fly

b) You're circling, depending on where the Thermo is detonated you may not feel it at all if you're circling (i.e. if you're spinning clockwise, you'll barely feel it unless it pulls you counterclockwise)


I can't say for sure if this needs an adjustment. What I do think is that Thermo's only way of killing people is by making them crash. The plane is slow and the damage is not very good, you'd need 3-4 rockets to kill a biplane if you can't make it crash.

So whatever adjustements are made, I just hope they don't mess with Thermo or other planes' resistance to it. This game is already brutally dominated by light planes, don't ruin it for heavies like they did with TBD.

I don't think anyone was calling for a thermo nerf, it's to try and demonstrate that when people like Tekno say things like "Thermo now has no effect on mouse, mouse is OP, blah blah blah" with absolutely zero evidence we can point them here and tell them to shut up with their lies.

[blln4lyf]

I'm completely willing to listen to your stance but I'm not sure what you are implying. Thermo moves your direction, director pushes you(into stalls and such). What is this video supposed to show?

As for thermo, the majority of the mouse users I've talked to believe it effects mouse less than KB even with the nuances mouse house against it because the 20% reduction or whatever it was is too great. I'm not sitting here asking for mouse thermo to be adjusted because truthfully I don't know and I think it's a lesser issue. When I tested mouse to get a good sense of the user control for a week it was before the adjustment was made.

[Ribilla]

Originally Posted by blln4lyf

I'm completely willing to listen to your stance but I'm not sure what you are implying. Thermo moves your direction, director pushes you(into stalls and such). What is this video supposed to show? As for thermo, the majority of the mouse users I've talked to believe it effects mouse less than KB even with the nuances mouse house against it because the 20% reduction or whatever it was is too great.

it's supposed to be thermo all the way through the video and it's supposed to show that thermo has a much greater effect on mouse than it does on KB users.

[blln4lyf]

Originally Posted by Ribilla

it's supposed to be thermo all the way through the video and it's supposed to show that thermo has a much greater effect on mouse than it does on KB users.

Maybe in that situation it does, but maybe when flying full speed it has less of once since mouse has some resistance to thermo. One video, if even done correctly which this one isn't, wouldn't prove much, and the only reason I don't respect your thoughts on the matter is because you defend your plane, your user control ever since mouse or lazer nerfs have been suggested since day 1. I'm trying to suggest what I think is best for the game, maybe I am wrong at times but with me you can't say I'm protecting my planes since every plane I play( TA, lazer, trick) I am suggesting a nerf for.

[mssv]

Originally Posted by blln4lyf

Maybe in that situation it does, but maybe when flying full speed it has less of once since mouse has some resistance to thermo. One video, if even done correctly which this one isn't, wouldn't prove much, and the only reason I don't respect your thoughts on the matter is because you defend your plane, your user control ever since mouse or lazer nerfs have been suggested since day 1. I'm trying to suggest what I think is best for the game, maybe I am wrong at times but with me you can't say I'm protecting my planes since every plane I play( TA, lazer, trick) I am suggesting a nerf for.

Look, I'm getting fed up of this community already and it's not worth any second of my time so this is going to be my last post on here. Sorry to make it personal but you are very representative of some ppl in here.

Originally Posted by blln4lyf

Maybe..., but maybe when..., I'm trying... to what I think is..., maybe I am...

Stop ****ing "maybe" and test stuff for yourself, If you and all the other people complaining about how they suck looking for excuses would just test it by themselves we wouldn't be talking about that at all.

Originally Posted by blln4lyf

since mouse has some resistance to thermo

Prove it, make a video "maybe"?? And then:

Originally Posted by blln4lyf

even if your video is done correctly it wouldn't prove much

See how pointless is to discusss anything in here, it's like freaking herpaderping all over the place. I'm done, good luck.

[classicallad]

Originally Posted by mssv

I'm done, good luck.

='/

Your vid is pretty conclusive to me too mate. No need to lose your cool about it though bro =/

I know trying to get through to people here sometimes feels like trying to flog a dead horse, believe me, i know.

Fact is that mouse control and KB are different, thats it. Some may argue that mouse has an advantage with aim, while others argue that it has disadvantages with throttle control and movement. Personally i think both arguments are valid, your video clearly shows that, bot or human player - *NEWSFLASH* it's still a rocket!

Weather or not control issues are dealt with in the patch, mouse users always have the option of using keyboard if they feel that they are SO much at a disadvantage or visa versa. Personally mouse feels weird and unnatural for me.

Hope you stick around bud.

[Demuyt]

calm the **** down

[classicallad]

Oh hai Dem

[blln4lyf]

Lol. Didnt know stating different variables would lead to different conclusions is useless.

And class director pushes, of course it will stall someone barely moving, while thermo changes direction. That specific video shows nothing. Bot or human doesn't change that director and thermo rockets do different things.

[Radium]

best thing about that whole video was the fact that you named your youtube account hasmuerto

[mssv]

Originally Posted by Radium

best thing about that whole video was the fact that you named your youtube account hasmuerto

Best thing about this thread is you feeling the urge to post something about me bringing absolutely nothing to the matter.

It's an old nickname, do you have a problem with it, Radium??

Let's see... "Radium is an almost pure-white alkaline earth metal, but it readily oxidizes on exposure to air, becoming black in color."
Ok... Remember to be careful with that or you will become a crappy piece of metal. Oh wait... you can't escape air! :O

"Because of such instability, radium is luminescent, glowing a faint blue."
I see... Make sense now... I'm sorry for you man

So... Your point is??

[leggomyeggo]

see it's funny because your video brought nothing to the matter either. please don't make fun of my name too, i'm fragile.

[Ribilla]

Originally Posted by blln4lyf

I don't respect your thoughts on the matter is because you defend your plane, your user control ever since mouse or lazer nerfs have been suggested since day 1.

Calling bull****.

First and foremost, it's not like a play a huge amount any more, secondly I only ever make sound arguments in the name of balance rather than just making these completely unjustified claims ('mouse is easier than KB' - blln and Tek).

"Because the crosshair is by far more of an advantage." This is the kind of thing you say without any actual evidence, just below a post I made which explained why taking away the line and replacing it with a cone would solve the majority of any problem. You have never played with a crosshair and so whether you think I'm biased or not, what you're saying that carries absolutely zero weight.

Why don't you check out who started the original thread which got laser nerfed in the first place? Found it: http://altitudegame.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7311

Also the nerfs I've asked for in the other balance threads that have sprung up in the last few weeks.

[Radium]

Originally Posted by leggomyeggo

see it's funny because your video brought nothing to the matter either. please don't make fun of my name too, i'm fragile.

how could he make fun of your name
you're named after the best breakfast food

[mssv]

Originally Posted by leggomyeggo

see it's funny because your video brought nothing to the matter either. please don't make fun of my name too, i'm fragile.

I see... You are the kind or ppl that never brings anything but always try to take down ppl proposals and think everyone act same as you. Sad indeed... Also kudos for defending your ppl like a boss, leggo badass of teh internetz!

[Demuyt]

Originally Posted by classicallad

Oh hai Dem

hellow hows everything?

[elixirwithani]

is this your middle school science project

i think youre going to fail

[zz-]

LOL whoever is playing in that video sucks at circling with mouse

[AzzedariuSuiradezza]

The essence of Altitude is having the smallest penis and being the angriest about it.

[leggomyeggo]

Originally Posted by mssv

I see... You are the kind or ppl that never brings anything but always try to take down ppl proposals and think everyone act same as you. Sad indeed... Also kudos for defending your ppl like a boss, leggo badass of teh internetz!

i told you i was fragile. stop it mssv you're hurting my feelings!