Patch: Jan 15th, skins, new maps, balance, ball improvements, bug fixes

[Kuja900]

The explodet rocket responsiveness feels off. I cant detonate it immediately their is a delay.

[mikesol]

One more point I saw. I don't play remote very much however it seems silly the way mines work. Let me give you an example:

Mat is flying in front of plane to defend base. Plane is afterburning and gets close. Mat lets bomb go and tries to detonate it. Plane flies through bomb and gets detonated forward towards the base without stalling and hits it easily.

That's very much a problem in my eyes. I realize remote needed a nerf - but as it is it seems like getting behind a remote is the best way to handle bombing if you have any speed.

Note: I realize that if you adjust your ability to judge mine output and blowing it up that it CAN work. However, I just don't like the "oh i can fly through a mine now." Sometimes I will purposely try to warp through a remote so that when they blow it up I'll get a boost.

Just something else to consider

[Harmonica]

I also like the changes.

I haven't tried Loopy or Miranda yet, but for Explodet, Bomber, and Biplane the new ball speed feels great. I was initially worried that increasing the ball's speed would lead to an increase of the sloppy "I have no idea how to handle the ball, so I'll just chuck it randomly" playing, but on first impression it seems like the opposite has happened: the faster ball speed rewards good handling/passing, while the additional bounciness and reduced drag punish sloppy handling/passing.

Kudos to the devs.

[Evan20000]

Very, very, very nice patch. My only concern is getting another 100 community points for the other randa skin. (Will guide writers be given points as suggested in the last patch thread?)

The Repair nerf on Miranda seems annoying and somewhat unnessicary, but I'll live.

[r87]

Originally Posted by Harmonica

I also like the changes.

I haven't tried Loopy or Miranda yet, but for Explodet, Bomber, and Biplane the new ball speed feels great. I was initially worried that increasing the ball's speed would lead to an increase of the sloppy "I have no idea how to handle the ball, so I'll just chuck it randomly" playing, but on first impression it seems like the opposite has happened: the faster ball speed rewards good handling/passing, while the additional bounciness and reduced drag punish sloppy handling/passing.

Kudos to the devs.

You will laugh at first. Then you will cry.

[Flight 666]

Worst of all were those damn skins.
We need things that will add something new to the game. let it be: constructive

[The Turretnator]

hey, trying to add Altitude to my facebook page, but i use a different email address for FB than i do for Altitude.. So i cant add it because it says it cant associate the two accounts.... am i missing something?

[Sarah Palin]

A+++. Sooooogood.

I was curious so I did the numbercrunching: here is how fast the planes USED to travel when carrying the ball:

Loopy: 8.97
Biplane: 8.38
Miranda: 8.06
Bomber: 7.83
Explodet: 7.76

Loopy's advantage is clear.

And now:

Biplane: 8.48
Bomber: 8.46
Loopy: 8.43
Explodet: 8.38
Miranda: 8.06

All the planes now run the ball at around the same speed (except Miranda b/c of its maneuverability). Loopy also went from being as good a passer as any plane to being the worst passer in the game. Finally, the increased speed and distance of passing somewhat obviates Loopy's role as a ball runner.

All this adds up to a massive Loopy nerf. I stopped playing Loopy after about 10 minutes and started learning other planes!

Bomber and Whale have been especially buffed, with good HP and great passing they are now key planes. Whale now has a lot more flexibility than just being goalie, and Bomber feels like the quarterback of the team.

Miranda feels like it will be the plane that picks up fumbles and scores them, and there are certainly a lot more fumbles now that the ball moves so fast.

In general the ball zips around so much that your team has a great incentive to have a zone defense and a "wide receiver" type offense. In other words, planes all over the map instead of everyone chasing the ball. This is exactly what everyone wanted when they critiqued ball mode.

Not many maps work well with ball right now but that's ok because ball is finally a mode worth designing maps.







The other changes:

1. Skins don't do it for me, thanks for giving a turn off option.

2. Remote nerf is more than warranted imo. Better to increase cooldown between mines than to increase cooldown from laying a mine to detonating it. I never minded being a victim of the "poopBOOM" strategy. However I recognize that you want to force whales to use it as a "remote" mine, I guess remote players will just have to adjust.

3. Lazor is now fearsome, good buff to an underappreciated perk.

4. Not sure about the nerf to the "Time Anchor Bomb Running Technique," it arguably takes a lot of skill and deserves to be good. (also for the record, my comment in game about MikeSol was a joke.)



I have been very critical of your last two "updates" (making the sounds and ui more scifi, still hoping we get an "old sounds" option), here you did everything right, great job.

[Deathblade]

Changes to BALL are terrible.

It was better before...please revert.

Also, please revert the Explodet acceleration change.

[karterfreak]

edit: repair drone nerf is kinda bad for reverse and TA planes, mikesol has a good explanation for this. Edited my post because I misread on the reverse part at first (checked it again to see if i was misreading after testing it again).

[Slevin]

Originally Posted by Vi*

Love love love love love patch.

Explodet does not feel nerfed to me. I love the faster rockets, and the mine cooldown is incredibly reasonable. It really only keeps you from boosting yourself around, and I love that it doesn't insta-splode on enemies who are behind me. At least in my play style, remote mine just got substantially buffed. And it really feels good to play now.

Oh come on Vi, the time delay between drop/detonate the mine is way too long imo (Remote Mine). Plus, we cant do mine hop anymore No offense.. But, SAVE THE WHALE!!!

[Deathblade]

Originally Posted by Kuja900

The explodet rocket responsiveness feels off. I cant detonate it immediately their is a delay.

I was blaming the acceleration...but I think it is a det timer change.

Whatever it is, it has really cramped my style.

[Snowsickle]

I feel that the reverse/TA nerf to repair drone is more than warranted. Mirandas got much more use out of repair drone than other planes do because they could simply reverse-idle in a corner until they were back to full HP. Combined with having the best escape abilities of any plane in the game, this essentially meant that you had to gib a miranda player to kill him or he was going to sit in a corner until he was at full life again. While this is still possible, you genuinely have to run away from the action, rather than reversing behind the most convenient piece of terrain.

Perhaps this will offer some incentive for miranda users to try another perk, as well. When's the last time you saw a miranda play without repair drone?

[eth]

Originally Posted by Deathblade

Changes to BALL are terrible.

It was better before...please revert.

Also, please revert the Explodet acceleration change.

These sorts of posts piss me off. Can we at least get some reasoning here, instead of just '+1 this'? Most people in this thread have the opinion that the ball change is very good, and they have posted their reasoning - you just say: "it sucks".

[Deathblade]

Originally Posted by eth

These sorts of posts piss me off. Can we at least get some reasoning here, instead of just '+1 this'? Most people in this thread have the opinion that the ball change is very good, and they have posted their reasoning - you just say: "it sucks".

I enjoyed the days when you could join a BALL game and see a few Loopy's and a Miranda or two.

[Sarah Palin]

Originally Posted by Snowsickle

Perhaps this will offer some incentive for miranda users to try another perk, as well. When's the last time you saw a miranda play without repair drone?

True, but when's the last time you saw a Loopy without Heavy Armor? It seems these perks dominate for these two planes because of the playing environment, not player choice.

[r87]

Originally Posted by Sarah Palin

All the planes now run the ball at around the same speed (except Miranda b/c of its maneuverability). Loopy also went from being as good a passer as any plane to being the worst passer in the game. Finally, the increased speed and distance of passing somewhat obviates Loopy's role as a ball runner.

All this adds up to a massive Loopy nerf. I stopped playing Loopy after about 10 minutes and started learning other planes!

Bomber and Whale have been especially buffed, with good HP and great passing they are now key planes. Whale now has a lot more flexibility than just being goalie, and Bomber feels like the quarterback of the team.

Agreeing with this. Bomber went from being a great support plane to a great everything plane.

Loopy went from a great passer and primary ball carrier to a meh passer and a terrible ball carrier. If a loopy tries to take the ball from their own side of the map, they will die before they even get close to scoring range. Loopy is pretty boring to run the ball with...any options you had to try to avoid insta-death due to weak armor have been negated by your inability to flee from attacks.

The only thing that seems to work is having 3-4 loopys in a line chain passing to one another, and obviously this is very vulnerable to failure.

The one good thing to come from this is that from short range scoring is ridiculously easy with ALL planes. Like, pathetically easy. Hard shots are now chip shots.

Oh, also...played with three very good randa players so far. Not one of them has stuck with randa for more than 10 minutes.

This is all regarding ball btw.

[Snowsickle]

Originally Posted by Sarah Palin

True, but when's the last time you saw a Loopy without Heavy Armor? It seems these perks dominate for these two planes because of the playing environment, not player choice.

I think it should be a goal to have several viable perks for all planes. You're pointing out that other planes have the same issue; I agree. However, I think this is a step in the right direction.

[Deathblade]

Originally Posted by Sarah Palin

Plane balance seems a lot more even in ball now than TBD (where % loopies goes steadily up as team size increases). Loopies and randas may just need to adjust to their new roles.

Plane balance was fine before.

Planes had roles...what this change did was essentially make every plane as good at Loopy and Miranda role...and made Loopy and Miranda terrible at it.

There's zero reason to play a Loopy or Miranda now. If you think there is, please name them.

[Sarah Palin]

The one good thing to come from this is that from short range scoring is ridiculously easy with ALL planes. Like, pathetically easy. Hard shots are now chip shots.

Completely agreed, many ball shots on repurposed TBD maps (like the infamous straight shot in Cave) were easy, now they're very very easy. Wait for new maps I guess.

[Kuja900]

Originally Posted by Deathblade

I was blaming the acceleration...but I think it is a det timer change.

Whatever it is, it has really cramped my style.

Mine as well, any word on if this was intentional?

[r87]

Quote feature isn't working but:

"Loopy and Miranda definitely feel a bit left out in the new ball but

1) they may just need to adjust to their new roles

2) Loopy and randa are imo the KEY planes in TBD, so I don't mind at all if they're a bit underpowered in ball. "

The game types should be mutually exclusive. You cannot justify a plane being crippled in ball simply because it is good in another game type.

[Sarah Palin]

ROFL I deleted that post, but apparently not before two people were able to quote two different edit versions of it this thread is moving too fast!

[mikesol]

Originally Posted by Snowsickle

I feel that the reverse/TA nerf to repair drone is more than warranted. Mirandas got much more use out of repair drone than other planes do because they could simply reverse-idle in a corner until they were back to full HP. Combined with having the best escape abilities of any plane in the game, this essentially meant that you had to gib a miranda player to kill him or he was going to sit in a corner until he was at full life again. While this is still possible, you genuinely have to run away from the action, rather than reversing behind the most convenient piece of terrain.

Perhaps this will offer some incentive for miranda users to try another perk, as well. When's the last time you saw a miranda play without repair drone?

I feel you're missing the difference.

First off, miranda is fairly slow - especially with the bomb (it can't even fly up to the top of the map from the bottom without taking a break).

Secondly, miranda has very little hp. The combination of this means the miranda HAS to flee and try and hide / dodge while it regains hp.

Third, time anchor does not have the ability to simply "run away." Trickster you can turn around and flee and then repair. Anchor you keep going in the same direction. The repair thing combined with the 35% increase in anchor time with bomb makes bombing ridiculously difficult if I take any hits. Now I'm willing to concede that I've never tried flexi wings or heavy armor significantly but I feel it totally ruins repair for the Miranda.

Edit: PS I'm talking about anchor. Trickster + repair is still completely viable.

[The Turretnator]

OkAY, so i synched my facebook account with my Altitude. Added the FB Alti app to my page, granted it full authorization, etc... yet my community points are still not showing up... what the heck?!?! Me wants Zeebwa Pwane!


SOLVED. had to reboot computer. im all zebra-y now

[eth]

So before there wasn't a problem with miranda selfpass; there wasn't a problem with ball games being 99% loopies(and 1 miranda to self-pass to the goal)? Plane balance was pretty obviously NOT fine before the patch.

You know, you don't HAVE to fly around with the ball - you can pick it up, pass it forward, and press F. Loopy still has 240 _tracking_ DPS, how is that NOT good? I mean I don't get your line of reasoning here - you see the numbers of Loopy for carrying the ball are the lowest in relation to the other planes(never mind the fact that loopy is fastest plane) and say "**** THIS". Did you even try playing loopy after the patch? Because I did, and it is still stupid good DPS, and it can still carry just fine as long as you don't try to afterburn across the map with the ball.

The only issue I see with loopy/miranda/biplane is that they in larger games become more or less obsolete, but that has more to do with heavy planes scaling a lot better with player size.

[Sarah Palin]

Originally Posted by eth

you see the numbers of Loopy for carrying the ball are the lowest in relation to the other planes(never mind the fact that loopy is fastest plane)

As I numbercrunched, what it all adds up to is that all planes carry the ball at nearly the same speed (except randa), with differences so small they're prolly unnoticeable. I assume this was a design goal of the patch because the numbers line up pretty nice.

[r87]

Originally Posted by eth

The only issue I see with loopy/miranda/biplane is that they in larger games become more or less obsolete, but that has more to do with heavy planes scaling a lot better with player size.

See: all public servers

[poofighter24]

Originally Posted by eth

So before there wasn't a problem with miranda selfpass; there wasn't a problem with ball games being 99% loopies(and 1 miranda to self-pass to the goal)? Plane balance was pretty obviously NOT fine before the patch.

You know, you don't HAVE to fly around with the ball - you can pick it up, pass it forward, and press F. Loopy still has 240 _tracking_ DPS, how is that NOT good? I mean I don't get your line of reasoning here - you see the numbers of Loopy for carrying the ball are the lowest in relation to the other planes(never mind the fact that loopy is fastest plane) and say "**** THIS". Did you even try playing loopy after the patch? Because I did, and it is still stupid good DPS, and it can still carry just fine as long as you don't try to afterburn across the map with the ball.

The only issue I see with loopy/miranda/biplane is that they in larger games become more or less obsolete, but that has more to do with heavy planes scaling a lot better with player size.

Have you ever, like, played competitive ball before? Are you really suggesting that cruising around whilst carrying the ball firing inane amounts of missiles and basically ratio whoring while being exceptionally slow holding the ball is good for the game?

In any case, I found the plane for me. I'm just going to ratio whore with recoilless biplane and ace instincts while completely ignoring loose balls. The bright side is that if a loopy happens to be carrying the ball towards my goal, I can reverse direction, afterburn and chase him down, and blow him up before he can score. That's how slow loopies are after the nerf.

[Deathblade]

Originally Posted by eth

So before there wasn't a problem with miranda selfpass; there wasn't a problem with ball games being 99% loopies(and 1 miranda to self-pass to the goal)? Plane balance was pretty obviously NOT fine before the patch.

You know, you don't HAVE to fly around with the ball - you can pick it up, pass it forward, and press F. Loopy still has 240 _tracking_ DPS, how is that NOT good? I mean I don't get your line of reasoning here - you see the numbers of Loopy for carrying the ball are the lowest in relation to the other planes(never mind the fact that loopy is fastest plane) and say "**** THIS". Did you even try playing loopy after the patch? Because I did, and it is still stupid good DPS, and it can still carry just fine as long as you don't try to afterburn across the map with the ball.

The only issue I see with loopy/miranda/biplane is that they in larger games become more or less obsolete, but that has more to do with heavy planes scaling a lot better with player size.

So let me get this right...

You are saying Loopy and Miranda were overpowered...while you claim their counters had no role.

GJ

[Deathblade]

Originally Posted by poofighter24

Have you ever, like, played competitive ball before? Are you really suggesting that cruising around whilst carrying the ball firing inane amounts of missiles and basically ratio whoring while being exceptionally slow holding the ball is good for the game?

I'm thinking he is basing his conclusion off of the Football map, where it basically screams "OMG USE LOOPY".

All of this DPS he is stating is lulzy in any actual map.

[CCN]

As someone who plays a lot of ball, and played it at 4/5 planes (bomber can DIAF).

It seems to me you listened to one person on ball. Either
A) People who don't play it
B) Someone who plays it as Loopy

Given this forum, if you listened from here its generally people who don't play ball or Maimer who plays loopy 110% of the time.

.7 seconds is ridiculously long. .3 or .4 if you wanted to go this route and still provide something but right now the paper plane isn't even fast. However I will give it a shot as you seem to have tried to put more emphasis on a striker.

My real grief is charged shot can't hit same plane twice. That is a huge part of the skill ceiling on that plane type, and our main way to do ANY damage to explos. Reduce the damage on a charged shot, reduce the power of F up, instead of all those noob friendly things that make the Miranda seem overpowered you take away the hard to do, situational, positional skill shot.
I think this was by far the wrong way to nerf the plane, peoples grief with it is at medium skill level people can do fairly well with it (compared to biplane), so reducing its ability at middle skill (FUP, reduce warp range after charged shot .7 seconds?) or damage some other way.

[CCN]

Originally Posted by mikesol

I feel you're missing the difference.

First off, miranda is fairly slow - especially with the bomb (it can't even fly up to the top of the map from the bottom without taking a break).

Secondly, miranda has very little hp. The combination of this means the miranda HAS to flee and try and hide / dodge while it regains hp.

Third, time anchor does not have the ability to simply "run away." Trickster you can turn around and flee and then repair. Anchor you keep going in the same direction. The repair thing combined with the 35% increase in anchor time with bomb makes bombing ridiculously difficult if I take any hits. Now I'm willing to concede that I've never tried flexi wings or heavy armor significantly but I feel it totally ruins repair for the Miranda.

Edit: PS I'm talking about anchor. Trickster + repair is still completely viable.

The problem is you practised and got good at a hard plane, and so its easier to nerf you then to practice a counter. Anchors give up a lot to bomb that well (killing ability, holding map area). This patch is not balanced.

[nobodyhome]

Originally Posted by poofighter24

Have you ever, like, played competitive ball before? Are you really suggesting that cruising around whilst carrying the ball firing inane amounts of missiles and basically ratio whoring while being exceptionally slow holding the ball is good for the game?

In any case, I found the plane for me. I'm just going to ratio whore with recoilless biplane and ace instincts while completely ignoring loose balls. The bright side is that if a loopy happens to be carrying the ball towards my goal, I can reverse direction, afterburn and chase him down, and blow him up before he can score. That's how slow loopies are after the nerf.

Yes, if a plane is chasing you as you are holding a ball, he SHOULD be able to easily kill you. This forces you to pass more often.

You know. Do that thing that we call uh, teamwork.

[r87]

Originally Posted by CCN

It seems to me you listened to one person on ball. Either
A) People who don't play it
B) Someone who plays it as Loopy

Given this forum, if you listened from ehre its generally people who don't play ball.

Agree. Loopy is now useful for defense (ace instincts is pretty lol now) or a scoop and shoot close to the goal.

Miranda is...well...lol.

[poofighter24]

Originally Posted by nobodyhome

Yes, if a plane is chasing you as you are holding a ball, he SHOULD be able to easily kill you. This forces you to pass more often.

You know. Do that thing that we call uh, teamwork.

Is this a serious post?

[nesnl]

I want to respond to two points in this thread:

The first is regarding loopy and miranda in ball. Some people are saying that it is now near "impossible to start on your end of the map and carry it to the other end to shoot." My question is should this even be a possibility? The new mode of ball promotes passing. I think that this will increase the overall skill of the game. I hate to relate this to real world stuff, but name any sport where you can carry the ball yourself from one end of the field to the other by yourself without passing and score. Soccer? Football? More passing = more skill. In my opinion I always thought the Ball Hog award was basically Ball mode's equivalent of Kamikaze. Loopy is still viable in ball, just not in the overpowered way. It is still the fastest plane when not holding the ball. This allows a player to get into the action faster and chase down balls the fastest. This is also true of miranda, it is fast and maneuverable allowing it to perform roles in ball that other planes cannot. I think that the whole attitude of "my plane's role WHILE HOLDING THE BALL has changed" needs to go, because holding the ball should be considered a bad thing and passing a good thing.

Second thing I want to address is the miranda repair drone. I think Snowsickle put it best in his explanation. People can argue that it makes bomb running more difficult, but the second most used bomb runner rarely even uses repair drone. A flexi wing biplane doesn't have the luxury of dodging enemies and then getting all its health back. And even if a player chooses to use repair drone on another plane, to achieve even close to the manueverability of the miranda it MUST use its afterburners. If I could just fly in circles at normal speed on a biplane with the bomb and effectively juke out an entire team then I would do it. The repair drone nerf is surely a nerf to TA but it effectively brings it closer to the level of other bomb runners. Just as Snowsickle said that all perks should be viable on a plane, all planes should be viable in some sense for different roles. I think that the game should be balanced so that to be a competitive team you don't to either get a really good TA user or settle for a flexi biplane. More planes should ideally be able to bomb and those planes that are bombing should have some type of balance across the board, not some blatant advantage to one plane or another.

-Maimer

[r87]

nesnl, what is your in-game name?

---------------------------------------

My name in game that I am most remembered by is: Maimer

Currently I am going by the name: Gankatron

[AtomikPi]

So after having some time to simmer, the only two major issues that I think are unwarranted are (1) the lay mine --> detonate cooldown nerf - the other three are fine I think and (2) the time anchor/reverse nerf - again, the other miranda nerfs are more than sufficient. Also, (3) I encountered the difficulties with missiles detonating incorrectly that Kuja described.

[mikesol]

Originally Posted by nesnl

Second thing I want to address is the miranda repair drone. I think Snowsickle put it best in his explanation. People can argue that it makes bomb running more difficult, but the second most used bomb runner rarely even uses repair drone. A flexi wing biplane doesn't have the luxury of dodging enemies and then getting all its health back. And even if a player chooses to use repair drone on another plane, to achieve even close to the manueverability of the miranda it MUST use its afterburners. If I could just fly in circles at normal speed on a biplane with the bomb and effectively juke out an entire team then I would do it. The repair drone nerf is surely a nerf to TA but it effectively brings it closer to the level of other bomb runners. Just as Snowsickle said that all perks should be viable on a plane, all planes should be viable in some sense for different roles. I think that the game should be balanced so that to be a competitive team you don't to either get a really good TA user or settle for a flexi biplane. More planes should ideally be able to bomb and those planes that are bombing should have some type of balance across the board, not some blatant advantage to one plane or another.

-Maimer

1) Why does it matter what the second most used bomb runner uses? Should it matter? No. Each plane is separate. I don't see why it matters that biplane uses flexi wings instead of repair. It seems silly to even try and associate it like that.

2) A flexi wing biplane can turn fast, has more hp, and can move quicker. The miranda takes a ton of skill to be able to dodge and zip around and I still run into walls constantly. All planes are not equal - nor should they be equal.

3) All perks being viable on every plane seems like wishful thinking. Honestly why would rubber hull be that good on certain planes? Why should I wield ace instincts as a bomb runner? There are certain perks that go with certain abilities. Why do most loopies use heavy armor? It's because that's the best perk for most play styles. This repair nerf seems like it was more designed to help the issue of 1v1 randa. However, that doesn't really effect that very much. The thing it does do, is very strongly effect the bombing abilities - which already has gotten a big nerf from the 35% slower anchor.