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#1961
01-12-2013, 04:21 AM
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I actually discussed this with Kennedy in-game, hence the lack of presence so-far. It was apparent from me and multiple players on both teams that Kennedy had the opportunity to dunk or pass to 3V for an easy, wide open goal, yet decided to do a 360 in front of it, at which point Apa came in and no goal was scored.
By my definition and other admins, that is showboating. 
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#1962
01-12-2013, 05:11 AM
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Soccer, that's just not true. I did not attempt a 360. My plane was facing upwards, tilted towards but not in to the goal when the ball bounced off of the sidepost to me.
At this point I should have turned left and shot into the goal, but instead I turned right, hoping to pass it off to a swooping teammate or complete the turn and then shoot. I was about level with the sidepost, so I couldn't just dunk or I'd bounce off it too. It was a mistake. Not showboat.
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#1963
01-12-2013, 05:34 AM
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360 no showboat bro
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#1964
01-12-2013, 10:21 PM
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First report of this season, woop woop.
Reporting Jen$ for leaving midgame. f9f6e49d-bdd2-476d-8a93-dba28067a1ab http://www.altitudeladder.com/match....&mode=ball_6v6 -J
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#1965
01-13-2013, 12:01 AM
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Taken care of
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#1967
01-14-2013, 01:07 AM
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taken care of
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#1969
01-17-2013, 02:40 AM
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Taken care of
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#1970
01-17-2013, 08:32 AM
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just to be clear calling a vote to stop any neutral map is still not a bannable offense right
(this isn't a question i'm still going to do it)
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#1971
01-17-2013, 10:49 AM
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Calling the vote at the beginning of the game as a current player - No, not bannable.
Calling the vote repeatedly as a player OR calling it just as other team is pushing towards your base OR calling it to otherwise annoy your team, the spectators, or the other team OR calling it frivolously for no real reason - Ban under Rule 5 or Rule 12 Calling the vote at any time as a spectator - Ban under Rule 5
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#1972
01-17-2013, 01:33 PM
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So solq voted custom stop at the start of the map because it was the second ball_snow we played in a row.
The vote was in this game: http://www.altitudeladder.com/match....&mode=ball_6v6 which was played right after the http://www.altitudeladder.com/match....&mode=ball_6v6 game. You can see from screenie that solq was playing with void and tc and they played aggainst balln. (pic is misleading) So, according to soccer, that shouldn't be bannable. -J
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#1973
01-17-2013, 02:57 PM
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Huh....
Well that map is ball_labyrinth, not snow that is being played. Regardless, I appreciate the clarification on this J. Balln, if this is incorrect, let me know.
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#1974
01-17-2013, 03:18 PM
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Oh, and here is my chatlog:
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#1975
01-17-2013, 03:28 PM
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Ah, gotcha, that makes sense now.
Balln: That's not ban worthy, especially considering it happened at the beginning or start of the map. No ban issued; this case is closed. 
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#1976
01-17-2013, 08:28 PM
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Hey, is there a way to add average total goals per match, left team avg goals, and right team avg goals, to this page (for every map ofc)?
tx luv ps and maybe avg expected left team win % Last edited by elixirwithani; 01-17-2013 at 08:32 PM.
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#1977
01-18-2013, 04:28 AM
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#1978
01-18-2013, 12:59 PM
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Oyster, your ban on December 15th, 2012 was for spectating without reason and was a 10-day ban, not 20-day ban. In theory it should have actually been closer to 20+ days, as this was your 4th ban, and your prior ban was less than a month prior. If you were spectating for less than a minute, I'm usually not the type of admin that will ban for something like that. If you're spectating for an abnormally long time (where half or more of the game is played without you), yes, you'll be getting banned for that. The easiest way to prevent from getting banned if you have to spectate? Let your team, the other team, and the admins know why. "brb have to get phone," "need 2 spec, door," or "g2g kid sick" are perfectly excusable reasons for spectating. Trust me, I know that people have lives outside of altitude. I know things always happen to come up not when you got triple specced, but when you've just started a game on your favorite map. However, despite this, you failed to not only let me, your team, and the other team know why you were spectating, you even failed to let me know the reason post-match at any time. Not once during your 10-day ban did you PM me here on the forums, in Altitude, or even post to the Ladder Admin Thread (this one) disputing your ban. So the only thing I can do at that point is assume you accepted your ban because you knew you were in the wrong and should have said something OR that your speccing was for something non-excusable like you wanted to watch a kitten spin on a turntable on YouTube. Regarding your second ban I banned you on January 11th, 2013 for 21 days for constant disconnection with high ping. This was your 5th offense, 3rd in less than 2 months. You were warned about joining with high ping and yet decided to play another game anyway. If you choose to do that, that's fine. But if you're getting ping kicked in yet another game, especially after a warning, you're going to get banned. I fail to see how me banning you after being warned is "cold-hearted." The reason you were banned initially for 3 days is the way that I and some other admins apply our bans in ladder. We (or at least I) do not have the Ban List up on my screen 24/7, nor do I remember how my prior offenses every player has committed. So, the typical order of banning a player is like this: 1) Player commits infraction of rules 2) I remove player from that server for the time being with /ban PlayerName 3 days *reason* This is just a quick way to remove player from server, prevent them from rejoining, and provides them a reason for their ban. 3) I go over to Altitude Ladder or AltBouncer if required to grab their Vapor ID. 4) I go to the Admin Ban List and search for prior offenses both by name and Vapor ID 5) Based on the prior offenses, the severity of the prior offenses, the nature of the prior offenses, and the length of time between prior offenses, I determine ban length. Note that there is no formula of how long (or short) a ban needs to be at any point in the process. I think there are a few ladder admins who ban heavy quickly, and others of us who are a bit lighter. For a 5th offense, there's a good deal of bans >30 days compared to <30 days, as a reference. 6) Now that I've determined actual ban length that is necessary for the player based on all the above criteria, I go back to US and EU ladder servers and /addBan based on the player's VaporID, this time with the correct, determined length and quick reason. So, hopefully this clears up why you were banned for 21 days. This was not an additional ban on top of a 3 day ban for being constantly ping kicked in a game, rather, it was the length I determined was necessary for your ping kick ban based on the visible factors presented. Concluding Thoughts I would like to think that I am a fairly easy and nice person to deal with. On my end, there are very few players that I actually have issues with, so it's disappointing to hear that you feel I hate you when that's far from the case. However, level of friendship (hate, love, or anything in between) does not influence my bans or ban lengths. I'm not out to get you, nor am I "mindlessly banning" you. You have 3 times in the past 2 months clearly violated stated ladder rules in this thread, even doing so after warnings were provided by me and/or other admins. The fact that you continued to pursue actions against the ladder server rules dictates the consequences of your actions. To be frankly honest, I'm not really interested in your emotional defense of "I paid good money for this game therefore I'm entitled to play in this server." Ladder is a private server. Playing in the ladder server is a privilege, not a right, and certainly not an entitlement from purchasing this game. To maintain the environment of ladder, for better or worse, we have a set of rules and a set of admins who enforce them. It's not a perfect process, I'll admit, but it's the one we have. And all of us admins try our best to make the most of the system we're provided. So I'm having a hard time feeling empathy for your situation. This was far from one out-of-control admin on a banning rampage for who knows what reason. You entered into a private server and have violated the rules a total of 5 times so far. The rules are clearly stated. Since you chose multiple times to ignore admins' warnings and break them, you must accept the consequences of your actions. This isn't the admins' fault; it's your's. So if you decide not to return to Altitude Ladder Server after your ban is finished (which is a shame, because you are one of the more visible and interesting members), make no mistake: it was the result of the environment you created for yourself. I'm just there enforcing the rules. It's a shame that from your message that you feel it's necessary to demean, insult, and make inaccurate assumptions about me instead of taking personal responsibility for your actions. Hopefully this (my) response will alter that. But if not, not much else I can do.
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#1979
01-18-2013, 04:06 PM
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Soccer, I understand you understand the rules and that you take your job serious in enforcing them. All i hope for is however that your higher aim is to make ladder games an enjoyable experience for everyone. Like u said the rules are but one and imperfect instrument an admin has to its ability to make ladder servers a nice place play the game. I am sure you have common sense as well, so please use it next to the rules.
In the case of Oyster, who is a respected member of the community and has played tons of ladder games without breaking rules too often you seemed in my opinion a bit harsh in your banning behaviour. You can expect of Oyster that he does not spec to watch a cat on youtube, but has a valid irl reason. Although he indeed breaks the rule. The nice thing to do is to talk with Oyster first before any ban. Moreover, in my opinion, asking for the reason is not adding anything: what do we care whether someone ringed the doorbell and wouldnt it be sooo easy to lie about this anyway. A short apology when returning is far more appropriate. So therefore i suggest to change that rule. If you do change that rule you should unban Pooper who you banned 2 days ago, since he did not give a reason for his speccing during a ladder game, but in fact did apologize.
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#1980
01-18-2013, 04:21 PM
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I think soccer was incredibly fair in his judgement and assessment of the offenses. It is clearly stated in the rules that knowingly playing with high ping (enough to get you ping kicked from the server) or playing and being repeatedly ping kicked to a point where you continue to play are bannable offenses. Oyster broke this rule 2 times in recent months and had one other infraction in which he specced for a prolonged time. In each of these situations, oyster is affecting 11 other players and 1 more than the others based on who sits. Ladder is to achieve a fun, competitive environment which means 6v6 in ball and 5v5 in TBD. In either of this situations when one player is getting ping kicked or specs for long periods of time, he/she is affecting the overall enjoyment of ladder. There are plenty of players who respect this and will stop playing if being ping kicked or respectfully tell the other team that this is coming. It takes 3 seconds to type "brb door", etc. The way we handle ban lengths involves not only the crime but the number of offenses. So repeatedly doing something less harsh such as this will eventually give you fairly harsh sentences. It may seem unfair even if it is truly unintentional, but rules are set in place to try to achieve maximum enjoyment by others, despite the system not being ironed out 100%. But a slap on a wrist tends to teach no one, actual punishments tend to do the trick more.
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#1981
01-18-2013, 04:35 PM
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You keep bringing up the fact that I have had 5 violations. My account was created nearly three years ago. The % of infractions compared to my overall game count has to be less than 1%. Heck, it's probably less than .05%. But never mind any of that. I still am punished as if I had just murdered a man. Quote:
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#1982
01-18-2013, 04:37 PM
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the responsibility doesn't lie with the admin to contact the banned player about why he decided to leave a game, if the player doesn't attempt to appeal in any format then the logical assumption is that the ban was fine and the player is fine with it. from what i can tell, this is the first time oyster has ever contacted socer re: a ban, and in his post he already mentioned that he had been fine with taking the ban that had been given. this, essentially, is an admission of guilt - if you are fine with taking a 3 day ban without appealing, that means that you agree that what you did was wrong. in this particular case, soccer extended the ban due to it being his 5th(?) ban, and to a length that is actually shorter than the normal 5th ban length, especially considering the rate at which they've been accumulating.
an apology, while nice, is not as useful in these matters as an actual reason given for why an event occured. yes, people lie, but there's very little that can be done about that. for the most part we just have to accept what people tell us as the truth, with very rare cases in which we do not. as eloquent as oyster's "appeal" is, his message boils down to "soccer banned me because he hates me", a strategy that is hilarious but doesn't exactly have a strong history in success and also isn't even an apology, which is what you (beefheart) think he should have posted.
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#1983
01-18-2013, 04:39 PM
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To continue, based on the prior number of bans and frequency of bans, as I explained earlier, Oyster's bans were justified, perhaps even less harsh than what they should have been. Again, as I stated, if he had a valid reason, he was more than welcome to share it with me or any other admin. Oyster did not. Because of how ladder operates, it's usually easier to ban first and work out any kinks with it later. So again, I disagree with your philosophy that I have to be nice and check with every single player that breaks the rule and talk with them for 20 minutes first. If a rule is broken, the player suffers the consequences. If it needs to be discussed, I am more than willing to discuss it. And I've already told Stormpooper and you the reason for the ban. You cannot spectate over half a game without prior warning or even giving any of the players a valid reason for such when you return, and expect to be able to continue playing ladder games for a bit. It all ties into the main point that has been brought up in this thread time and time again. The rules are simple. They really aren't that hard to follow. If you break the rules, you get banned. If you keep breaking the rules, you get banned longer. If you don't want to get banned, don't break the rules. It really is that simple. So in my opinion, no, the rules don't need to be changed. The admins shouldn't have to be bending over backwards to placate people who break the rules; people should just learn how to follow them. It really isn't that difficult, I know so because there are people who have been playing for all six seasons and have still not been on the ban lists yet.
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#1984
01-18-2013, 04:56 PM
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Also, just because it's the holidays doesn't mean you get a free pass to break rules. That applies to all players. Quote:
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Why did you think you could continue playing without any risk of being banned if I already said something to you? If that's considering "rushing for the banstick," then I feel really bad for some of the other admins in ladder. Quote:
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If I'm not there, then it's up to other admins to monitor. If no admins are there, then it's up to players like you to report it here in the forum. If no one does that, then it's not the admins' fault when players continuously play with bad connections. Quote:
Last edited by soccernamlak; 01-18-2013 at 05:01 PM.
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#1986
01-18-2013, 06:20 PM
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The punishment does not fit the crime. Free Oyster 2013~
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#1987
01-18-2013, 06:42 PM
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if you are not trying to appeal anything then why are we having this conversation?
by my estimations, there have been over 750 different players that have played in ladder since its inception. out of those 750, not even 25 of them have 5 or more bans. over half of those elite few have been permabanned. literally hundreds of players have played more games than you and have much fewer bans. do you seriously think this is because the admins hate you?
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#1988
01-18-2013, 07:52 PM
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That's like saying, "I didn't commit that robbery, but I'm going to remain quiet. Oh by the way, I'm refusing free legal counsel as well." Have you ever considered that half of this would have been avoided if you would have just posted on here, "Hey soccer and other admins, I know I left mid-game a few days ago. I had an emergency and didn't have time to explain. I do apologize, and would appreciate it if you could reconsider my ban." I guarantee it that your ban would have been gone in under 24 hours, no issue. Instead, you say nothing. Then have the nerve to complain about it now, a month and an additional ban later? Quote:
2011/07/03 2012/05/25 2012/11/16 2012/12/15 2013/01/11 Our point was that with this last ban, it was your third in less than 2 months. That gets taken into consideration (along with total number of bans) when issuing a ban length for an infraction. Quote:
I'm sure your teammates and opponents appreciate it. Quote:
Maybe instead of bitching at me because of something that you did, next time consider treating me like a fellow human being and saying that you have an issue with a ban when it actually occurs, not a month after the fact. Or even attempting to PM me at some point in game or on the forums. You might be surprised at how the outcome of this situation would have changed.
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#1989
01-18-2013, 08:36 PM
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It is my humble opinion that banning people for "minor" infractions without warning does not promote a better atmosphere but in fact produces the opposite. People respond to a warning, and if they don't then ban. If you have to warn then about a similar subject repeatedly then ban, but don't ban someone for a ping kick in which they shortly join again when there was no real warning, for saying 1-2 things minutes after a spec chat without a warning, for "throwing" when someone simply isn't good at the plane they were playing but was trying, etc.
I also believe that if people were placed under the current admin situation for the past 5 years there would be well more than 25 people who had 5 or more bans. I strongly think that the old strategy that Guava abided by was a much more fair practice that didn't lead to people feeling alienated for small slips against the ban rule book.
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#1990
01-19-2013, 12:03 AM
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Balln you may be right about the number 25, but out of the overall number I still think that the number is not much higher than that. Our ban lists are kept tallied (assuming the admins keep updating the list) so it is pretty easy to track overall numbers of bans. Also, soccer and oyster both say that a warning was given, and overall warnings are given out more than they aren't. The only time warnings are not given is for more severe acts. Soccer stating that warnings are not necessary does not mean he or other admins don't give them. We do, it is out of respect and trying to give better judgement towards the people who do screw up. If you look at the people who complain and act rash towards the admins and the system overall most are fellow perpetrators who think the system is corrupt because they screwed up. Seriously as soccer has already mentioned, the rules are so easy not to break. Ladder rules could be a lot stricter imo. There are players as soccer has said that have less than 5 bans, well there are people who have literally played 1000's of games without one single ban (small or large) that is because they have a good head, respect the other players, and don't play when they know they can't. I think soccer has done everything that a ladder admin should do, and I would have done the same under the circumstances as I understand (probably longer punishments to be honest).
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#1992
01-19-2013, 04:40 AM
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#1993
01-19-2013, 05:22 AM
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for ****'s sake stop losing your **** over bans people. if you're not perma'd, you can come back to ladder whenever you're unbanned. the admins are trying their hardest to be impartial and do their job. they have reasons for all their bans, just give them a ****ing break. i don't even care if you're wrongfully banned, if you lose your **** and go off on massive rants that even i can't take the time to read and laugh at just because you got banned from what? 6 servers? you need to grow up.
i just want to say thank you to all of the ladder admins. i don't know how you have the patience to type up these posts all the time and deal with people. thanks tho  p.s. if you're not a ladder admin, i will not read your response to this post if it's anything over like 5 sentences. tread lightly.
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#1997
01-19-2013, 10:17 AM
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#1998
01-19-2013, 11:20 AM
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I broke the rules and i accept my ban even if i didnt do it on purpose (
 )but i have a question, are anonymous reports allowed or it is mandatory to publish them in the forum?
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#1999
01-19-2013, 01:46 PM
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Don, you can feel free to pm an admin with proof, if you feel like anonymity is what you want.
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#2000
01-19-2013, 05:41 PM
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but, seriously, thank you to all the admins, for doing the community a favor. tl;dr for ssd and strato: ladder community needs to grow up and appreciate things Last edited by leggomyeggo; 01-19-2013 at 07:03 PM.
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