Patch: January 19th, new skins, control tweaks, bug fixes

[[Y]]

Originally Posted by Snail

ah great, an even shorter acceleration line you say? sounds like even worse news then this automatic mouse BS.

look, i get that im the minority here. but im not asking for superpowers, all im asking is let everyone play the game the way they want to, dont force solutions that dont fit everyone down everyones throat. its not like me having to manually move my mouse will make a great imbalance or something.

and yes, ive been trying to play with this new system, and it severely sucks for me.

As opposed to no acceleration line at all?

Was that even supposed to be a reply to my post? Because it seems you just quoted it and then posted some more angry words at the new update. I have no doubt everyone (including the devs) has seen your posts. No need to reiterate you desire for the option to turn off the "new fancy automatic system".

edit: you're talking about mouse+kb, not mouse-only, right?

[lamster]

Mouse control orientation adjustment on Miranda Reverse was an often-requested feature by very new players. After experimenting with it a bit myself I can't decide which way I prefer. My hope was that this patch would help us figure out whether reorient-on-reverse should be the default control setting (Miranda mouse users -- please post your feedback once you've had some time to try it). The next patch will include an option to switch between the old (cursor unaffected by reverse) and new (reorient on reverse) Miranda-Reverse-Mouse behavior.

[mlopes]

Shouldn't the Santa Hat be a different color than those of both teams? I found myself firing against teammates when I was playing against a red team, and let enemies pass when I was red. All cause the Santa Hat made me think they were on the red team, and they weren't. Also it makes it harder to identify the plane quickly.

I think in the new snow it's easier to tell the background from the foreground, but I was a bigger fan of the Tux on center than I am of that snow man.

[sunshineduck]

Originally Posted by lamster

New JSON server log entry type:"roundEnd" -- includes end of round stats and award winners

yay, more stuff for nobo to code into ladder season 2!

[Premier Stalin]

Originally Posted by Snail

yeah stalin, and us, disabled people with just two fingers, can not use the keyboard for gaming, so mouse is the only choice. block keyboard controls!

just block anything that YOU PERSONALLY dont own or like, and make all players use the same model of the laptop. preferrable the one Mr Stalin owns, so its fair. prohibit key remapping, too.
thats the way to make the game fun for EVERYONE.

your name, while being originally ment ironically, justifies your cause.

Snail, plz read wat i wrote again, i dont think english is ur first language, as u clearly were not aware of "sarcam", generally wherin people say dumb things, to illustrate in a mocking tone, how the original idea/statement was dumb. hence in this case, I was saying ur idea of just making mouse easier, was dumb. So plz dotn be stupid in the future. kthn.

[What]

Originally Posted by lamster

Mouse control orientation adjustment on Miranda Reverse was an often-requested feature by very new players. After experimenting with it a bit myself I can't decide which way I prefer. My hope was that this patch would help us figure out whether reorient-on-reverse should be the default control setting (Miranda mouse users -- please post your feedback once you've had some time to try it). The next patch will include an option to switch between the old (cursor unaffected by reverse) and new (reorient on reverse) Miranda-Reverse-Mouse behavior.

Make options for each cursor-reorient feature please, not just the Miranda. Cursor-mouse relation is extremely important to high-sensitivity mouse users.

[Premier Stalin]

Originally Posted by What

Make options for each cursor-reorient feature please, not just the Miranda. Cursor-mouse relation is extremely important to high-sensitivity mouse users.

And also makes thermo completely useless.

[Urpee]

First impressions of mouse+keyboard now: Overall it's fine.

Only suggestion I'd have is to add a pixel of black shadow to the cross-hairs for extra contrast. Now it is possible to lose sight of the cursor if there is lots of red going on.

As for randa rev, it's hard to tell. It actually plays better than I thought but I'd take quite a bit of play if the drift is troubling.

[peww]

why not just put the mouse crosshair in a fixed arc? that'll resolve the issues of not knowing where the mouse is AND also takes away the mouse advantage of aiming long distance shots easier than keyboard users.

also, is it just me or is there no way to change the mouse sensitivity in-game?

[Snail]

Originally Posted by lamster

The next patch will include an option to switch between the old (cursor unaffected by reverse) and new (reorient on reverse) Miranda-Reverse-Mouse behavior.

thank you very much
when is the next update to be expected?

as already said, I also wanted it to be automated the first time I touched a randa in my life, but now that I have seen it in action for a few hours, I realize how horrible it is, and would also not recommend to any new players to learn it this way in the first place. It just feels like my hands are not mine.

But simply leaving an option to such automated solutions is always the best way anyway, I am very glad you will do exactly this.


@[Y]: im talking about full-mouse control. and i want the acceleration line to remain as it is, without being shortened, since controlling the acceleration with the mouse, especially a high-sensitivity one, already is hard enough as it is.

generally, its one of the biggest disadvantages of mousing, since its hard to keep balance between your regular max acceleration and turbo, while waving the mouse all over the place to steer.


but also otherwise - i dont realy care if other people are controlling the game with a keyboard, or a mouse, or their minds or their ass, or if they are smashing their head against a big jelly ball with build-in joystic keys or something, it should be free for everyone to decide, and this kind of stuff should always be optional. so, yeah, also make it optional for the whale..

[Urpee]

Originally Posted by peww

why not just put the mouse crosshair in a fixed arc? that'll resolve the issues of not knowing where the mouse is AND also takes away the mouse advantage of aiming long distance shots easier than keyboard users.

also, is it just me or is there no way to change the mouse sensitivity in-game?

That's cause drift. It's a really bad idea to fix the arc. Well unless you want mouse play to just feel bad.

[RockRidX]

I think its not fair to change something so fundmental as this. I just didnt even think it was up for consideration to change.
Please give me back my green bar, after a day of playing its just not the same. Just give us a server were the last patch was implemented if it effects people that much or gives that much of an advantage.
I miss knowing what way my plan was facing at a glance as mouse moves faster than the plane turns. I miss knowing the length of my laser, or knowing how a bomber primary fire arc. My favourite thing about this game was playing it one handed I could smoke at the same time!!!

[peww]

well something needs to be done because mouse users need to keep track of where their crosshair is in addition to where their plane is, while keyboard only users only need to keep track of their plane.

[lamster]

Originally Posted by RockRidX

I think its not fair to change something so fundmental as this. I just didnt even think it was up for consideration to change.
Please give me back my green bar, after a day of playing its just not the same...My favourite thing about this game was playing it one handed I could smoke at the same time!!!

We didn't remove the throttle bar from mouse mode -- you can still play one handed with the default Mouse mode (Options -> Controls -> Mouse Navigation -> Turning and Throttle). The throttle bar was only removed from the hybrid keyboard/mouse mode (Mouse Navigation "Turning Only") because it doesn't actually control the throttle in that mode (a second hand on the keyboard adjusts throttle) and leaving the bar provides an unfair advantage over other keyboard users.

We will be addressing the other concerns (cursor moving on reverse, visibility of crosshair) very soon, let us know if you have suggestions.

[Sunaku]

Graphical, gameplay and technical update? It's Christmas early at Nimbly Games! The 2011 one, that is

Originally Posted by lamster

Updated graphics for ball_snow (credit: Josh Singh)

Thanks for adding the credit, as the new snow is nothing less than gorgeous. You can blame him if 24/7 snow servers begin to spawn! No wonder this guy is working on Blizz's next soul harvester.
Speaking of beautiful map relooking, it would also be awesome if the graphics of tbd_cave could be applied to the ball version.

Thanks for adressing the mouse issue. I'm not sure it will get rid of the advantages entirely but it's a good and prompt beginning.

I like the new display of the servers in the friend list, but I kinda preferred the buttons over the drop-down menu, it was handier in my opinion.

I don't know if Santa's hat is just meant to be a special one-shot, or if you plan on expanding in the hats department, but I think the idea fits the game perfectly. Once you have fixed the eventual confusion caused by this hat's color, I could see those providing that extra bit of visual fun, without impairing the gameplay's visibility. You could even make two separate options to show skins or hats. By the way, please consider adding moustaches.

[Pieface]

A sombrero/moustache combination has enormous potential.

[Flexio]

I want top hats.

[AC130]

Finally implemented after nearly half a year. Hats!

http://altitudegame.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3621

[RockRidX]

Originally Posted by lamster

We didn't remove the throttle bar from mouse mode -- you can still play one handed with the default Mouse mode (Options -> Controls -> Mouse Navigation -> Turning and Throttle). The throttle bar was only removed from the hybrid keyboard/mouse mode (Mouse Navigation "Turning Only") because it doesn't actually control the throttle in that mode (a second hand on the keyboard adjusts throttle) and leaving the bar provides an unfair advantage over other keyboard users.

We will be addressing the other concerns (cursor moving on reverse, visibility of crosshair) very soon, let us know if you have suggestions.

I had my throttle up and throttle down set to mouse 4 and 5 and played one handed, playing throttle mode just doesnt work for me. I miss it because I dont know the way my plane is facing and it helped me aim my laser and bomber. It also helped me turn I dont know I think I used it as a reference point and judged distances and turning circles with it.

Also I just realised the other change I really hate the way sec fire works on randa now it is killing me alot in tigh turning, it was hard at 1st but please dont listen to new players, muscle memory keeps flicking my mouse please revert these changes!

[Aero_Beast]

You realize the line helping with bomber arc and turning means its an advantage so it had to be changed just give it some time you will get used to it. I do agree the cross hair gets hard to see should make it a diff color that stands out, omg or make it customizable so the player can choose color that would be awesome plz do that.

[hurripilot]

So alti won't update. Here is error log:

Failed to initialize logger: file=log/Restart.log, level=DEBUG, pattern=%p [%d{ISO8601}] [%t]: %m%n, maxFileSize=100KB, maxBackups=1, wasInitialized=false
java.io.FileNotFoundException: /Applications/Altitude/log/Restart.log (Permission denied)
at java.io.FileOutputStream.openAppend(Native Method)
at java.io.FileOutputStream.<init>(FileOutputStream.j ava:177)
at java.io.FileOutputStream.<init>(FileOutputStream.j ava:102)
at launch.R.a(SourceFile:290)
at launch.t.a(SourceFile:194)
at launch.R.<init>(SourceFile:109)
at launch.t.<init>(SourceFile:72)
at launch.Y.a(SourceFile:70)
at launch.Y.a(SourceFile:20)
at em.update.client.i4j.I4jRelauncher.main(SourceFile :12)
at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0(Nativ e Method)
at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(Native MethodAccessorImpl.java:39)
at sun.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(De legatingMethodAccessorImpl.java:25)
at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Method.java:597)
at com.exe4j.runtime.LauncherEngine.launch(Unknown Source)
at com.install4j.runtime.MacLauncher.main(Unknown Source)
at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0(Nativ e Method)
at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(Native MethodAccessorImpl.java:39)
at sun.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(De legatingMethodAccessorImpl.java:25)
at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Method.java:597)
at apple.launcher.LaunchRunner.run(LaunchRunner.java: 115)
at apple.launcher.LaunchRunner.callMain(LaunchRunner. java:50)
at apple.launcher.JavaApplicationLauncher.launch(Java ApplicationLauncher.java:52)
log4j:WARN No appenders could be found for logger (em.update.client.i4j.I4jRelauncher).
log4j:WARN Please initialize the log4j system properly.

halp plox! <3

[peww]

Originally Posted by Aero_Beast

You realize the line helping with bomber arc and turning means its an advantage so it had to be changed just give it some time you will get used to it. I do agree the cross hair gets hard to see should make it a diff color that stands out, omg or make it customizable so the player can choose color that would be awesome plz do that.

no it's not the same, keyboard users don't need to keep track of their crosshair like mouse users do.

What about a CURVED thin stringy line that's attached to the crosshair and the tip of the plane? that way it won't help aim for you because it won't be a straight line, and it'll help mouse users keep track of the crosshair easier..

[VipMattMan]

Not having any issues with lack of line. Cursor does need other colors as options as other people have suggested. The dull red blends in with some of the maps.

I know the randa update was intended to help mouse users with it, but mouse tricky randa has been destroyed for anyone who learned the "hard" way. It's good to hear that it's going to be an option in a future update. I can only hope that update is very very soon.

As far as which option should be first for new players, i don't know. I can see where it might be easier for some new players to use the new method, and some people in game who don't use mouse checked it out and told me they found it easier. However, to me it seems like it might be a bad habit to pick up for new players. You have more control with the older method and once a player learns the new method, they would have a reluctance to switch to the old system.

[blln4lyf]

Originally Posted by VipMattMan

Not having any issues with lack of line. Cursor does need other colors as options as other people have suggested. The dull red blends in with some of the maps.

I know the randa update was intended to help mouse users with it, but mouse tricky randa has been destroyed for anyone who learned the "hard" way. It's good to hear that it's going to be an option in a future update. I can only hope that update is very very soon.

As far as which option should be first for new players, i don't know. I can see where it might be easier for some new players to use the new method, and some people in game who don't use mouse checked it out and told me they found it easier. However, to me it seems like it might be a bad habit to pick up for new players. You have more control with the older method and once a player learns the new method, they would have a reluctance to switch to the old system.

The new method is the same as KB's, the old method...while harder to learn...is technically another advantage that mouse has. This one is pretty damn minor imo, but I'd say the new method should be first for new players.

[lamster]

Originally Posted by hurripilot

So alti won't update. Here is error log:

[B]Failed to initialize logger: file=log/Restart.log, level=DEBUG, pattern=%p [%d{ISO8601}] [%t]: %m%n, maxFileSize=100KB, maxBackups=1, wasInitialized=false
java.io.FileNotFoundException: /Applications/Altitude/log/Restart.log (Permission denied)
halp plox! <3

Weird - I'd try restarting the computer, and if that doesn't fix it uninstall / reinstall from http://altitudegame.com

[Spartan]

first off, ball_snow looks completely awesome. great job to the artist

second, i really like how the new friends list looks with its different color codes and server joined listed right under the name (makes it real easy to see which friends are where very quickly). the only request i would make is to bring back the join server button, on either side of the name. it's nice to be able to click on the name to message a friend or to click on the join-server button to join them. But that's it. still really like the new layout

[Aero_Beast]

I agree with spartan the button was nice and I find myself clicking join server when I want to message someone. Would be nice to have button for server and click name for talking but otherwise I like the look of it.

[CCN]

What spartan said about the quick click message friend/join server buttons pls!

[Nikon]

Yes please, it was better When you could just click on the name and chat, and a button to join their server. but other than that it's great. I really like snow, still getting use to it though. Love the new skins too.

[VipMattMan]

Originally Posted by blln4lyf

The new method is the same as KB's, the old method...while harder to learn...is technically another advantage that mouse has. This one is pretty damn minor imo, but I'd say the new method should be first for new players.

Not completely true.

Using keyboard only you can turn while tricky-reversing backwards. You have a constant axis during that process.

Keyboard + Mouse with the old method of tricky reverse allowed you to have a variable axis in that process. That did indeed allow the potential for a very slight advantage of control over keyboard only users, for those that mastered it.

Keyboard + Mouse with the new system has a brief dead time where you tricky straight backwards without any axis at all. You then have to identify a new cursor location and begin turning from that point.

IMO the axis system of tricky for Mouse+KB was more similar to keyboard in its previous state than the current one, barring the whole single-button perfect turn-back element.

If new users learn the new system of tricky mouse+kb then they're going to be disadvantaged to both keyboard only and old-system mouse/keyboard users. I say when people are playing mouse and unlock randa for the first time, pop up a little help message that asks them whether they want to use traditional or simplified tricky controls (with traditional listed first). At least that would put it in their heads that there is a notable difference between the two, and that it's selectable in options.

[Mandrad]

Its great that the editor issue was improved. Tx alot for that. Ill be testing it soon!
Wish i had seen new maps added to officials. There are some good enough maps! Cof.. cof..
The new maps server - - - dont forget it! Please.
@ friendslist interface. I dont like it but we get used to anything. Major problem is font size. Light transparent green is to clean but...

Tx for keeping this rocking

[Gruntbuggly]

I'm sure others have pointed it out, but the removal of the mouse bar for one mouse style and not the other proves that it wasn't removed due to a supposed advantage over the keyboard. As a mouse+keyboard user, the removal of the bar has made the game un-playable for me and I feel like I might quit if that's the way it is going to stay. It's a shame as I've dragged 3 friends into Altitude so far and was in the process of bringing more along. Please return the throttle bar or make it optional. The cross-hair is rubbish and basically invisible if you play as fast as I and many other loopies do.
Bummer.

[Gruntbuggly]

Originally Posted by Aero_Beast

You realize the line helping with bomber arc and turning means its an advantage so it had to be changed just give it some time you will get used to it. I do agree the cross hair gets hard to see should make it a diff color that stands out, omg or make it customizable so the player can choose color that would be awesome plz do that.

If that was the case Aero, then it would have been removed for both styles of mouse play, which it wasn't

[VipMattMan]

Originally Posted by Gruntbuggly

If that was the case Aero, then it would have been removed for both styles of mouse play, which it wasn't

Lamster is one of the devs of the game. He's stated in this and other threads that the reason the bar was going to stay for pure mouse-throttle was for lack of other current options.

Pure mouse throttle is at such a disadvantage in so many situations that having a bar that might be advantageous wasn't seen by the devs as a huge issue. Mouse+KB doesn't have those disadvantages.

Clearly something still has to be done about the visibility of the crosshair, which Lamster acknowledged and said they're working on.

[JWhatever]

Few tips for you who can't fly with the new kb+mouse:

• Keep the crosshair next to your plane

• Possition yourself according to the backround and the obstacles. If an obstacle is moving right in your screen, you are flying left. If an obstacle is moving diagonally downwards, you are flying to the opposite direction.

• Look at the plane itself.

Suggestion: make an optional option that you could limit the crosshairs distance from the plane (something like 1-1.5 of a plane length). If this was implanted, you could also give the mouse players the same vision as kb players have (as in, the screen wouldn't move over the map boundaries).

-J

[Gruntbuggly]

Originally Posted by VipMattMan

Lamster is one of the devs of the game. He's stated in this and other threads that the reason the bar was going to stay for pure mouse-throttle was for lack of other current options.

Pure mouse throttle is at such a disadvantage in so many situations that having a bar that might be advantageous wasn't seen by the devs as a huge issue. Mouse+KB doesn't have those disadvantages.

Clearly something still has to be done about the visibility of the crosshair, which Lamster acknowledged and said they're working on.

Fair opinion, but my opinion is that this patch is rubbish and will make key/mouse players want to stop playing, regardless of Lamster's qualifications.

Also if your comment 'pure mouse throttle is at such a disadvantage in so many situations' was true, people wouldn't play it. This appears to be a case of listening to the whinges of some, to ruin the game play of many.

[VipMattMan]

Originally Posted by Gruntbuggly

Also if your comment 'pure mouse throttle is at such a disadvantage in so many situations' was true, people wouldn't play it. This appears to be a case of listening to the whinges of some, to ruin the game play of many.

If you truly believe it's not a disadvantage, then play it. You'll have your bar. Problem solved.

[Gruntbuggly]

Originally Posted by VipMattMan

If you truly believe it's not a disadvantage, then play it. You'll have your bar. Problem solved.

So my game playing style was removed, why? And mouse/keyboard users are forced to learn the game all over again with the new 'more advantageous' keyboard only to suit whose whims?
Think you find it will just turn people away.

[VipMattMan]

Originally Posted by Gruntbuggly

So my game playing style was removed, why? And mouse/keyboard users are forced to learn the game all over again with the new 'more advantageous' keyboard only to suit whose whims?
Think you find it will just turn people away.

Once they fix the cross hair visibility issues, and give the tricky randa its old control method back, who's relearning anything?

[Gruntbuggly]

It's more than a matter of crosshair visibility Matt. When I play, I watch my plane and my periphery vision keeps track of where I'm steering. I'm not watching the crosshair darting over the far reaches of my screen. The concept of mouse control relies on the ability to watch your plane and have the guidance marker (cross hair or throttle line) close by, not in some random place somewhere that you have no idea about because you've been forced to turn quickly or thermoed or the like.
So yes it would be a relearning if you were forced to use mouse-only for the sake of having a decent localised direction marker