European Altitude Ball League

[Dougie]

The European Altitude Ball League

EABL CUP CHAMPIONS

{arr} The Sky Pirates

Final Week Results

[FC] No Result ///tVo.
tVo forfeit, [FC] 9 points

-={8}=- 1 - 2 =AIR=
6-5 darkwar, 2-6 asteroids, 4-6 planepark
10 points to =AIR=, 2 points to -={8}=-

{arr} 3 - 0 ///tVo.
6-0 planepark, 6-3 cave, [6-3] tvo forfeit
12 points to {arr}

Invitational experimental tournament for the European based Altitude ball teams. Please note this tournament has been designed to create a more competitive environment for the altitude ball teams based in the EU and should Skyleague season 3 begin before the tournament end, any SL matches will have priority over any of these matches.

Teams Included: {arr}, =AIR=, -={8}=-, FC, tVo

You can read more about the rules here. They are currently still being amended and any recommendations and "constructive" comments are welcome.[/CENTER]

[Dougie]

[robinb98]

i doest understand

[sunshineduck]

Are US teams specifically excluded from this tournament, or are we allowed to play with the caveat that we conform to your time schedule and agree to play on your servers?

Also, if US teams are excluded, are euro players on US teams allowed to play in this league?

[Tosconi]

+ are non EU europeans also excluded?

ps: nice idea, but the formulation lacks depth.

[mlopes]

I am =GUI.tar= and I approve this message.

[Dougie]

Originally Posted by sunshineduck

Are US teams specifically excluded from this tournament, or are we allowed to play with the caveat that we conform to your time schedule and agree to play on your servers?

Also, if US teams are excluded, are euro players on US teams allowed to play in this league?

I originally designed this league as a euro based clan only league (i.e. teams that have a majority of euro based players). The idea being that it will give me a small selection of teams in which to try out a few ideas for a league setup. My ideal solution would be to have two leagues side by side with playoffs after. One Euro league and one US league. The idea behind it being to make it easier for scheduling matches without having to accommodate to different timezones. Right now I'd be happy to assist in setting up a schedule and table for US teams, but I'm not sure if I'll have the time to be able to administer the games. Plus the ruleset I have worked on is very much trial and error (flexible scheduling, bonus points in games, referees), and I know there are several teams that would disagree with them.

^the above hasn't actually answered any of your questions!

Are US teams specifically excluded from this tournament, or are we allowed to play with the caveat that we conform to your time schedule and agree to play on your servers?

>Not specifically. I'll allow up to 6 teams, using a home and away system. Possibly So US teams can play on a US server for a home game. Any European based teams applying will be preferred over a US team.

Also, if US teams are excluded, are euro players on US teams allowed to play in this league?

If you mean just to play your Euro based players from your clan, I wouldn't have a problem with this. But I'm also fine for non euro players to take part aswell if they're part of the clan, although they will have to put up with the lag!

+ are non EU europeans also excluded?

no, all euro clans are welcome! Just make sure you have 6 or more players and are happy to play with the rules.

[tmic225]

I would like to enter EU ///tVo

Roster:
Boko
NinJU
Tominator
Val
Void
Yking
Yossarian.

[Sunaku]

As I already told you, all of this looks great so far. The bonus points idea would add an interesting incentive and is definitely worth a try.
Each clan providing a referee will ensure much needed shared responsibility. As the schedules are at players' discretion, maybe each clan should appoint two of them ? Not that I think anything would go bloody in a EU tourney, but it would raise the chances of having one referee available.

Also here's a suggestion that arr private server might use too. The tournament servers should all be set with a decent warm-up time, close to the ladder one, so that we avoid messy map starts with teams missing players.

While I'm woody-woodpecking rules, regarding this part :

Originally Posted by Rules

Should two teams be even on points on the table, place difference will be decided by number of matches won, then number of games won, then goal difference, then goals for and finaly aplhabetic order. If at the end of the tournament, two teams can only be decided by aplhabetic order, a playoff match will be called between the two teams to decide the position (if required).

Unless you want to see more games played overall, which I'm not against, you could always just decide the outcome by the winner of these two teams matchup in the regular tourney.

This tournament has solid basis, looking forward to it !

[Wyrd]

Originally Posted by The Euro League

Potential Servers

{arr} private server
=AIR= private server
-={8}=- ball maps
UK based server - (I may bring up my old server for the tourney if required)

The {arr} servers are UK based, Dougie.

[Dougie]

I have accepted tVo's entrance into the tournament. Unless there are any objections, I'm happy for them to take part. They have a lot of quality euro players, and are sure to make the cup much tougher. tVo can play non-eu players if needed! I will still need to appoint a contact and referee from this team.

Originally Posted by Sunaku

As I already told you, all of this looks great so far. The bonus points idea would add an interesting incentive and is definitely worth a try.
Each clan providing a referee will ensure much needed shared responsibility. As the schedules are at players' discretion, maybe each clan should appoint two of them ? Not that I think anything would go bloody in a EU tourney, but it would raise the chances of having one referee available.

Also here's a suggestion that arr private server might use too. The tournament servers should all be set with a decent warm-up time, close to the ladder one, so that we avoid messy map starts with teams missing players.

While I'm woody-woodpecking rules, regarding this part :

Unless you want to see more games played overall, which I'm not against, you could always just decide the outcome by the winner of these two teams matchup in the regular tourney.

This tournament has solid basis, looking forward to it !

Some very good suggestions here.

1. Terrific idea about positions. If teams are even on points, matches won, games won, goals scored, then position will be determined by the winner of the two teams from their previous tournemant game.

2. Warm-up times setting: I presume that was set to 30 seconds? If so it would be great if we can get all the servers being used set to that.

3. Teams appointing multiple refs: That could be a good idea, but for this cup we will stick with one ref from each side to see how it goes. However I'm thinking of allowing ref's to be able to allocate a cover ref from their team to fill in for a match if they can't make a game.

Originally Posted by Wyrd

The {arr} servers are UK based, Dougie.

I didn't realise that! I always thought they were in scandinavia. The server I was reffering to is the old ICE server which I can setup from my work. Generally it has a pretty good ping, although the server itself gets restarted randomly because It's used for other things too.

[[Y]]

Originally Posted by tmic225

I would like to enter EU ///tVo

Roster:
Boko
NinJU
Tominator
Val
Void
Yking
Yossarian.

If not enough EU tVo show up, can the tVo that aren't on this registered roster play?

[cipso]

Originally Posted by [Y]

If not enough EU tVo show up, can the tVo that aren't on this registered roster play?

Originally Posted by Dougie

... tVo can play non-eu players if needed!

I guess answer is yes.

[JWhatever]

If a team drops to 5 players, good sportsmanship is encouraged for the opposition to drop down to 5 players until the dropped player returns or a substitution is made.

Few questions: have you considered any time limit on how quickly the opposing team should sit a player if the enemy team happens to loose one? Also, how is the subbing/replacing player decided/when will he pop in (if a player drops in middle of the game). Should the team wait for its dropped player to reconnect or should the tourneymode be stopped immediately? Should the teams point out their potential sub before the games start to avoid confusion?

Secondly, (since =AIR= has had a tendency of having "quick" brieffings between scrim matches) is there a time limit/suggested time how long the teams can delay the next game by chatting in lobby?

I also <3 how you added the flag of Finland and left Norway out.
\,,/

-J

[Wyrd]

What happens if due to stellar defenses/miserable attacks a single game (or two) lasts for a very long time, say an hour or more, and people who are playing are out of time to play due to prior engagements? Do they lose on account of not having enough players anymore, despite having enough at the start of the match, who all had enough time to play an expectable amount of time? Or forced rescheduling?

[Dougie]

Originally Posted by JWhatever

Few questions: have you considered any time limit on how quickly the opposing team should sit a player if the enemy team happens to loose one?

If a team does drop to 5, as I have said in the rules " good sportsmanship is encouraged for the opposition to drop down to 5 players until the dropped player returns or a substitution is made. ". I'm not going to impose any rules on this, mainly because:

1. I'm not certain whether the ref system will work.

2. the system could be abused by teams deliberately dropping down to 5 players. I would need to think of a counter-argument to stop this.

3. I'm going to trust the clans involved to go by the "good sportsmanship" ethics. I would highly recommend that the refs point out when sides become uneven so that the opposing team can acknowledge it.

Originally Posted by JWhatever

Also, how is the subbing/replacing player decided/when will he pop in (if a player drops in middle of the game). Should the team wait for its dropped player to reconnect or should the tourneymode be stopped immediately?

The team who has had the dropped player has to make the decision as to whether a substitute is required. I would recommend within 60 seconds if they have a replacement. Again I will not be putting any rules against this.

Should the teams point out their potential sub before the games start to avoid confusion?[/QUOTE]

no, they can use any of their available players on the server.

Originally Posted by JWhatever

Secondly, (since =AIR= has had a tendency of having "quick" brieffings between scrim matches) is there a time limit/suggested time how long the teams can delay the next game by chatting in lobby?

Recommended 5 minutes, but mainly as long as both teams are ready.

If there are any complaints regarding a teams actions in and between games, speak to the ref at the game (if available) or email me and I will look at writing into the rules a penalty system (eg. warnings and points deductions). Do not post it on the forums!!! Refs currently will not be able to issue the penalty themselves, but can relay information back to me.

Originally Posted by JWhatever

I also <3 how you added the flag of Finland and left Norway out.
\,,/

-J

You can get the norwegian flag by merging the Finnish and Danish flags together

Originally Posted by Wyrd

What happens if due to stellar defenses/miserable attacks a single game (or two) lasts for a very long time, say an hour or more, and people who are playing are out of time to play due to prior engagements? Do they lose on account of not having enough players anymore, despite having enough at the start of the match, who all had enough time to play an expectable amount of time? Or forced rescheduling?

You can reschedule games as you feel fit. I will add in a spare week just before the end of the competition to help cater for this. If however a game is started and the team who cannot continue cannot arrange a rematch. The remaining games will be counted as 6-3 losses.

I'm going to rework some of the rules by tomorrow to reflect some of these points.

[Dougie]

on another note, a couple of announcements regarding the competition.

1. If we have no more entrants into the competition, I will attempt to release match fixtures on thursday evening, to give teams more times to get scheduling sorted for game week 1 starting on the following wednesday.

2. I have come to the decision of not having a winners playoff at the end of the league table. I have spoken to a lot of people about it, and the overall opinion was split. I believe we shouldn't look to lengthen this competition and a playoff also devalues the league table system.

As mentioned above I will rework the rules a bit over the next couple of days to reflect some of the points that have been raised! The feedback is greatly appreciated so keep it going. I want to have a finalised set of rules by Sunday evening. (basically no more major changes)

[Dougie]

http://altitudegame.com/forums/showp...34&postcount=2

Please update me on times of matches when teams have agreed on it. Best of luck to all!

[lakospeter91]

It might be due to the fact that I'm retarded but the table wasn't obvious for me at first. So is it 8-ball(home) vs. arr(away) and FC(home) vs. tvo(away)? If so, you could change the appearance of it a little.
Thanks, Peter

[Dougie]

Originally Posted by lakospeter91

It might be due to the fact that I'm retarded but the table wasn't obvious for me at first. So is it 8-ball(home) vs. arr(away) and FC(home) vs. tvo(away)? If so, you could change the appearance of it a little.
Thanks, Peter

Yes, game week 1 (starting next wednesday) is:
8-ball (home) v arr;
FC (home) v tvo.

I apologize for the fixture list being a bit confusing! I realized it when i looked at it again this morning, I will edit it this evening to make it look a little more obvious.

[lakospeter91]

I hope you haven't done it yet:
http://fc.lakospeter.hu/images/eulea...turestable.jpg

[Dougie]

Originally Posted by lakospeter91

I hope you haven't done it yet:
http://fc.lakospeter.hu/images/eulea...turestable.jpg

I have now! thanks!

I will probably still re-edit it as the dates are in UK format DD/MM/YY which may cause confusion. (plus I don't like the colours that much!)

[Anghell]

Me, Anghell from Ball, is interested 2... I hope we can still join!

[Goose]

Dougie you are doing a great job of organizing this thing.. I just spent 15 minutes looking over your website and then watching your videos

&Twisted& is hereby rooting for [FC] to have a good showing and hopefully win this tournament.

[bradgillis]

I'm searching a ball clan to join in this tournament, if any clan wants me... let me know xDD please!!

[Dougie]

Just to inform everyone, I have setup my old server renamed EUROCUP - server 1 with password "euro". I'm not certain how stable it is, as it hasn't been tested for a while.

Its a 24 player server with All the official maps. All the appointed referees for the competition have admin access there and i have also allowed vote startTournament. Its looking unlikely that I'll make it to the games tomorrow so I have appointed referees with standbys to help maintain the order of things!

Also, a quick reminder to the teams to start scheduling for next week (if you haven't already done so.) It should be =AIR= v {arr} and [FC] v -={8}=-. Keep me informed when you have agreed on a time. If both teams do not agree on a time by wednesday, the default time of saturday 6pm GMT (or 7pm GMT) will be set.

Good luck to all, and happy pew pewing.

[Wyrd]

FC win by forfeit. A currently unknown amount of points for FC. 0 for Tvo


FC had 5 players some minutes after the match was supposed to start. Tvo failed to assemble 5 players within 15 minutes after that, and FC claimed the forfeit.

Tvo did get 5 members at 6:25 pm gmt, but FC had already claimed their forfeit and kept it. After this there was smacktalking, from both sides and some specs.


Question for Dougie:
Tvo wanted to play 4 v 5 or 6. Is this okay if both teams agree to this?
In this case FC was not okay with it and claimed their rightful forfeit.
(Keep complaints regarding this forfeit claim out of this thread please.)

EDIT: Points for FC.

[Yossarian]

In my opinion FC deserves bonus points for great sportsmanship.

[tgleaf]

I wasn't there, but I've been in similar circumstances (on both sides of the equation). Generally, what works is to take the forfeit and play the match anyway. That way, if you win (5v4 or whatever), you know you deserved it and if you lose, at least the other team can have bragging rights even though you get the W on the league results page.

[unbreak]

Arr got 12 points. 8 Ball got 1 point.

Game 1, Roids, 8 Ball 0-6 Arr
Game 2, Snow, 8 Ball 3-6 Arr
Game 3, DarkWar, 8 Ball 5-6 Arr

There was a question about playing a third game if one team already won the first two. Do the teams play three games no matter what?

[Wyrd]

"Each team to play each other once in 3 game matches." Not best of 3, as I hastily interpreted before leaving. Based on the max and min amount of points you can get per match, you definitely have to play 3 games. Glad you guys went on after I left.

Tgleaf, yeah, that might have been a good amicable solution, and I think FC wanted to play for fun after they claimed their forfeit, not 100% sure. Tvo did not want to play for fun however.

[Dougie]

Many thanks for the refs for their help this weekend (and apologies for my absence!) and congrats to arr for their win against -={8}=- (12 points to 1). The FC v tvo match i will clarify the position once i have spoken to the refs to determine the best course of action. Unfortunately i haven't really clarified the number of points awarded in the case of a forfeit in the rules, so I will be speaking to the refs to decide on the best course of action.

Originally Posted by unbreak

There was a question about playing a third game if one team already won the first two. Do the teams play three games no matter what?

Teams must play three games as their are still points at stake.

[andy]

Nobody called me for tvo games also games were at the same time of apl games, could we shift them a bit earlier since its EU time anyway?

[Wyrd]

Originally Posted by Dougie

The FC v tvo match i will clarify the position once i have spoken to the refs to determine the best course of action. Unfortunately i haven't really clarified the number of points awarded in the case of a forfeit in the rules, so I will be speaking to the refs to decide on the best course of action.

Ah, then my 9 points for FC is maybe incorrect. I just went with the "Minimum number of points a winning team can take: 9 points" from the rules.

[cipso]

Originally Posted by Wyrd

Ah, then my 9 points for FC is maybe incorrect. I just went with the "Minimum number of points a winning team can take: 9 points" from the rules. Maybe 10 instead?

In my opinion, 5 points is maximum they should get ... 5 points for match, 0 points for games, 0 points for bonuses.

[lakospeter91]

Hi everyone,

I'm one of the leaders of FC.

I'd like to thank Wyrd for being a referee on FC's match against ///tV0. As he said, the forfeit claim from FC was legitimate, so a default win would be completely acceptable.

However, as Dougie said, we can choose not to take the points and reschedule the game instead. I unfortunately wasn't able to attend the game, so I need to gather information from both sides and the referee before making a decision.

So please calculate the points that we would get if we took the default win, but don't add it to the table yet.

PS.: sorry, I'm not native at English.

Peter (FC.lakospeter)

[mlopes]

Hey guys, I recorded the 3 8ball vs Arr matches and uploaded them to youtube.

Here they are:

Game 1 - Asteroids

Game 2 - Snow

Game 3 - Darkwar

[Sunaku]

Originally Posted by mlopes

Hey guys, I recorded the 3 8ball vs Arr matches and uploaded them to youtube.

Awesome, thanks a lot GUI.tar ! Even if the comments in there give away some of our strats. *cough*

[mlopes]

Originally Posted by Sunaku

Awesome, thanks a lot GUI.tar ! Even if the comments in there give away some of our strats. *cough*

So are you saying we all should look for specs teamchat for details on arr strats?
Can you be more specific, like with wich video, and time, I don't feel like browsing trough the videos to get the intel...

[Sunaku]

Originally Posted by mlopes

So are you saying we all should look for specs teamchat for details on arr strats?
Can you be more specific, like with wich video, and time, I don't feel like browsing trough the videos to get the intel...

Sure, no problem. The information you're after is in ... oh look behind you! A three-headed monkey in Barbra Streisand's house!