My opinion on Emp

[CCN]

Emp isn't broken, the game is some what balanced around it, but thats not the problem with it. Why everyone complains about it, and why everyone hates it is because it's not fun. It takes away play, emp = end of combat. Rather then a fight or anything emp takes the fun out of it. You can't escape or dogfight with emp, it makes every battle decided in the split second and skill becomes irrelevant. It lowers the skill threshold, makes most skill irrelevant

For this reason, I wish emp to be limited to those under level 60, and above 60 give loopies some other secondary, like a short range tracking missile or something.

Change it not because its broken, but because its not fun. Im not saying my idea of secondary is great yet, but i'll work on it.

[nesnl]

So the solution to the EMP is to give Loopy a secondary of short range tracking missiles as what I can only assume is a compliment to its long range tracking missiles that are it's primary.

I really don't have all that much issue with EMP. It has its uses and when you get good enough you don't really get it by it all that much. However, I do wish that EMP (and acid) would also affect the Loopy user itself. Just as explodet rockets, mines, and bomber grenades can affect the person who shot it (as in you can't fire an explodet rocket and detonate it point blank or else you will feel the effects yourself and take damge). I would like to see this happen with EMP. So if you EMP an enemy point blank it should also EMP the Loopy who shot it. Similarly if a Loopy fires acid and flies through its own cloud, it should be affected by that acid. I think that would reduce a lot of the problems that are associated with it.

[Demuyt]

I think the best would be to have a perk that prevents you from being attacked with emp and acid. Maybe rubberized hull would do the job.

[nobodyhome]

Let me address your points:

1. EMP means the end of every fight (i.e. loopy will win every time he gets a EMP off onto an opponent)

This is false. There are many ways that you could still win or survive if you get emped. This includes pressing shaking the loopy off with an explodet mine or with bomber backgun, reversing as randa and shooting him, or stalling and turning to f+d the loopy as biplane. Or most oftenly, you survive because your teammates are with you and they shake the loopy off for you.

2. EMP is not fun because once you get hit there's no skill in fighting it off

Many things in this game can be considered "not fun". To name one of many, getting hit by three rounds of off screen grenades and getting insta-killed can be considered "not fun".

But you know as well as I do that if you are hanging out in common spam spots, then you kinda deserve it. Similarly, if you are out flying alone separate from your team, you kinda deserve getting emp'ed by a loopy and subsequently dying to the non-fight that follows. Just like flying in spam spots is an invitation to get instakilled by nadespam, so is flying alone an invitation to get picked off by a patrolling loopy, as loopies are masters of picking off stray planes like the way bombers are masters at controlling choke points.

If you fly together with your team you'll find more often that when you get emp'ed, it will take skill from your teammates to protect you from getting picked off. See point 1 about skill.

[Duck Duck Pwn]

Or, you know, you could actually try dodging the EMP, which makes things a lot easier.

[elxir]

I'm still amused that an EMP can shut down the power systems in a plane that can bend time and space.

[nesnl]

I have to say though that most of the critisism revolving around EMP usually comes from miranda players and I have to say that it is a good weapon against mirandas. So I can't say that I am not surprised that they don't like the effects of it.

[Evan20000]

As a randa, I think our Charge cannons are more dangerous to them then their EMPs are to us.

[Curious]

lots of times emp makes biplane unable to do a single thing in response.

[DiogenesDog]

Personally, I like EMP. Things I like about it:

- Gauging the range for an aoe, non-direct, non-wall hit is an interesting and unique skill (actually, I kinda wish it had shorter range so this was more a part of using it).

- Flying while EMPed involves interesting choices and quick adaptation.

- EMP (and acid even moreso) is unique in that it's a support ability, which can be cool in team games.

- It feels unique and it's satisfying killing a dude after you've EMPed him.


Personally, I find it pretty fun. The only non-fun part to me is that there's rarely a decision of "use or not use"... you pretty much ALWAYS want to EMP/acid guys, which is kinda unfortunate.

[Smushface]

I'm fine with emp. I think the randa v loopy 1v1 match up is generally pretty even. Maybe if the other team has 2 or 3 loopies, it gets harder to be a lone miranda, but what team does that?

edit: I meant that in the context of tbd. In ball most teams do have 2-3 loopies which makes it incredibly frustrating to play miranda. But the plane balance in ball is weird and it works so that there should only be one good TA randa per team. If you look at trickster in ball, with the exception of 2-3 trickster players who come from tbd and translate their skills into ball well, then yea, miranda is a terrible plane and emp should be nerfed but altitude should never be balanced around ball.

[Demuyt]

I think double fire is op...

[404notfound]

Originally Posted by Demuyt

I think double fire is op...

At the risk of derailing, I think this is a more crucial issue. The trade-offs between tracker and double shot are uneven: you lose a slight bit of homing power (which is largely irrelevant if you're aiming in the general direction of a plane anyway) but gain a large increase in damage output. To bring this back on-topic, EMP could maybe get a nerf, but only for the double shot perk. A shorter duration, perhaps, or the possibility of being hit by your own close-range EMP, as suggested above.

[York]

Ok so there are a couple ways to solve the issue.

First off,

1) EMP isn't exactly OP.
2) It is fun to play against.

Even if those things were true, there are ways around it, instead of destroying it completely.

1) Rubber Hull: Immune to EMP and Acid. It can also "bounce" EMPs back, if you want things to get interesting.
2) EMP Duration: You can always make the effect of it last longer!
3) EMP Effect: You can always make it work less. Instead of loosing 50% turn ability, make it 40%

[mled]

I dont mind acid i gota be honest when i die with acid i dont really care but if i get emped i get pissed off because
1. u cant turn properly u crash into walls often if ur goin fast in the top of cave
2. nobodyhome..ul like this one, i often do stall with the biplane but if the grounds close to u ul die becuse emp wont let u use ur ater burner to escape it ( so therefore ul need high altitude area to do so)
3. with explodet i often use mines but, you can only use ONE or two max and even so a regular loopy will go around and still kill you.

so the best plane to contradict a loopy is bomber. or miranda IF you dont get EMPed before the miranda gets one hit on the loopy but if the loopy EMPs first i always die with a miranda, but hitting the loopy once gives u a chance to anchor or spin back and just do little damage to finish him.

i sorta agree with CCN on this 1 maybe just make its radius smaller? i dont no man but emp pisses me off the most out of everything in the game.

[lablecd6]

I'm decent with every plane except the loopie, and I don't have a single problem with EMP.

In other words, don't change it.

[mled]

Originally Posted by lablecd6

I'm decent with every plane except the loopie, and I don't have a single problem with EMP.

In other words, don't change it.

says the player with how many hours?

ps: dont mean to be insulting

[ufo]

I enjoy teh emp

[Zombi]

I think Loopy is ok as it is

[Boko]

I think the best solution for the emp spam is for the emp to take up a bit more energy like the acid does. This way it'll make it a "use or not use" weapon. Less people will be hit with spam -> less rage -> emp remains effective and balanced (as I think it is right now).

[Jayfourke]

As a loopy, I have to say that I both love and rely on EMP. I use it constantly, I'll fire an EMP and then engage anyone it hits with missiles, or I might just swoop down on a grouped enemy, give 'em an EMP, and let the heavier planes on my team rip them apart. Oh, the wonderful blue squiggles of impending doom, how I love them.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, there's nothing more infuriating than being EMP'd and robbed of my turning circle, as I will promptly crash into something. Or not have the afterburner power that I need to recover from the stall that I dived into to engage the guy above me. Then... Splat, crash, boom.

And respawn.

[Radium]

Think about how a loopy would do in a dogfight without EMP.
A single loopy missile doesn't do much damage, and loopy can get off how many missiles in a second? 3? Maybe 4? It would lose to almost every plane without EMP

[Ajuk999]

We could pick apart every plane until there is no plane. Bottom of the line, Altitude is meant to have planes that are more powerful then the others. The Miranda has some things that might be considered "OP" and so do: the loopy, the explodet, the bomber, and the biplane. But this game would be boring and dry, if all of the planes had the same amount of power. And it is fun when you have a perk that can own your opponent.

[mlopes]

I like EMP when I play loopy (not that often nowadays) and I don't think it affects me that much when I'm flying other planes. Most of the times I get EMPed when flying the biplane, I find that stalling and firing both the main and secondary weapons at the same time results in a win for me.

I wouldn't mind if it would last a little less tough.

[Demuyt]

Some times I get real angry when I get emped, but in the end think of what a loopy vs biplane would be without the emp.

[Triped]

EMP is an interesting, balanced weapon. I wouldn't mind seeing some green perk offer resistance to EMP, though. Maybe rubber hull insulates?

[Sunaku]

I agree with the main post in that EMP is everything but fun. I'm frankly quite surprised it's in this kind of game because when I think of a planes-PVP-game, I mainly think about dogfighting and aiming. Two things EMP wipes out completely from the gameplay.

Originally Posted by nobodyhome

1. EMP means the end of every fight (i.e. loopy will win every time he gets a EMP off onto an opponent)

This is false. There are many ways that you could still win or survive if you get emped. This includes pressing shaking the loopy off with an explodet mine or with bomber backgun, reversing as randa and shooting him, or stalling and turning to f+d the loopy as biplane. Or most oftenly, you survive because your teammates are with you and they shake the loopy off for you.

While the theory of "Just shoot him back !" is seducing on paper, it's nowhere near applicable in game because it's the whole point : you can't. You can't shoot him back, you can't turn properly anymore and your energy regeneration is screwed while the loopy can still dodge as much as he wants your desperate shots and still take you down with the infamous double fire tracking.
Also, I'm not sure advising people to stay in group to avoid dieing from EMP advocates in its favor. Because having to fly with 4-5 people to counter a single weapon kind of speaks for itself.

The thing is that EMP dumbs down the gameplay of the game. You are barely in control of your plane anymore, no matter how skilled you are, you can't dogfight anymore, you just have to sit there and die or take a wall and die.
Which is where I for one think EMP is really unbalanced : hard walls. Most crashes on hard walls come from explosions or EMP and playing there makes these weapons overpowered. Hard walls should be more about flying properly than crashing without much choice and I think lessening their effects would lead to a more interesting gameplay.

On the advice of dodging EMP, while it may be true in TBD, as a mainly ball player I find it not an option. The pace of the game being much faster, including closer respawn areas and faster respawn rates, you will be EMP'ed and most likely die before being able to strike back.
Sure EMP is a nice looking unique weapon but I'm curious how it's supposed to be balanced when it can lead to 1 or more crashes or easiest blindfolded frags for so few energy used.
The main problem aside the not-really-fun part is that it's an AOE utility and a weapon at the same time, because it often leads to kills just by itself.

Now enough with the rant and let's try some suggestions :
I think it should only make flying a little harder, not the whole crazy bunch it is right now which negates all flying. Something more in line with a negative flexi wings maybe.
Also, EMP being an AOE, it is potentially extremely powerful by essence, so maybe reducing its area or just making it a single target weapon would help.
Of course, I would prefer another weapon not messing so much with flying and let dogfights be dogfights.

[as red as black]

Originally Posted by Sunaku

I agree with the main post in that EMP is everything but fun. I'm frankly quite surprised it's in this kind of game because when I think of a planes-PVP-game, I mainly think about dogfighting and aiming. Two things EMP wipes out completely from the gameplay.



While the theory of "Just shoot him back !" is seducing on paper, it's nowhere near applicable in game because it's the whole point : you can't. You can't shoot him back, you can't turn properly anymore and your energy regeneration is screwed while the loopy can still dodge as much as he wants your desperate shots and still take you down with the infamous double fire tracking.
Also, I'm not sure advising people to stay in group to avoid dieing from EMP advocates in its favor. Because having to fly with 4-5 people to counter a single weapon kind of speaks for itself.

The thing is that EMP dumbs down the gameplay of the game. You are barely in control of your plane anymore, no matter how skilled you are, you can't dogfight anymore, you just have to sit there and die or take a wall and die.
Which is where I for one think EMP is really unbalanced : hard walls. Most crashes on hard walls come from explosions or EMP and playing there makes these weapons overpowered. Hard walls should be more about flying properly than crashing without much choice and I think lessening their effects would lead to a more interesting gameplay.

On the advice of dodging EMP, while it may be true in TBD, as a mainly ball player I find it not an option. The pace of the game being much faster, including closer respawn areas and faster respawn rates, you will be EMP'ed and most likely die before being able to strike back.
Sure EMP is a nice looking unique weapon but I'm curious how it's supposed to be balanced when it can lead to 1 or more crashes or easiest blindfolded frags for so few energy used.
The main problem aside the not-really-fun part is that it's an AOE utility and a weapon at the same time, because it often leads to kills just by itself.

Now enough with the rant and let's try some suggestions :
I think it should only make flying a little harder, not the whole crazy bunch it is right now which negates all flying. Something more in line with a negative flexi wings maybe.
Also, EMP being an AOE, it is potentially extremely powerful by essence, so maybe reducing its area or just making it a single target weapon would help.
Of course, I would prefer another weapon not messing so much with flying and let dogfights be dogfights.

tl;dr

BOMBER IS OP!!!!!!!!!! DISCUSS

edit: to sunaku....look how massive that big ass blue quote box is...it's scary

[mled]

Originally Posted by Radium

Think about how a loopy would do in a dogfight without EMP.
A single loopy missile doesn't do much damage, and loopy can get off how many missiles in a second? 3? Maybe 4? It would lose to almost every plane without EMP

LOL at this!!
ya one single but double?.. put in the fact that loopies speed makes the missiles come faster and they follow planes ohoh and how many they can fire in a couple of seconds? i mean really???

[Sunaku]

Originally Posted by as red as black

tl;dr

BOMBER IS OP!!!!!!!!!! DISCUSS

edit: to sunaku....look how massive that big ass blue quote box is...it's scary

You might notice the word "discussion" where the topic is located. Find a dictionary and look up the definiton, it will be great fun for you !

[Valandil]

Every plane is unique !
The loopy without EMP is not any more a loopy and I don't think that made it stronger than another plane ...

[mled]

Originally Posted by Valandil

Every plane is unique !
The loopy without EMP is not any more a loopy and I don't think that made it stronger than another plane ...

well keep EMP but at least make it a tiny bit weaker? like bombers turn speed? <i havent cared for that>since im a bomber but having at least 3 loopies per team with double fire...its just...Just..JUST.. HORRIBLE!! it scares me!!!
i give up playing miranda unless the ppl are complete noobs even then getting EMPed 3 times in a row renders you useless

[Flyngbanana]

Having a green perk like rubber rull negate some of the negative effects of emp would probably solve a lot of peoples complaints about emp.

[Vania]

Problem with EMP: You cant stop your plane.

I dont mind not being able to turn, use boost, or having energy reduced...
but cant you at least let me slow down my plane so I dont hit a wall??

[Tosconi]

to be honest I don't see any big problem with emp. It's an adequate loopy weapon. Loopy itself is quite easy to kill, so why nerf something, which is not dominating the (competitive) game? Is it getting on someone nerves? well maybe - but mine are healthy and I don't really care when i got emped and killed - it happens not that often.

[Jayfourke]

Originally Posted by Flyngbanana

Having a green perk like rubber rull negate some of the negative effects of emp would probably solve a lot of peoples complaints about emp.

Nooo. It already frustrates me to no end when I EMP someone so that they end up crashing into the ground, but are saved by that detestably over-easy rubber hull.

[elxir]

Originally Posted by Tosconi

to be honest I don't see any big problem with emp. It's an adequate loopy weapon. Loopy itself is quite easy to kill, so why nerf something, which is not dominating the (competitive) game? Is it getting on someone nerves? well maybe - but mine are healthy and I don't really care when i got emped and killed - it happens not that often.

p much this. it's incredibly annoying, and a team of loopys can wreak havoc on a randa. but hey, that's just strategy imo

[Flyngbanana]

Originally Posted by Vania

Problem with EMP: You cant stop your plane.

I dont mind not being able to turn, use boost, or having energy reduced...
but cant you at least let me slow down my plane so I dont hit a wall??

+1!!!! My biggest pet peeve with emp. This is just overkill. Without this I wouldn't have a problem with it.

Originally Posted by Jayfourke

Nooo. It already frustrates me to no end when I EMP someone so that they end up crashing into the ground, but are saved by that detestably over-easy rubber hull.

Imagine how explodet users feel.

[mlopes]

Since the update, I've been noticing that when EMPed I crash a lot more that I used to. I think I'm getting used to the new biplane maneuverability and when it lacks that maneuverability I miscalculate the turning ratio, ending up crashed against a wall.

Maybe EMP should last a little less or have a slightly weaker effect.

[Boko]

Loopy is not dominating the competitive scene imo, so please don't nerf it.