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#41
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ok, ok if it means that much to u ill gain my levels the fair way and sorry for offending any of u.
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#42
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Just letting you know that we at {arr} have a similar stance towards this issue. I trust my team and haven't made it an issue with them, and they've been worth the trust so far, but anyone feel free to let me know if you assume someone of is abusing the system. I'll be glad to make sure that this system stays enjoyable for everyone.
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#43
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Please reset KLF.Luke's stats.
He's ace rank 10 which proves obvious abuse of the system. |
#44
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Agreed on this one. Would also like to see the other guys who abused get their stats reset.
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#45
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I neither cheated, nor hacked, just chose the fastest way.
If the system if faulty, blame the system, not the players. Well, maimer must have been really pissed off to ban me from the ladder server for 100 days. xD |
#46
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Eth has been playing 14hrs a day and I dont even know if hes on his second prestige. How is it remotely concievable for you to be rank 10 without abusing? Dont answer, its not.
Oh and Maimer 100 days? You put me to shame I only banned him for a week on APL, you trailblazer you. |
#47
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I smell a ban war coming. :P In b4 infinite ban.
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#48
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#49
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die in a fire
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#50
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I completely agree. I'd really like to restart from the level I had before I started farming and redo all of the xp the legitimate way this time.
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#51
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Ok, wishing me to die is not gonna help.
Correct me if I'm wrong: - we can create a private server (True or False?) - we can play in our own server (True or False?) - we get exp for playing in our own server (True or False?) - there is no rule saying we shall not do any of this three things (True or False?) All of the previous statements are true, therefore I do not see why i should be banned, insulted, or whatever. If you wanna reset my ranks, fine. But please fix the game, too. |
#52
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Correct me if I'm wrong:
-we can create a private server (True or False?) -we can choose who plays in a private server (True or False?) -we, as a community, find your actions despicable (True or False?) -there is no rule saying we cannot ban you from a private server (True or False?) If you want to abuse the Ace system, fine. But enjoy playing on your own private servers. |
#53
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I don't understand your objection: by all appearances, you prefer to play Altitude without human opponents. No ban can prevent you from playing that.
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#54
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The developers know that no matter what they do there will always be loopholes to the system as you have pointed out. What you have failed to answer is why did you abuse the system? What did you actually get out of it other then feeling like you need to come on here and defend yourself? Was it really worth your time to sit there for 15 hours doing the same thing over and over again? I honestly want to know what you derive from all of this, the mind of a person who does these types of things intrigues me.
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#55
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Ace 10 is 800,000 experience points. Ace ranks were released four days ago. So... you found a legitimate way to earn two hundred thousand experience points a day?
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#56
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Like Kuja says I've been playing literally 14 hours a day, sometimes more, and I'm soon ace rank #3. I've also been doing it the "fastest" way for the most part, i.e. bouncy 20/20 ball servers chock full of newbies, using acid to get absurd amounts of assists etc. There is just absolutely no way you can be above rank #4 while playing legit(and I'm pretty sure no one has even played more than me, too).
Also Luke, there's lots of ways you can escape taxes too. You can do it and blame the system later on, but you're probably gonna get ****ed anyway. Hard concept to grasp(true or false)? |
#57
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I wanted to see if at ace 10 there was some hidden reward.
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There are some people who reach the summit of a mountain working their way by foot, with ski, climbing, etc. I am one of those, so I understand your point of view in this ace ranks thing. Some other just take the helicopter, and go to the top the "cheap" way. That is what I did with the ranks. Climbers do not ban the others from the mountain, tho. |
#58
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Maybe the climbers are conservationists and the helicopter disturbs the pure environment of the mountain, in which case a ban of the helicopter is the only recourse.
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#59
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Absolutely true.
Then suppose you have to solve a complex calculation. You can do it by hand, proving that you can do it. Or you may use the calculator, solving it anyway. |
#60
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There are also mountains with peaks so high that helicopters can not reach the top. While I certainly agree that these actions do not make sense and should be discouraged (see my previous post if you have doubts), I'd also love to see some sort of system put into place to prevent it from happening.
Put into place a system that doesn't allow experience to be gained unless there are two other people there, take away experience from those who abused the system, whatever. People will always find loopholes, but the less loopholes there are, the less there are to find. I say we elevate the mountain to a level where helicopters can not reach. Quote:
We've all proved that we can debate these things if necessary. Now let's stop with the lame analogies everyone, shall we? I'd prefer to argue over what could be done to improve this system rather than go out on tangents about mountains or calculators. Last edited by Pieface; 02-17-2010 at 10:30 PM. |
#61
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None of your crazy analogies is gonna make us revert our ban on you from the ladders.
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#62
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Holy cow. That just isn't healthy. Really not worth doing that to yourself just for the ace ranks.
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#63
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I wonder if the Iccup people would ban players for playing games against noobs over and over for rank on battle.net ladder (if such an abuse existed/ was worse).
Its a small icon, keeping away a player from our already limited player pool forever doesn't seem like an overreaction to anyone else? Last edited by CCN; 02-18-2010 at 10:28 AM. |
#64
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If there is an easier way, the haters will play. The milk is already spoiled. Opinions are like ass holes. You may think it is retarded to set up a macro before leaving for work, I may think it is retarded to play Altitude for 14 hours a day. To each his own. Are the people who don't care at fault, or is it the ones who care too much? Is one way wrong because less people prefer it? Are sweeping accusations, generalizations, and slandering more acceptable than setting macros? Shame on the 'abusers' for ruining ace ranks? Screw that, shame on all of you for all the spite and hatred that is ruining our community. People used to farm, they still farm, and will continue to. Nothing new here. Everyone knows who is 'legit' and who isn't - so whats the big deal? It is a fundamentally flawed system for which we all know who really is at fault. Yet, no one has pointed the finger there. It is human nature to take the easier path. This is nothing new. XP has never meant anything in this game and it never will. Experience can be farmed, as well as community points, we all knew this. I don't think it is fair that some people literally don't have a god damn thing to do IRL and can sit in their parents' basement for hourrrrsss leveling up on noobs and stacking mountain dew cans. Bull**** opinion you say? Now you know how I felt reading your BS opinions. Don't like being slandered? Neither do I. I could care less about the ace system, it is a joke in its current form, and we all need to accept that until it is fixed. What I do care about is this community. I <3 most of you and want to keep it that way. Well.... some of you. Hmmm... maybe just a few of you. Screw it I hate you all (except for kuji, bingo, evil, beags, capey, and tex - o and forgot about sin)
I was out of town when this patch was released, and for the first few days it was live. I was entirely unaware of the cluster**** of bull**** that was be encircling this whole dynamic. I leveled rapidly to let people know there is still an issue, I had no idea it had already been exposed. Last edited by STACK; 02-18-2010 at 01:25 PM. |
#65
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+1 on CCN
What is the problem actually? I mean - everyone (including the actor) knows, how was the Ace10 achieved...ok - but what does it change for everyone? Are you all worried, that by such actions the principle of ace "coolness" may be (and is) broken? - well maybe I personally think, that I won't go further after I get to Ace1...simply because I'm fed up of ratio whoring and thinking about xp, while playing (instead of thinking about the game it self). I don't really care what ace level ppl are and how did they achieve it - because it hardly changes anything in the game itself. I think if Luke wanted to do it the way he did and found it fun ... well he payed for the game as everyone did and could do with his account whatever he wanted. Why not, since it doesn't change anything? I may say something terrible now (at least someone might think this way) - but it's just a game...ppl have fun the way they want it. My personal fun has nothing to do with the other's guys ace ranks. so what's the problem? |
#66
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#67
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Everyone just needs to chill. If you abuse the system you are probably going to get banned from privately run servers. Everyone knows this is to be expected, including the people who are abusing. So stop acting surprised with your reactions. You are all smarter than that. It's like the people who go into a private server and start swearing or acting racist and then when they get banned they say "but there is a chat filter." Let's just leave it at that and move on.
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#68
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Last edited by CCN; 02-18-2010 at 01:28 PM. |
#69
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So it's cool to farm ace rank #10 in one day then? Okay, let's just **** this entire system over because it's possible. Just really disappointed in you, why the **** would you even do it.. that "easiest" way is just pure bull****. Let's just make an analogy to hackers in SC, just because it's human nature to take the easiest way, we should just turn the shoulder to it and be merry go-happy friends?
Also, grats on reverting to the no-life insult to your own clanmate.. did you really think I wasn't aware people were gonna give me that when I decided to go for it? And just because I have the time to nerd it out 14 hours a day, you have to abuse to stay ahead? You can also, you know, not do it. |
#70
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Quote:
Last edited by STACK; 02-18-2010 at 01:32 PM. |
#71
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Yeah, the "I was doing you all a favor" card isn't gonna work either.
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#72
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Ok. So I wrote this quick one-liner post and some people interpreted it as rage. Think of it more as disgusted dismissal; a quick, calm 'gtfo' to what I thought was one person's ridiculous viewpoint. It seems that more people have that viewpoint, so I'm gonna go ahead and make a longer post with some explanation. Some of this is going to seem obvious, but that's because it is. You abusers all already knew it and ignored it so you could do whatever you wanted.
So. The developers added a prestige system to the game, under the guise of ace badges. Why would developers do such a thing? What is the purpose of a prestige system in a game? Well there are two purposes, both of which are, as I said before, obvious. (1) It allows the community to differentiate between levels of experience between players. (2) It gives players something to work towards; another reason to keep playing. I'll talk more about each purpose and how abusing ****s it up. (1) It allows the community to differentiate between levels of experience between players. Keep in mind that the community has asked for this a number of times. Many people have pointed out that level 60 comes relatively quickly, and before the prestige system was implemented, people who had played for a year had the same rank as people who had played for a month. Obviously there would be a disparity in skill between them, while the level 60 badge indicated equality. So the prestige system was designed to let people who have played more and acquired more experience to reach a higher level. As eth's experiences testify, levelling up is long and slow work, as it's designed to be. The longer it takes to reach the highest level, the more differentiation there will be between players. That way, it's easy to see at a glance who has played most, and people can wear whatever prestige badge they've earned as an indicator of the time they've spent perfecting their Altitude skills, and how long they've been a part of the community. Obviously, abuse ****s that up. While you are farming experience on a private server, you are not playing the game. You are not honing your altitude skills. You are not participating in the community. You are going against the obvious design of the prestige system and nullifying it's purpose. You are disrespecting the community that wanted a prestige system to serve that purpose. (2) It gives players something to work towards; another reason to keep playing. This isn't why the community wanted the prestige system, but it's obvious why the developers would want this. As long time players know, there's no need for an artificial prestige system for us to continue playing; the awesome gameplay is enough. But there have been reports of people reaching level 60, thinking they're done, and quitting. Having a prestige system gives those people a good reason to keep playing. It lets the developers advertise another feature. It increases the replay ability of the game, and encourages people to spend more time online playing the game. Even for long-time players who love the game and don't intend to quit any time soon, it encourages us to stay online longer, earning a bit more experience and levelling up a bit faster in the public servers. The developers are not helped at all by people sitting in private servers and farming experience. They are helped by people filling up the public servers and actually playing the game. By abusing to reach the max rank, you take away the obvious purpose of encouraging people to play the game more. You disrespect the developers who implemented a prestige system to serve that purpose. So, obviously, abuse hurts the game, the community and the developers. What are your justifications for doing it? Well, I've seen a few so far, and they are all laughable. "I was trying to show other people how it could be abused so it would be fixed!!!" Don't be an idiot. If that was your intention, you would have sent a private report so no one else would figure it out. At worst you would abuse one rank of Ace and then report it to prove that it worked. "The game lets me do it, so it's the developers fault, not mine" Just because you are able to do something, doesn't mean it is right to. Just because there's a bug in a game doesn't mean it's ok to abuse it. Developers do their best to weed out bugs, but not everything is caught before release. Karlam already made efforts to prevent abuse, and while I know that a few methods for abuse slipped through, that doesn't mean that those ones are ok to use either. If you think bugs are ok to abuse, you have entirely missed the spirit of legitimate competition that drives gamers. "There's no rule explicitly forbidding it" Just because a game is a game doesn't mean you can let go of your morals. As I outlined above, it's clear why abuse is wrong. Don't do something that's obviously wrong just because there's no rule. If you need a rule to tell you when something that's obviously wrong is wrong, then you need help. "They farmed bots and goals/bombs for hours and hours on private servers because they like it! They are just playing the game how they want, so you play the game how you want and don't accuse them of abusing!" Look, I understand how important it is to be tolerant and understanding of other people. I know we should be slow to judge when someone does or likes something different from us. But there's a limit, and that limit is when toleration is used as an excuse to spew stupid crap like this defense of abusers. The simple fact of the matter is that, no they did not enjoy it, they did not abuse because 'that's how they like to play'. If they did, they would have played that like before the prestige system, and they would be playing like that now. But they didn't and they don't. They did it to abuse the system and farm their badges, and that's that. "It's not fair that someone else has way more time to play and gets a much higher prestige ranking than me! He's no better at the game than me, he doesn't deserve a higher rank, but the only way I can keep up is to abuse!" Well actually, if he spends more time playing the game, he deserves a higher prestige rank than you, sorry. The developers of a game have a right to reward people who spend more time playing. That's what developers of games want, you know. They want people playing their games. Maybe you have no chance to rank up faster than someone who spends 14 hours a day on the game when you can't devote that much time. Maybe then you should be glad you have better ways to spend 14 hours a day and just get whatever rank you can get with the time you have. It'll be lower than some peoples, and it'll be higher than other peoples. You do not have a right to the highest rank in the game. Deal with it. So, then. Abusing is wrong because it breaks the purpose of the prestige system. By abusing you have disrespected the game, you have disrespected the community, and you have disrespected the developers. Your excuses and defenses are weak and pathetic. You should apologise publicly and try to get Karlam to roll your experience back and do it over properly. *I was gonna end it there, but I thought of something more to say. Should have put this at the beginning but whatever. Here it is: I don't have a personal investment in fighting abusers. I have absolutely no hope of reaching ace10 anytime soon. I'm not getting worked up because I thought I was going to get there first and someone else did. It's nothing like that. It's just that abusers are wrong, and their attitudes are revolting, and I wanted to point that out. |
#73
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I'm sorry but I see one major flaw that is far too spreaded here. Let me break it that way, you will be spending hundred hours for an icon. An icon. Nothing more.
Prestige rank does not equal skill in any way, shape or form. Read this last sentence as much as needed. Prestige is only equal to your time spent on the game. And as with any games, there is only so much time can do. Someone with 100 hours of gameplay might well be better than someone with 500. And it's already the case on the servers right now, some people smart enough to not farm are better than legit rank 3. Thinking that spending hundred hours doing the exact same thing is skill is just delusional. Have you ever heard of chinese farmer ? Well by running for ranks you are one of them, except you are not even paid. This is just pure farming. It's a bad idea for so many reasons but here are two : First, players don't need something to "work" towards, because it's a game, something to have fun with, not a daily chore, and it should stay that way. If people are quitting, maybe you should work on content, your balance or your graphics, not on artificial rinse and repeat farming. Second and most importantly, by resetting all planes and perks, it just hurts the diversity of the gameplay on the servers, not to speak of tournaments. I believe this game is balanced around all these planes and perks, which you only have at level 60, yet the devs want to throw all that by the window by resetting everything, not only once but 10 times ? This is just destroying your own gameplay. Sorry if this comes strong but this is really a bad design, if you couldn't tell by all the unnecessary drama surrounding it. As I said, I really like this game but this idea just hurts the gameplay more than it does any good. |
#74
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You really think anybody believes prestige == skill? I think you're the delusional one here, bro. Oh and uhm, abusing to rank #10 in a day is now officially smart? I guess that's one way to look at it.
It's also pretty retarded. P.S. Icons are cool. |
#75
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I generally prefer to stay out of drama and all but seeing as how people are complaining about bans and I own 1/3rd of admin control on ladders, figured I'd give my stance here.
Honestly, I don't care about these prestige icons. They're cool, but I don't have the time to worry about getting them, and could give less of a crap if several people abused their way to get them (I just think it's dumb). But there are tons of people who have been wanting these prestige icons for a very long time, and lots of people who spent many long hours in getting them legitly and deservedly. These icons were made by the developers to reward those who put in the time to get them, and to abuse your way to the top is a slap in the face to both these people and the developers. To ban these people from servers whose purpose is somewhat unrelated (ladder rankings as opposed to prestige icons) might be going overboard, sure, but it is a natural result of community outrage at the abusers, and is what little justice we can enforce. If the community at large feels like this decision is out of hand, they will slowly move away from using maimer's and the proleague servers as a ways of showing their sympathy to the rank farmers. However, I reckon that the community at large will more likely stand on the side with those who regard the abusers as a detriment to the community. |
#76
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@eth: Maybe you should try to read before responding.
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And don't play the "Oh I just want the icon" card with me, people are getting all mad over this, people are actually banned over this; so you are telling me that in this same thread, YOU are complaining about people having another icon than you ? So yeah I think it's proof enough it's touching a skill nerve somewhere. Finally, did I ever say cheating it was smart ? I believe it still involves farming and any farming is stupid. I was talking about smart people staying the original level 60, which unfortunately I was not. |
#77
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#78
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Sunaku, your claim that time played is unrelated to skill is flawed. All the best players in the game have played a lot. Do you really think the most skilled players had that skill right when they started? Or that they had it after, say, 100 hours played, and since then they haven't gotten any better? The most skilled players got to be the most skilled by playing a lot.
Of course time played does not equal skill. There's talent and natural ability to account for. Not everyone who plays that much is skilled, and not everyone who is skilled has played that much. But if you don't believe there is a correlation, you are simply wrong. People with >1000 hours played are generally better than people with <500 hours played, and that's a fact. You'll notice, by the way, that I phrased that quotation very carefully. I quite specifically did not say "people can wear whatever prestige badge they've earned as an indicator of their Altitude skills". See the difference? The one that I didn't write says prestige = skills. The one that I did write says prestige=time played, which will tend to increase skills. |
#79
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All this debate is going nowhere.
If there's a problem with the game, the solution is a new patch and, in case, a rollback. I understand your point of view, but you can't expect ppl to stop doing it just because you think it's dumb and morally wrong. Anyway, thanks GGQ for the post (not the "die in a fire", the other one). You well explained yourself in a clear and calm way. |
#80
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Why is it a worthwhile endeavor for you? Is it really just that you want the little symbol by your name? What about the things I pointed out? What's your response? What's your justification? |
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