Introducing: Official Ladder Administration Thread

[mikesol]

It seems like everyone is over-reacting but hey it's the internet and people do that.

@CCC - SSD's first comments towards you come across like joking to me. It's unfortunate that you took them as an actual threat. As much as people might complain - admins do try and ban people fairly. Banning an entire clan for the mistakes of one or two players does not happen. Look at RiBz or whatever that team was. Despite the fact most of them are horrific players who troll and leave games - we don't ban them until they break a rule.

Also - we try to avoid banning players for raging as nearly everyone does that and ladder would be devoid of 75% of the population. If you have a problem with a particular player feel free to mute them. Dragon calling you a fag was unclassy and disrespectful - he's not an admin so there's nothing you need to listen to him for. Right click on his name and press mute. Similarly, if you wanted to mute SSD you could do that as well - although if there is something serious going on you might not hear his warnings.


@Nol - Once again I must reiterate that admins don't ban people from entire clans because of one player. SSD was clearly joking imo. It is not uncommon for admins to joke around about banning other admins or entire teams. The key thing to remember is IT DOESN'T HAPPEN. Your whole team was not banned for you leaving. You were only banned for 3 days (which is quite a reasonable first offense punishment. You'll be banned more if you keep breaking the rules).

With that being said - SSD's comments to you in official 1 were rude and disrespectful towards you. However, keep in mind that there was a backstory here. You clearly were in the wrong when you left and when you proceeded to say "I'll leave when I want" etc etc you were not showing respect to SSD as an admin. By now most players should understand the rules of ladder. It is really not complicated. Leaving in the middle of a game will not only get you banned but get most players to rage at you - especially if it costs them the game.

Basically - the complaints against SSD would be taken more seriously if you didn't rage at him / disrespect him / disrespect other players in ladder / break the rules. If SSD continues to harass you without any provocation on your part then the admins will look into this case more. Until then please try and remember the rules of ladder and realize that being disrespectful towards admins is not the appropriate path to take.

I'd point you to this post to see an appropriate way to deal with the admins.

[Stormich]

Originally Posted by saturday

sry guys i really had to go im not kidding i had no idea u would make such a big deal out of it

What people don't realize is this is not 1v1 where you and only you alone lose points for leaving. Everyone on your team losses points (provided you lose), and is disrespectful to everyone in the game, your side and the other side who has to spec a player for your leaving.

[the bat]

Originally Posted by sunshineduck

are you suggesting that every time I make a joke I specifically mark it off as a joke?

yea dude, that's quite common in the textual internet cause there is nothing like a changed voice or something. You ever heard about that wonderful smileys? People usually mark things with winking smileys if they want to mark something as a joke that sounds a bit too serious for a joke.

The problem ist that you didn't want me to consider it as a joke. You just want to provoke me. You start it over and over again. The next day you insult on Nol and tell him the same story. It is totally clear that at no point you wanted any of us to regard it as a joke.

and your friend requests likely have not been going through because I have you muted in game.

Sad excuse. You even responded to my messages these times.

there's really nothing you have to say to me that could be deemed in any way constructive.

That is telling a lot about your attitude.

Everytime you dislike someone you keep harassing that person for no reasons and if they try to talk to you you just ignore em? You have no interest in settling anything. Does your hate give you any satisfaction?

You don't know me and in real life you wouldn't even dare to act in such a manner to anyone.

[Nol]

Mikesol, thanks for taking time to read and for your answer which is the one that make sense. Be sure I consider all the work people is doing around ladder as great stuff. I thank them for the time they take to give us such nice moments playing on ladder - SSD included. I also try humbly to contribute with some servers I put online. I'm wrong when I leave during a game, it's ok. I took SSD provocation (or humour, but it was not imho) at the 1st degree and left as a reply - as I said, my clan told me I wasn't late, so I could have stayed till the end of the game. I'm really sorry for all the other players who, as you said, have lost their game. But the purpose of the post was to focus on admin behaviour who sometimes abuse of their power. Again, SSD told me he was about to kick the whole CCC clan (which is not a clan, just a group of friends). I don't think he wanted me to consider it as a joke and I didn't take it as a joke. But it's ok. I'll consider his work for ladder as more important than this disagreement and forget it. Thanks again for your response.

[nobodyhome]

Originally Posted by Nol

Mikesol, thanks for taking time to read and for your answer which is the one that make sense. Be sure I consider all the work people is doing around ladder as great stuff. I thank them for the time they take to give us such nice moments playing on ladder - SSD included. I also try humbly to contribute with some servers I put online. I'm wrong when I leave during a game, it's ok. I took SSD provocation (or humour, but it was not imho) at the 1st degree and left as a reply - as I said, my clan told me I wasn't late, so I could have stayed till the end of the game. I'm really sorry for all the other players who, as you said, have lost their game. But the purpose of the post was to focus on admin behaviour who sometimes abuse of their power. Again, SSD told me he was about to kick the whole CCC clan (which is not a clan, just a group of friends). I don't think he wanted me to consider it as a joke and I didn't take it as a joke. But it's ok. I'll consider his work for ladder as more important than this disagreement and forget it. Thanks again for your response.

If the focus of your post was to focus on admin behavior--then I can easily say that in this case there was absolutely no admin abuse. The only thing that SSD did in his role as an admin was to ban you for three days, and given the circumstances (you knowingly broke a rule and was defiant in doing so) three days is extremely light.

None of what SSD said has anything to do with his role as an admin. Pretty sure that as soon as you decided to leave, SSD already decided to ban you, and any words exchanged afterwords (including the "threat" to ban all your clanmates) were just an afterthought. We generally consider "admin action" to consist of the act of banning and nothing else--speech is not part of it. In general, non-admins and admins joke all the time about banning and there is usually nothing meant.

Keep in mind also that "abuse" can only be defined in terms of the guidelines and the precedents that ladder admins have set in the past. The ladder servers are run privately and that means that we can do anything we want, including banning random people at odd times indiscriminately. The concept of "abuse" only arises because we have chosen to adhere to a set of guidelines that we have defined ourselves as a matter of courtesy to the ladder population. Not only that, but we are the only servers in all of altitude to do so and publish these guidelines openly. If you go to other servers you will find that you will generally be treated far worse there, including being yelled at and banned for no reasons by admins.

[Nol]

Originally Posted by nobodyhome

If the focus of your post was to focus on admin behavior--then I can easily say that in this case there was absolutely no admin abuse.

That's your opinion, probably as a friend of SSD

Originally Posted by nobodyhome

The only thing that SSD did in his role as an admin was to ban you for three days, and given the circumstances (you knowingly broke a rule and was defiant in doing so.

I'm ok with that.

Originally Posted by nobodyhome

None of what SSD said has anything to do with his role as an admin.

Easy, when you threaten or insult, you're no more an admin ?

Originally Posted by nobodyhome

Pretty sure that as soon as you decided to leave, SSD already decided to ban you, and any words exchanged afterwords (including the "threat" to ban all your clanmates) were just an afterthought.

Great rethoric : so I should not have taken his words as a reason to get pissed because those were afterthought ?

Originally Posted by nobodyhome

We generally consider "admin action" to consist of the act of banning and nothing else--speech is not part of it.

I don't think so. As an admin, you have a kind of responsability towards Altitude community, even on a private one. Acting like that is deserving the game.

Originally Posted by nobodyhome

In general, non-admins and admins joke all the time about banning and there is usually nothing meant.

Hmm, or is it a way to mean "I'm the boss, I do whatever I want even if it has no justification" ?

Originally Posted by nobodyhome

The ladder servers are run privately and that means that we can do anything we want, including banning random people at odd times indiscriminately.

Nice, as I said before, you deserve the game. Do you know the meaning of fair-play ?

Originally Posted by nobodyhome

If you go to other servers you will find that you will generally be treated far worse there, including being yelled at and banned for no reasons by admins.

Not on mines, sorry.

Thanks again for this interesting contribution. We are learning a lot about Ladder admins consideration about altitude community of players.

[sunshineduck]

you may recall from the chat log that you yourself posted that you said you would "leave if you want" before I mock-threatened to permaban your entire clan. it's pretty obvious just from the chat log that you neither bothered to read the rules before joining nor played enough ladder to really have an accurate read on admin behavior.

anyone that has played a meaningful amount of games with me (even panic the pig) knows that I am only serious approximately 5% of the time in ladder, and 0% of the time in public servers. it's perfectly acceptable that you did not at first understand my intentions when I joked about permabanning your entire team if you left. what dumbfounds me is that you and panic the pig continue to insist that I had some sort of vendetta against you despite the fact that I only banned you for the generally accepted minimum ban length for leaving mid-game and did not actually follow through with my faux threats of permabanning anyone as well as numerous people in this very thread telling you that I was not being serious.

I do my very best to avoid insulting players within ladder, and I don't think I've ever actually followed through with a threat of a ban seeing as all those threats are always jokes. when faced with a situation that involves someone actually breaking rules, I typically say nothing, ban, and then deal with the aftermath in private later. whenever I am in pub servers I do my very best to get all my trolling done so I can do my business as a ladder admin as professionally as can be possible in a 2d airplain chuter. my assault upon you in official 1 was approximately 90% me being a grumpy old troll and 10% me being legitimately ticked off at you for disrespecting everyone playing ladder at the time you decided to peace out and play in your scrim that you just said you weren't even in a rush to make.

that's actually what pisses me off the most - you didn't even have to leave, but you did anyways just to spite me and everyone else that was telling you to stay so they could play a fun and competitive 5v5 match. you figuratively spit in the face of the entire ladder administration and the premise of ladder, and at the risk of seeming like an extremely biased bigot I fully plan to extend your ban as soon as I can get ahold of one of my "superiors" and figure out an acceptable length.

thanks for playing.

[Nol]

Originally Posted by sunshineduck

you didn't even have to leave, but you did anyways just to spite me and everyone else

No no, just you, I said I was sorry to everyone else.

Originally Posted by sunshineduck

you figuratively spit in the face of the entire ladder administration

No, just you, shall I repeat ??? They lost their game, but it wasn't my intention to do what you call "spit in their face". You did a provocation, I reacted. You could have told me "Nol, if you leave I will have to ban you, that's the rule". In that way, you were applying the rules. But you said : "if you leave i permaban everyone in UD and CCC", which is abusing your role as an admin and not acceptable for me.

Originally Posted by sunshineduck

I fully plan to extend your ban as soon as I can get ahold of one of my "superiors" and figure out an acceptable length.

I know you can do it. Well, to end this I just admit I was wrong when I left, so ban me for a month or a year if you wish. It won't change my opinion about you as an admin who sometimes goes beyond the limit of its status, even if I appreciate your work in ladder map project etc.

Originally Posted by sunshineduck

thanks for playing.

Really ? Merry Xmas, and see you.

This is my last post about this disagreement.

[nobodyhome]

You don't get it. My last post was not posed as an argument--it is a statement of the fact of how things are. The ladder administration system has evolved over a period of a whole year to basically reflect the community's wishes on how it should be run. If our ladder admin team believes that SSD's way of handling your issue is acceptable, it is largely because the Altitude community itself believes so, as evidenced by the variety of people that have posted in the last page in agreement (this group includes both admins and non-admins, trollishly-inclined people as well as serious-minded people, and some people who have even been banned for up to a month themselves). If you disagree with the way things are run, then you are disagreeing with the community at large and not just the admin team. The community has largely decided that some level of trolling is not only acceptable, but is part of the fun, and although I can see why some might find this distasteful, if you want to be part of the community then you should probably try to learn to tolerate it.

Originally Posted by Nol

Not on mines, sorry.

That's because your server has no traffic. Try to have continuous games played for a full third of the year for an entire year (the front page of altitudeladder.net indicate that as of the time of this message, there has been 127 days, 9 hours, and 47 minutes of game time on ladder not including idle lobby time, each game consisting of at least 10 players at full attention), each game raised to a competitive level far above your average pub, with the naturally resulting heated exchanges and arguments happening daily, and you will see that it becomes much harder to maintain standards while keeping your playerbase happy.

[mikesol]

Nol -

I believe your emotions are getting the better of you and that have changed from a potentially legitimate post trying to understand what is going on, into a rage post. You don't appear to be listening to what people are saying and are taking everything as an insult or attack.

I'm not sure how clearer we can make this but: SSD was joking. It is most unfortunate you took it as an attack or as an admin abusing their power. Perhaps there is a language barrier or something? You have presented your case and we have listened to what you said. We've concluded that SSD's threat to ban your entire team was not as offensive as you seem to think it is. While we try to strive to be the best we can be - sometimes certain players disagree with the way we run our servers. I appreciate your report into this but let's please stop raging and saying "nou" after all of these posts. People here are trying to show you respect and the rage responses at some of these posts is unnecessary.

There are better ways to handle issues with admins - like the post I highlighted in my last post

[Nol]

It's Ok Mikesol, this is behind. I'm not raging. Sorry if it looks like I'm. I said that was my last post so pls, don't come back with this history.

Tks and merry Christmas

[sky]

pieface i was on mumble and said i had to pee i came back to my computer and i was logged off of the server i rejoined and it was fine it was like 20 seconds i dont understand this. its rediculous people were sitting like crazy and leaving and i leave for 20 seconds to go to the bathroom??? i have been trying really hard not to do any ffences lately in ladder, and i havent. I said I have to pee i get kicked from server come back 20 seconds later and it was fine..

[Greekjr14]

Originally Posted by sky

pieface i was on mumble and said i had to pee i came back to my computer and i was logged off of the server i rejoined and it was fine it was like 20 seconds i dont understand this. its rediculous people were sitting like crazy and leaving and i leave for 20 seconds to go to the bathroom??? i have been trying really hard not to do any ffences lately in ladder, and i havent. I said I have to pee i get kicked from server come back 20 seconds later and it was fine..

I was on mumble with ssd when he said this. Even after you got afk'ed from the server i typed out in all chat that you were peeing and were coming back.


On a side note, ladder is actually up almost filled up, its a christmas miracle.

[sky]

ok well i get on altitude and 168 day ban! wtf is this. I have witnesses and originally it was a 28 day ban. Im NOT and i repeat am NOT gonna let this slide I'm not gonna sit around for half a year because of nothing, I didn't do anything wrong and then Pieface feels like extending it for another 140 days. This is bull and Im tired of admins banning because they lose, if Pieface would've won $20 says no ban. I'm just letting u all know this ban will be taken back because i have done nothing wrong and im tired of this crap.

[Smushface]

Sound logic, great delivery.

A+

[Stormich]

I don't know exactly what happened, but if a ban was warranted I'd have made it a perma. You have 8 previous bans, the most out of any player of ladder.

[Pieface]

If you don't see why leaving to go to the bathroom during a game warrants a ban then I don't really have any argument to make. This is your 9th offense (the most of any player in the game), hence the length. You're lucky to have not gotten perma'd by now.

Whether or not I ban people has nothing whatsoever to do with whether I win or lose the game. Saying I banned you subjectively because I lost rating points in a cartoon plain chuter is actually kind of insulting.

[sky]

this is ridiculous so your not aloud to leave for 20 seconds because you have to go to the bathroom in 20 minutes games...

[Evan20000]

This is simply reverse potty training.

[[Y]]

Originally Posted by Evan20000

This is simply reverse potty training.

You slut I almost chocked on my water reading that >:C

[andy]

I bet 20$ your ban would have been slightly lower if you hadnt just raged at all admins.. and maybe acted like you were sorry about leaving etc.. not like you have the right to leave mid game but i see it wasnt for much. Maybe try and discuss it in a more polite way and maybe they will reduce it (not so sure about it but you could try).

[sky]

thank you andy, im sorry I seemed angry I really wasnt until I found the 148 day ban, i apologize if i sounded mad.

[Jrathje]

Originally Posted by sky

I'm just letting u all know this ban will be taken back because i have done nothing wrong and im tired of this crap.

Damn admins, he sounds perty srs. You better remove his ban for sure.

But seriously though dude, a ladder game takes what - 5, 10, 15 minutes at most? Are you really that young that you can't hold it for 10 minutes?

[CCN]

Originally Posted by Jrathje

Damn admins, he sounds perty srs. You better remove his ban for sure.

But seriously though dude, a ladder game takes what - 5, 10, 15 minutes at most? Are you really that young that you can't hold it for 10 minutes?

he is young.

[JDR]

god i love this thread

[Pieface]

Sky, I ended up reducing your ban since the only thing unusual about your situation was that you told me where you had been after coming back. I don't normally ban people for speccing midgame, so it's been reduced from 6 months to 3 weeks.

Understand that any future misbehavior (even if it's repeatedly speccing) will probably end with a very long ban or a perma.

[ryebone]

Originally Posted by Pieface

Understand that any future misbehavior (even if it's repeatedly speccing) will end with a perma.

Fixed for you.

[wolf'j'max]

this explains right?

[Jrathje]

Originally Posted by wolf'j'max

this explains right?

Some context is always good.

[wolf'j'max]

Originally Posted by Jrathje

Some context is always good.

Anon Ymous left mid game. Screeny in prev post.

[Jayfourke]

Albino Penetrator bans people for no reason. Trufax.

No screencaps, cos I forgot. Yay admin abuse.

[Stormich]

[21:59] [UD]Jayfourke: no.
[21:59] [BBQ] Yarode: jake gtfo
[21:59] [BBQ] Yarode: spec
[21:59] [UD]Jayfourke: 5v5 means a decent number of people can actually play -> raging about playing 3v3 (2 people dropped for a minute or 2)
[21:59] [BBQ] Yarode: spec chat
[21:59] [UD]Jayfourke: this is just daft.
[21:59] (||)ex: nw
[21:59] [UD]Jayfourke: piss off yarode.
[22:00] [BBQ] Yarode: LOL
[22:00] [BBQ] Yarode: whoever killed me
[22:00] [BBQ] Yarode: n1
[22:00] FreeNipel: IS PRO
[22:00] [Team] [FRO]&sunshineduck&: jayfourke spec chat plz
[22:00] XX2: y ty wolf
[22:00] [Team] [UD]Jayfourke: back off.

You were permabanned before, don't know who removed it. You come into ladder and randomly start being a prick. I should have just put back the perma, but I decided to give you 2 minutes.

[Jayfourke]

No randomness. It's a continuous thing.

And you missed out the bit where I was actually replying to someone in game. But whatever.

[Stormich]

When people ask you to spec chat, you spec chat. You were asked 2x and were being a dick about it.

8) Spectators not using team-chat after being asked to. All-chat is fine until someone asks them to team-chat.

[Jayfourke]

Eh, fair enough.

That being said, I don't recall being permabanned at any point. I didn't know you considered me such a collosal twat.

Not sure whether to feel gratified or like an idiot there. Heh.

[Stormich]

Originally Posted by Jayfourke

Eh, fair enough.

That being said, I don't recall being permabanned at any point. I didn't know you considered me such a collosal twat.

Not sure whether to feel gratified or like an idiot there. Heh.

We have a list, I just saw you there. I don't consider you a twat though your lag can be annoying :P

[elxir]

hey i lost internet earlier today right as a ladder vote was passed

dunno if i was actually in the game or not but sorry if i was and obviously wasn't there

[Premier Stalin]

the game was ended straight away i think its ok

[sunshineduck]

Originally Posted by elxir

hey i lost internet earlier today right as a ladder vote was passed

dunno if i was actually in the game or not but sorry if i was and obviously wasn't there

ya i custom stopped it right after i realized you had dc'd

nbd

[Danielle]

Saw lam smurfing in ladder yesterday.
Ban.