ball_Atmosphere

[mlopes]

Originally Posted by elxir

if you want a seesaw go to the playground

Exactly my point, if you just want to go back and forth mindlessly you're better playing on a seesaw.

I'll try to vote this map some times today on the =AIR= server to provide a feedback on how people feel about the map.


Ok, I got some opinions although I managed to passe the voting only once.
Some people complained about the center top triangle tip being to dark and barely visible, others complained about the map being to short. Other opinion that add some consensus was that the middle tends to be a little messi. There were some complains about names on the planes not being clearly visible.

Most people said they like the map.

[Nikon]

Check Top Post.

V.0 V.1 And V.2 are now all available for download.

[trendy11one]

YES YES YES! Press YES everyone. I love this map. Games here fast, intense. And bounce shots makes real interesting effect, not like lc, where u can simply make big cluster**** under central tower.

[Nikon]

Originally Posted by trendy11one

YES YES YES! Press YES everyone. I love this map. Games here fast, intense. And bounce shots makes real interesting effect, not like lc, where u can simply make big cluster**** under central tower.

What he said.

That it would become an official map AND get on the custom_random rotation in ladder.

[mlopes]

Maybe it's because I've been playing more biplane than whale lately, or maybe I just got better teams, but the last few times I played this map, it seemed better than I remember it being.

[MajorPayne257]

The only thing that's still bothering me are the team colors. They look the same on this map.

[trendy11one]

No:
JWhatever, kirbmasta, mlopes, SPeciaL
Maybe:
Blind Pilot, Considered, leggomyeggo, MajorPayne257, nobodyhome, robinb98, Spartan

I think, those ones should say, why they dont like this map, otherwise map will stuck.

[sunshineduck]

pro tip when creating a poll like this having an ambiguous answer like maybe is not going to produce anything of substance and will only hinder the map's progress

[Nikon]

Originally Posted by sunshineduck

pro tip when creating a poll like this having an ambiguous answer like maybe is not going to produce anything of substance and will only hinder the map's progress

I wonder if a moderator can change that.

[leggomyeggo]

Originally Posted by trendy11one

No:
JWhatever, kirbmasta, mlopes, SPeciaL
Maybe:
Blind Pilot, Considered, leggomyeggo, MajorPayne257, nobodyhome, robinb98, Spartan

I think, those ones should say, why they dont like this map, otherwise map will stuck.

I said maybe because the map seems odd to play on, but there's nothing I could see to change about it. So really, if there wasn't a "Maybe" option, I would have chosen "Yes".

[XX1]

well one thing i noticed is that the unusual spawns, unlike in other maps where you would have like a little cave where your team would spawn at then fly into the battlefield in this map your completely open when you spawn...

[beefheart]

Originally Posted by leggomyeggo

I said maybe because the map seems odd to play on

That's the great thing about it, it is unique. I feel that a lot of people don't like a map only because they are not used playing on it and it feels strange.
I admit this map has a whole different feel about it then any other out there, which is why it should be especially included in the official map pool imo.

[mlopes]

Originally Posted by trendy11one

No:
JWhatever, kirbmasta, mlopes, SPeciaL
Maybe:
Blind Pilot, Considered, leggomyeggo, MajorPayne257, nobodyhome, robinb98, Spartan

I think, those ones should say, why they dont like this map, otherwise map will stuck.

I posted why I though it shouldn't go official at the time, but my opinion changed a little overtime, and I'm now more of a maybe. And my justification is simple, if it was not clear on my previous post, I used to play more whale at the time of my "no", and I'm playing more biplane and acid loopy now. What I found was that I didn't like the map much when playing with heavy planes, but it seems way better to me now that I'm playing it with light planes.

The justification for this is simple, the map is very open and has a cluttered zones with small obstacles close to each other. So whales have almost nothing to throw planes against and yet have an hard time maneuvering on the obstacle zones. Light planes, such as loopy or flexy bipi can maneuver easily on those zones and even use it as protection against spam. So no places to be thrown against and protection against the spam, if you're light this is heaven for you.

Why maybe? Maybe because I like to play it as light, but not a clear "yes" cause I think it may not be suited for whales and maybe bombers.

[Nikon]

@ Beefy - YES, exactly. I tried making it bigger to make it more like other maps so people would like it more, but the majority (including me) liked it smaller. The way that it was completely different from any other map. And that's why it's such a love/hate map.

@ mlopes - I disagree about the whale and bomber stuff, I play all five planes bomber/whale/loopy especially and I have found that whale and bomber work extremely well. And I think that all planes work very well because everyone says exactly what your saying, "Whales don't work on this map" "Whales are OP on this map" "Bomber is OP on this map" "loopy stinks on this map" "loopy and biplane are great on this map" I've gotten so many mixed things like this that I just think that all planes work well. And that has been true so far to me.

[leggomyeggo]

Well, after playing it a few more times in ladder, I love this map. +1 to getting it in the custom random rotation.

[blln4lyf]

Originally Posted by mlopes

I posted why I though it shouldn't go official at the time, but my opinion changed a little overtime, and I'm now more of a maybe. And my justification is simple, if it was not clear on my previous post, I used to play more whale at the time of my "no", and I'm playing more biplane and acid loopy now. What I found was that I didn't like the map much when playing with heavy planes, but it seems way better to me now that I'm playing it with light planes.

The justification for this is simple, the map is very open and has a cluttered zones with small obstacles close to each other. So whales have almost nothing to throw planes against and yet have an hard time maneuvering on the obstacle zones. Light planes, such as loopy or flexy bipi can maneuver easily on those zones and even use it as protection against spam. So no places to be thrown against and protection against the spam, if you're light this is heaven for you.

Why maybe? Maybe because I like to play it as light, but not a clear "yes" cause I think it may not be suited for whales and maybe bombers.

I thought this as well(from a randa's perspective) but then guava and tg as a whale and whoever else I was playing with at the time said it was a great whale/heavy map. When you find lights saying the map is a good light map and heavies saying it is a good heavy map then the balance is usually there.

[arty]

I actually think this map works great for all 5 planes. I should not comment on randas because i still cant mess with the folks from outter space. My reamote ownes on this map and bomber spam has lots of options IMO.Anyone who likes to snipe from long distance is probably not happy with the limited options but i like it. I wish it was easier to get to your goal after spawn but i think that is my opinion on most maps(i am a little strange.. OK alot)
it should totally be official since it is unique and good.
GJ NIKon

[Tekn0]

I've played this map a few times, and again today in Dojo (iirc). It plays really well, no major clusterfk areas, and I really love the graphics (looks very professional).

As a randa I like this map. But I think good whales can do pretty well too if they get into good positions. The top and bottom areas are obviously the key to running the ball, the middle areas tend to be underused. This isn't a bad thing, it's a nice refreshing change from grotto and crashroids.

Question: are the plane colours intentionally chosen to blend with the background? It's not a major concern but there are a few areas where it's difficult to pick up the colour.

[mlopes]

Originally Posted by Nikon

And I think that all planes work very well because everyone says exactly what your saying, "Whales don't work on this map" "Whales are OP on this map" "Bomber is OP on this map" "loopy stinks on this map" "loopy and biplane are great on this map" I've gotten so many mixed things like this that I just think that all planes work well. And that has been true so far to me.

Maybe there's something to do with play style.

Originally Posted by leggomyeggo

Well, after playing it a few more times in ladder, I love this map. +1 to getting it in the custom random rotation.

+1 to that also, a few games in ladder will help see the general opinion on the map. Hope you have better luck adding the map to rotation than I had trying to convince them to update my map's version on that ladder test thing, I sent them 3 messages on the ladder maps thread, and I'm still waiting for the update for a couple of months.

Originally Posted by arty

Anyone who likes to snipe from long distance is probably not happy with the limited options but i like it.

And to reinforce what Nikon said, I get very good ratios sniping with HC on this map.

[Nikon]

Originally Posted by Tekn0

Question: are the plane colours intentionally chosen to blend with the background? It's not a major concern but there are a few areas where it's difficult to pick up the colour.

Well, Yes I chose them to match the theme. But I didn't intend them to be a problem. I personally can see the difference with ease but just a few (like yourself) have a problem with it. So if enough people really can stand it, then I will change the colors, but for the time being just use color blind mode, or parafalse

[trendy11one]

I tried this map many times, vote it in dojo, maybe in air server, dun remember. Also i play this one in ladder once. So i post in this thread again in some reasons.
-planes. I feel comfortable with loopy and bomber. I love, that u can emp through some wall, this can help when defending form low route. Also find some nice routes for spam, but map very fast, dont give any chance to stop and spam.
-using central part, this can be helpful to change direction, some randas can hide here. Give option to wait teammates and perform good pass.
-whales. In ladder we play against team whale.4 whales(=TheSquid&theWhale=, [PR]Andy and 2 others). Must say they pwn us very well, but we still win, coz speed of this map makes too heavy team weak against fast planes.
-Nikon. He ask me to post here again.
I think, this map should be in random rotation.

[Nikon]

Originally Posted by trendy11one

I tried this map many times, vote it in dojo, maybe in air server, dun remember. Also i play this one in ladder once. So i post in this thread again in some reasons.
-planes. I feel comfortable with loopy and bomber. I love, that u can emp through some wall, this can help when defending form low route. Also find some nice routes for spam, but map very fast, dont give any chance to stop and spam.
-using central part, this can be helpful to change direction, some randas can hide here. Give option to wait teammates and perform good pass.
-whales. In ladder we play against team whale.4 whales(=TheSquid&theWhale=, [PR]Andy and 2 others). Must say they pwn us very well, but we still win, coz speed of this map makes too heavy team weak against fast planes.
-Nikon. He ask me to post here again.
I think, this map should be in random rotation.

Thanks for the feedback.

And sorry to everyone that I bother and ask them to leave feedback, I just really want to know what people think, if it's good enough to get on ladder random rotation, And what I should change if it's not.

[tgleaf]

Please note that the poll in the OP has been replaced. If you voted before, you may now vote on the new question.

[Nikon]

Yes, thank you tgleaf.

I wanted to have a re-vote with just yes and no, no maybe. So please go up there a vote, would be much appreciated.

Vote!

[trendy11one]

Voters: 0. You have already voted on this poll

wutchars???

[tgleaf]

Originally Posted by trendy11one

wutchars???

Grr... I hate when I make a modnoob mistake. Brb.

[Nikon]

Now it just says that the poll is closed.

[leggomyeggo]

Originally Posted by Nikon

Now it just says that the poll is closed.

Just be thankful he didn't accidently delete your thread .

[Nikon]

Originally Posted by leggomyeggo

Just be thankful he didn't accidently delete your thread .

Hahahaha, how mean. But yeah, you better not do that tgleaf ;-)

[Tekn0]

Originally Posted by Nikon

Well, Yes I chose them to match the theme. But I didn't intend them to be a problem. I personally can see the difference with ease but just a few (like yourself) have a problem with it. So if enough people really can stand it, then I will change the colors, but for the time being just use color blind mode, or parafalse

I'm actually okay with picking up the colours, but just wanted to know if the colour choice was intentional.

[Nikon]

New poll, Here please vote

[Sunaku]

I couldn't play as many serious games as I'd like but I'll try to give some feedback on v1. I find it hard to articulate precise points about this map because at the moment, there is a lot of open space which doesn't really give a unique feeling.

The current obstacles are a bit too small and too thin to orient the gameplay in a particular direction. In this state, the lack of actual paths doesn't allow for real strategic play. As a result, I feel like atmosphere plays a bit too much like football.
It wouldn't necessarily need giant obstacles like Core, but you could take inspiration from Darkwar in the way the curves are placed to force players to make choices.
I also feel like v2 (link dead by the way) is a bit more interesting with better spawn points and the middle diamond to cut the spamfest.

Overall, I think a more specific design, in the way the objects are shaped and placed, would give the map a stronger identity.
I know it would require a substantial overhaul but I also know you can make something awesome, so I hope you'll continue to work on it!

[Nikon]

I see what your saying. But I'm not going to make any changes until MANY people say the same thing. I've made that mistake before.

[rojo]

Nikon, see my PM.
---
Edit: here's what I sent Nikon. He requested I post it to see if people agree/disagree.

played it in ladder once I believe, and I played it in dojo quite a few times with some upper level people. I've also played it in a caps game. I'm whale biased on this map.

What's to like:
Layout lends itself even vertical play. Ball doesn't get sucked to the bottom of the map. Passing upwards is a viable tactic because of spawns and not a clear way for someone to run into the net. Item spawns are well placed on each end of the map, and in center. There are good bottom passing lanes. Plenty of bounce shots. Great visuals.

What's not to like:
The 'neutral' areas between goals and middle make maneuvering explodet and non-flexi bips very difficult. Favours randas. Item spawn in this area nearly impossible to get and use quickly when whale. Besides bottom, there are very few passing lanes. Lots of carrying, little passing. Item spawns are tough to maneuver in and out of as a whale.

Putative play:
Play is definitely different depending on plane comp. TA will dominate with a good pushing team, loopy will do well with fast break goals along bottom. Middle of the map is whale and bomber friendly, but maneuvering in these areas with whale are difficult when fired upon by EMP/thermo.

Planes:
HC will not fair as well as other biplanes on this map because of map 'shielding' shots.
Whale is both positively and negatively affected by layout. Maneuvering is heavily hindered, but passing through the middle is a deathtrap.
Loopy is loopy.
Randa (esp. TA) is likely heavily favored on this map.
Bomber is bomber. Plenty of chokepoints.

Possible suggestions:
Expanding the first 3... blocks right below spawn out to equal the other 3 behind spawn. This would improve the ability for many planes to fly through but would still be an important choke, creates more passing lanes. Move the 'smooth arrow' before the goal out a small amount to allow easier passage for item spawn. MOve the bar below the spawn back/up to allow the expansion of the first 3 blocks.

[Mt.Vesuvius]

I like the layout of the map, there are great bounce spots and tricky spots to maneuver thru. I like playin thermo here

[darknietzsche]

For the most part I have no problems with the map. In fact, I think it is rather unique in that I see that it requires slightly different strategies in my opinion than normal bigger maps in the rotation currently. I at first hated the small openings from the blocks (but after some pilot lessons XP) I have come to enjoy it very much. THanks Nikon for what I consider a great map.

[Nikon]

Beta Update!

Okay, so I made some changes but I don't want to have it be updated on servers yet. I just want people to play it on there own, and tell me what they think (or put it on their server just don't replace the old one)

And after I get a little bit of feedback I will decide if I want it to be the next update, or go back to V.2.

^^^^^ So go check it out, up there ^^^^^

[tgleaf]

This may be the wrong thread, but I'm gonna post here anyway. I've been avoiding commenting on this map 'cause Nikon and I are tight and people might suspect he'd asked me to give it a favorable review. Which is not the case. Bonus points if you can correct my grammar there.

The map works. We just played it on ladder and it felt very balanced. I think the score was 6-2, but it didn't feel like a blowout. All planes are equally strong with TAs having a slight advantage, but what map doesn't give them an advantage?

People like the map and I frankly haven't heard any good reasons why it shouldn't be official. I'd say show me why this map doesn't work and then we'll talk.

[Tekn0]

I haven't played the latest Beta (v3?) it looks good but seems not so subtle changes. The larger lower walls should restrict randa runs from the bottom a wee bit more, but I'll only know when I play it.

We should vote this map more on maps like AIR EU when they update it there and get some good testing.

[Nikon]

Originally Posted by Tekn0

I haven't played the latest Beta (v3?) it looks good but seems not so subtle changes. The larger lower walls should restrict randa runs from the bottom a wee bit more, but I'll only know when I play it.

We should vote this map more on maps like AIR EU when they update it there and get some good testing.

Yeah, I'm not so sure about V.3 if it's going to actually be the next update or not. But yes, mlopes if you reading this, It would be awesome if you put V.3 on {arr} servers but still leave V.2 on, that would be fantastic.