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| Map Making Discuss everything related to creating new levels here. |
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#2
01-30-2009, 12:27 AM
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Block World
This is the first map I made and it is called Block World. The idea was to have the bases up high and the bomb down low in order to create the obstacle of working with your team to fly the bomb upward. I also placed the bases in the middle of the map and created access points from each base to the central bomb chute. The idea was that each team would be able to easily traverse their own access point but since the point was heavily guarded by turrets, the opposing team would have a harder time using it. The sides of the map are also traversable which was made possible by placing the bases in the center.
In the end, I think that the map's ideas were just pushed too far to work. I think that the bases ended up being too high to carry the bomb up to the base effectively and the blocks and tight passageways created it tough to travel the level well. However, there are concepts that I like about this map that I may return to in the future. Download link: http://wiki.altitudegame.com/wiki/im...lockworld.altx Last edited by nesnl; 10-28-2009 at 04:37 AM. 
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#3
01-30-2009, 12:28 AM
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Middle Ground
The second map I made was Middle Ground. This map turned out to be a much better success than Block World because the concept stayed truer to the original Altitude maps but also because I was fortunate to be able to use the graphics from Lost City, Cave, and Hills.
The concept was simple. Raise the bases towards the vertical center of the map and then create an underground passageway as a change in dynamic from the original maps. The one major change that I made in this map was to create one central neutral bomb. I felt that in playing maps like Lost City, teams were segregated on their respective sides of the map. It almost always seemed counter productive to cross the central threshold unless you were carrying/transporting your own bomb to the opposing base. On top of that there were too many players who do continuous loops around the bomb waiting for it to spawn which basically rendered them useless for 30 seconds each time. The central neutral bomb was to create a common battleground in an effort to force teams to fight over the territory. Download link: http://www.mediafire.com/file/mim1dj...dleground.altx
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#4
01-30-2009, 12:29 AM
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Middle Ground 2
The third map I made was Middle Ground 2, which is just another iteration of Middle Ground. It is the exact same concept except it has 4 holes to the cave area of the map in order to create "more creative game play" (Pillars' words).
Download link: http://www.mediafire.com/file/2tmncj...leground2.altx
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#5
01-30-2009, 12:30 AM
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Middle Ground 3
The fourth map I made was Middle Ground 3, which again is just another iteration of Middle Ground. Not satisfied with 4 holes, the total number was increased to 5 holes. No word yet if more holes are possible as it may just be so many that it would literally blow your mind.
Download link: http://www.mediafire.com/file/l2tm0c...leground3.altx Last edited by nesnl; 10-15-2009 at 08:12 PM.
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#6
01-30-2009, 12:31 AM
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The Core
The fifth map I made was The Core. It started with a simple idea which is "the core" of the map. The central ring that spawns the one central neutral bomb. This is a continuation of the idea from Middle Ground except that it allows for more "creative game play" (again, Pillars' words) around the bomb. The rest of the map was just kind of thrown together after I sat in front of Photoshop for two days with map making's equivalent of writer's block. I just decided to continue the circles outward just to get something created. The map could probably be improved if everything outside "the core" area of the map were changed to something else. I also have received mixed reviews on the 4 turrets that are in the central core. I put them in there because I felt like it could create an initial advantage for one team. The idea being that if one team were to successfully destroy the opposing teams turrets while defending their own, they would have an advantage at controlling the bomb spawning area. However, the people opposed to the turrets often refer to turret destruction as "tedious." I could go either way on the turrets depending on what people liked.
Looks like the map either needs to be reduced in width or the base needs to be lowered. I will try experimenting with these two ideas and see what I come up with to make the map better. Download link: http://www.mediafire.com/file/xlajm4...d_thecore.altx Last edited by nesnl; 01-30-2009 at 01:21 AM.
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#7
01-30-2009, 12:32 AM
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Woods
The sixth map I made was Woods. It's a simple concept and returns to the same principles of the original TBD maps. Two bases on either side of the map with two bombs spawning over each base. The only difference is the varying obstacles and terrain. However, I did attempt to make the center of the map more open instead of a central dividing barrier. I also placed half of the power-ups on the map along the center line of the map. This in an attempt to create more territory battle instead of the classic bomb running/base defending models of play.
Okay, I spent some more time playing around with the map and managed to get a map that I think should play all right. I tuned up the graphics a bit by making the collidable graphics stand out more with outlines. I also added a couple more things that weren't there in the original map such as some bushes and also shading and lighting to the ground as well as some other objects. Download link: http://www.mediafire.com/file/muztgq...tbd_woods.altx Last edited by nesnl; 02-02-2009 at 12:21 AM.
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#8
02-08-2009, 05:21 PM
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Maimer,
It would be really helpful if you edited your top post to have links to the best versions of your maps. Also tbd_grotto runs really slow on integrated graphics because of all the background layers. Try changing it to be like tbd_cave or ffa_cave where there is only 1 background layer.
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#10
02-08-2009, 07:43 PM
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Also, the map grotto is not my map. It is Pillars' map and I don't think he ever had any intention of it being hosted. He made it one day just to see how different ideas would work out and I honestly don't really know how it ended up on your server as that was the first version of the map he made while he was exploring differnt ideas. I can speak with him or get him to make a post on the forums and let you know what he wants to do about the map.
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#11
03-02-2009, 03:15 AM
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UPDATE:
I changed two of the current maps so hopefully you can update them on the server. Middleground - Changed the smoke color to grey to deal with the dark background. Removed two of the power-up spawn points. The Core - Removed the 4 inner turrets. I got tired of dealing with the Altitude geezers always complaining about it. I think I am going to make a map of a giant penis and call it tbd_snowsickle. I think it will be comparable in genius to the Sean Connery map. The LINKS on the TOP of the page have been UPDATED with the NEW versions! Here they are if you are too lazy to scroll up: http://wiki.altitudegame.com/wiki/im...dleground.altx http://wiki.altitudegame.com/wiki/im.../Tbd_core.altx Last edited by nesnl; 10-28-2009 at 04:38 AM.
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#13
03-02-2009, 03:39 AM
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#18
03-03-2009, 12:29 AM
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Take it from Skywalker and Tmm3k; it was only a minor inconvenience, so evidently I was wrong and it should actually be part of the map. Problems should be overlooked as long as we can let the "noob level 1-15 bombers" take care of them in under 2 minutes.
Seriously, when the only argument you can make for something is that "it wasn't THAT bad", you know there's a problem. Feel free to bring up reasons why you found it fun though, it might offer something substantial to this whole debate. I'm willing to admit other people find different things fun, but so far nobody has offered any reasoning for liking the turrets in the middle. And if you want a legitimate response to that, you can't focus on "other things" seeing as everyone is mindlessly suiciding in the middle and no meaningful dogfights happen until the turrets are gone. Last edited by Snowsickle; 03-03-2009 at 12:32 AM.
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#19
03-03-2009, 12:33 AM
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#21
03-03-2009, 12:43 AM
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But seriously, removing the center turrets makes The Core perfect. Also, remove a ton of turrets from Blockworld to make it more playable for the love of god.
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#22
03-03-2009, 02:37 AM
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Also, the point of the turrets in the center of The Core was not to be annoying. It was my attempt at giving them meaningful parts of map control instead of just ways to prevent teams from base camping. I will agree that for the most part, the way the turrets work now it is hard to get them incorporated into game play without feeling like you are 'overwhelming' people with computer/player interactions. However, I have seen games where one team has successfully controlled the middle area by working as a team to destroy the opposing turrets by using loopy EMP followed by team damage. Until the other team was able to destroy the other turrets, the other team definitely had control of the bombs that spawned. So to respond to snowsickle, ferret, or whoever, that was the point. To expand and try to create different ways the game is played. That is why I think there should be different things that a map maker can put into maps to affect the player's interaction with the map and not only just the other team. This might be different forms of turrets or the other idea I said where you could place "permanent walls" (ie the same as wall power-ups) so one team could cross a certain area but the other could not. I think at this point the game is fairly complete in that we have a good idea of what the planes do, what the perks are going to be, and how the plane/plane interactions work. I think, depending on lamster's take on it all, that we should brainstorm different things we could put into maps to affect game play. Think of it like when you are playing someone in a car racing game, do you get upset when you hit an oil slick on the road and your car goes out of control? No, because it's a good balance between the thrill of battling someone else but also having to deal with computer controlled aspects of the environment. So maybe it's time for a new thread for different kinds of ideas that people could put into maps? Again, I defer to lamster. But here are some ideas I would like to see: Ability to place permanent wall power-ups. This could also be combined with some type of gate/key method. Like certain areas are blocked off to a team and to open them they have to destroy something on the map. Also, this could work well with a timing system. Like having a button that if you shoot it the wall goes down for some length of time before going back up (something like 15-30 seconds) Ability to make sprites move at a user defined rate. Whether the objects just move continually in one direction and then start over again on the other side of the map or making an object rotate at any number of speeds. Think of in the core if all the different ring systems could rotate counter to each other at a really slow rate. I also like the idea of different things on the map being able to affect how the plane flies. Maybe it's an "air jet" in a wall that goes off like every 15 seconds so if you fly by at the wrong time you plane gets blown by the air. This could also be cool with something like "flame jets." Fly by at the wrong time and get blasted by a jet of flame and take damage. Also, something more advanced could be giving incentives for map control. Again, I will defer to "the core" but think if having more people in a certain area of the map, like the center of the core, allowed for more benefit. Maybe a certain percentage stat increase to your team. Or maybe the bomb only spawns for the team that can eliminate all the other team's planes from the center area. There is a lot of possibilities for creating incentives for not only working as a team but preventing the base camping mentality. I think also try to stress in my maps that being in the center of the map is always better than being back at your base. Anyway, I think I will leave it at that. If anyone else has any cool ideas for possible map integrated things that would positively affect the way the game is played, I have no problem with you posting them here... or we could start a new thread. Oh yah, I am planning on scaling down the map "woods" and also I am going to redo the graphics so they are less blurry. However, I don't want to do this unless the map will be fun to play. So if there is anything else you think needs changing besides the graphics and the size of the playable area, please post them here.
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#23
03-03-2009, 05:39 AM
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I pretty much agree with you Maimer -- the plane/plane interactions are fairly well developed at this point and some of the most interesting development from here on out will focus on map design and additional map/gametype functionality to support that. I would love to see a brainstorming thread along the lines of what you've started here (ideas for additional map features) -- if you'd like to start one I will watch it closely. For the next few weeks we'll be busy with various odds and ends, but I will definitely be implementing more map features in the future.
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#26
04-06-2009, 02:53 AM
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NEW MAP: TBD_MAYHEM
THIS MAP WAS MADE BY A TEAM EFFORT OF MYSELF AND MY COUSIN WHO GOES BY THE NAME OF REDSHIFT. So first I wanna say I can't take all the credit for this map. Although the layout design was mine, a lot of the art, if not most of it was done by my cousin who plays under the name Redshift. We both put a fair amount of time into the small details of this map in the hopes of really putting something nice out there. (Lamster this is the same guy who wants to write the game's theme music *hint*hint*wink*wink* so write him an email or start that thread or something!) I really wanted to make a map with almost no open space and a lot of small tunnels and passageways. This is the design that came out of that thought. It has three bomb spawns that are all neutral bombs. However, there is a catch, as these spawn points also spawn health packs half of the time. The goal being that a team can't just camp one spot like in middleground or thecore, they must react to different bombs spawning at different locations. Now before you get on my case and say "Three bombs, that's too many on the map at once!" let me show you the math. On middleground or thecore the bomb spawns every 25 seconds. So that means you get 2 bombs every 50 seconds. On this new map three bombs will spawn once every 50 seconds. So that means that on this new map you have 1.5 more bombs per unit time than on the previous maps. And if it ends up being a problem, then I can just change it. Other features to this new map: Includes an underground tunnel, 4 power ups, and a small tunnel under the base that allows for full circling of the base just like in the map tbd_cave. I may make a "mega" version of the map that reduces all the spawn timers down to 10 seconds for those mega 34 player servers. However, I don't know who runs those servers or how to get the map to them. If anyone knows how to contact the GOON server admin, please let me know. DOWNLOAD LINK: http://www.mediafire.com/file/yzgegy...bd_mayhem.altx Last edited by nesnl; 04-06-2009 at 04:04 AM.
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#27
04-06-2009, 03:15 AM
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im excited to see this play, though i'm scared that the explodet will be over used in this map. this would be a great amp to start the limiting of planes. but i can't wait to play
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#28
04-06-2009, 03:54 AM
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Responses to tbd_mayhem
1. Exactly how big are the tunnels? My #1 concern is that this makes lazer miranda even stronger with its reverse, as opposed to other planes that are forced to go all the way through. 2. Agree with spirtz that we'll probably be seeing a lot more director explodets. Not that it's necessarily a bad thing. 3. I'm interested to see how the lower bomb spawn will be utilized, since it's considerably harder to carry the bomb upwards. However, from the picture it APPEARS as if you could bomb the base from below with a lob? That would definitely add an interesting dynamic. Obviously it hasn't been played yet so I could just be spewing out of my ass. That would be a bad thing.
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#29
04-06-2009, 04:08 AM
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2. We will see 3. What you said is ambiguous enough that I don't want you to say any more. Just let the people who can't figure out what your post means to figure it out on their own (that was intended in the map design btw).
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#30
04-06-2009, 04:24 AM
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You actually fight a bomber/explodet in the open air past the hill and they're ****ed. They either win the head on (or get a juggle in) or they run to turrets/behind allies and hope someone else kills you. There's no easier a place to kill a fatty than in the wide open :| The less "choke points" the better off explodets/bombers are. (EDIT) should probably add, I didn't include smart bomb bombers in here. They'd obviously fair better in an open environment. But not grens.
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#31
04-06-2009, 05:01 PM
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it was good i like it. i only got to play with a few people. hopefully it will be better with more becuase it was to easy with only 4 of us.
p.s. beautiful but the colors make it a little harder to fly and distinguish walls at first..
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#32
04-06-2009, 09:53 PM
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i played it earlier and seems that 14 people may be to many even for this map and the lazer was extremely hard to dodge. even with 7 of us it was hard to stay alive long.
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#33
04-09-2009, 09:35 PM
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Played this a bit earlier, some thoughts:
- Gorgeous! - The pillar things holding up your base need some kind of outline/rim. Right now it almost looks like they're not collidable. - Tunnels are just a TEENSY bit too narrow imo. It's a tough call because the tight tunnels are really the heart and soul of the map, but I think it could benefit from a little widening. - Too many bombs.  I don't think it's actually much the frequency of spawning (altho 50% more often is quite a bit), but that there are times when you have 2-3 get picked up at the same time. It also makes it so there's not really any part of the map that you want to try to control... instead it's just like you float around killing guys until you can either get a bomb or spot a bomb icon to defend against. - Explodet is really fun on this map.  - I really like that fact that the map is based on straight lines, which means you can do these really long distance straight shots with biplane / explodet and have a much higher than normal chance of hitting someone. Something about that is fun to me. - I'd suggest slightly fading the background so the map doesn't look quite so busy. - Wtf is the purpose of the holes in the pillars supporting the bases? It's a nice looking part of the map, but I can't see any reason why you'd fly there. - Pacman tunnel is a death trap (long and narrow, impossible to dodge shots) and so low that even if you make it out there's no way you're getting up to their base with a bomb. - This isn't about the map exactly, but you might want to do a few iterations with no gfx just to get the gameplay down before prettying it up too much. It's going to be a huge headache for you if you want to change it now.
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#34
04-09-2009, 10:53 PM
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In response to above:
The pillars holding up the base has a traversable area just because I thought it would be fun if you could fly up underneath and bomb from below. When you say the pillars holding up the base need an outline are you referring to the part of the pillars that are in fact collidable? If so that can be easily outlined if it's a problem. I knew the tunnels would be kind of narrow, but we did some testing and it *is* possible for all the planes to turn around in them (at least the diagonal ones, don't think all the planes can turn around in the top and bottom ones). The idea in my head when making the map was kind of an on going joke of "make a map that the map itself kills the noobs so I don't have to." It's just a joke but I liked the idea of making people somewhat commit to certain paths they take but also giving them lots of options of different paths all the time. The bombs on this map probably will change. When I originally started with the idea of three rotating bombs I had two ideas in mind. First, to make it so that you couldn't just control one area of the map. I know that you said "there's not really any part of the map that you want to control" but that kind of was the point. Move and react as a team to the new bomb spots instead of having a mine field at one spot like middleground or thecore. Not saying that control is bad, but just wanted to mix it up. I may change it to two bombs and have one of the spots (probably the middle) spawn a powerup instead. However, another idea I had was to change the frequency of all the bomb spawns. I noticed like you did that the bombs often times all spawn at once. I was thinking of maybe changing it so that the top bomb spawned the slowest, and the bottom bomb the fastest, with the middle bomb as an average. This would do two things: move the average bombs/minute back to the same average as middleground and thecore and also it would make it so the most difficult bomb to bring to the base (the bottom one) was the one spawning the most. This would also make it so that control of the top bomb when it spawned was more important. It would also make it so the likelihood of all the bombs spawning at once would be reduced. As for maps based on straight lines that is basically what my maps end up being. First and foremost I am not a great free hand artist. My cousin, Redshift, did most of the art on this level. Using geometry to create a level is easy for me to do as seen in the core and now this level. I am glad you like the long straight passageways as that was my goal. To make it complex, but also make long straight paths from top to bottom for easy crossing of the map. As for the pacman tunnel, I know it's a death trap. I really didn't care if it was there or not and it wasn't really in the design for any reason except as an option for players if they wanted it. Kind of like if you are on the other side of the map and want a path to get back to your base then there is a way. I think that it doesn't really take anything away from the map with it being there. If you think otherwise, let me know. So, again, you can thank my cousin, Redshift, for the art. He really came through on that one. Here are some changes that I may make to the map after I have played it a fair amount of times: * Change the power-ups to spawn only shield and wall. I think that missile has shown to be useless and there is enough health spawning in the center. * Change the bomb frequency and/or change one of the bomb spawns to a power-up spawn. * Extend the small object in front of the base (the one with the turret on it) about 1 inch higher. * Extend the diagonal objects at the top of the map that are above the base about 1 inch farther down (to make bombing from that top path a little harder as you won't be able to double back as soon). Also, as a note to your comment that I should make a few iterations with no graphics and tweak the map. I would like to be able to do this but it's tough for a few reasons. People don't like playing maps that are just black and white. On top of that it's hard enough to get a game going that you feel is a "good" game that actually assesses a map's strengths and weaknesses. I played a bunch of games on mayhem that were just filled with new players. New players are good for the game but not necessarily good to assess a map. It wasn't until I got some of the veterans in there did I get a real feel for how the map would play out. Also, it's hard to get maps up to test. If I had my own server it would be easier but as it is I have to send an updated map to lam who then has to upload it onto the server. He is busy enough as it is figuring out how to extend the release date of the game. In the end I think that I have a fairly good feel for how the game plays and how different map dynamics will work or not work. I don't think there are any glaring problems with mayhem and if it does need tweaking I have all the PSD files from start to finish that I can go back and make quick changes with minimal effort to graphics. Thanks for all the feedback! It helps me a lot when people write stuff like this.
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#35
04-09-2009, 11:43 PM
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****, big post. I think all I have to say is:
- Yeah, the collidable part of the pillars. - Well yes, you can turn with all the planes, but I think it can still be too tight for the best gameplay experience even though it's PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE to fly through the tunnels. :P - The main reason I'd seal off the tunnel is so it doesn't tempt noobs to go down it. It's basically a feature that only serves to increase the learning curve for new players without adding anything for anyone else. I mean, not like this is a big deal at ALL, but meh... why not? - If you change one of the bomb spots to a power-up location, I'd consider doing something graphically to set the bomb spawn points apart. Just like adjusting the background texture on the powerup one or something should be enough. I dunno, I don't normally comment on this stuff, but you guys put so much into the visual polish that I figure why not make it as playable as possible? - Here's a crazy idea: cut a hole cirectly between the columns under each base that connects with the pacman tunnel. Might make it useful as a way to exit your base at least, while also giving the holes in the pillars a point? I dunno. It probably still wouldn't be a viable bombing route though unless you made some additional changes.
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#36
04-19-2009, 08:07 PM
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Per your request, here's a suggested layout change. Here's what's different:
- that top thing is extended down a bit (probably not enough) to prevent huge arcing lobs - removed the two top hourglasses to give dogfighter type planes a place to play - opened up the center a bit for the same reason. - added holes beneath the bases... pacman tunnel probably will still be a deathtrap, but figured it's worth a try for ****s and giggles. There are probably better ways to accomplish this, but meh. I think this would be an improvement on the current map, which really seems very pro-miranda/explodet and very anti-everything else. I'd really love to see this map get better, since it's by far the best looking of the unofficial maps, but doesn't play that well compared to the other ones you've made imo.
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#37
04-20-2009, 04:58 PM
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Thanks for the feedback. I will probably end up changing a few things about this map so it's good to have some other ideas floating around out there (which by the way no one has posted any ideas on my map making challenge thread for all those that still might be interested).
Here are my comments/questions about your ideas: Extending the objects at the top near the base is something I thought about before to prevent the huge lobs and in the end I may do this. Adding the hole in the pacman tunnel would make them more accessible but at the same time it would make bombing of the base a lot easier for the other team. Part of the design of map with a traversable is making sure that when a team crosses the boundary with a bomb that there is a big enough obstacle/enough time for the other team to react (just like in middleground). With the addition of the hole here it basically gives unobstructed access to the base for the other team. However, I was talking with my cousin (the other map designer) and we were thinking about putting a turret in directly underneath the base (shooting downward). I think that might make this little hole work. As for taking out one of the set of tanks, I probably would be more inclined to take out of the tanks from the bottom rather than the top. This is because a top bomb, and therefore easier,bomb route should be more difficult to traverse than a lower bomb route. If I took out the top tanks there would almost seem to be no reason to go toward the lower part of the map. As for opening up the center, I don't see myself doing this for two reasons. One is that I wanted to get away from the whole camping of the bomb area like in middleground and thecore. Second, if you take another look at the image you made, it basically IS thecore. It is a large area (in this case square not a circle) with 8 entry paths. As much as I like thecore, I think that having different maps with different themes is good, even if they don't play as well for some players than other maps. Anyway, I hope you don't think that my response is too critical or defensive as that was not my intent. I appreciate your feedback along with anyone else who wants to give me feedback. I will definitely return to this map and mess around with it a bit once this semester is over.
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#38
04-20-2009, 08:18 PM
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Just to clarify, I was actually thinking that the bomb would spawn in the top and bottom spots, not in the center, which (along with all the other random differences) would make it play in a pretty un-Corelike fashion.
And nope, of course I don't feel offended. As nice as it would be, I've learned to accept that no one is smart enough to agree with me 100% of the time.
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#39
04-21-2009, 04:53 AM
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It'd be nice if some of Maimer's earlier maps had the same level of artistic polish, but that type of thing isn't easy to plan. He's gotten better using the art tools at his disposal, and it was only this last map that he collaborated with Redshift who did a lot of [most?] of the finer texture work. Maybe Maimer or Redshift would be willing to go back and re-texture some of the older maps? Up to them, obviously. If they want help I'm really good at making stick figures in MSPaint.
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and honestly, why can't you just let the noob level 1-15 bombers take care of it while you focus on other things?
Linear Mode
