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  #41  
Old 05-23-2011, 01:36 AM
Joaquin Joaquin is offline
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to yank:
please pew-pew me, anything that makes you happy as long as it will keep your mind from the fantasies about our 'plane setup heated discussions' etc.


to mikesol:
Thank you for taking some of your time and responding in some kind of constructive form.
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  #42  
Old 10-13-2011, 09:07 PM
Dark_Sage Dark_Sage is offline
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Hey nobo I'm curious about something maybe you could explain it. If you look at my ladder games you'll see that I went from gaining/losing around 20 points a game to 46 in the first game on October 12. I was wondering why there was a sudden jump, as I don't think I was on a streak and was active two days before. The team I had in that game also had a 46% chance to win so it wasn't due to being overrated. Just curious, I'm not really upset or anything as I know I'm far from the best tbd player in the world.
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  #43  
Old 12-11-2011, 11:06 PM
Plauze Plauze is offline
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He guys!

I just wanted to point out, that I really do not like this rating system and do not understand it. It should be a rough value for the skills of a player, but imao it is everything but that.

I had some games I really played well, including mvp as well as most deadly, some goals, goals assists and so on...and yet my rating still dropped, because the game was lost (no matter whether at the result of 6-5 or 6-0).

In contrast to that, if I play badly and win, my rating increases. If you have a look into the bladder top players list, you can see that each and every guy standing at the top has a winning streak going on or had one recently.

Do not get me wrong, winning or loosing should be a part of the ratio, but imao at a weight of 1/6, as there are 6 players and it is really frustrating to play 3 games well (and I mean really well) and still see my rating drop just because they were close and in the end we lost.

So, why do winning/loosing streaks do have such a great impact on the rating? Winning or loosing says nothing about my skills and how well I played and I therefore do not understand the rating as well as the top list...It basically says how many games in a row I have won.

BR,

[x Plauze x]

PS: And I know that I am not the only one holding this opinion, many other ppl do not understand this either.

Last edited by Plauze; 12-11-2011 at 11:25 PM.
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  #44  
Old 12-11-2011, 11:15 PM
Aki1024 Aki1024 is offline
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Elo systems in general are for your rating over time, not performance per game. The outcome of your rating up or down is strictly a binary choice of did you win or lose. It isn't designed to know a person scored the most points for their team, or had a strong kda. The complexity of such a system is above the practicality of coding it verse this being a community ran project.
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  #45  
Old 12-12-2011, 03:34 AM
Karl Karl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plauze View Post
He guys!

I just wanted to point out, that I really do not like this rating system and do not understand it. It should be a rough value for the skills of a player, but imao it is everything but that.
Skill ≈ Probability of Winning.

A good article about TrueSkill a modified Elo by Microsoft could shed some light on your concerns as Nobo uses Elo:
http://www.moserware.com/2010/03/com...our-skill.html
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  #46  
Old 12-13-2011, 08:12 AM
malakas malakas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plauze View Post
Do not get me wrong, winning or loosing should be a part of the ratio, but imao at a weight of 1/6, as there are 6 players and it is really frustrating to play 3 games well (and I mean really well) and still see my rating drop just because they were close and in the end we lost.

So, why do winning/loosing streaks do have such a great impact on the rating? Winning or loosing says nothing about my skills and how well I played and I therefore do not understand the rating as well as the top list...It basically says how many games in a row I have won.
Likewise if you play 3 games really poorly but win, your rating increases. Unless there is a panel of neutral judges appointed to each game to watch each player's performance, wins/losses are the single best way to rate...as others have mentioned...over time. That's the point. Play enough games and it all comes out in the wash.

Quite often a player will consistently get the ball/bomb over others almost all of the time. Therefore some players end up scoring more than others even though the quad kill or triple assist someone else got to make that score possible is just reflected in the stats like 4 run of the mill kills, etc. MVP in ball especially is all about goals, nevermind what the rest of the team did to set them up. Sometimes 1 or 2 goals can mean MVP, while someone else can have twice as many kills as anyone else on the team, 6 assists and tons of key plays that don't make the leaderboard and they lose out on MVP.

Some players score. They are good at it and that's their role. Others stay back and defend, which is equally as important but will never win you an MVP or get you any stats other than maybe some kills by default. And we all know (due to the complexity of coding and whatever) that saves aren't recorded but are just as crucial as goals.

So for any one game, your ranking can go up if you suck or go down if you're awesome. But over time your over all play and its contribution to whatever random/balanced teams you're on will better reflect your quality as a team player regardless of if you average several goals or mvp's a game or never. To change the scoring system as you suggest to any significant degree would merely promote individual stat padding over winning by any means necessary.

If you feel like your over all rating is lower than it should be, play more games and it will all come out in the wash and settle to where its supposed to be.

JMHO.
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  #47  
Old 12-13-2011, 10:40 AM
trendy11one trendy11one is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malakas View Post
Some players score. They are good at it and that's their role. Others stay back and defend, which is equally as important but will never win you an MVP or get you any stats other than maybe some kills by default. And we all know (due to the complexity of coding and whatever) that saves aren't recorded but are just as crucial as goals.
so what role rev rubber acid cover?
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  #48  
Old 12-13-2011, 10:49 AM
elxir elxir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trendy11one View Post
so what role rev rubber acid cover?
comic relief
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  #49  
Old 12-13-2011, 08:39 PM
malakas malakas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trendy11one View Post
so what role rev rubber acid cover?
Acid does a great job of general supression and team force multiplying. All too often ball is just 12 players going bat stool crazy afterburing towards the exact same point in space and time. Acid punishes this quite well, and downright severely if even one person on your team targets those dripping with acid. Basically spam the choke points and significantly dammage and de-armor (and then some) an entire push. Your remaining pew usually gets a kill and that leaves someone else in your team to supress the enemy with enhanced team damage output that acid provides.

Of course not everyone seems to realize that enemies dripping with residual acid are extra vulnerable, so all too often you see a push crew of 2 or 3 bad guys fly right by a team mate who waits until they stop dripping with acid and then fires. Whatever. Some gais gets it though.

Every ball team needs an acid IMO, but like I said, your team mates have to understand how to use it as well because its very much a team perk. Who wouldn't want a HC or lasor or bomber or explo or even DF loopy that does 33% more dammage? That's what acid does for the whole team.

As for rubber let's face it, we are in the age of thermowhores and it looks like that's here to stay. No nerf, just suck it up. Almost every ball team has 2, sometimes 3. When I play armor or drone on most maps most of my deaths come from being slammed into walls and the same goes for everyone on the team. How many ball games do you press tab and see two thermos in the enemy's top 3 in kills? Constantly. It is extremely effective and responsibile for a massive amount of kills, quite often the most kills, and yet everyone wears armor to protect from bullets and missiles that are responsibile for killing less and they accept crit-hits by terrain as an unavoidable fact of life.

Rubber avoids this very nicely. While it doesn't make you immune from dying even when the other team is pwning your team with thermos, it does allow you to stay alive longer and, convieniently enough, usually just long enough to drop one more acid bomb through a choke point before you die. A thermo slams you against the wall but you bounce off and live, grab a health pack and now you're in the fight longer than if you had double armor.

Its worth noting that a really, really good thermo player can partially compensate with precise aim targeted towards you (the rubber hull player) but even most good thermo players aren't very good at that and those who are still play the odds most of the time and go for the sure thing via a wall kill because worrying about the one player with rubber is too much to keep track of except the occasional 1v1 here and there.

As an added bonus, have you ever heard players complain about emp? I thought so. Rubber nerfs emp as well, so that's just icing on the cake. It also provides significant protection against any other whale spam (from either end) and even a little against nades and flack and sometimes even nerfs the effect of a wall that would have otherwise killed you by stalling you into a hard surface.

As for rev, getting around in ball is vital and the more options you have for that the better. Its not for every plane all the time, but IMO its great for acid because the rate of fire for acid isn't much different with rev or either of the batteries (yeah, that just happened, deal with it). You sacrifice a pew here and there but you're able to get where you need to go faster than aferburner while still charging too so if you rev a lot its better than turbo in some circumstances. It also buffs drone in that respect on those maps rev acid drone makes sense. With your superior mobility you can cover a lot of ground and with rubber you can slam into your own goal at any angle or speed and linger there for a while and end up kicking out what would have been an enemy goal you either wouldn't have been able to get to without rev, or ended up dead from contact with the goal without rubber.

I'm not saying rev rubber acid is right for everyone. But I've tried all kinds of configs for several different planes and it ends up working better for me. This season in bladder I'm hovering in the 1400's, which is about 200-300 points higher than I've been the past couple seasons when I played armor and drone. Not all star numbers by any means, but the point is I'm doing better with rev rubber acid so far than I've done consistantly with any other config.

So that's my story and I'm sticking to it. Y'all keep on flying towards your armored enemy holding down F. Whatevs.

And y'all keep on armoring up to take 20% more dammage while using a battery to shoot 20% more at your armored enemy and please keep flying through those choke points in large groups and be sure to tell me how mah acid tastes.

Last edited by malakas; 12-13-2011 at 08:45 PM.
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  #50  
Old 12-13-2011, 08:40 PM
malakas malakas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elxir View Post
comic relief
nou.


amirite?
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  #51  
Old 12-14-2011, 12:39 PM
Jrathje Jrathje is offline
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Great post, Malakas!
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  #52  
Old 12-14-2011, 03:45 PM
Plauze Plauze is offline
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Hi guys!

Thank you for your replies and your explanations. I will still be frustrated when I play well and my rating drops, but now I at least know why x]

I get your point, winning or loosing is the greatest indicator over time. But I still disagree. I cannot select my team mates and therefore I can only hardly influence the game's result.

I also get your point about the coding issues concerning defense players and good actions that are hard to track and evaluate.

I will keep your thoughts in mind and hopefully time will prove me wrong x] In the end I play bladder because the best players are there and I want to improve my gameplay. And for me the rating and the top list are not that important after all.

BR,

Plauze

Last edited by Plauze; 12-14-2011 at 03:50 PM.
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  #53  
Old 12-15-2011, 09:36 PM
MadCat MadCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plauze View Post
I cannot select my team mates and therefore I can only hardly influence the game's result.
Team composition is taken into account by the formula. If your team's average rating is worse than the opponent's, you will lose fewer points for a loss and gain more for a win than you would otherwise. Play enough games, and your rating should decently correlate to your skill level.
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  #54  
Old 12-15-2011, 09:59 PM
elxir elxir is offline
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oh my god madcat sighting
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