BALL depends primarily on kill skills

[tgleaf]

Controversial, I know. The conversation comes up again and again in-game. My team will be losing 3-1 and I'll ask the worst ratio player (e.g. 3-12) to work on kills and/or switch planes) and that player will say something to the effect of "kills don't matter in BALL."

If you look at the ratios for a completed game, almost all of the time, the team with better k/d ratios wins. And as far as players -- such as randas -- who score several goals with a low ratio, in my opinion, they couldn't do that most of the time without a supporting cast of high-ratio killers doing the dirty work.

I've had this comment come up when my team is winning, too. Someone with a low ratio will comment that kills don't matter, but our team at that moment will be dominating the k/d ratios say 2-1 over the other team. They do matter!

I'm hoping a few BALL pros will chime in. I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but I know for {ball}, we learned this lesson quite a few months ago when we first played against ACE. We were the top BALL clan by far back in the day, and ACE wiped us across the map, winning easily on almost every map. We were stunned. It came down to k/d ratios, for the most part.

Since then, {ball} members have been working on getting more kills. If you look at the top ladder players, I think you'll find that it's very hard to get to the top without being a skilled killer.

And I'm not talking about ratio wh*res here. It's very possible to go 20-3 on a BALL map and _not help your team in the least_. I'm talking about having good BALL strategy (map control, passing, loose ball handling, defensive clears, etc.) AND being good at killing. A player that can go 15-10 or even 15-15 is worlds more helpful to a BALL team than a player that is 5-10 or 2-6 at the end of the game.

(This post can also be found at http://tinyurl.com/ballkills)

[as red as black]

like I always always always say in game.....(those who play with me would have to agree)

PRESS F MOTHER****ERS

[nobodyhome]

less holding UP more holding F, for sure.

[Nikon]

I always have agreed with this tg! A ton of people have brought this up when I am around too. They will say kills don't score goals, and I will say but if the other team is dead the whole time you don't have to have any ball handling, passing skills to win the game. You just kill the whole team make a break away and score.

[tgleaf]

Originally Posted by Nikon

I always have agreed with this tg! A ton of people have brought this up when I am around too. They will say kills don't score goals, and I will say but if the other team is dead the whole time you don't have to have any ball handling, passing skills to win the game. You just kill the whole team make a break away and score.

Well, I've been trying a little experiment lately. When the comment comes up and I am leading our team in kills with a strong ratio, I spec for a few goals. Inevitably, my team starts losing. And that's not to say it's all about me... any player leading the team in kills could spectate with similar results.

[Greekjr14]

Originally Posted by tgleaf

And as far as players -- such as randas -- who score several goals with a low ratio, in my opinion, they couldn't do that most of the time without a supporting cast of high-ratio killers doing the dirty work.

amen amen amen amen

[York]

I don't know if i can consider myself a "pro", but I do know the answer to this question. KILLS MATTER. Just because one randa may not be focusing just on killing (blln) there are people on that team who will be having huge ratios (sunako). I always try to have a equal balance. Kill everyone, then score. This is hard because a team can kill every enemy especially because of the quick spawns. However, kill always matter. They matter most on the offense. I have seen MANY TIMES when one player will get a quad kill while his team has the ball in the enemies zone and the team scores. This is because over half the team is dead and it can lead to easy goals!

[Jayfourke]

When it comes to ball games, I suspend all self-preservation tendancies in favour of winning. Balls to the ratio.

[elxir]

i knew i would regret deleting the pictures 3 diff games where 6 of us beat 6 tbd guys at ball despite being massacred in kills

[wolf'j'max]

Originally Posted by as red as black

like I always always always say in game.....(those who play with me would have to agree)

PRESS F MOTHER****ERS

I had to read that comment alot a while ago.

Tg i actually start to agree. First i had a pretty nice ratio with my explo etc. But wen i started playing anchor i saw killing really matters. A randa in ball is almost OP when played good. But if a team plays and it totally doesn't support this baller he doesnt have a chance. Biplane,explodet and bomber have a fair chance at going through but the light planes who take good care of the ball dont. So yes, killing matters.

[tgleaf]

Originally Posted by elxir

i knew i would regret deleting the pictures 3 diff games where 6 of us beat 6 tbd guys at ball despite being massacred in kills

Not to worry, I have screenshots of the same thing! =P

So yeah, there are exceptions to any rule. If you get a team of TBDers who are good at killing but don't really understand BALL, their ratios will look impressive, but they will lose badly. I've seen that several times. It doesn't necessarily disprove my point, though.

By the way, if you add 1-2 good ballers to that TBD team in place of the killers, that team will most likely win. Seen that, too.

[drunkguava]

Originally Posted by Jayfourke

When it comes to ball games, I suspend all self-preservation tendancies in favour of winning. Balls to the ratio.

i think the point that is trying to be made by the op is that self-preservation and killing can often be what leads to wins... ofc there are times when it can be good to dive for a loose ball even if it means you will likely die soon after, but that is just what separates a smart ball-player from a ratio-whore.

[ufo]

Originally Posted by York

I don't know if i can consider myself a "pro"

lolololololo ..o the irony


I go about 1-2 every game, killin is important tho f'sho.

[Sunaku]

Originally Posted by York

sunako

... who ? :P
Thanks but I already have a hard time maintaining a 1:1 ratio in ladder. Actually the topic is the reason I stopped playing randa : sucked at killing with it and if your team can't support a carrier-only it becomes really frustrating.
Most points have been made, the main one being that a dead opposite team makes it that easier to score. Maybe I'll add that one : it depends a lot on the map played. A clustered map like cave will most likely give the killing team an edge (or boredom will decide it eventually) while a more opened map like darkwar will allow some interesting passing and long shots which can make the difference.

[nesnl]

I have always said that ball priorities are in this order: Killing, Staying Alive, Getting the Ball. The biggest problem that people have in the ball mode is the same problem that 6-year-olds have when they play a game like soccer, which is they all mob the ball (except of course the 6-year-olds aren't dying to grenade fire).

I think that half of the problem that most people have is the "hold up" syndrome. They see the ball and hold up in order to get to it as fast as possible. The obvious flaw in this is that once they get there or at any point along the way they have no energy to fire their guns. If people sat back and thought about shooting the guy they are racing for the ball instead, they would then realize that the ball is still going to be there after the enemy is dead. Of course there are times when racing to the ball makes sense but in my opinion these situations are limited (for the most part) to either a situation where you can grab the ball and have a high chance of scoring as soon as you get it, a situation where you can grab the ball and pass to a teammate as soon as you get it (even if it results in your death), and probably the most important a situation where you are outnumbered and need to clear the ball immediately.

The other half of the problem is related to situation awareness and your position on the field of play. Again, this relates to the 6-year-old ball mobbing problem. Most people assume that the best place to be is as close to the ball as possible. So some people have solved the first problem and don't continually hold up the entire game, but they still think that they must always be flying directly at whoever has the ball. The ball is most often the center of fire for both teams, which means that the closer you are to the ball, the higher percentage you have that you are going to die. Having situation awareness of common outlet passes or clear spots is vital to flying your plane in the most opitmal spot in order to best assist your team. This part is not something that can be taught as much as it must be learned on your own.

Once you combine these two principles then that's when your game will really open up.

[tgleaf]

The only thing I would add to Maimer's post is that another good strategy is to attack the possible pass receiver(s) when the ball carrier is heading your way. Stay out of the line of fire (e.g. away from the ball) but kill any planes that can receive a pass from the ball carrier. That shuts down the opposing team's options really quickly.

[Ajuk999]

I've always played {ball} this way. I also have been called a "ratio who*e" I agree with Nikon. If there are several players playing as "Ballers" and several other teammates playing as offense (killing the opponent planes) the team has 80% chance of winning the game.

[Deathblade]

People that weren't bad at ball have always known this.

[TRUEPAiN]

I'd say..

#1. Killing is important. Give everyone hell, even if you're just passing by. Leave them a gift with EMP on it.

#2. Kill towards your objective. Once you're done killing.. KILL SOME MORE! Don't let anyone slide by you, because they WILL comeback and you'll regret not finishing what you started.

#3. When you kill the ball carrier, and someone retrieves the ball, CLEAR opponents for the carrier.

I see too many people just circling around their own teammates like sharks waiting for the ball to drop, just so they can pick it up and have the same fate. Especially out of the gate on a ball set.

and lastly..

when you're in front of a goal, yet fat whale is in your path..

Attack it. Don't just give up and hand the ball over.

I think everyone can apply this video to altitude.

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=fQDxxbNJ2Js

The most aggressive teams win, IMO!

Killing is important +1 LEAF!

[Kuja900]

Oh I will be proving this to you all in a few days, there is a storm on the horizon.

[Boko]

I wrote a whole story about finding the balance between killing and ballrunning (keeping the respawn rate of ball in mind) and that TA randa's are able to get a decent ratio while actually helping the team but tgleaf is right: in the end people who only run the ball and die 1 sec later (players who go 5-10 or 2-6 at the end of the game) will hurt the team.

I'd like to see a lot of players read this and adapt it in ladder, that should make ladder (and leagues I dunno?) way more fun. Let's not bring public servers in to this btw.

[gemigemi]

I've been changing my playstyle through my Altitude career and I agree with the general idea that everyone is having here. Playing more slowly, not always rushing to the ball, and killing a lot are important things to achieve victory. I've been getting very good results with changing my play style from aggressive ball hogger to more patient and waiting killer, waiting for the enemy to pick the ball first and then killing them, and aiding my team to push through the field by keeping enemies down. It's much easier for the 1-2 ball carriers to work with the ball when the other 4 members are working on keeping the enemy team dead. If you can push the conflict from the middle line to the opponents area behind their spawn and keep it there by killing them well then you will eventually score, even if you don't concentrate on the ball too much.

[CCN]

It is efficient to kill but you need someone to move the ball. Im happy playing a suicideranda but more then one in a team is suicide.

Its just bad when you have terrible people trying to rush the ball, or instead of making efficient passes carrying it.

[matattack]

where i see the issue of killing being very important..they did give our planes guns for a reason.......

and although this is the case, i find that moving the ball forward is equally as important. i dont think that it is fully biased towards killing..passing and shooting skills are important as well

in all, i dont really see that big of a problem (besides the one maimer stated) with ball..at least for now

[Dougie]

I think the kills stats in altitude ball is similar to possession in football. Its a benefit to have the majority of it, but it doesn't guarantee you a win! You still need clinical ball carriers, passers and finishers.

I'd like to see more stats in altitude overall, help us analyse the games a bit better!

[Boko]

Originally Posted by Dougie

I'd like to see more stats in altitude overall, help us analyse the games a bit better!

Velocity graphs and weapon usage graphs would be so awesome Pl0x Karl and Lam, I kno you guys have so much spare time lounging in ur hottubs!

[as red as black]

most important things:

1. pushing the ball towards the opponents goal/ clearing / mid-map control
2. killing hoardes of people for easy power plays
3. staying alive so you can be useful
4. passing otherwise people will bitch