Request to ban ridiculous perk sets in ladder servers

[ufo]

Originally Posted by elxir

the best games are those where all players are taking it reasonably seriously, using an effective combination of planes, and all players are competent enough to see the game developing and respond as needed to help their team.

wouldn't it be great if this were the norm? unfortunately its not, and it never will be. i've been in only a handful of legit tbd ladder games and maybe like 30 good ball games. i've also lost plenty of games because a rev user wasn't exactly playing the most effectively, beagle even comes to mind on several occasions. this doesn't mean that they lost the game for the team.

the game is balanced in such a way that rev is completely viable if used properly, but it seems like enuff people are bitching about it that y'all might get your way. i'd like to hear what nobo thinks before the waaaahmbulance convoy continues, i'm certainly done for now.

[Evan20000]

I think a better solution for this would be just buffing Rev/Dumb bombs and calling it a day. This better serves diversity and people (myself included) stop QQing. Everyone gets cake.

[Kuja900]

I have yet to find a player who can prove reverse thrusts viability to me, what evidence do you have for its viability in competitive play?

[Kuja900]

Originally Posted by Evan20000

I think a better solution for this would be just buffing Rev/Dumb bombs and calling it a day. This better serves diversity and people (myself included) stop QQing. Everyone gets cake.

Dumb bombs should be scrapped for a new red perk imo, how exactly would you rework either of them? I cant even begin to imagine what a rev thrust buff would be like.

[ufo]

Evidence for previous use of rev in an effective manner competitively and the ability for someone to use the perk effectively in a competitive setting are not mutually exclusive.

To quote The Santa Clause:
"Have you ever seen a million dollars?"
"Uh..no"
"Well, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist."

I've said all I'm gonna say tho. Like class, I don't rly give a ****. I just wish everyone else would relax about such an arbitrary and subjective subject.

[Evan20000]

Originally Posted by Kuja900

Dumb bombs should be scrapped for a new red perk imo, how exactly would you rework either of them? I cant even begin to imagine what a rev thrust buff would be like.

Possible rev buffs were posted in the other thread (I think only 1 or 2 of them actually fix it though), as for dumb bombs.... yeah, I dunno either.

[Kuja900]

Originally Posted by ufo

Evidence for previous use of rev in an effective manner competitively and the ability for someone to use the perk effectively in a competitive setting are not mutually exclusive.

To quote The Santa Clause:
"Have you ever seen a million dollars?"
"Uh..no"
"Well, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist."

I've said all I'm gonna say tho. Like class, I don't rly give a ****. I just wish everyone else would relax about such an arbitrary and subjective subject.

Given that the perk has been around for as long as it has and the community has yet to see any such results I think we can safely assume it is not up to par in its current incarnation.

[Sarah Palin]

Originally Posted by tgleaf

In defense of conservatism, many ladder matches come down to the wire (not all, of course... there are still inexplicable 6-1 games and what not).

There are actually many 6-1 and 6-2 games because of flaws in the ladder model.

The biggest problems are:

1. Plane imbalance. It's possible to pick two "balanced" teams where one will always lose because it has an unbalanced plane composition. In theory you could even have a "balanced" all whale vs all loopy game.

2. Map imbalance. It's possible to pick two "balanced" teams where one team has a far superior record on the map than another. As an example I win 3/4 of my games on Darkwar and lose an equally skewed number of my games on Grotto.

3. Plane mixing. The ladder can't accurately rank players who use 2 or more plane setups unless they are roughly equally good at all of them.


3 is probably not fixable but 1 and 2 definitely are. And since they happen more often than people using silly perks, the focus should be there.

[Sunaku]

Originally Posted by elxir

the best games are those where all players are taking it reasonably seriously, using an effective combination of planes, and all players are competent enough to see the game developing and respond as needed to help their team.

Says the guy who plays random plane setup on ladder.
Oh credibility, I shout your name but I only hear an echo.

[matattack]

i just wanted to say props to fo for sayin what he been sayin cause thats what im sayin.
srsly if ur gonna blame the other guy, then grow up n play better.
i could have every right in that case to say dont play thermo because i think its bad, and because u were playing it and we lost i blame you.
really now..
if the game allows the perk, then shouldnt the ladder?
anything goes imo. if ur stuck with the baddie, play better

[andy]

Originally Posted by matattack

if the game allows the perk, then shouldnt the ladder?
anything goes imo.

The game also allows for full random and perkless setups, would they be useful for the team?
Its about what benefits your team not what is fun/allowed.

[Smushface]

Originally Posted by Sarah Palin

There are actually many 6-1 and 6-2 games because of flaws in the ladder model.

The biggest problems are:

1. Plane imbalance. It's possible to pick two "balanced" teams where one will always lose because it has an unbalanced plane composition. In theory you could even have a "balanced" all whale vs all loopy game.

2. Map imbalance. It's possible to pick two "balanced" teams where one team has a far superior record on the map than another. As an example I win 3/4 of my games on Darkwar and lose an equally skewed number of my games on Grotto.

3. Plane mixing. The ladder can't accurately rank players who use 2 or more plane setups unless they are roughly equally good at all of them.


3 is probably not fixable but 1 and 2 definitely are. And since they happen more often than people using silly perks, the focus should be there.

Honestly, I used to complain about plane imbalance too but after I thought about it, I like the current implementation of no plane balance. If every game I played was "balanced" with the 3 heavy / 2 light plane that has somewhat become standard then games would get incredibly repetitive and boring. Being forced to play with and against a random motley of planes forces you to think on your feet, adjust your playstyle, and gets you out of your comfort zone, making you an all around better player.

[GGQ]

Just read this thread. There should absolutely not be a ban on any perks in ladder. That's silly.

[Evan20000]

Originally Posted by Smushface

Honestly, I used to complain about plane imbalance too but after I thought about it, I like the current implementation of no plane balance. If every game I played was "balanced" with the 3 heavy / 2 light plane that has somewhat become standard then games would get incredibly repetitive and boring. Being forced to play with and against a random motley of planes forces you to think on your feet, adjust your playstyle, and gets you out of your comfort zone, making you an all around better player.

Except for those games when you get 3 biplanes, 1 bomber and a miranda. Then you just autolose.

[Kuja900]

Originally Posted by Smushface

Honestly, I used to complain about plane imbalance too but after I thought about it, I like the current implementation of no plane balance. If every game I played was "balanced" with the 3 heavy / 2 light plane that has somewhat become standard then games would get incredibly repetitive and boring. Being forced to play with and against a random motley of planes forces you to think on your feet, adjust your playstyle, and gets you out of your comfort zone, making you an all around better player.

I must disagree, adjusting your play outside of the metagame does not make you a better player imo. Getting used to less planned out setups just makes you develop habits/play styles that are useless against an organized well composed entity.

[ufo]

Originally Posted by andy

Its about what benefits your team not what is fun

loooooool
like...wut?

[hurripilot]

Originally Posted by ufo

loooooool
like...wut?

fofo, you and I are from a bygone era. A new order has descended upon us, an order of basement-dwellers trying to justify their nerd rage. These are sad times, my friend.

[Kuja900]

You want fun go to off 3, ladder is a place reserved for a strictly competitive environment imo.

[silent skies]

I'm waiting to see Nike sponsorship and a line of Altitude sneakers (with air pumps).

[Evan20000]

Nike would bribe Nobo to put Tiger Woods into the #1 slot on the ladder.

He would also rage so hard when he lost that he would make ACE players look calm and civil.

[ufo]

Originally Posted by Kuja900

You want fun go to off 3, ladder is a place reserved for a strictly competitive environment imo.

if you want fun, go play a videogame online. o wait

qq

[Kuja900]

I will clarify, if you want to mess around go to official 3. Messing around in ladder servers ruins the fun for the rest of us.

[silent skies]

Originally Posted by ufo

if you want fun, go play a videogame offline. o wait

qq

Fixed.

Messing around in ladder servers ruins the fun for the rest of us.

You're not supposed to be having fun in the first place, it's ladder.

[countryninja]

Originally Posted by Herodadotus

Well, I agree that these setups are bad for a team. I hesitate to say people use these intentionally to screw the team, though. I think flexi and rev thrust together is overall a bad combination. One or the other, not both. (And preferably flexi over rev right now.) Maybe we need to just tell these players why the setup is inferior, unless they're just doing it to be obstinant.

I agree Herodadotus, I am just a bit curious as to why these setups are even available ( at all ) If they are so bad. On the other hand, maybe the creators of Altitude left the setup to be chosen by each individual player's liking. I do understand that Ladder is a Private server and their opinions obviously will overrule what anyone thinks, so maybe the Ladder admins could possibly have a patch made where the setups that are not acceptable, could not be used in that server? Not sure if It can be done or not, just an Idea. This sure would stop a lot of fussing and fighting. ( Which really gets old )

[elxir]

Originally Posted by countryninja

I agree Herodadotus, I am just a bit curious as to why these setups are even available ( at all ) If they are so bad. On the other hand, maybe the creators of Altitude left the setup to be chosen by each individual player's liking. I do understand that Ladder is a Private server and their opinions obviously will overrule what anyone thinks, so maybe the Ladder admins could possibly have a patch made where the setups that are not acceptable, could not be used in that server? Not sure if It can be done or not, just an Idea. This sure would stop a lot of fussing and fighting. ( Which really gets old )

The server admin can already define what plane setups are or aren't allowed within the server.

[A Nipple]

can we get some banege on using ace instincts its got no roll in tbd ladder! every time i have seen people use it they dont even get bars!

[Evan20000]

I'm a little disturbed. Yesterday, I played a few games using Trick/HA/Ace and didn't get called out once for it. I only ask that everyone gets the same treatment regarding perk selection if we're going to be elitists.

[Wok3N^]

To be honest, the best way to solve this problem is that if there is someone using perks that aren't favorable by his/her team, that team should ask an admin (assuming there is one in the server) to force a perk change and the admin can grant the change or let play continue.

[hurripilot]

Originally Posted by Wok3N^

To be honest, the best way to solve this problem is that if there is someone using perks that aren't favorable by his/her team, that team should ask an admin (assuming there is one in the server) to force a perk change and the admin can grant the change or let play continue.

What would happen if an admin banned a perk during play? Would the player using the perk get an auto ban, or would they just lose the perk from their setup?

[matattack]

Originally Posted by Evan20000

I'm a little disturbed. Yesterday, I played a few games using Trick/HA/Ace and didn't get called out once for it. I only ask that everyone gets the same treatment regarding perk selection if we're going to be elitists.

exactly. however, there still shouldnt be any "treatement" regarding perk selection.

i mean just because its competitive doesnt mean there isnt any fun involved. nor is there messing around..as i do all the time, most likely causing my team to fail because of my high ranking. however, when people ask me to change i would change for them. as important as it seems to try to reinforce the issue, asking for a change should always be step one..not bans, kicks, or admin-change-whatever-thingys. seriously the admins have enough on their hands dealing with all the complaints.
if that still doesnt work then tough patuties? i mean damn? i lost a ladder game? maybe next game ill be on the opposite team of the guy who "lost the game for me" and win a game?
it shouldnt really be that big of a deal guys. if ur good enough, u will eventually hit the top ranks...with or without bans or lame people.

[Wok3N^]

Originally Posted by hurripilot

What would happen if an admin banned a perk during play? Would the player using the perk get an auto ban, or would they just lose the perk from their setup?

No the admin would enforce that the plane setup isn't allowed and if that player still continued to use it, he/she would be banned.

[Evan20000]

Originally Posted by matattack

if ur good enough, u will eventually hit the top ranks...with or without bans or lame people.

Or you can do what I did. I got lucky a few days ago where only people rank 30 and above were in the server, and we went at it for about 5 hours. I slowly climbed to the top because Ingbo and UFO were on my team for most of it. >.>

[-MH-CaptainVogez]

I must say, I use time anchor + reverse and notice it pisses people off, even in normal servers.

My argument is that if you play with a plane and become familiar with it, then you would be no better of playing with another.

[Beagle]

Originally Posted by andy

Its about what benefits your team not what is fun/allowed.

Oh look, now I remember why I keep leaving this game

[elxir]

Originally Posted by Beagle

Oh look, now I remember why I keep leaving this game

non-ladder servers are that way ---->

[Beagle]

When nobo enforces NO FUN ALLOWED on the ladder servers I'll be happy to leave, until then I enjoy 5v5 with people of reasonable skill

[evilarsenal]

i played maybe 5 games in TBD today, with 3 noobs who used ACE instincs who couldnt even rack up kills

can we ban ACE instincts? or atleast, if i ask someone to change and they don't do it, can we kick them?

I won a game in ball 6-3 or something even with Jedi Mind Sh*t playing with Ace, he changed after 6 goals were scored, but still, the game was 20 minutes long.

I come to play good games, i dont care what my rating is (its horrible) and i get frustrated when someone uses ace and cant even get kills. I ask them, and FU the other day was kicked for asking someone to change it

Can i get some sort of answer for these noobs :[, what should i do? i don't want to sit through it,

[tomato man]

Originally Posted by ufo

i'm not. i don't see any problem with any setup.

its a game.

true, keep in the mind that this is just a game, and if ppl want play for fun they can

[evilarsenal]

its ladder, if u want to play the game go to official tres, ladder was set as a specific clear atmosphere

don't troll 9 people and don't waste 9 people's time in ladder, or 11 whatever

[shrode]

I can't believe we won that game with Jedi Mind SH** on our team evil. he was remote flexi ace if my memory serves me right, and at one point he was like 4-13 and at the bottom of our team. And he would not switch or even reply to our requests to switch even after we explained that ace instincts doesn't help him at all.

Then he broke the player count the next game and quickly got kicked ha. He had to have been griefing intentionally.