Patch: February 15th, balance adjustments

[Hollywood]

Originally Posted by Tekn0

and a couple of {ball} players WANTED it before SL

I like it personally. I have been hearing about new/old possible lineups which sounds like fun to me.

[classicallad]

Lol Tek, no need to get your kni kers in a twist over it. Its same for everyone and if our devs and mike feel its the right time i trust that it is so. What better testing ground for the patch could there be other than SL or APL?

[Tekn0]

I can imagine how much you'd get your pant ies in a twist if it were before APL.. anyway I don't really care except pointing out that -I- did sense this would happen and there other othesr who are wondering why patch in middle of SL.

Regarding your "it's the same for everyone" logic, that's not the point; it is now a question of how players adapt rather than just their skill and overall just causes more qq.

Personally I welcome the patch and I honestly don't find any of the changes -that- major except biplane.

Also, loopy is still op as ape**** with teams consistently playing more than 1 loopy

[don quijote]

Originally Posted by Greekjr14

To all the "OMG EMP IS USELESS NOW GG" people, get the **** over it. EMP was always being stacked on both ball and TBD teams because it was spammed too much and was easy enough to get off with the radius of

Dont worry man. I can play acid or HC as well, and maybe in a couple of months you will complain about the overpowered acid, hc or bombers (or whatever) and maybe you will have luck and somebody will nerf them.

For me this topic is end and i said all i wanted to say.
Thanks

[Woofy]

Originally Posted by elusive_one

This emp nerf has me shooting blanks constantly =\ Maybe dial it back to 1.5?

IMO it's perfect.. But I think it may be too early to tell.

[Aki1024]

Originally Posted by zackzingki

I didn't word that right. When I'm behind a biplane, and I shoot my emp, I should be able to shoot another instead of them recovering, then turning back to shoot me. If that makes sense.

I'm assuming "recovering" means the debuff is falling off of them. If you are accurate enough with emp, they won't recover from the emp debuff. The debuff last longer then the CD.

I'm unsure what the resistance is for biplane. I'm assuming that they don't suffer from the debuff as bad as others, but I just checked and the CD is still shorter then the duration of debuff on biplane.

[classicallad]

Originally Posted by Tekn0

I can imagine how much you'd get your pant ies in a twist if it were before APL.. anyway I don't really care except pointing out that -I- did sense this would happen and there other othesr who are wondering why patch in middle of SL.

Regarding your "it's the same for everyone" logic, that's not the point; it is now a question of how players adapt rather than just their skill and overall just causes more qq.

Personally I welcome the patch and I honestly don't find any of the changes -that- major except biplane.

Also, loopy is still op as ape**** with teams consistently playing more than 1 loopy

Wut? I am playing in SL and regardless of mode i want to win so i dont get you

[Kuja900]

I think emp nerf is fair, it actually requires you to aim it now instead of mindlessly spam it.

[A Nipple]

I disagree with balln about the change for bomber turning rate. Its fine as it is.

For the EMP I think trying it at between 35-38% rather than 40% would be worthwhile. This would be enough so you have to to aim suitably and it does not leave u wanting on the EMP too much.

On the whole I am yet to see any other outstanding issues.

nipnip

[Ribilla]

After playing loopy today I really like the EMP changes, it basically means you can perma disable 1 plane instead of 2 and it punishes spamming. Loopy is still neccessary on any team, those saying that EMP is useless need to get a grip.

The laser nerfs are really substantial, I won't go into exactly why but I think it'll make a big difference come APL.

Bomber and bip changes are welcome, if bip turns out to be too strong, I'd like it to keep the acceleration buff and take a slight nerf to secondary damage instead, though I think it's in a good place right now. Awesome patch.

[sunshineduck]

Originally Posted by Ribilla

I won't go into exactly why but I think it'll make a big difference come APL.

well thats one way to do things

[Greekjr14]

Originally Posted by don quijote

Dont worry man. I can play acid or HC as well, and maybe in a couple of months you will complain about the overpowered acid, hc or bombers (or whatever) and maybe you will have luck and somebody will nerf them.

For me this topic is end and i said all i wanted to say.
Thanks

In a couple of months I won't really care. I just play this game for fun now, and balancing issues aren't really my problem. I'm just tired of people complaining about "OMG this plane is OP or this perk is OP". It's a ****ing game. Not everything is going to be perfectly balanced.

[zz-]

Ok after having played some more games, I think it's possible this patch may have made miranda more effective than ever (at least in ball.) The number of situations affected by losing 25% of its warp damage is heavily outweighed by the benefit it receives from the major nerf to EMP.

Still not sure, just giving a heads up and would like others to consider this while we keep playing. The reason teams were needing 2 or 3 EMPs was to keep the other team's miranda from doing everything it wants. Now I'm afraid it may be too hard.

Like I said, not sure, but a definite possibility considering how minor the changes were to each plane and EMP being the biggest change in the patch by far.... EMP is the main contribution for the double fire loopy and 40% is a big number compared to the 1% and 3% and 10%s we're seeing everywhere else. I think the main consensus was for this patch to be a randa nerf with a small nerf to emp's annoyingness, instead right now it seems like a big big emp nerf, a small randa nerf, and a small buff to bip/bomb/whale.

[Ribilla]

Originally Posted by sunshineduck

well thats one way to do things

If you want a quick explanation I think a laser's damage is at least linearly dependant to it's range for almost any close fight (approaching a whale/bomber from behind/front or any light from the front), because it's length is proportional to how long you can keep it on them and a how close you need to be to deal damage.

Imagine how difficult laser would be if you cut it's length by 50%.

[sunshineduck]

Originally Posted by Ribilla

If you want a quick explanation I think a laser's damage is at least linearly dependant to it's range for almost any close fight (approaching a whale/bomber from behind/front or any light from the front), because it's length is proportional to how long you can keep it on them and a how close you need to be to deal damage.

Imagine how difficult laser would be if you cut it's length by 50%.

yeah i feel you, i just dislike when people have thoughts and don't share them since it's a balance thread etc

personally i feel like the nerf is substantial vs heavies, but was also probably very deserved. the ability to exploit any weakness in positioning by a bomber/whale was just a bit too much, and i think the patch helped that interaction a lot. the flip side is that the warp damage nerf makes the laser/trickster dogfighting way more interesting and not just autowin for the trick.

i also feel like laser/trick bomb running is stronger than before though. pretty much the only plane that can consistently stop a full speed randa bomb carrier 1v1 is a bip or if the loopy hits an emp outside cover (which is harder now)

[zz-]

I think it may be worth considering exchanging a good portion of the cooldown increase for a decrease in the turning debuff time. The cooldown increase punishes good loopies who are landing EMP after EMP, and the real skill in playing EMP is spreading it around efficiently, minorly distracting enemies and keeping them from playing perfectly. If the cooldown was reduced closer to the old cooldown but the duration of EMP shortened, it wouldnt be SUCH a disadvantage to get hit by one, and we'd end up meeting the goal of forcing a loopy to be very accurate to use emp to maintain control.

Again, just tossing ideas, we all know i'm an emp player but for me and others it actually feels somewhat dumbed down and skill ceiling lowered bigtime, not necessarily harder.

[Ribilla]

Originally Posted by zz-

I think it may be worth considering exchanging a good portion of the cooldown increase for a decrease in the turning debuff time. The cooldown increase punishes good loopies who are landing EMP after EMP, and the real skill in playing EMP is spreading it around efficiently, minorly distracting enemies and keeping them from playing perfectly. If the cooldown was reduced closer to the old cooldown but the duration of EMP shortened, it wouldnt be SUCH a disadvantage to get hit by one, and we'd end up meeting the goal of forcing a loopy to be very accurate to use emp to maintain control.

Again, just tossing ideas, we all know i'm an emp player but for me and others it actually feels somewhat dumbed down and skill ceiling lowered bigtime, not necessarily harder.

I'd like it to have a massive energy cost that get's partially refunded on hit, what do you think about that?

[darknietzsche]

Personally, I feel like the cooldown increase has only made me better. I can emp but I am not wasting energy on pointless emps like I was before. I am much more focused in what I am trying to accomplish as an emp player. I understand where zz is coming from and others. Just for me, now I can stun and finish players off in certain situations that maybe I would have not been so good at before because I was constantly emping players. I feel that again certain maps definitely punishes the emp nerf more than others though.

[adjahe]

I wonder how much longer laser will be the whipping boy. Love the changes overall gents. Especially bomber buff.

[Tekn0]

Originally Posted by darknietzsche

Personally, I feel like the cooldown increase has only made me better. I can emp but I am not wasting energy on pointless emps like I was before. I am much more focused in what I am trying to accomplish as an emp player. I understand where zz is coming from and others. Just for me, now I can stun and finish players off in certain situations that maybe I would have not been so good at before because I was constantly emping players. I feel that again certain maps definitely punishes the emp nerf more than others though.

I feel the same way about EMP too. Before every loopy could just keep spamming EMP but the good loopies would hold it just a bit for the right situations and this patch does not punish those loopies as much.

The warp damage is very substantial and noticeable, randas can no longer just warp through smoking cluster-fcks and get the ball and I think this is good enough for now.

[wuwu]

srsly can u fix the explodet aside from everything else..


MIKE

pls fix this man..

[Aki1024]

Originally Posted by wuwu

pls fix this man..

Do you want Mike to fix Lamster?

Originally Posted by wuwu

pls fix this, man..

Or do you want Mike to fix the balance patch?

[wuwu]

either or isnt it like an egg chicken problem anyway.

[classicallad]

Explo's slight nerf on mine dmg imo was needed, good patch so far. By the way tricksters and ta's can still shot/warp combo loops and randas with HA.

[leggomyeggo]

i honestly haven't felt a difference in explo. it was a slight nerf, just keep it as is.

[Kaizen]

Originally Posted by ryebone

Not quite sure if the acid change was a buff or a nerf. On one hand, it's DPS is lowered. On the other, it benefits teammates more who now have more time to get easy kills. My guess is that the change was to force a more "team-oriented" for acid loopy. If so, I think it's working.

Agreed, it would be a nerf for hero acids but works out better for acid as a strategic player within a team.

Edit: Plus, I agree with soccer, balln, and zz.

[vintage]

Out of curiosity, will anyone be updating the wiki to reflect these changes? Especially the stats page.

[Slender]

Originally Posted by vintage

Out of curiosity, will anyone be updating the wiki to reflect these changes? Especially the stats page.

I could, if I get some free time off of school.

[Clapon]

This patch makes me so happy, that is all.

Cant wait to actually get some games in to test stuff out ^^

[classicallad]

Originally Posted by Clapon

This patch makes me so happy, that is all.

Cant wait to actually get some games in to test stuff out ^^

Bomber
has the agilty to dogfight as well as provide pushing power now, liking it

[Tekn0]

Originally Posted by leggomyeggo

i honestly haven't felt a difference in explo. it was a slight nerf, just keep it as is.

I suggest the next patch should have this code:

if (user.name.contains("leggo") || user.vaporid == c8aa9606-6849-4bde-8f0c-699bfb983be3)
  nerf_everything();

That is all.

[Clam]

Originally Posted by shrode

I'd say just revert the biplane ball carry speed so people don't complain and im happy! Good patch, and I really feel like you hit miranda in the right place (warp damage decrease was what i have been saying forever)

Goddammit shrode

I only played a couple bladder games after the first patch, and noticed the remote nerf just twice in 50-odd kills when a smoking whale didn't die when I expected it to. But it wasn't hard to finish it off and only cost me a second or two at most, so I guess it's fine.

Though I have to say, getting rid of SHRODE's stupid buffed whale-hunting bip on pp was about 2-2.5 times more annoying. Remote might have balanced better vs laser, but I'm feeling the bip buff a lot harder. It'd be nice to have it toned it down, but who really cares...I'm just a clam...

Also, on open maps and in TBD, rockets seemed to be more powerful in comparison to mines (at least to me) and I end up using the former quite a lot more. Does anyone know the dmg of rockets vs mines?

[Aki1024]

public void SpawnPlane() {
    if (user.name.contains("leggo") || user.vaporid == c8aa9606-6849-4bde-8f0c-699bfb983be3)
      nerf_everything(user, 0.3333f);
}

public void nerf_everything(Player oPlayer, float fPercent) {
    oPlayer.HP = Math.Floor(oPlayer.HP * fPercent);
    oPlayer.MaxHP = Math.Floor(oPlayer.MaxHP * fPercent);
    oPlayer.MaxSpeed = Player.MaxSpeed * fPercent;
    oPlayer.MaxTurnDelta = Player.MaxTurnDelta * fPercent;
    oPlayer.Weapon[0].Damage =  oPlayer.Weapon[0].Damage * fPercent;
    oPlayer.Weapon[1].Damage =  oPlayer.Weapon[1].Damage * fPercent;
    oPlayer.Weapon["Bomb"].Damage = 0;
    oPlayer.Weapon["Ball"].LaunchSpeed = oPlayer.Weapon["Ball"].Speed * fPercent;
    oPlayer.Buff.Add(Buff.DOT, oPlayer.HP * 0.10f);//Player has 10s of life
}

Clam: 94 Mine explosion + 30 Mine contact vs 93 Missile (pre-patch) via Plane Stats

[zackzingki]

I played for a while are decided that the patch is fine. Everything is pretty balanced now. I sort of got used to the loopy, I'm developing a new play style which consists of holding F most of the time, but it's a pretty good patch. I'm still hoping the Loopy gets reverted a little bit, but I never got to mention how good the miranda nerf was. Great patch overall.

Also, the fullscreen glitch isn't as severe, but it's still there. And my controls on my Mac still randomly stops.

[Mo0nche3se]

the emp nerf is far too much, to do a 40% time delay from the start rather than trying 10 or 20% first seems a little unfair. noticed you didnt nerf any of the other planes by anywhere near as much, this update may be the nail in the coffin of a already dieing game.

[Slender]

Originally Posted by Mo0nche3se

the emp nerf is far too much, to do a 40% time delay from the start rather than trying 10 or 20% first seems a little unfair. noticed you didnt nerf any of the other planes by anywhere near as much, this update may be the nail in the coffin of a already dieing game.

Originally Posted by Hollywood

qq more loopies. You are finally punished for spamming just like every other plane, and you hate it.

Originally Posted by SlenderMan

4 almost 5 years of easy game play and overpowered loopies have come to one patch that has them all whining because of a short-delayed EMP.

Come again.

[leggomyeggo]

can we just start ignoring posts by people like that? it's honestly not helping at all in the discussion. just don't look at it, don't talk to it, and we can all hope it goes away.

[LewisH]

Originally Posted by leggomyeggo

can we just start ignoring posts by people like that? it's honestly not helping at all in the discussion. just don't look at it, don't talk to it, and we can all hope it goes away.

Wait, slender or moon?
It's screwed over my playstyle, but i should adjust eventually and I still enjoy loop (Then again, fix it for coop? :])

[classicallad]

I've actually found that my movement when playing loopy now is more fluid and aggressive. Whereas before when it was all too easy to spam emp without delay, now loopies need to use the emp more wisely as i dont think anyone will argue that it's still the best secondary.

[leggomyeggo]

Originally Posted by LewisH

Wait, slender or moon?

take a wild guess