ball_risk

[krawz]

ball_risk has been updated to version 0.21

A few notes about the map and gameplay

• You can wrap around from one side of the map to the other by flying to the edges of the map and beyond.
• You can shoot the ball up into the marked red areas on the ceilings and there are hidden tunnels which the ball travels through. Only the ball. If you shoot the ball into the tunnels at bad angles, the ball will go wherever it feels like going.
• There are tunnel diagrams displayed on the diamond objects. They are a copy/paste job, so they should be exact (albeit, a little small).

Download link updated.

ball_risk - Map Download Links
Original Map
ball_risk (v 0.17b)
ball_risk (v 0.18)
ball_risk (v 0.21)
Edit: This map is running on the Ball Dojo servers. It is not in the map rotation but can be voted for.

ball_risk - New Version Screenshots
ball_risk_021 (Larger Image)

[XX1]

The name is interesting- risk. I really like the clever ball pathway to get the ball out of your goal area to the people wh ohave spawned. I sure hope that people will get inspired by this idea and create their own sneaky designs. As for the map, i think that the top part of the map will overtake the bottom part. I think that the middle map and up will be used the most since the goals are at the top and that's the fastes way. If you were to make your own shapes and blocks instead of using darwars. This would add more originality to your map.

I will have more comments after i played it a little more

-XX2

[mlopes]

I like the purple version. Not quite sure about the location of the goal areas, they're very high and have a lot of protection around them, meaning that not only is hard to get near the goal but you have to do it while climbing. Can be fun, or can generate 2 very frustrating hour games.

[tomato man]

I love this map!! want run it!!

[krawz]

Originally Posted by XX1

...As for the map, i think that the top part of the map will overtake the bottom part. I think that the middle map and up will be used the most since the goals are at the top and that's the fastes way. If you were to make your own shapes and blocks instead of using darwars. This would add more originality to your map.

I will have more comments after i played it a little more

-XX2

Thanks for the feedback, XX2. The top half of the map definitely gets more play than the bottom. So far, the bottom seems to be adequate for moving the ball laterally due to all the cover provided, but it can definitely slow things down if you dont have enough pass support to move the ball back upwards quickly.

I would like to add my own parts instead of using darkwar, but I'm graphically challenged. I can barely create a recognizable stick figure. I have someone who may help in this area though.

Please let me know if you have any more suggestions

[krawz]

Originally Posted by mlopes

I like the purple version. Not quite sure about the location of the goal areas, they're very high and have a lot of protection around them, meaning that not only is hard to get near the goal but you have to do it while climbing. Can be fun, or can generate 2 very frustrating hour games.

Yeah, I can see some potential for drawn-out games. It needs some 6on6 or 7on7 testing, which I haven't had yet. There are some things I have in mind for tweaking if games seem too difficult to score on, such as respawn timers for wall powerups, respawn locations for planes, and some other things. Also, the gap in the walls beneath the goals is at an angle which allows lateral shots to enter the protected zones, which so far is helping to move the ball up there more easily, but I may tweak it even further if needed.

[Ajuk999]

I really enjoyed playing this map. Although I don't know if the chute at the top of the map will allow it to become an Official Map.

[Boko]

I liked playing this and it was some fun. But there's no long shots (that's just me QQing) and I guess with a bunch of good players really trying It'd be too hard to get to the goal and the match would last forever.

[Greekjr14]

To me, when I played it it seemed that the top, middle, and bottom portion of the map were all equal. It all depends how you move it through each path. Making teh goals high up will help players learn how to move the ball and how to climb to the goal better (becuase most maps are easier going from the top). The graphics and name are just awesome. Also, even thought there arent any long shots that you can make. There are plenty of bounce shots (I was experimenting on it and found some pretty crazy shots that krawz showed me too.) I hope other servers can put this map on them. This map truely is a great one.

TheGenesis

[drunkguava]

i actually realllly like this map. it's different and fun. the changes i would make would be to expand the goal area so there is not such a small entrance and remove the wall powerup that is over there. It is unnecessary and actually takes away from the game play bc it makes it much easier for the defense to defend the goal. now i only played 3v3 or smething, so i'm not sure how it would play 6v6 but i would like to give it a try after you fixed those things. right now the goal is wayy too easily defended in 6v6 bc of the small entrance and the wall powerup.

[krawz]

Originally Posted by drunkguava

i actually realllly like this map. it's different and fun. the changes i would make would be to expand the goal area so there is not such a small entrance and remove the wall powerup that is over there. It is unnecessary and actually takes away from the game play bc it makes it much easier for the defense to defend the goal. now i only played 3v3 or smething, so i'm not sure how it would play 6v6 but i would like to give it a try after you fixed those things. right now the goal is wayy too easily defended in 6v6 bc of the small entrance and the wall powerup.

Thank you for the suggestions, drunkguava! Actually, the wall powerup is sort of leftover from an earlier design of my map which was much much smaller, when goals were being scored way too easily. How would you feel about my changing the wall powerup to be a random selection between wall/health/shield? Then the wall would be occasionally available, but not constantly, as it is currently.

Edit: Or, I could change the respawn timer on the wall powerup from 12sec to something like 30 sec. I love the editor, so many different options.

[drunkguava]

well i should actually say thanks for designing such a unique map first forgot that in my earlier post.
i would say remove the power-up over there completely. There's already a health behind the goal and that's probably enough. i think it's best not to clutter the goal with another powerup.

[krawz]

Originally Posted by drunkguava

well i should actually say thanks for designing such a unique map first forgot that in my earlier post.
i would say remove the power-up over there completely. There's already a health behind the goal and that's probably enough. i think it's best not to clutter the goal with another powerup.

Thanks! I have removed the static wall powerups in the updated version. I also removed one general powerup, spaced the rest of them out further, widened the entry gaps under the goals and fixed minor aesthetic issues with parts overlapping oddly.

Edit: Also removed 1 spawn point from each side, making it a 6on6 map.

[krawz]

This map is running on my new server which is externally hosted: "Ball Dojo #1" It is not in the map rotation but can be voted for.

[gemigemi]

This map can now be played on {arr} servers #1, #2 and #3. It is not in the rotation though so you need to do a vote to change to it. I hope people will test this out and give feedback in this topic.

[krawz]

Originally Posted by gemigemi

This map can now be played on {arr} servers #1, #2 and #3. It is not in the rotation though so you need to do a vote to change to it. I hope people will test this out and give feedback in this topic.

Cool

I have uploaded an updated version of ball_risk. A link can be found in the original post. Spawn points were moved to the sides, some parts moved around (sorry, it felt necessary), gaps underneath goals widened a bit, the lip of the tunnel exit(outside of goal area) was modified to allow slightly wider angle shots to enter, and some aesthetic changes were made. Additional feedback welcome.

Next version of ball_risk will have reduced width. A lot of people think it feels too wide. I might add more parts/obstacles to the middle too, after some additional playtesting.

Updated version of ball_risk can be voted for on server: Ball Dojo #1 (US)
Download speed will be improved soon, apologies for that.

Cheers.

[gemigemi]

Both versions were played tonight. The 0.12 version was very promising with some cool game play. The lower corners didn't see much play, but that didn't bother us as it's a nice change from the usual maps. Instead of the game being stuck in the lower part it was actually on the top part most of the time. The problems with this version were: 1) Spawn towards your own goal instead of your enemy goal, which means that defense is easier than attacking, and this results in slower games. It also feels awkward. 2) The goal area is slightly too easy to defend, would need a bit larger pathways in the walls around it maybe.

Other than these problems that make attack harder than defense and games last long it was good fun.

The new 0.15 version however left players really cold. It didn't feel that fun, the tunnel on top was never used, and in general it felt too simple as the play was mainly in the top or middle tunnel.

Thus I now left the 0.12 version on the servers as I feel that is the one with more potential.

[krawz]

Originally Posted by gemigemi

Both versions were played tonight. The 0.12 version was very promising with some cool game play. The lower corners didn't see much play, but that didn't bother us as it's a nice change from the usual maps. Instead of the game being stuck in the lower part it was actually on the top part most of the time. The problems with this version were: 1) Spawn towards your own goal instead of your enemy goal, which means that defense is easier than attacking, and this results in slower games. It also feels awkward. 2) The goal area is slightly too easy to defend, would need a bit larger pathways in the walls around it maybe.

Other than these problems that make attack harder than defense and games last long it was good fun.

The new 0.15 version however left players really cold. It didn't feel that fun, the tunnel on top was never used, and in general it felt too simple as the play was mainly in the top or middle tunnel.

Thus I now left the 0.12 version on the servers as I feel that is the one with more potential.

Interesting. Thank you very much for the honest feedback. I get some differing opinions in the 0.15 version. Most has been positive, but not all. I would like to get this map to a point where I can just make minor tweaks, but with the goal up top, it creates some challenges with balancing the game flow, and is difficult to please a large majority of players. All that being said, I think it still needs a lot of work and I'm not totally opposed to going back to some of the design of the 0.12 version.

Could you let me know whether you were playing 6v6, 7v7, etc? Would the 0.15 version be better if the map was not as wide and the goals were closer together, towards the middle more? Maybe more obstacles in the wide open bottom/middle area?

The spawns were moved because the feedback I was getting was almost unanimous, that it was very hard to use the top or the tunnels because enemies would spawn on top of you before you could get a shot/pass off. The ball was also getting stuck occasionally on the bottom and bouncing very erratically off some of the curves on the bottom of the map. It feels easier to me, to move the ball laterally across the bottom in the newer version.

Thus far, I'm getting a lot more feedback from players on my server than the forum, so I appreciate your input here.

Sorry for the novel.

[gemigemi]

The games played were between 4v4 and 6v6.

The problem with the new version was that the spawns in the lower corners forced the play into straight tunnels and the game felt uninteresting. With the older version the game play also moved up and down as players had to avoid spawning opponents etc. If this version would get the spawns reversed to face the enemy side and had a slightly larger gap below the goal we could see how it faired after that.

[krawz]

Originally Posted by gemigemi

The games played were between 4v4 and 6v6.

The problem with the new version was that the spawns in the lower corners forced the play into straight tunnels and the game felt uninteresting. With the older version the game play also moved up and down as players had to avoid spawning opponents etc. If this version would get the spawns reversed to face the enemy side and had a slightly larger gap below the goal we could see how it faired after that.

Alright, thanks. I have started adding concept screenshots to my original post, rather than a new map upload every time I make a change. Feel free to take a look and comment.

[Greekjr14]

I like 17b concept more than 17a for 2 reasons.

1) The spawn points have you face towards the ball, which makes you turn more to offense then being able to easily switch to defense once you spawn. This will make the games shorter.

2) You added more obstacles in the middle which is good becuase it felt just a little too open. Also, the little wall underneath the inside tunnel entrances will cause more use to the tunnels. If you are stuck up there and cannot move the ball down, you will be able to shoot up into the tunnel and hopefully a teamate will also see this and go towards the goal to hopefully score.

This is my favorite version of all. Good job krawz

TheGenesis

[Hollywood]

Agreed Genesis, 17b <3

Also note that it will be easier for defense to have a place to toss the ball with the spawn ceiling. Basically the ball can go in the tunnel, then fall out and bounce on that spawn ceiling thus making the ball move towards the center of the map. At this point either one of the other teams can pick up the ball before or after it reaches mid-point. This will also give the defense more or less time to set up again for the counter. Really depends on the teams though because it can go both ways.

[gemigemi]

I would prefer 17a if the spawns were turned to face the enemy side. As I said earlier spawning backwards means easier defense and longer games. The reason why I otherwise prefer 17a to 17b is that there is an additional path from the upper side of the spawn for the enemy to use for an attack. This actually allows for a nice maneuver where you fly to the red tube, toss the ball in, and fly your own plane above the enemy spawn to the enemy goal area. This concept of flying above the enemy spawn is not present in many maps and in this map I see it as a huge tactical thing that would spice up game play.

[krawz]

ball_risk has had a facelift! I suppose not everyone will like it, but the darkwar parts had to go! It's not real fancy yet, as I'm just getting used to the geometry editor, but it'll evolve more. Version 0.19c is available via the original post, and associated screenshot is attached. I realize things have changed a lot, but I felt it needed more variety in shapes and various other modifications.

After the facelift, this map was renamed to ball_sideshow and they are two separate maps now.

[Goose]

The map definitely has a better feel to it now.. Easier to navigate than before when their were a lot more constricting paths.

[Gorilla Suit]

Hey, so I know this thread is old but I couldn't find a more current one about risk. Anyways, I've played the most recent version a few times in dojo and told Krawz a few times I wanted to see how it plays shifted, but didn't really have a chance to explain myself between goals, so here's an explanation complete with diagrams.

Unless I'm blind Krawz hasn't posted any pictures of the latest incarnation, and I didn't feel like modifying an old one the represent the new and shorter layout, so I just drew it from memory since that's obviously more precise.

So here it is as it is now:

A pretty exact rendition I gotta say. I might have made up the bottom and middle because I'm not sure I've ever actually seen it. It's pretty obvious to anybody who's played it that the most common approaches are from the sides where you flip across the map.

What I'm suggesting is to reorient the map as a test to see if common approaches are affected:
Its the same map, but the crossover point is now where the middle of the map used to be. Setting it up like this can let you see if people like going through the sides for the sneakiness (nobody can see you until you pop through) or if its just because its a short and direct route. I'm also curious if this setup makes it harder because defenders can see you coming, or easier because you can see ahead of yourself to set up passes.

I'm not trying to say setting it up like this will make the map better to play on, I just want to see what happens if you do it, and watching people play on a shifted risk could give you insight for what changes to make from here to make more routes to the goal viable.

[Caz]

At this point I think it's more sneaky to go the long way (middle) instead of the sides. But it's an interesting idea, if not for risk then possibly a new map idea altogether using side-wrap and goals in those positions.

[krawz]

Originally Posted by Gorilla Suit

Hey, so I know this thread is old but I couldn't find a more current one about risk. Anyways, I've played the most recent version a few times in dojo and told Krawz a few times I wanted to see how it plays shifted, but didn't really have a chance to explain myself between goals, so here's an explanation complete with diagrams....

Gorilla,

Thanks for going to the trouble to show us what you meant. I'd like to try out an alternate version of risk closer to your design. I'll plan on it, it may just not be until after all the Thanksgiving stuff


Btw...original/first post in this thread is now updated.