Patch: Jan 15th, skins, new maps, balance, ball improvements, bug fixes

[A Nipple]

bombers is still sweet, i like splodet now find it more stable actually and more agile very nice! ignore the skins complaints there a good gimmick to get the word of the game out well thought out!! great incentive!

only complaints, time anchor i thin shud be able to regen whilst anchoring however at a slower rate and other one remotes could explode quicker!

On the whole great job!

Love nip =]

[ryebone]

Originally Posted by nesnl

I hate to relate this to real world stuff, but name any sport where you can carry the ball yourself from one end of the field to the other by yourself without passing and score.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yba-exnn9pQ

I couldn't resist. If i get an infraction for failing to contribute, so be it.

[Varonth]

Originally Posted by nesnl

Second thing I want to address is the miranda repair drone. I think Snowsickle put it best in his explanation. People can argue that it makes bomb running more difficult, but the second most used bomb runner rarely even uses repair drone. A flexi wing biplane doesn't have the luxury of dodging enemies and then getting all its health back. And even if a player chooses to use repair drone on another plane, to achieve even close to the manueverability of the miranda it MUST use its afterburners. If I could just fly in circles at normal speed on a biplane with the bomb and effectively juke out an entire team then I would do it. The repair drone nerf is surely a nerf to TA but it effectively brings it closer to the level of other bomb runners. Just as Snowsickle said that all perks should be viable on a plane, all planes should be viable in some sense for different roles. I think that the game should be balanced so that to be a competitive team you don't to either get a really good TA user or settle for a flexi biplane. More planes should ideally be able to bomb and those planes that are bombing should have some type of balance across the board, not some blatant advantage to one plane or another.

-Maimer

Not everyone uses a randa as a bombrunner.
I find it pretty insane to nerf one perk, based on the abillity of another perk.

If heavy armor would give 100 health, but if you fly a loopy you just get 20 health, there would be too much whines to moderate for you.

Or, if you are using flexi wings on a biplane you get the normal bonus.
But if you also have reverse thrust, then flexi wings looses 50% of its bonus.



Or the repair drones won't repair when afterburning... but if you are using the altfire of miranda, it won't repair either... I hope you see the problem there.

[r87]

That is good to know. You are good at ball so I know that you actually have a clue what you are talking about.

My issue is that the changes have not really benefited anything. In the past, the general idea was to get the ball to your fastest / most agile planes, and they would pass it up the map.

Now, a bomber or whale is just as (well, very nearly just as) fast as a loopy with the ball. Are. You. Kidding?

The loopy and miranda are supposed to be the speedsters. They have ****ty armor, their only defense is being able to outmaneuver an opponent long enough to either a) pass or b) score. This new handicap (self pass is a whole nother issue) is making it very difficult for either of these planes to exploit what should be their greatest strength at ball.

[matattack]

Great patch so far. I find that the Miranda self pass not being allowed does seem to balance the game of ball better..however, after spectating mikesol, I find the repair issue fairly depressing not only because of his inability to repair after warping, but also because he barelly has enough energy to push forward after anchoring. He cannot move fast, and he can't heal..talk about quite the open target? I actually was not expecting an anchor nerf as it seems like few can play it effectively.
Now I'm sure u all are thinking well, that's because Mike is on my team, however, I find that even not coming from a friend, it shouldn't be hard to see that it seems if an anchor randa picks up the bomb, he is slow and rather easy to kill no?
Next is the explodet. This plane I find fairly nerfed. Rockets moving slightly faster seems somewhat uneccessary as it seems we could always pick people off from miles away, now it's even easier!?. As mentioned quite numerously, when being chased by any plane closely, we remotes are in trouble. On1x/ObeighsNoOne and I played 1v1 his loopy vs my explo. The test was for him to follow me closely and see how fast I could kill him. Guess what. It took 6 remote mines for me to take down a trailing loopy! xD
my suggestion is to being back the auto detonate if someone runs into it but with a closer range for it to impact. I find that at least if someone is trailing u from a close range u have the opportunity to push them, if you accurately
angle ur..butt
overall tho, great work lamster and Karl

[ObeighsNo0ne]

I too have played some ball matches with top tier players as well as a few quality tbd scrims vs IL since the patches implementation, and have a few things to say with regards to the new remote mine xplo. For all who don’t know my in-game username is X, or more recently, ON1X. I’ll go about healthy criticism by looking at each change in turn.

Explodet Remote Mine:
1.) no longer collides with planes, complete control of detonation just like rockets
Love this! As many have said before me in posts elsewhere, detonation by collision may have encouraged spam, and more importantly a negative trait, caused users to have their mine explode both unknowingly and and sometimes unwillingly. Collision off addresses this problem head on, enriching xplo gameplay by enabling users 100% control over detonation.
+1 to collision off

2.) increased cooldown (0.35 -> 0.66)
This nerf doesn’t bother me at all. It’s understandable that measures were taken to ease xplo-OP discussion rage/further balance the game. Cooldown between mines addresses key concerns about xplo players simply spamming ‘D’ in the face of enemies who get too close. I tinker with planes other than xplo and would have to agree that being spammed in the face is not so fun.
+1 to cooldown

3.) increased minimum release->detonation time (0.15 -> 0.30)
The increase to release -> detonation time also works to tune down spammability of ‘D’, but imo it is a bit too long. I say this for 1 reason only: The combination of ‘collision off mines’ and increased release-> detonation time creates a situation where enemy planes who manage to get close behind remote users have an epic advantage. In such a circumstance, ejected mines in self defense will now pass through the faces of trailing enemies because of ‘collision off’, and detonation time from release is so far off that the intended defensive mine’s explosion hits the enemy plane in the rear, if at all. This in effect just propels the enemy plane closer to the remote users rear, as experienced play allows one to stunt the additional speed by applying the brakes. Combined with the xplo’s inherent slow speed, the remote user is surely dead after having received the full brunt of an attack they knew was coming but had no weaponry to prevent. This is a problem imo.
-1 to 0.30 seconds release ->detonation time

4.) reduced blast radius by 4%
Not really noticeable to me, so no complaints here. It makes non-xplo players happy so:
+1 to reduction

5.) Increased rocket acceleration by 10%
Looove this I could go on about why, but its fairly obvious. nuff said.
+1 to rocket speed boost

Edit: O yeah, and i like the skins and stuff too . Overall great job Lam+Karl.

[nobodyhome]

Would like to take this moment to point out undocumented changes in this patch:

1. The join game list now have an X beside hard wall servers and no X for bouncy wall servers. Previously, it was the opposite.

[CCN]

Originally Posted by nobodyhome

Would like to take this moment to point out undocumented changes in this patch:

1. The join game list now have an X beside hard wall servers and no X for bouncy wall servers. Previously, it was the opposite.

playing ball to stop self abuse pass .3 is short now I see. .7 is too long. .6 is best, it may even allow some skill self pass.

[Deathblade]

There is definitely a det timer on whale rockets now : /

[GGQ]

This thread is making my brain hurt. I feel like I might cry soon.

I am not even sure where to begin explaining why I think these changes are good, because it seems so obvious to me.

I'll try pulling out posts individually and responding to them.

The problem is you practised and got good at a hard plane, and so its easier to nerf you then to practice a counter. Anchors give up a lot to bomb that well (killing ability, holding map area). This patch is not balanced.

The problem is that there is not an adequate counter to a well-played TA randa bomber. In a 5v5 league game, a skilled TA bomber changes the dynamics far far too much. I respect the skill it takes to become proficient with TA, I know it isn't easy, and not just everyone is going to be able to do it as well as Mikesol does because not everyone is as good as Mikesol with most planes; he's just a really good player. I understand that a high skill setup like TA should allow for high yield results, but TA was simply too good before this patch. As a member of a TBD team that's generally considered quite strong, I can tell you that when facing different team's playstyles and perk setups, we adjust our own perk setups and playstyles, but our general gameplan remains much the same. The only time it changed was when the other team was using a good TA bomber. It changed the entire focus and goal of the team, every perk had to be chosen to try to stop it, and everyone's focus was on ignoring the rest of the team and killing that TA before even thinking about anything else. If Sammich (SS at the time) was able to give Mikesol a little more support, he would have been literally unstoppable. No other single plane setup in the game could have such an impact on our gameplan. It was overpowered. I remember in an old thread suggesting that the reason for this was that TA was just as effective while carrying the bomb; while every other plane suffered a hit to its maneuverability while bomb-running, TA was just as maneuverable with the bomb. This seems to have been addressed with the +35% thing, which I love. Levels the playing field for bomb-running imo. As for the 'no repair while TA or reversing', I never thought of that as a possible change, and as I said earlier, in TBD or Ball, I'm not sure it's necessary. From Snowsickle post, though, it's possible that this change was made with 1dm in mind, where randas with repair was by far the best choice before patch. Maybe it's a little harsh to give randa nerfs for so many different game modes at once, but maybe the fact that different aspects of the randa were considered overpowered in three different game modes (TA bombing in TBD, repair while reversing back and forth behind an obstacle in 1dm, and self-pass in Ball) indicates that randa was, in fact, deserving of the nerfs. Try it out for a while longer and then see what you think.

edit- to make this clearer, I agree with previous posters that perhaps TA should be allowed to repair while using TA, but again, it's a new patch let's try it and see

I'm thinking he is basing his conclusion off of the Football map, where it basically screams "OMG USE LOOPY".

All of this DPS he is stating is lulzy in any actual map.

You clearly are misguided in your thinking here. Forgive me, but might I suggest that you are bad? Eth is one of the best loopies in the game, and he knows his **** when it comes to loopy. Loopy dps is not, in fact, lulzy on any actual map. If you think so, you are doing it wrong. Read his guide and learn how to use cover and emp properly to get into a proper position to kill something with a burst of rockets and you will start to understand what DPS (damage per second, if you're wondering) has to do with it. I suspect from your post that you don't respect the significance of chuting ur enemyz plains in Ball mode. I suspect that you are a bouncy-wall ball baddie, who flies his loopy around ignoring the most central elements of Altitude (namely zone control, dogfighting, and skilled flying) and insisting that you only need to focus on passing and scoring in Ball mode. That isn't the case. Get better at the game in general, and you will find that you are better at using the loopy in Ball. Or maybe you are the best at Ball ever and I should just shut up because I'm a noob. Who knows.

It seems to me you listened to one person on ball. Either
A) People who don't play it
B) Someone who plays it as Loopy

A is just lol, it's clear that you know that Karlam listen to people who play ball, so you are obviously relying on B to make your point, and it's obvious that you are referring to Maimer. Do you really think that Karlam just listen to what Maimer says and then do it? And even if that was true, do you really think that Maimer would get randa self-pass nerfed so that loopy could be the best... and then make every other plane better at carrying and throwing the ball? Don't be silly.

See: all public servers

This was in reference to the fact that large servers favour heavy planes like Explo and bomber over the light planes, and this quotation points out that most public ball servers are large. Might I point out that this is a problem with the servers themselves, not with plane balance? 5,6,7-a-side are vastly superior to 10-a-side anyways, so let's balance around the smaller servers and just change the 20man servers to 14man max so they can properly reflect plane balance. Honestly, if you are going to play 20man servers, plane balance is hardly relevant anyways. Spam ftw.

[Sarah Palin]

Originally Posted by nesnl

I think that the whole attitude of "my plane's role WHILE HOLDING THE BALL has changed" needs to go, because holding the ball should be considered a bad thing and passing a good thing.

I agree completely and this is the adjustment that some people need to get. Loopy is now a receiver, the idea is to get into the endzone fast, catch a cherry pick shot and score a goal. Loopy cannot run the ball, it is a paper plane.

Loopy dominated the previous version because it was the fastest plane, fastest ball runner and the ball was hardly faster than loopy itself over long distances (because of drag).

Thus the best way to score was to have a loopy based running offense. In the new patch the best way to score is to have a DIVERSITY based PASSING offense.

This is exactly what ball needed to give it a higher skill ceiling AND make it more fun.

My issue is that the changes have not really benefited anything. In the past, the general idea was to get the ball to your fastest / most agile planes, and they would pass it up the map.

Now, a bomber or whale is just as (well, very nearly just as) fast as a loopy with the ball. Are. You. Kidding?

The loopy and miranda are supposed to be the speedsters.

Why would a whale run the ball, anyway, ever? It can throw the ball TWICE. AS. FAST.

You're not supposed to hold the ball or run it. You're supposed to pass it. Loopies still have a role because they can get downfield faster and get passed TO by a good passER like whale or bomber.

The planes now have more or less the same running speed, to emphasize that it's the passing game you should be focusing on.

A bomber or whale may be able to run the ball downfield in 5 seconds about as far as loopy... and all that downfield progress will be undone by ONE upfield pass by an enemy bomber or biplane.

[nesnl]

Originally Posted by mikesol

1) Why does it matter what the second most used bomb runner uses? Should it matter? No. Each plane is separate. I don't see why it matters that biplane uses flexi wings instead of repair. It seems silly to even try and associate it like that.

2) A flexi wing biplane can turn fast, has more hp, and can move quicker. The miranda takes a ton of skill to be able to dodge and zip around and I still run into walls constantly. All planes are not equal - nor should they be equal.

3) All perks being viable on every plane seems like wishful thinking. Honestly why would rubber hull be that good on certain planes? Why should I wield ace instincts as a bomb runner? There are certain perks that go with certain abilities. Why do most loopies use heavy armor? It's because that's the best perk for most play styles. This repair nerf seems like it was more designed to help the issue of 1v1 randa. However, that doesn't really effect that very much. The thing it does do, is very strongly effect the bombing abilities - which already has gotten a big nerf from the 35% slower anchor.

It matters what planes are used for the same purposes because ideally they should be equally balanced because they are playing the same role. I am not saying that they should do the same thing, but rather their abilities are on the same playing field. I think a lot of the complaints are trying to make an argument that repair has been totally negated, however, it still works just in a lesser capacity. I haven't seen it in action, maybe it was too much, but I think that overall this type of change was needed. You say that all planes are not equal, but I think we should strive to create a more equal playing field rather than a "so what if my plane is a lot better than any other plane at running bombs" attitude. Also, I am not saying that all perks are going to be viable all the time. I realize that that is a bad way to look at it, but if one is so blatantly better than the others then I feel it should be addressed, which it was in this case.

Originally Posted by r87

That is good to know. You are good at ball so I know that you actually have a clue what you are talking about.

My issue is that the changes have not really benefited anything. In the past, the general idea was to get the ball to your fastest / most agile planes, and they would pass it up the map.

Now, a bomber or whale is just as (well, very nearly just as) fast as a loopy with the ball. Are. You. Kidding?

The loopy and miranda are supposed to be the speedsters. They have ****ty armor, their only defense is being able to outmaneuver an opponent long enough to either a) pass or b) score. This new handicap (self pass is a whole nother issue) is making it very difficult for either of these planes to exploit what should be their greatest strength at ball.

I realize that the old way of playing ball was to get the ball to a loopy and just let him run with it. This is why most ball games consisted of a huge amount of loopys. Even in more competitive games a team might field 1 or 2 other planes, such as an explodet for defense, but overall it really made no sense to play anything but loopy or maybe miranda for breakaway goals.

I think that we should all focus on how the new way of playing ball will be. Instead of trying to fit the new changes into the old methods, try to look at how new methods will work. Like I said before, passing to me is the skill in ball. Loopy / Miranda can still outrun the other planes when not holding the ball. The whole point of the changes was to allow the slower planes to be able to create great passing opportunities to other planes that are moving up field with their speed. Think of football. You might have a slow quarterback, but he can still rocket the ball up to a speedy wide receiver.

So the greatest strengths of the planes are still there, but just in different capacities. The slower planes can now throw the ball with incredible speed to the faster planes who are going to be moving up field. Even in the old ball I rarely ever held the ball. I might score 6 goals in a game and still have a total time of only 15 seconds of holding the ball. So I think that you should give these new changes a chance. Instead of thinking how you can out do a team by holding the ball, think of how you can move the ball up field by holding the ball as little time as possible.

And just as a note, I have been around this game for a while, maybe not as long as some of the old timers, but long enough to see quite a few patches. A lot of times people get set in their ways and when a change comes along they are so quick to jump and say that it's bad. However, in the past the changes mostly work out for the best and people adjust to what is a better game style. I say just give this a chance and wait a week or so. If you still think there is a problem then let's hash it out then.

[CCN]

Originally Posted by GGQ

A is just lol, it's clear that you know that Karlam listen to people who play ball, so you are obviously relying on B to make your point, and it's obvious that you are referring to Maimer. Do you really think that Karlam just listen to what Maimer says and then do it? And even if that was true, do you really think that Maimer would get randa self-pass nerfed so that loopy could be the best... and then make every other plane better at carrying and throwing the ball? Don't be silly.

While I agree that anchor was too strong, esp. on your analysis this may push it too far only time will tell.

This ball thing however is..
To start everyone could see ball needed changes when you have 98% of the planes ebing loopy something is wrong. Was self pass imba? It was too strong, but it gave randa a purpose. Now what does a randa do in ball? I wasn't making a point based on A or B, I literally believe they only listened to tbders or loopies. Maimer defo comes to mind as he is closer to them then most, but you do get a lot ball loopy whiners who couldn't get a 1/2 kd ratio in tbd complaining. Their sample of who to listen to in ball is obviously bad (due to the mass of loopies with half built basics) and I hope that as the plane range balances out they can get better advice on it.

I (reasonably I feel) consider myself a good ball player who plays 4 planes in ball, and from my perspective it looks like loopy players got the best side of it. There are bombers (e.g. Ryguy) who routinely go 26-0 and make a tough defence. Or whales who go 26-3, or Biplanes who can outmaneuver loopies (e.g wiseguy) but you still see so few of these other planes. Why? Because they are harder to play. If you plan to make the ball type good for people who have half built fundamentals then this is a good nerf, otherwise you're merely over punishing a plane because the masses don't like it.


TLDR (may of rambled):
I believe Lam listened to both A and B. This sample is biased by noobs complaining. Other viable planes not used due to skill necessary. Changing the gametype based on noobs wants is not good (unless you want ball to be the safe haven of just noobs). Hopefully if we get more planes in the mix the voices that the developers have to listen to is more wide and we can get a further balance change.

[Slevin]

Originally Posted by Deathblade

So let me get this right...

You are saying Loopy and Miranda were overpowered...while you claim their counters had no role.

GJ

All he try to say is for all of you loops ppl, stop bitching about loops being a weak plane as it is already good as it is? meh, i cant speak english well

[Smushface]

On a side note, I have a concern about the implementation of patches.

With all this dispute about the pros and cons of balance items, there needs to be some sort of beta testing for balance patches. Instead of implementing patches onto live servers and having a "wait and see" mentality, there should be some level of testing and discussion before the changes go live.

I'm sure it would not be hard to find plenty of willing testers for new patches. Maybe incorporate community points as a reward for participating in beta testing?

I say this not to insult the developers, but as a general suggestion to the progression of this game. Cheers.

[r87]

After having played for several hours with some of the better ball players out there ( http://i46.tinypic.com/25fovmf.jpg ), I feel like we have reached some general conclusions about how this patch affects ball. If any of them want to chime in with their own opinions, feel free.

1) The miranda is no longer useful in its old capacity. A good player can still get some results with it, but it's pretty sketchy. I don't play miranda, but virtually everyone who uses it as their primary plane is not amused. They can articulate their grievances better than I can.

2) Maps need to be reworked to accommodate ridiculous shot power. We are currently in a football map scoring half court shots with a loopy. This is the most egregious example, but the new shot range of even the weakest planes is just plain laughable.

3) Something about loopys sucking, I forget. They don't suck, but my god it is annoying to climb uphill with the ball.

4) Kill ball_woods. With fire.

5) Did I mention the maps (especially the smaller ones and ones with wide open shot arcs around the goal) need some work?

6) I just made a half court shot with a loopy on ball_football. I am all that is man.

[r87]

Regarding loopys: (Ohh I forget to mention, most of us were playing on random for much of the session, to test everything out.)

I play loopy. I like the loopy. I tried the other planes...I don't like them. I like going fast. I am too retarded to figure out time anchor, so loopy is what I use.

With that said, this patch made me at first. Now, I am still pretty , but it's not as bad as originally thought.

Harmonica is right (though none of you heard him yelling at us for an hour), the game is much more focused on team play now. Shot speed makes up for a loss of carrying speed, but it is still very boring to have a plane moving so slowly. The adrenaline rush isn't really there when you are watching grandpa bomber pass your sleek red loopy on the highway just cuz you have a ball in your trunk.

Regarding bombers:

So basically, after having played with very good players, the game appears reasonably balanced for everything except the miranda and the bomber. The bomber, you ask? Yes. Stick some flexy wings on a bomber and it is a beast at running the ball. It's like an old loopy on crack.

Now, keep in mind that was experiment was run with very skilled players. I have a suspicion that things are slightly more chaotic on the public servers (read: they are).

[ryebone]

Originally Posted by Smushface

With all this dispute about the pros and cons of balance items, there needs to be some sort of beta testing for balance patches. Instead of implementing patches onto live servers and having a "wait and see" mentality, there should be some level of testing and discussion before the changes go live.

I will strongly +1 this. As most of us seem to have forgotten, myself included, Altitude is no longer a beta game; it's on the market, available to a paying consumer. Pushing out untested patches nowadays is probably an inappropriate way to go about updating Altitude. In the past, we knew from the start that the game was a development stage, and that we were subject to any changes the developers wanted to put in. But now, the customers have the right to a finished product, with any updates being focus-group-approved. I'm confident we have a core of players willing to do this (the ones who make the most reasoned balance arguments anyway), so I don't see how it would be difficult to implement.

[Stormich]

Huuuuge patch, I love the ball tweaks and the miranda bounce nerf. I miss my mine hoping though. I guess I'll have to get used to it. Thanks for doing such a huge update.

[TRUEPAiN]

Originally Posted by r87

Regarding loopys: (Ohh I forget to mention, most of us were playing on random for much of the session, to test everything out.)

I play loopy. I like the loopy. I tried the other planes...I don't like them. I like going fast. I am too retarded to figure out time anchor, so loopy is what I use.

With that said, this patch made me at first. Now, I am still pretty , but it's not as bad as originally thought.

Harmonica is right (though none of you heard him yelling at us for an hour), the game is much more focused on team play now. Shot speed makes up for a loss of carrying speed, but it is still very boring to have a plane moving so slowly. The adrenaline rush isn't really there when you are watching grandpa bomber pass your sleek red loopy on the highway just cuz you have a ball in your trunk.

Regarding bombers:

So basically, after having played with very good players, the game appears reasonably balanced for everything except the miranda and the bomber. The bomber, you ask? Yes. Stick some flexy wings on a bomber and it is a beast at running the ball. It's like an old loopy on crack.

Now, keep in mind that was experiment was run with very skilled players. I have a suspicion that things are slightly more chaotic on the public servers (read: they are).

I like the high speeds as well..

Especially weaving through those cave rocks like a hero while all the bad guys chase you.. then after all the weaving through chaos, you see a familiar face emerge from the smokes! then just as you're about to die, you lob a fadeaway pass that all hope relys on to your friend for the hawt score

Memories.. :'(

I don't know, the ball physics can be salvaged if you increase the width of ball maps by I dunno.. 4000 - 8000 pixels? and make a few alterations?





While the slower/higher speeds of ball carrying does somewhat motivate passing, It doesn't relinquish a rambo easily sniping the goal from halfway across the map right now.

Personally, I felt the ball physics prior to this patch were perfect. I think it was one of those situations things were you could say, don't fix what isn't broken.

Just saying when ball matches were as competitive and intense and team orientated as they were prior, it didn't seem like the ball physics needed or wanted to be changed.




Currently, "dribbling" or clearing the ball is nonexistent.

It definitely encourages team passing, but unless you're a straight G with all the turbo in the world. There is no hope of you retrieving something you shot out without it reaching conflict.

With this, there is no Michael Jordan situations.. you're the only one left, where you can bounce it, cross 2 guys, kill the guard, and shot for 3 and win the game.

I guess we'll have to wait for our teams to respawn now, or find new ways to run it across the map, or just forget all about that and be forced to work together in every dire situation.

You can however beam it across the floor with ease! ..and let your team regroup with the time I suppose, unless it's a map like ball_maze, or ball_lostcity, in which your bounce pass it probably going to hit a random piece of debris or void space and make a perfect vertical pass for the opposing team to pick up, or your own team to pick up, but then who knows. It may just ricochet 3 times into the goal.

Exciting!

I suppose the same goes for hitting the rim. Ollie-oops and rebounds are really struggling. Once the ball hits the rim, it rockets straight towards the ceiling, or vice-versa.

But then again.. teamwork right




Loopy is my plane, and I may have to learn to fly something else..

I was carrying the ball, and obviously I felt like a frail 9 month pregnant explodit when I had the ball..

I tried dribbling to move fast and dodge some damage..

However, had little hope of catching what I launched in time to make my turn or potential pass to my teammate.

Which is rather an issue.. Unless again you're team is magnificent, can perfectly pass the ball 3-4 consecutive times, without anyone getting killed or missing the ball.

The ball will end up on the ground, and in those times you should be able to swoop it and carry it out back to your team.

Trying to dribble is just risky risky business

Yes no, maybe so? I mean, you can do some sick bounces to yourself -yes, but depending on the map, and just the all the little factors, tough coconuts man.

But then again.. TEAMWORK!!

Regardless of how hulk I am right now because of this update (not really), I look forward to the efforts and change we ballin' ballers will need to make to accomplish "teamwork" and be successful around these cruel depressing times. It really shouldn't be hard.. sniping is easy -ya?



Just my opinion after playing the patch for a bit, at this point..

Only time will tell..

Anyone's opinion is as good as the next.
+1 beta-testing

please don't bite my head off,



<3 T-PaiN

[Element]

since the update, i have been have high ping on all of the servers. Also it lags so much it kinda makes the game not fun (weird english). Also its really hard getting skins.

[Don't Follow]

Originally Posted by mikesol

Ok so I've played for awhile - did 2 scrims against IL and a bunch of ball matches (although it hasn't been a huge time since the patch).

My impressions:

1) Miranda self pass - while saddening that it's gone - is not such a big deal to me. It makes it so passing is much more part of the game and I'm excited about that. As much fun as it was to be able to dodge entire enemy teams and fly across maps - I think it's nice that I have a purpose of passing the ball.

2) The Miranda 35% longer while holding annoys me. However, it's not a game breaker. It doesn't make the plane unplayable - although it is definitely a decent nerf to my plane.

3) The repair + time anchor thing I think is overkill. Ok take away self-pass, take away bounce shot, take away my ability to anchor quicker but seriously? The time anchor's secondary ability is all about anchoring. It's ridiculous that repair is stopped because of this. It's basically like I can either play the plane without doing any movement at all or I can anchor and lose the whole point of repair. While it is touching people felt like the miranda is so op that ALL of this was needed I just feel like this is the wrong way to go about it. It reminds me of how laser was nerfed so badly after Maimer pwned so many people with it that it was underpowered for a long time. If you want to make it so I can't repair and anchor give us SOMETHING in return (more hp, faster movement, etc). The Miranda really doesn't need all of these nerfs. Really this is the biggest upset of mine in this patch.

4) Skins annoy me (Although I am glad that you can shut them off). My issue is that I can't tell what color team people are on when they have them on (at least the ones I've seen). In other words, for us color-blind people skins are frustrating and not usable in their current state.

5) The community points thing really bugs me. I have shared this game with all of my friends back in the day. I have posted it on facebook. I have bought the game when it was $20. I've made a significant guide and contributed a lot through suggestions and posts here. I've won a screenshot contest. Yet, despite all of that, I have 1 community point. 1. It just seems unfair / ridiculous to me that I have to go out and spam stuff and that pretty much my only option is figuring out how to abuse the system because I've already done all of the community stuff way back in the day. Yes, I get you want to spread the game. Yes, I get that people need motivation for spreading it. However, there should more things to gain community points. I'm not trying to be stuck up or anything but I feel that I have contributed more than "1 point" to the community.

I am not trying to take the easy way out or anything like that, but...

EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID!

I agree with every word, especially the comunity points...it's horse**** quite frankly... regardless of years of loyalty, gamer-reviewed articles posted, price paid for this game, et cetera, those points are not a reflection of one's community advocacy for the game, but merely a cheesy (almost tacky) marketing ploy.

SAVE THE WHALE!

[TRUEPAiN]

After playing for awhile, I kinda take back all my comments. It's not bad, and Loopy is still pretty great.

[Flyngbanana]

The key part of the patch to me was the explo nerf. I've been calling for it for a while but I wanted to see how it would affect me.

My initial impression that it has been nerfed too much. I only just managed a 1 - 1 ratio in a random pub game, and I think I'm fairly competent at explodet. The combination of both nerfs to the cooldown and the minimum release/detonation time makes me think about switching to another plane. I'm vulnerable for a large period of time and I can't remote mine boost anymore :S.

I planned to wait a few more days of trying to play it before I would post so I could properly make a judgement but this nerf seemed extreme.

[jeppew]

oh let's see:

Laser buff, check.
Everything else nerfed, check.

awesome patch.

[Pax]

Originally Posted by mikesol

4) Skins annoy me (Although I am glad that you can shut them off). My issue is that I can't tell what color team people are on when they have them on (at least the ones I've seen). In other words, for us color-blind people skins are frustrating and not usable in their current state.

5) The community points thing really bugs me. I have shared this game with all of my friends back in the day. I have posted it on facebook. I have bought the game when it was $20. I've made a significant guide and contributed a lot through suggestions and posts here. I've won a screenshot contest. Yet, despite all of that, I have 1 community point. 1. It just seems unfair / ridiculous to me that I have to go out and spam stuff and that pretty much my only option is figuring out how to abuse the system because I've already done all of the community stuff way back in the day. Yes, I get you want to spread the game. Yes, I get that people need motivation for spreading it. However, there should more things to gain community points. I'm not trying to be stuck up or anything but I feel that I have contributed more than "1 point" to the community.

I totally agree with mikesol here.
Skins are difficult for colorblind people. I need a bit more time to confirm myself that this plane is one of my time or not.

Nevertheless I invited friends to Altitude and did all that facebook stuff. I didn't bought it over steam and I am not using steam.
You need to support your players, who started playing from the early hour.

[DiogenesDog]

Originally Posted by Don't Follow

I agree with every word, especially the comunity points...it's horse**** quite frankly... regardless of years of loyalty, gamer-reviewed articles posted, price paid for this game, et cetera, those points are not a reflection of one's community advocacy for the game, but merely a cheesy (almost tacky) marketing ploy.

I can understand where you're coming from, but I think you're looking at it wrong. I'm in a similar boat - I've done a ridiculous amount of stuff to promote this game in the past, and I'm currently at 1 community point.

Key words: IN THE PAST.

it'd be kind of hard to award community points for past actions, and maybe more importantly, wouldn't actually help build the community NOW. if nimbly is bad about awarding points for stuff other than link referrals in the future, I feel like I'll have reason to complain.

I dunno, I'm just trying to imagine the effort it'd take to hunt down all the past efforts and be fair, and I just don't see it being possible. starting with a clean slate from now forward seems like a reasonable move to me that will allow them to focus on stuff that's more important.

[macskeptic]

The first thing that comes to mind is "where are the non-ball loopy nerfs?".

I agree with the overall notion of the comments on this thread so far: this patch seems to be based almost solely on the trigger happy dual missile loopy newbies.

[Haxz]

I have a problem.I bought a skin and then went to play on a server.Then i tried puting the skin on.It redirected me to a page listing all the skins.{and it wouldnt let me use it}Somebody help?

[wiseguy]

I can understand the reason behind each change, and how people felt the loopy was overpowered. I'm not going to debate that right now, that's what the rest of this thread is for.

I'd like to address one issue: massively changing a game that was already pretty darn good. Sure, it might have needed some tweaks to the balance. This totally changes the game, and I'm unhappy about that, regardless of what the particular differences are.

As someone who has spent a lot of time practicing the old plane ball, and help put together a clan that was pretty good at it, I'm fairly annoyed now that we're all starting over learning the new plane ball which really doesn't translate well. Complete change of ball mechanics, as well as changing every plane (hard to learn how to shoot in one and then switch, now that they all do it differently) has really thrown any skill I had out the window.

Yes, I could start over and try to get good again. The point I'm making is that I'm annoyed that I have to do it. Why not an incremental change? Why not take one of these changes, set the percentage differences really low, and see how it works before ramping it up some more if necessary?

In my opinion, making dramatic changes all at once only serves to confuse and annoy people...ball seems to be very chaotic now. Sure, eventually it might sort itself out, but there was no need to do it this way, and I'm unhappy the all-at-once approach was the one chosen.

[Kafka]

I played for an hour or so, and I now hate the game of ball. The changes, especially to the miranda are atrocious and render it useless.

[wiseguy]

Originally Posted by TRUEPAiN

...

With this, there is no Michael Jordan situations.. you're the only one left, where you can bounce it, cross 2 guys, kill the guard, and shot for 3 and win the game.

I guess we'll have to wait for our teams to respawn now, or find new ways to run it across the map, or just forget all about that and be forced to work together in every dire situation.

I really agree with TPain here. One of my favorite things about ball was how teamwork was important to win games, but how if you were really on fire you could make amazing plays and score the impossible goal with speed, skill, and luck. Since the loopy, the only plane maneuverable enough to dodge missiles and defenders properly, is now totally incapable with the ball, I'm afraid that option has vanished.

This is now TBD, where you have to fly en masse if you want to work as a group, otherwise it's chaos and you have to just hope it lands in friendly hands.

I miss being able to make a play that wasn't just an interception of a crazy bouncing ball.

[r87]

Originally Posted by wiseguy

I really agree with TPain here. One of my favorite things about ball was how teamwork was important to win games, but how if you were really on fire you could make amazing plays and score the impossible goal with speed, skill, and luck. Since the loopy, the only plane maneuverable enough to dodge missiles and defenders properly, is now totally incapable with the ball, I'm afraid that option has vanished.

This is now TBD, where you have to fly en masse if you want to work as a group, otherwise it's chaos and you have to just hope it lands in friendly hands.

I miss being able to make a play that wasn't just an interception of a crazy bouncing ball.

About this:

Having played under the new patch, I saw plenty of amazing shots with the loopy or other planes. These shots were certainly on the more difficult end of what was possible pre-patch. Now they are...average.

The problem is, I did not see much amazing maneuvering to get in position for the shot. The new range is so absurd that a good player can hit a shot from previously unfathomable distances.

The close range maneuvering around the goal has been partially lost due to the combination of speed decreases to the most maneuverable planes and shot power increases for everyone.

[Vania]

BALL is basically TBD with a ball now...

[r87]

Originally Posted by TRUEPAiN

After playing for awhile, I kinda take back all my comments. It's not bad, and Loopy is still pretty great.

It's not the same though. I'm not suggesting that you can't do anything with loopy now...I scored a ton of goals last night. The issue is that theloopy is...boring...

The new strategy is either (a) scoop a rebound and score or (b) hope all the defenders are dead/not paying attention and launch a bomb from midfield.

There is no more streaking through the defense and getting that clutch goal that your team needs. You are just too slow.

Now with the increased shot power there are other wyas to do that, but they are not - in my opinion - in the spirit of the loopy's design.

[[FN]MONXY FIST]

Originally Posted by r87

It's not the same though. I'm not suggesting that you can't do anything with loopy now...I scored a ton of goals last night. The issue is that theloopy is...boring...

The new strategy is either (a) scoop a rebound and score or (b) hope all the defenders are dead/not paying attention and launch a bomb from midfield.

There is no more streaking through the defense and getting that clutch goal that your team needs. You are just too slow.

Now with the increased shot power there are other wyas to do that, but they are not - in my opinion - in the spirit of the loopy's design.

We get it loopy was your favorite plane and your mad it is no longer the best option in ball. However game balance doesn't care what your favorite plane is.

[r87]

I'm not mad (well, I was in my first posts, but not he recent ones), and I'm still more than competent with it.

It's just a completely different feel for the plane now, and it seems to be counter intuitive that the fastest plane in the game no longer has any noticeable speed advantage when carrying the ball.

[combat]

Originally Posted by r87

I'm not mad (well, I was in my first posts, but not he recent ones), and I'm still more than competent with it.

It's just a completely different feel for the plane now, and it seems to be counter intuitive that the fastest plane in the game no longer has any noticeable speed advantage when carrying the ball.

The point is it being the "lightest" plane, small and fast. Extra weight is going to slow that down a lot more than a heavier one.

Lets say you are running in a race, and you being the fastest think you can win. Well, this patch is trying to even things out, lets hand you a 20 lb weight to carry and the big guy only has to carry 5 lbs. I know the analogy is weird but thats the way it works. The big guy is stronger and therefore can throw the weight farther the small guy not so much. See?

[gemigemi]

Before I say what I have to say about the patch I'll present myself as I'm still a new face on the forums and in the game (Steam noob :P ). So yeah, I'm {arr}Gemi in game and only play ball. I label myself as a "casual-pro" in that I'm definitely no match against the great veteran players such as the guys in {ball}, but I'm still doing well compared to majority of the player base both in goals, passes, guarding and kills.

Today I spent a lot of time on a couple of different servers with {arr}D4rt getting a feeling to the new game mechanics. Half of the day we spent on 10vs10 servers. The experience was absolutely horrible. The huge influx of bombers makes playing an absolutely chaotic mess with no tactics or progression at all. It's horrible. And everyone is saying the same in chat.

Then we moved on to the {arr} ball server where we have a limit of 7vs7. With this player amount the game felt good and possibly even better than before. It was enjoyable to play and you could actually play without having huge explosion walls everywhere.

The conclusion for us was that ball is now unplayable in larger games, but 5vs5 to 7vs7 works well. Each plane also seems playable and has its uses, so none of them is useless or boring to play. I'm not going into great detail for each plane and I'll let the veteran players dabble with the fine tuning discussion. Also, this might change later on when the community has had time to play more with the changes as the favorite planes might change and the nature of the game at the same time.

What I'd suggest personally is to turn all of the official servers to 7vs7. (or max 8vs8 if you want to keep it a bit larger so that you have more slots for the new players to play) Other than the player limitation I don't feel an urgent need for other changes, though when players have had the time to throughly test it all slight changes to other things might be good. Time will tell.

All in all, good job guys, even though there are some negatives at the moment.

[Tank]

ok... this update is just going to take some getting used to i guess. i dont like the increased cooldown time for remote mines. It just makes mine hopping almost impossible, and makes no difference in battle, because energy consumption makes you wait awhile before releasing another mine anyway. also, another way to earn CP. an in-game way. maybe if you win 10 battles you get one CP? so that it takes forever to get a skin, but it is possible?