Removing black borders when using mouse control

[Moon]

Is it possible to disable the view scrolling off the map when using a mouse? I get the idea behind it, but I would much rather compensate for the lack of mouse manoeuvrability on the screen, than losing view distance when I'm near the edges of the map. I lose like 1/3 - 1/4 of my view distance :/

[blarg]

there's a setting for that in the config/options.xml file. change it to say cameraCenterPolicy="NEVER" i think. there's a thread with more info here if that doesn't work: http://altitudegame.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8237

[Winters Ark]

Pros and cons of using mouse over keyboard:

Pros:
- Better aiming
- Can see the general location of the goal when it is offscreen
- Thermo barely effects you
- Use the least amount of energy possible to get out of stall

Cons:
- Lose 1/3 to 1/4 of map view when at edges of the map

Sounds balanced to me.

[Moon]

Originally Posted by blarg

there's a setting for that in the config/options.xml file. change it to say cameraCenterPolicy="NEVER" i think. there's a thread with more info here if that doesn't work: http://altitudegame.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8237

"NEVER" didn't work producing the same effects as discussed in the thread you linked, but "MOUSE_NEVER" on the other hand did the trick! Thanks for the help.

Originally Posted by Winters Ark

Pros and cons of using mouse over keyboard:

Pros:
- Better aiming
- Can see the general location of the goal when it is offscreen
- Thermo barely effects you
- Use the least amount of energy possible to get out of stall

Cons:
- Lose 1/3 to 1/4 of map view when at edges of the map

Sounds balanced to me.

Wasn't aware about the second pro, I've never even really paid that much attention to that icon especially after I've learned the map layout. Anyway I have to agree that in my opinion also, the mouse is generally better than kb. I'm still in mild disbelief that the majority of the players use kb. Mouse or should I say hybrid (kb+mouse) controls are just so much more intuitive.

[MajorPayne257]

Originally Posted by Moon

Wasn't aware about the second pro, I've never even really paid that much attention to that icon especially after I've learned the map layout. Anyway I have to agree that in my opinion also, the mouse is generally better than kb. I'm still in mild disbelief that the majority of the players use kb. Mouse or should I say hybrid (kb+mouse) controls are just so much more intuitive.

Thousands of hours on the kb makes change SCARY

[blarg]

Originally Posted by Winters Ark

Pros and cons of using mouse over keyboard:

Pros:
- Better aiming
- Can see the general location of the goal when it is offscreen
- Thermo barely effects you
- Use the least amount of energy possible to get out of stall

Cons:
- Lose 1/3 to 1/4 of map view when at edges of the map

Sounds balanced to me.

though i mainly use mouse, i play kb sometimes and have about 100 hours at it so far (mostly randa).

kb:
- aiming is more natural (requires less thought & effort)
- aiming is faster and more accurate for close & mid range shots
- you can aim by turning and letting off the shot at the right time in the turn, essential for optimal play with every plane (but especially hc and randa); you can kinda do this with mouse, but it's much less natural and you of course lose the advantage of the cursor
- randa 180/anchor is stronger because you don't have to move your cursor to account for the new facing; it's impossible to be as precise with mouse
- better for randa (except laser), hc, whale, bomber

mouse:
- flying is more natural; mouse is like swimming, kb is like driving
- better flight control makes it easier to grab balls and falling powerups
- a little easier to get out of stalls
- aiming is easier when you have time to line up the shot
- thermo ****S UP YOUR ****.. you kb players don't understand how frustrating it is. i would much rather thermo have a stronger effect on mouse than kb but not move your cursor. i'm honestly surprised every time i come out ok after being hit by a thermo, with kb it's a joke in comparison.
- see less thanks to camera centering
- randa warp is stronger due to better flight control
- better for laser, loopy, recoilless

if you don't believe me that aiming is better on kb, all i can say is that with just a fraction of the practice, my results are way better on kb in most situations. with a few hundred more hours on kb i'm pretty sure i'd have consistent dragon level aim (but i'd still be terrible at flying >.<).

edit: also kb gives you more precise flight control, which makes it better for heavier planes with enough skill. this is all just from my experience and my specific playstyle ofc. all in all i think the two control methods are balanced enough that there can be good competition between players of each type. i would take that thermo change tho.. that mechanic is just awful for mouse. another solution to that might be to make the rotation effect equal for each and only move the mouse cursor half the distance or so.

[VAN1SH1NG]

Originally Posted by blarg

aiming is better on kb

You must have a really bad or broken mouse.

Originally Posted by Winters Ark

(mouse) Thermo barely effects you

No idea how anyone can say this. Anytime there is a thermo whale around I avoid it over anything else or fly so slow I am almost stalling. No chance of survival if I have much speed at all and get turned in the direction of a relatively close wall.

[Kennedy]

Originally Posted by Winters Ark

Pros and cons of using mouse over keyboard:

Pros:
- Better aiming
- Can see the general location of the goal when it is offscreen
- Thermo barely effects you
- Use the least amount of energy possible to get out of stall

Cons:
- Lose 1/3 to 1/4 of map view when at edges of the map

Sounds balanced to me.

Ark have you ever used mouse? Thermal affects mouse users wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy <--- a lot

more than keyboard. it's basically impossible to compensate for.

It's also much harder to turn tight corners with mouse - that's why it's so easy to tell a mouse user from keyboard, since their entire flying pattern has to change.

[Winters Ark]

Wolf and I did tests to see how strongly Thermo effects mouse over keyboard when flying at full speed as Loopy. With keyboard he wasn't able to do anything about it, but with mouse he was able to survive and was barely turned at all. That test explained to us why a lot of people are able to live through our Thermos and be barely effected by it.

[blarg]

Originally Posted by VAN1SH1NG

You must have a really bad or broken mouse.

my mouse is fine, and i'm quite good with it. when i'm playing at my peak with hc i can hit very near 100% of my shots. the thing is, doing this aim takes a lot of thought compared to with kb. you have to keep your cursor in the right place by looking at your target and figuring out the lead while at the same time being aware of your own plane's position and rotation so you know when you're lined up. for me anyway, this gives less brain power/attention to devote to tactical & strategic thinking and watching the rest of my screen to keep track of the game. this is why i say mouse aim is easier, but kb aim is better.

with kb, the aim comes effortlessly once i have the feel down, but i have to put a lot more thought into flying. while i can fly and aim more or less adequately with both control schemes, they each require different amounts of attention just to execute the mechanics. with my current abilities, the effort i need to fly kb exceeds that required to aim with mouse; i think this is the main reason i play better with mouse.

Originally Posted by VAN1SH1NG

Anytime there is a thermo whale around I avoid it over anything else or fly so slow I am almost stalling. No chance of survival if I have much speed at all and get turned in the direction of a relatively close wall.

yup... same ((

Originally Posted by Winters Ark

Wolf and I did tests to see how strongly Thermo effects mouse over keyboard when flying at full speed as Loopy. With keyboard he wasn't able to do anything about it, but with mouse he was able to survive and was barely turned at all. That test explained to us why a lot of people are able to live through our Thermos and be barely effected by it.

i don't think anyone is disputing that thermo has a stronger effect on kb. the problem is that with mouse it actually ****s up your ability to control the plane by moving the cursor to some unpredictable place. mouse controls relies on the hand knowing where your cursor is. when you get thermo'd your cursor warps to some new place on the screen and you have to see that with your eyes and then adjust your mental hand positioning framework, which is not easy.

for example, say i'm flying left and so i have my mouse left of the center of my mouse pad. now i get hit by a thermo, say it rotates me downward; my cursor will warp from left of my plane to left and down. but my hand is still just left of the center of the pad, so the origin position on the pad has actually been moved up from the center (and not just straight up, actually it is being rotated ccw around your mouse's current position). this is not the end of the world, but it takes your hand a moment to figure out what is going on. the result is that it takes significantly longer to regain control after being hit by thermo with mouse, and that means you will die a lot easier to it if you get turned toward a wall. i'm sure there are mouse players who are better at reacting to it than me though.

[Tekn0]

the result is that it takes significantly longer to regain control after being hit by thermo with mouse,

With keyboard you don't have this problem. You are correct. One has to be alive in order to recover.

[blarg]

Originally Posted by Tekn0

With keyboard you don't have this problem. You are correct. One has to be alive in order to recover.

want to do a thermo duel, me using kb and you using mouse?

[[hlx] entr0py]

It should be cameraCenterPolicy="NEVER_MOUSE" and make sure you actually saved the change into the config file.

[Tekn0]

Originally Posted by blarg

want to do a thermo duel, me using kb and you using mouse?

This has already been tested time and time before. See Ark's post and if he has the time to do the same thing he experimented with Wolf with you.

[wolf'j'max]

Originally Posted by blarg

i don't think anyone is disputing that thermo has a stronger effect on kb. the problem is that with mouse it actually ****s up your ability to control the plane by moving the cursor to some unpredictable place.

At first I didn't know how to respond, but I got it figured out pretty quickly and realised it wasn't all that hard to recover from a thermo shot with mouse. If you're actively watching where your crosshair is and know how to respond then it isn't a huge deal as a mouse user imo.

edit: I just realised the genre of games one plays can hugely affect this. I've had about 400 ish hours in FPS's which have mostly been in the last year so I do realise that gives me an edge over people who don't play those games. I still believe you can easily get used to it and it shouldn't take much practice though. I guess awareness of the shot in our tests plays a huge factor but that could be worked around.

[Aki1024]

Originally Posted by wolf'j'max

I guess awareness of the shot in our tests plays a huge factor but that could be worked around.

The obvious solution is for us to ask for Lamster and Karl for invisible and silent thermal missiles. For science!

[blarg]

Originally Posted by Tekn0

This has already been tested time and time before. See Ark's post and if he has the time to do the same thing he experimented with Wolf with you.

not to test anything, i just want to blast you with thermos while you are forced to use mouse control. (also it was a joke)

Originally Posted by wolf'j'max

I guess awareness of the shot in our tests plays a huge factor but that could be worked around.

yea.. i wouldn't call reacting to thermo in a closed environment where you have nothing else to worry about a fair test.

[Winters Ark]

Originally Posted by blarg

yea.. i wouldn't call reacting to thermo in a closed environment where you have nothing else to worry about a fair test.

Apparently what we learned from this, according to blarg, is if you aren't paying attention then Thermo will always **** your **** up. If you are paying attention Thermo will only do damage to you. Time to switch to Director!

[mssv]

Thermo is so broken against full mouse... Hope Lams takes a look to it, it's too strong compared to any other perk.

[blarg]

Originally Posted by Winters Ark

Apparently what we learned from this, according to blarg, is if you aren't paying attention then Thermo will always **** your **** up. If you are paying attention Thermo will only do damage to you. Time to switch to Director!

i'm just trying to say that it's a complex issue and there is more to it than how much the missile turns your plane. furthermore, i think doing an adequately scientific test is nontrivial. the test you described sounds very far from actual game conditions. i'd much rather see stats from ladder/league about death rate after being hit by thermo among high level kb & mouse players or something like that.

Originally Posted by mssv

Thermo is so broken against full mouse...

and i'm only a "half" mouse player... mssv has it way worse ;/

[Tekn0]

Originally Posted by blarg

and i'm only a "half" mouse player... mssv has it way worse ;/

Full mouse players have the most thermo resistance of all... you've got to be kidding.

[mssv]

And you know that because? It's not like i'm the only one with access to full mouse, test it by yourself as I did.

Why keep repeating a lie without testing it...

[Tekn0]

Originally Posted by mssv

And you know that because? It's not like i'm the only one with access to full mouse, test it by yourself as I did.

Why keep repeating a lie without testing it...

Thermo has hardly any effect on full mouse, especially after the 20% buff which was waay too much. It seems you should be the one doing the testing... on keyboard! : )

[mssv]

You mean when it was 180º turn every rocket?? Oh yeah great buff, now it's just +90º...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...UnUciy8#t=143s

If you call that hardly any effect considering it mess all the throttle you are just a sad loser. How on earth 90º turn and an almost 100% guaranteed stall it's having any resistance to it?

Tell me.

[Radium]

Originally Posted by mssv

You mean when it was 180º turn every rocket?? Oh yeah great buff, now it's just +90º...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...UnUciy8#t=143s

If you call that hardly any effect considering it mess all the throttle you are just a sad loser. How on earth 90º turn and an almost 100% guaranteed stall it's having any resistance to it?

Tell me.

WOW that bm tho

[blarg]

Originally Posted by Tekn0

It seems you should be the one doing the testing... on keyboard! : )

well, i did this, which is the reason this discussion began in the first place. as i already said, i find thermo to be way less of a threat when playing kb (compared to half mouse, dunno about full). but whatever.. wasn't really trying to start another thermo debate and it seems like my points about it are being ignored anyway. i think my observations about aim and flying are more interesting.

[DICK van DYKE]

doesnt matter what u play if u suck dick ull suck dick and if ur good ull be good
now lets all join hands and be friends

[mssv]

Sorry but I hate when ppl demean others implying it's harder for them and such.

[Tekn0]

Originally Posted by mssv

Sorry but I hate when ppl demean others implying it's harder for them and such.

Somehow your random video is supposed to be proof that full mouse is the worst affected by thermo? Please.

plus, you're the one demeaning others calling them liars implying it's harder for full mouse. Again, please.

It's downright funny how the minority is the most vocal and argumentative group.. even in a video game. The fact that most people are not full mouse doesn't mean squat.

[mssv]

"Somehow your random video is supposed to be proof that full mouse is the worst affected by thermo? Please."

- No, it's only proving that full mouse it's not immune to thermo as you state earlier.

"plus, you're the one demeaning others calling them liars implying it's harder for full mouse. Again, please."

- I'm not trying to point that it's harder, I'm just saying we are not immune to it as you were trying to spread the lie. And just pointing out that there's a negative effect that it's not obvious to see which is it mess all the throttle provoking stall most of the time.

"It's downright funny how the minority is the most vocal and argumentative group.. even in a video game. The fact that most people are not full mouse doesn't mean squat."

- So, by being minority I can't defend myself? You (as many others) are spreading the lie that full mouse has an unfair advantage over you control type, when this happens I'm forced to prove you wrong. Funny enough it's that at the end full mouse it's more affected than any other control type since it mess all the throttle, kb and kb+mouse are immune to throttle mess.
I'm not opening threads asking for a change, but when ppl spread lies I will expose the truth and ofc I will try to turn any negativity into something positive.
So please quit lying to yourself.

[Tekn0]

Originally Posted by mssv

"Somehow your random video is supposed to be proof that full mouse is the worst affected by thermo? Please."

- No, it's only proving that full mouse it's not immune to thermo as you state earlier.

"plus, you're the one demeaning others calling them liars implying it's harder for full mouse. Again, please."

- I'm not trying to point that it's harder, I'm just saying we are not immune to it as you were trying to spread the lie. And just pointing out that there's a negative effect that it's not obvious to see which is it mess all the throttle provoking stall most of the time.

"It's downright funny how the minority is the most vocal and argumentative group.. even in a video game. The fact that most people are not full mouse doesn't mean squat."

- So, by being minority I can't defend myself? You (as many others) are spreading the lie that full mouse has an unfair advantage over you control type, when this happens I'm forced to prove you wrong. Funny enough it's that at the end full mouse it's more affected than any other control type since it mess all the throttle, kb and kb+mouse are immune to throttle mess.
I'm not opening threads asking for a change, but when ppl spread lies I will expose the truth and ofc I will try to turn any negativity into something positive.
So please quit lying to yourself.

First off, throttle doesn't mean much with keyboard here as even if start to slow down as quick as you can without stalling with the keyboard (and getting out of stalls is harder with the keyboard), you're still going to violently hit against a wall.

Full mouse currently has the most thermo resistance. It's not without a reason that me, Ark and others have noticed this extra thermo resistance.

So instead of calling everyone liars, stick to the argument. It won't take long for me to be condescending or to make personal attacks on you, but I usually try my best to keep it out of the actual argument.

I'm not saying you shouldn't "defend" yourself because mouse users are a minority. If we had far more full mouse users, more people would realize the extra advantage it has against thermo. I agree before the buff it was messed up but the 20% buff was a bit too much.

[mssv]

Look, I'm playing full mouse and I opened a thread not too long ago suggesting a crosshair and a line as an option for kb users willing to have it so controls would be more homogeneous between the 3 options. That says a lot already, I'm not complaining about black borders, or how solid is kb against full mouse or whatever but when I hear ppl claiming full mouse is immune to thermo I have to make clear that's a lie. There's a lot of ppl always trying to nerf others control types, I find that pretty pathetic for several reasons.

I've recorded a test where you will be able to see there's no immunity as you claim, it's pretty much the same.
But as I said earlier, full mouse equilibrium it's pretty fragile and against the same thermo effect it has a bigger impact because:

It's simple logic, I control throttle with the moving of the crosshair, it also affects my turning. If I have my mouse in East position and all of a sudden it's South, I have to lift off the mouse (something really annoying on which I have no experience from any other game), by lifting off mouse crosshair becomes unpredictable and I lose control for that time. When settling back crosshair makes that random movement when optical sensor contacts mousepad and at the end I spend a lot of time doing all that process, so thermo negative effect doesn't end on the simple turning effect but it begins on all that process I explained above which is the real annoying thing.
Where on kb you just press a key with a finger already on it.

Video will be up tomorrow.

[mssv]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15WKwmwdxcE

[Tekn0]

. Kudos for recording and all, but I'm sorry that video doesn't really prove anything.

With full mouse at the beginning, you use nearly full throttle and die.... and with keyboard you're not doing the same. This isn't a very objective test - it just shows a few thermos from random positions with random throttle.

I never said mouse was totally immune, i just said the resistance buff in that patch was a tad too much.

Mouse is a continuous stream of inputs, you control throttle all the time with keyboard you have to adjust the throttle in a less fine grained manner i.e. with individual keypresses. Unless you're coming to a complete stall by holding down the key, you actually have finer throttle control with mouse.

In any case, I don't think the majority of the community cares at this point to really nerf anything, so you don't have to get all worried about mouse being nerfed. Just for the record, I didn't really start this whole argument, I just decided to join when I heard 'aiming with kb is easier'. To be honest, I don't really care anymore about mouse vs kb. I'm just arguing for the sake of it from this point on.

[mssv]

Originally Posted by Tekn0

. Kudos for recording and all, but I'm sorry that video doesn't really prove anything.

With full mouse at the beginning, you use nearly full throttle and die.... and with keyboard you're not doing the same. This isn't a very objective test - it just shows a few thermos from random positions with random throttle.

I never said mouse was totally immune, i just said the resistance buff in that patch was a tad too much.

Mouse is a continuous stream of inputs, you control throttle all the time with keyboard you have to adjust the throttle in a less fine grained manner i.e. with individual keypresses. Unless you're coming to a complete stall by holding down the key, you actually have finer throttle control with mouse.

In any case, I don't think the majority of the community cares at this point to really nerf anything, so you don't have to get all worried about mouse being nerfed. Just for the record, I didn't really start this whole argument, I just decided to join when I heard 'aiming with kb is easier'. To be honest, I don't really care anymore about mouse vs kb. I'm just arguing for the sake of it from this point on.

Just lol, best troll post ever.

[blarg]

Originally Posted by Tekn0

Just for the record, I didn't really start this whole argument, I just decided to join when I heard 'aiming with kb is easier'.

Originally Posted by blarg

mouse:
- aiming is easier when you have time to line up the shot

Originally Posted by blarg

this is why i say mouse aim is easier, but kb aim is better.

just for the record

[Tekn0]

Originally Posted by mssv

Just lol, best troll post ever.

I think you missed the "from this point on" but whatever

[Tekn0]

@Blarg:
Aiming is easier when you have time to line up the shot.

The long shots are the most difficult ones. Isn't it fair to say the closer you are to the goal, the aiming becomes easier?

For long(er) shots mouse DOES help more versus keyboard. An example, VipmattMan who has mastered both mouse and keyboard said that with mouse the shot from the bottom of planepark is significantly more consistent to hit with the mouse. I'm not going to bother with searching and finding his post, if you still care about this i suppose you could find the post for yourself

Yeah, i'm bored too.