Maimer's Maps - Page 3

nobodyhome · #81 05-25-2009, 12:17 AM

about ffa_core:

although i had been imagining an ffa version of the core to be one-cored only, i think having two cores is nice for more open space (although conceptually, it's weird because it's THE core but there's two? and they kinda remind me of eyes. or boobs.)

the one thing i'd like to mention is about the spawning locations in the center of the map. i don't know if it's just me, but i don't like spawning without my back to the wall, it just feels weird because sometimes a plane would be right behind me when i'm spawning and i'm at a disadvantage right from the start (the invincibility frames don't help too much, they just trail me until they wear off). so i would suggest moving the middle spawns up or down so that you have your back protected from the beginning.

nesnl · #82 05-25-2009, 12:46 AM

Also, Karl, I tried optimizing the background images of the maps but I wasn't able to really reduce the file size very much. Maybe you know a trick that I don't, but when I first exporting Mayhem (this new version) it was 7MB, after optimizing it is 6.5MB. I guess you can try to reduce it further if you think you can do it. Additionally, I could only get ffa_thecore down to 5.4 from 5.5MB, so there is probably something I am missing.

nobodyhome, thanks for the feedback. First, we will see if anyone actually wants to play it or not and then I will probably tweak it so everything is just right.

Vi* · #83 05-25-2009, 01:30 AM

I like that you gave the dual-core map rotational rather than mirror symmetry. Can't wait to try!

nesnl · #84 05-25-2009, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vi*

I like that you gave the dual-core map rotational rather than mirror symmetry. Can't wait to try!

I would say it has more mirror symmetry than rotational, but I can see what you are saying about that middle area. It kind of just happened because i had no idea of what to do when I made it.

Vi* · #85 05-25-2009, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nesnl

I would say it has more mirror symmetry than rotational...

Not at all. I thought you did it on purpose, what with how the nuke symbols are opposite. But apparently you just intuitively knew that giving it perfect rotational symmetry would be better artistically than the boring overdone mirror symmetry found in many maps.

nesnl · #86 05-25-2009, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vi*

Not at all. I thought you did it on purpose, what with how the nuke symbols are opposite. But apparently you just intuitively knew that giving it perfect rotational symmetry would be better artistically than the boring overdone mirror symmetry found in many maps.

The nuke symbols being opposite wasn't really done on purpose really but rather just a function of trying to keep the size of the map small in terms of download size. I thought you were talking more about the collidable objects, which is basically a mirror from one side to the next. The only difference is in the middle in which one side retained its lower piece and the other side retained its upper piece (the pieces outside the core). The result made it so that when i used the background twice, but by flipping it horizontally and vertically, it made the nuke symbol upside down. The upside to it is that the map file size is smaller because it only needs to have 'half' the background in its file resources.

But glad you like the way it looks. Hopefully we can get some play time on it soon. I am also working on a new FFA as well. Look for that one in a couple days.

nesnl · #87 05-26-2009, 01:38 AM

They said it couldn't be done. (Actually I don't think anyone has said that but I use it to build anticipation) So here it is, FFA Mayhem! No real reason for any of the object placement. I just thought this layout looked like a fun map. I hope you have fun with it! Updated the picture and download link to current version.

DOWNLOAD LINK:

http://wiki.altitudegame.com/wiki/im...fa_mayhem.altx

Triped · #88 05-26-2009, 03:44 AM

Which servers have these maps? I never see any of them, even when I /vote changemap.

nesnl · #89 05-26-2009, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triped

Which servers have these maps? I never see any of them, even when I /vote changemap.

Currently none of them do as far as I can tell. I think tbd_woods got updated on the Chicago Community Maps server. The new version of Mayhem, the new ffa_thecore and ffa_mayhem have yet to be put onto a server. I know that Karl/Lamster are very busy with coding/bugs/game related stuff so just give them some time and I am sure they will be on a server soon.

Now to move onto making the next map!

Karl and/or Lamster, what is your plan in terms of keeping the size of the game download small but at the same time offer a wide selection of maps that come with the game?

lamster · #90 05-26-2009, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nesnl

what is your plan in terms of keeping the size of the game download small but at the same time offer a wide selection of maps that come with the game?

This is actually the main reason I don't just throw all the high quality maps up as official downloads right away -- players want a quick download and bandwidth costs are a major expense for us, so we need to work on map compression before we can add too many more maps (and we -will- be adding more official maps).

No specifics yet, all I can say is it's very high on my TODO list and I should be looking into it sometime late next week. We'll probably implement some lossy image compression and perhaps resource sharing (so that the different versions of core can reuse one image set, etc). I'll let you know more once I've had a chance to do some tests on size/quality tradeoffs. In the meantime, don't let it stop you from cranking out more great maps

Karl · #91 05-26-2009, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nesnl

This is the second map for today: ffa_thecore. (If you missed the update to Mayhem, then look at the post above this one) As per Cokane's request, I attempted to make an FFA map. I really don't play FFA that much and I don't really know what makes it good or bad. So if this map sucks, blame Cokane.

DOWNLOAD LINK:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/dwyhnc...a_thecore.altx

looks cool. everyone will cry about the low spawn points though. ill download this later (tomorrow maybe) and throw it up on community map servers.

nesnl · #92 05-26-2009, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lamster

No specifics yet, all I can say is it's very high on my TODO list and I should be looking into it sometime late next week. We'll probably implement some lossy image compression and perhaps resource sharing (so that the different versions of core can reuse one image set, etc). I'll let you know more once I've had a chance to do some tests on size/quality tradeoffs. In the meantime, don't let it stop you from cranking out more great maps

Well if you can implement a system where you can share resources from different maps it would obviously help you with the maps you already have because lostcity, cave, hills all use the same resources for the tbd and ffa.

As far as my maps go, the ffa mayhem uses almost all the same images as the tbd mayhem. There are a few objects that are different, but for the most part, it's the same stuff. I think the big part is the background. Originally the background was different because I had merged some other stuff with the background layer (glow from the tanks etc). But when Karl mentioned that he was going to "palettize" (or something like that), I went back and separated out those parts so that the background was all in a certain color range. As a result, the background for ffa mayhem is the same as tbd mayhem.

As for thecore, the background is different because I had to merged the glowing pipes layer with the background due to layer effects (color dodging, screen effects, etc). However, if sharing resources was something that you implemented then I could go back and figure out a way to separate those parts out I think and therefore the ffa and tbd would have the same background. I am still not 100% pleased with the background in thecore anyway and depending on how you feel about it, I might try to come up with something better for it. But as for the rest of the level, some of the resources are the same, but some is different. The outer scaffolding is different but the floating core pieces are all the same. I did realize when making ffa_thecore that I didn't really optimize tbd_thecore in terms of using repeatable images. So I will definitely go back and change all that to see if it makes a big difference in map size.

Just let me know if there is anything else I can do from my end. I can definitely sympathize with where you are coming from after reading those posts where you talk about how each plane color adds another 10MB or whatever, so download size is obviously a big concern.

And Karl, for the map ffa_mayhem and/or ffa_core, you are welcome to change the spawn points if you want. I am not really well versed in ffa, so if you think that something else will work, then feel free to modify it.

lamster · #93 05-26-2009, 09:03 AM

Don't worry too much about optimization yet -- we'll let you know the operating constraints once we've investigated our options a bit.

michael · #94 05-29-2009, 05:20 AM

One idea i had, was make it so there can be more 2 (or more) versions of the same map.

So the game comes with the "standard definition maps" by default. This keeps the file sizes down, etc. Then if someone wanted they could get the high resolution sparkly versions. And the server and client would understand that its the same map, just load different resources for the images. Not sure what the logistics would be on that though.

protest boy · #95 05-30-2009, 06:23 PM

ffa_mayhem: The middle passage way through the edge of the map when travelling from left to right sends you into a wall. That needs to be changed. Just moving the object farther from the edge of the map would fix it.

nesnl · #96 05-31-2009, 06:33 AM

Okay, so I played ffa_thecore for the first time tonight and I realized that I had messed up the background when I exported the map. Here is a link to the updated map, please update your servers accordingly.

DOWNLOAD LINK:

http://wiki.altitudegame.com/wiki/im.../Ffa_core.altx

Also, I updated ffa_mayhem as per protest boy's request. I changed the left side of the map so that the object is no longer directly in the way when you are traveling from the left side of the map. Please use the updated version of the map on your servers.

DOWNLOAD LINK:

http://wiki.altitudegame.com/wiki/im...fa_mayhem.altx

michael · #97 05-31-2009, 07:30 AM

Hmm, is there an easy way to do versioning on the maps? I imagine as more maps are made and the community grows we will need some way to say "this is ffa_mayhem v1.03" or something. And someway to know on the server which one is in use, and whether it needs to be updated. I imagine filenames would be a bad method, as no one would like typing in "ffa_mayhem103". I guess tab completion would help. I don't really understand how the altx file format works. Are they just xml? (ewww, i just did a "head tbd_cave.altx" and it looks very binary, nvm)

I haven't seriously tried to make a level yet, i just messed around with the editor for a few minutes, but my map-website / experimental-server is starting to come together. (not quite functioning yet though)

nobodyhome · #98 06-01-2009, 12:24 AM

for ffa_mayhem, i find myself constantly running into the bottom left corner of the bottom left triangular block because i'm coming from the right side of the map and can't see the impending obstacle as i warp from the right side to the left. perhaps place the block a little farther from the edge of the map so you have some ample warning to avoid it?

Shyney · #99 06-01-2009, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nobodyhome

for ffa_mayhem, i find myself constantly running into the bottom left corner of the bottom left triangular block because i'm coming from the right side of the map and can't see the impending obstacle as i warp from the right side to the left. perhaps place the block a little farther from the edge of the map so you have some ample warning to avoid it?

Lol yeah! i hit that every time! wrap around into a wall

nesnl · #**100** 06-04-2009, 04:33 AM

So any chance you can put tbd_woods and tbd_mayhem on the official servers? Having those two maps shouldn't be that bad (as compared to including the ffa versions as well.)

Also, can you update the ffa_thecore and ffa_mayhem to their newest versions on the Chicago Community? I always update the first post in the thread with links to the most recent versions of the maps.

lamster · #**101** 06-04-2009, 04:39 AM

Will update maps soon. I'm hesitant to add too many more official maps until we get better image compression in, but updates will go in for sure.

NomNom · #**102** 06-04-2009, 06:29 AM

You can setup a download link on the official site with all the used maps and announce it in the in-game news so people will know about it and can download faster.

DiogenesDog · #**103** 06-04-2009, 11:58 AM

No offense to Maimer, but even new Woods is pretty ugly compared to the rest of the official maps. :/

I mean god knows it's 100x better than I could do, but still.

gameguard · #**104** 06-04-2009, 12:20 PM

woods was my favorite map when it was hosted. Please bring it back!
And the new touch up on the graphics look really nice. Keep up the good work maimer ^^

Mayhem, I cant really say. The new mayhem was pretty uninteresting when I played it. At least the old one was unique, even though it didnt play too well. I do like grotto and wish it was back.

DiogenesDog · #**105** 06-04-2009, 03:46 PM

oh, I don't dislike the map. I just think the official maps should all have a certain visual quality minimum.

that said, I don't think anyone even pays attention to or realizes there's such a thing as an "official" map when they're playing, so it's kind of a silly point of me to make.

nesnl · #**106** 06-04-2009, 07:42 PM

I realize that when you read my post Dio, that you probably thought I was being very presumptuous by asking to put them on the official servers but the idea of making woods/mayhem official was already talked about before. (As you may have inferred from other posts they are still figuring out how to keep the game's download size small).

That being said, they are more than welcome to reject any of my maps for any reason, including on a graphical basis. I personally think that the new Woods fits the theme of the original maps (ie lost city, cave) than does thecore or mayhem. I guess my question is what is it about the new woods that you think is poorly done? I simplified the graphics and made them more cartoony, which I think is what the feeling of lost city and cave are. I am interested to hear what parts you think could change as I can still modify different parts of it.

nesnl · #**107** 06-04-2009, 09:06 PM

There was a concept brought up in a game today that might make the download and delivery of more maps possible without making the initial game download huge. What if you set up a peer-to-peer system for downloading so that the maps you didn't include in the initial download but were still considered "official" would be available to download through other people that were currently online. So once you installed the game it would then download the rest of the maps based on who was online and therefore remove the burden from the initial download.

Snowsickle · #**108** 06-04-2009, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nesnl

There was a concept brought up in a game today that might make the download and delivery of more maps possible without making the initial game download huge. What if you set up a peer-to-peer system for downloading so that the maps you didn't include in the initial download but were still considered "official" would be available to download through other people that were currently online. So once you installed the game it would then download the rest of the maps based on who was online and therefore remove the burden from the initial download.

It's already impossible to find a game where there aren't 2-3 people sitting at 250 ping ruining everything by lobbing bombs through players and killing with ghost-spam. As much as I'd love to see a 30 ping bomber turn into a 600 ping bomber because some level 3 player needed the new version of mayhem from him, I'm going to have to say that I don't really agree with this idea. Even if I can opt out, high ping players often ruin the game for everyone present.

The only thing that might potentially work is downloading from people idling in the lobby, but nobody does that.

DiogenesDog · #**109** 06-04-2009, 09:47 PM

I don't think it's presumptuous at all. Your maps are badass. I just think Woods isn't as pretty as the maps Steve did the art for or Mayhem/Core.

as for why... I'm not sure if I could really pin that down, I'm no artist. the style isn't quite the right KIND of cartoony, but beyond that I think there's just a quality issue... there's not the same level of talent there imo. I'm super picky, though. like I've never even been satisfied with Cave, and that IS one of the maps that Steve did.

I dunno, it's no insult to say that you didn't make a map as nice looking as an extremely experienced professional game artist. :P

nesnl · #**110** 06-17-2009, 05:05 AM

Karl, just wanted to give you another little nudge because ffa_mayhem and ffa_thecore are still the older versions on the Chicago server (and I assume other ones). I have the updated links on the first post of the thread.

Karl · #**111** 06-17-2009, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nesnl

Karl, just wanted to give you another little nudge because ffa_mayhem and ffa_thecore are still the older versions on the Chicago server (and I assume other ones). I have the updated links on the first post of the thread.

oh damn, i didnt even know o_O. ill put em up tonight. hopefully we'll be shipping them w/ the game soon

nesnl · #**112** 06-21-2009, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karl

oh damn, i didnt even know o_O. ill put em up tonight. hopefully we'll be shipping them w/ the game soon

I hate to be that guy, but it's still the old versions. I have faith in you Karl.

Karl · #**113** 06-21-2009, 07:31 AM

oops i forgot, they are up now !

helicop · #**114** 06-28-2009, 07:47 PM

Hmm...

So just to be clear, you are literally taking some maps that wortk fine in CC3, trasferring them from your map folder in CC3 to the COI map folder and some of thes emaps now WONT work with COI?

DevilsAdvocat · #**115** 06-29-2009, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nesnl

The fourth map I made was Middle Ground 3, which again is just another iteration of Middle Ground. Not satisfied with 4 holes, the total number was increased to 5 holes. No word yet if more holes are possible as it may just be so many that it would literally blow your mind.

Download link:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/2ttewz...leground3.altx

although this is practically ancient history, i think that middleground3 should certainly replace the current middleground. Perhaps in a tourney, in which team work is expected, the current middleground is better. however, in regular pub games, the "teamwork" manifests itself as the entire team camping in their base whenever a bomb is picked up. this team then just has to simultainiously spam badly aimed projectiles at whichever of the 3 openings the bomb runner chooses, and hes a goner. Basically, with there only being over or through that building as options, the bomb runner cannot possibly get through without a million shots in his face. This problem of making it around this building is only intensified by the large opening that must then be traversed, meaning getting through a chokepoint will only leave you a sitting duck to be picked off with ease (although the third route does exist of going in from below, it is too far detached from the other two to increase a bomb runners mobility)

nesnl · #**116** 07-13-2009, 10:20 PM

NEW MAP: TBD_LOCOMOTION

So right around the time that mayhem and woods were being kicked around without a home I had a map I was working on. But I decided to not work on any maps until Lam/Karl had implemented their new image compression system as at the time they already had too many maps on their hands. But since now they have figured that all out I went back and finished the map.

I realize that the new objective game mode just came out and that this is just another TBD map, but that's what I was working on and I wanted to finish it.

The concept is simple: two rival teams were transporting their bases via train but were on the same tracks! Upon meeting on a bridge a battle ensued and the bridge was blown up! Fight your way across blue skies and through the remnants of the train bridge in order to secure victory for your team! Beware of falling rock and unstable train cars (note: no rocks actually fall nor do the train cars lack stability.)

Also, I debated on naming the map tbd_trainsandplains, but in the end decided against it.

DOWNLOAD LINK:

http://wiki.altitudegame.com/wiki/im...ocomotion.altx

tyr · #**117** 07-13-2009, 10:28 PM

It looks sooooooo sweeeeeeeeeeet.
I wanna try it now !

gameguard · #**118** 07-13-2009, 10:44 PM

AWESOME!!!!

so many chokes lol. I wana play this asap

edit:

hey maimer, it would be cool if you could fly inside some of those trains with both ends open (it should be opaque though).

Triped · #**119** 07-13-2009, 10:52 PM

That looks really nice, man...

DiogenesDog · #**120** 07-14-2009, 08:41 AM

yeah, map looks great. reminds me a bit of middleground, but one that makes the low path stronger, which I think could be really cool.

ps trainsandplanes is an awesome name, you should go with that instead