ball_subterranean

[tgleaf]

Version 1.4.6 Download: http://www.qfpost.com/download.do?ge...14786a7ce248f9

Special thanks to: Nikon for his "no longer a noob in one hour" Photoshop tutorial; silent skies for detailed suggestions regarding textures

Hosted at: =AIR= EU Server | {ball} new maps

Design history:
12/20/10: v1.4.6: shortened map slightly, removed some rocks, removed horizontal barrier to open up middle, opened up area near spawns to reduce amount of turning needed to reach center ball spawn.
12/19/10: v1.4.5: created forward spawns and opened top-center route, opened bottom tunnel route to goal per mlopes' suggestion, moved power-ups to top corners, added parallax (moving background), fixed background color for para false and plane name color.
12/17/10: Replaced textures. Removed beveled edges, added stroke.
12/15/10: Added beveled edges.
12/15/10: Removed turrets. (older version with turrets: http://www.qfpost.com/download.do?ge...4569bf4b361b1e)

*Need to remove tiny particle near bottom-left rock

Feedback:
Change plane name color to white [v1.4.3 update]
Shorten "A" obstacle
Make bottom route more accessible (haven't noticed this to be a problem in play yet) [v1.4.5]
Make the map smaller (see post below re: relative size to ball_core)
Add moving background to give the feel of movement
Add goal arrows/indicators to show where the goal is (I think once people get used to the map, this suggestion won't come up)
Remove reverse spawns (I know this is controversial... I may make a forward spawn version in the near future) [v1.4.5]

I welcome constructive feedback.

[Ajuk999]

From what I can see it looks pretty good! I'll post more comments later after I try it.


Scratch that, I'll make them now. Tg I never comment on maps like this but since your my sensei I will critique this map! =)

Before playing the map:
1) I've always wondered why there are not turrets in ball, but I think I know why. TBD is a slow-paced mode that takes a lot of strategy etc and games usually take longer, but in Ball everything's fast-paced - there's no circling around bases or waiting for the bomb, you get the ball and you gotta score or the other team will! That being said, turrets play a big part in TBD, the other team has to destroy the turrets sometimes to get to the base, if turrets are in ball it could shift the balance because people will be trying to score and others will be occupied with the turrets. Just another distraction for noobs and XP miners imo. Those are my thoughts on having turrets in ball.

2)The Space looks fine...but then again I haven't played the map! As a whale I found the space to be perfect for me.

3)The graphics and coloring look okay they just need edges instead of looking like they just end, there needs to be a gradual end. A bevel or extrude effect can usually work.

EDIT: Just played the map!

@SSD, the turrets do not respawn.

[sunshineduck]

do the turrets respawn after every goal? if not, there's really not point to them.

also, if they do respawn the turrets make the bottom route literally unusable. i'm not sure what the range on them is, but if they're the default range then it means that until they're destroyed there's really no reason to go down there and get instakilled, losing the ball

[tgleaf]

I'll remove the turrets. You don't have to tell me twice. Well, actually you do.

[Goose]

looks good, i'll test it when i can.

This is definitely an improvement over that first monstrosity you have created. I didn't wanna say anything at the time, but that first version of this map you made looked absolutely horrific.

[tgleaf]

Originally Posted by Ajuk999

3)The graphics and coloring look okay they just need edges instead of looking like they just end, there needs to be a gradual end. A bevel or extrude effect can usually work.

And how would you do that?

Edit: nvm: Google ftw

[tgleaf]

Originally Posted by Goose

looks good, i'll test it when i can.

This is definitely an improvement over that first monstrosity you have created. I didn't wanna say anything at the time, but that first version of this map you made looked absolutely horrific.

IT WAS. Holy **** I don't know what I was thinking.

I've been drawing the maps by hand (this one and ball_grid) and then scanning them and converting them to Photoshop. On paper, it looked fine but the scale was way off, way cluttered, way wrong. lol

[Ajuk999]

Originally Posted by tgleaf

And how would you do that?

Go to Photoshop, CLick Add Layer Style, CLick Add Bevel and Emboss, adjust to your liking. Click okay and enjoy. lol, if you need help tg I can assist!

[nobodyhome]

Have two versions, one with turrets and without. Then we can try both.

I suggest if there are turrets, make them invincible but do less damage than the usual tbd turrets (if you haven't done this already). That way people won't be distracted killing the turrets, and the area won't be a complete death zone.

[tgleaf]

Originally Posted by nobodyhome

Have two versions, one with turrets and without. Then we can try both.

I suggest if there are turrets, make them invincible but do less damage than the usual tbd turrets (if you haven't done this already). That way people won't be distracted killing the turrets, and the area won't be a complete death zone.

v1.4 with turrets (default settings for now): http://www.qfpost.com/download.do?ge...4569bf4b361b1e

[silent skies]

There isn't necessarily anything wrong with using textures, especially if it's for the background.
-
That said, the texture you used for the background is terribad and you should look for a different one D: Hunt around on deviantart.com instead of Google. This one for example might work:

http://browse.deviantart.com/?qh=&se...xture#/d1bahvo

I don't know what your original texture looked like or what you did to make it spread across the entire map, but I can tell you this: don't enlarge anything. Enlarging a texture makes it look blurry, grainy and bad.

Simply tiling it, of course, makes it looks like it's been, uh, tiled, and most people will pick up on that right away. If you texture doesn't tile seamlessly (some do, but they're harder to find imo), you can get by by simple inverting the original tile and placing it next to the other one:

1) Place your texture tile
2) New layer
3) In new layer, place texture tile, invert this layer horizontally, and then position the inverted texture so it aligns with the texture in the layer behind it.
4) Merge layers. et voila, you have a texture suitable for tiling. You may need to repeat the process along the vertical axis as well to give you square-segments for tiling.

Afterwards, you might be able to make said background look less flat by overlaying a layer that has some soft clouds rendered into it ('Render Clouds' being a function of most image editors, try playing around with it) ... doing so would make the above DeviantArt texture look like this:



A second and more work-intensive method is to use a very transparent black brush (set transparency to something like 8, and then set the paint brush on a very large width. Using circular motions, you can try to gouge out large holes that look like tunnels extending off into the z-axis, like so:



(still looks a bit grainy where the dark black is, I should've probably taken an even darker black brush to go over this area more *shrug*)

- Those are just some ideas, maybe other ppl have better suggestions.

[tgleaf]

If anyone is willing to host this for further testing, please post here. Thanks!

[silent skies]

pm krawz and mlopes, they can host them.

[tgleaf]

Originally Posted by silent skies

pm krawz and mlopes, they can host them.

Yeah, I figured mlopes would probably see this and help out. Krawz usually prefers to host proven maps, so when this one gets a good following, I'll ask him.

Thanks for the textures tutorial!

[tgleaf]

Thanks to silent skies' suggestions and Nikon's thorough Photoshop tutorial, I've been working on updated graphics (new download to follow soon):

[mlopes]

Hi, in fact I'm planing on adding this map and remove others (like pacman) from =AIR= EU Server, but I haven't had the opportunity yet.

[tgleaf]

Originally Posted by mlopes

Hi, in fact I'm planing on adding this map and remove others (like pacman) from =AIR= EU Server, but I haven't had the opportunity yet.

Thanks, mlopes. I'll post here or PM you when I've uploaded the revised graphics version.

[Mandrad]

Map looks gooood!

Nice 1

[tgleaf]

Originally Posted by Mandrad

Map looks gooood!

Nice 1

Thank you. New graphics have been replaced and map is available for download (top post).

@Ajuk: thanks!

[Ajuk999]

It looks a lot better tgleaf!

[Nikon]

Now it looks like a legit map (I suggested the stroke)

[tgleaf]

Gratitudes added to top post.

[elxir]

A) I hate maps that rev spawn you. They are silly.

B) The lower lip below each goal seems like it destroys low routes completely.

Turning backwards is counterproductive.

[tgleaf]

Originally Posted by elxir

A) I hate maps that rev spawn you. They are silly.

Generally agree.

Originally Posted by elxir

B) The lower lip below each goal seems like it destroys low routes completely.

That's the point. Are you referring to A, B, or C?

[Spartan]

Originally Posted by tgleaf

Generally agree.



That's the point. Are you referring to A, B, or C?

The A lip is a bit too long. It would take too long to get around that lip and just create a spamfest in that area, so no one would likely take that route. Plus, if you were to try to shoot once you rounded the lip, that rock right above the A would get in the way of any possible shots from that angle.

Since I can't think of a better way to term it, the "C" region would become a useless route, and if it is used, it seems like it would just turn into a clusterf*ck

[mlopes]

I tested it yesterday. I liked the graphics, and it seems that a lot of people on the server also did.

I have two things to point out. That C spot you marked on your image, it leads people into a dead end, and if the map doesn't have good top and middle routes, it wouldn't avoid the bottom becoming a clusterf*ck. But I don't think you'll need to worry about avoiding clusterf*cks because I haven't seen none when I played and the game was kinda long.

The second thing is the ground, it seems a little irregular, it may be hard to predict what the ball will do when thrown against it.

Some people also complained about the map being huge, I didn't get that impression, but they may be right because the game took a very long time, it may also be because everyone was playing the map for the 1st time and didn't knew the routes.

[tgleaf]

@spartan & mlopes: thank you for the feedback! I'll think about changing the bottom area, but I don't want to make it too desirable as my intention in making this map was to make a map where the bottom route wasn't always (or at least rarely) used.

As far as size goes, I started with the size of ball_core and then altered it a slight bit, so I can't imagine it being too big.

For reference, ball_core is 3816 x 1656 and ball_subterranean is 3910 x 1491. Area-wise, my map is 8% smaller, but as you can see, it's slightly wider (3%).

[trendy11one]

First impression. Map looks "same". Maybe this is effect of first play, but really i dont know how close goal, and where is goal, coz almost same round rocks everywhere. Add some graphics(maybe some bugs or ants with different color parts), which can help to remember main parts of map like "left side, middle, right side" would be helpful.
Name of plane is black. Need more white i guess.
Also its really looks long, maybe because of graphic issues. In core u have 3 huge areas, which plane can cross fast, here alot of obstacles, every randa try to anchor like 9000 times before pass ball

[tgleaf]

This is a really rough edit (the textures aren't accurate, the floor isn't smoothed enough, etc.), but would this be an improvement to the map layout?

I made forward spawns, opened up the top-middle/spawn area, and took out the bottom corner paths.

[mlopes]

Originally Posted by tgleaf

This is a really rough edit (the textures aren't accurate, the floor isn't smoothed enough, etc.), but would this be an improvement to the map layout?

I made forward spawns, opened up the top-middle/spawn area, and took out the bottom corner paths.

I wouldn't go that far, it's creating completely straight paths to the goals and making the bottom path very attractive.

My suggestion would go more along the lines of the drawing in attachment. It wouldn't kill the bottom of the map but wouldn't be very attractive as it ends up behind the goal.

[tgleaf]

Newest update: v1.4.6 added to top post. See Design History for details.

[mlopes]

Originally Posted by tgleaf

Newest update: v1.4.6 added to top post. See Design History for details.

Uploaded this version to the =AIR= EU Server.