Sky League Round 3 Pick Your Own Format!

[Wok3N^]

Here are some truly unique ideas for next week’s tournament! Better yet, you get to pick the format!

Here are your options:

1. 15 minute match - score as much as you can

The servers will be adjusted so that instead of scoring 6 to win, you have to score more than your opponent by the end of 15 minutes of time. If there by any chance there is a tie, the game will go to sudden death and the first team to score wins.

2. Fast-paced round robin style

There will be two groups of randomly selected teams. All of the teams in each group play each other once and if there are any ties there will be a tiebreaker. After the round robin is over, the 1st place team from each group plays against each other for the victor of the tournament. The 2nd place teams will play each other to determine 3rd. The round robin games will be BO1 to make it quick as there will be many games and the finals will be BO3.

[Wok3N^]

If the concepts are too vague, please feel free to ask any questions on this thread.

[Ajuk999]

I like the second format, I'm definitely not crazy about b01's though.

[Dougie]

Originally Posted by Ajuk999

I like the second format, I'm definitely not crazy about b01's though.

I wonder why?

[Ajuk999]

Originally Posted by Dougie

I wonder why?

lol. It's not necessarily just that alone, it's more because we could end up playing on our worst map, etc.

[Dougie]

Originally Posted by Ajuk999

lol. It's not necessarily just that alone, it's more because we could end up playing on our worst map, etc.

I see your point there, but nevertheless I have voted for option 2, cause it sounds like fun getting to play more teams.

[trendy11one]

Maybe not bo1. Play 2 maps, then sum all goals. Winner get 2 points, if tie - both 1 point. So if u win first 6-5, but then lose 1-6, summ will be 7-11 => loss.
Also - 2nd game can be stopped.
E.g. - 1 map result 6-0. So if left team score one goal, they auto win, even if they lose 1-6, so game can be stopped.

[Ajuk999]

I do like the idea of counting up the goals, maybe a point or two for the teams that scored the most goals that day?

[rojo]

Originally Posted by Wok3N^

Here are some truly unique ideas for next week’s tournament! Better yet, you get to pick the format!

Here are your options:

1. 15 minute match - score as much as you can

The servers will be adjusted so that instead of scoring 6 to win, you have to score more than your opponent by the end of 15 minutes of time. If there by any chance there is a tie, the game will go to sudden death and the first team to score wins.

2. Fast-paced round robin style

There will be two groups of randomly selected teams. All of the teams in each group play each other once and if there are any ties there will be a tiebreaker. After the round robin is over, the 1st place team from each group plays against each other for the victor of the tournament. The 2nd place teams will play each other to determine 3rd. The round robin games will be BO1 to make it quick as there will be many games and the finals will be BO3.

Why not combine the 2?

15 minute round robin: wins and goals scored/goals against each have a set amount of points. Winner of each "division" (most points), plays in tournament. A good Bo1 game would be about 15 minutes.. give 5 minutes between sets... that would be a little over an hour of playtime with the Bo3 to decide winner of the day...

editting:
I miscalculated:
If 10 teams show up, 20 minutes per/match..80 minutes. More than a 'little'.
Even if 12 teams show up, its still under 2 hours before tournament finals time, which is about equal to the amount of time we need to partition to these tournaments anyway.

2nd edit:
Regarding randomly selected teams:
We're currently 2 tournaments in and have a reasonable distribution of points. Why not use the current point system as a way of 'seeding' these divisions? I'm all for random seeds for tournament drawing, but if you're going to do divisions then they should be as "even" as possible.

What are other's thoughts on this?

[tgleaf]

I appreciate the new ideas, but I'm not excited by either of them. I'll try to come up with something different/better if I can.

Originally Posted by rojo

Regarding randomly selected teams:
We're currently 2 tournaments in and have a reasonable distribution of points. Why not use the current point system as a way of 'seeding' these divisions? I'm all for random seeds for tournament drawing, but if you're going to do divisions then they should be as "even" as possible.

What are other's thoughts on this?

Yes, I'd like to see seedings based on past performance whenever possible. It doesn't make sense -- or make for exciting tournaments -- when powerhouses are seeded to play new teams without as much experience late in the bracket and powerhouses eliminate each other in the first matchup.

[Goose]

i support the first option of 15 minute rounds, unlimited scoring

[Sunaku]

Originally Posted by tgleaf

I appreciate the new ideas, but I'm not excited by either of them.

Same, so didn't vote. The intent to diversify the tournaments is commendable and the bo1s were a fun novelty, but I wish we could go back to something more interesting like good old bo3s.
If you really want to use a new format, then how about having the round robin with bo3s over the course of two weeks. Assuming 10 teams will sign up, it would require 4 matches per group, so 2 matches this week and 2 matches + finals next week.

[Goose]

I do enjoy Bo3 matches more than Bo1, so i propose this idea:

10 minute rounds, unlimited scoring, Bo3 matches in a round robin tournament that lasts for 2 weeks

[elxir]

Originally Posted by Goose

i support the first option of 15 minute rounds, unlimited scoring

if these are bo3 i will kill myself

[sunshineduck]

Originally Posted by Goose

i support the first option of 15 minute rounds, unlimited scoring

i agree with this, but can there be a mercy rule of like 10 goals or something?

[beefheart]

What would be another but completely awesome idea imo, is to play a tourney on new maps only.

Teams need to show if they can adapt to their new environments and at the same time new maps get tested like never before.

[tgleaf]

Originally Posted by beefheart

What would be another but completely awesome idea imo, is to play a tourney on new maps only.

Teams need to show if they can adapt to their new environments and at the same time new maps get tested like never before.

YES. We have a bunch of new/newer maps we could use.

[Goose]

Originally Posted by beefheart

What would be another but completely awesome idea imo, is to play a tourney on new maps only.

Teams need to show if they can adapt to their new environments and at the same time new maps get tested like never before.

that is a pretty cool idea, i would support this!

however, we shouldn't play ball_pulse or ball_subterranean since those are without a doubt the worst maps ever created in the history of Altitude, and the person who is responsible for making them should uninstall the game immediately.

[rojo]

Originally Posted by Goose

that is a pretty cool idea, i would support this!

however, we shouldn't play ball_pulse or ball_subterranean since those are without a doubt the worst maps ever created in the history of Altitude, and the person who is responsible for making them should uninstall the game immediately.

superlazer IMO

[tgleaf]

Originally Posted by Goose

that is a pretty cool idea, i would support this!

however, we shouldn't play ball_pulse or ball_subterranean since those are without a doubt the worst maps ever created in the history of Altitude, and the person who is responsible for making them should uninstall the game immediately.

You forgot ball_grid.

[Wok3N^]

The poll technically closes in two days but I am going to reduce it to one more day so I can organize the tourney tomorrow as I will be busy Saturday.

[nobodyhome]

Just gonna pop in here to say that timed matches is a horrible idea.

What is gonna happen is that one team will get some sort of lead (2-3 points, or maybe even just 1 point), and then they will realize that all they have to do to win is to keep the ball away from the other team.

Then they will bring the ball to their own spawn and proceed to use 6 explodets and camp the hell out of it.

[Wok3N^]

I have thought about that nobo and others have brought up that point as well. I personally think people assume too much that solely playing defense will in fact work to prevent goals. In any fast paced ball game, often your best defense is pushing the ball forward. 6 Explos could easily be killed honestly with enough pressure from a team push. I think that tactically, it would be interesting to see what teams try when they have a lead.

[Goose]

Originally Posted by nobodyhome

Just gonna pop in here to say that timed matches is a horrible idea.

What is gonna happen is that one team will get some sort of lead (2-3 points, or maybe even just 1 point), and then they will realize that all they have to do to win is to keep the ball away from the other team.

Then they will bring the ball to their own spawn and proceed to use 6 explodets and camp the hell out of it.

yeah, but this adds a new unique element to the game...teams would have to really use strategy to find a way to best penetrate a 6 heavy armor whale defense. Do you go with an all in rush with loopy fire and EMP? or try for a quick swoop n pickup with a randa? Not to mention not all teams would do what you are proposing.. If you have faith in your offense, there is no reason to hole up in your spawn area and defend..Just run up the score to such a degree that the other team has no chance of making a comeback.

[rojo]

Originally Posted by Goose

yeah, but this adds a new unique element to the game...teams would have to really use strategy to find a way to best penetrate a 6 heavy armor whale defense. Do you go with an all in rush with loopy fire and EMP? or try for a quick swoop n pickup with a randa? Not to mention not all teams would do what you are proposing.. If you have faith in your offense, there is no reason to hole up in your spawn area and defend..Just run up the score to such a degree that the other team has no chance of making a comeback.

All due respect, the more I think of it- the more I don't like this idea.

I don't know how much running up the score is going to really occur. Strong teams against weak teams this will likely happen, but to what avail? Embarrassing a team? I don't know the total average time in ball ladder matches, but the few I looked at in the top 50 all average around 9-10 minutes so we can probably assume that this won't happen against two teams of equal stature.

Yea, I can imagine that after a few quick goals teams will try to play heavy defense... but how does this lend itself to 'better play.' I understand that you're (Wok, CCN) are trying to keep this fresh and exciting with new game-play twists on weekly tournaments, but if its not broken why fix it? Or are Bo3, 6 goal games getting old?

[Goose]

i think the premise of this Skyleague was that each tournament was going to offer a unique format to keep things fresh and interesting. I'm in favor of trying out new stuff, but the standard Bo3 6 goals is fine as well if that's what everyone prefers.. However i do like the concept brought up earlier of doing a standard Bo3 on completely new maps, if the current options (unlimited scoring/10 minute rounds/etc..) aren't implemented. I think that's a fair compromise.

[CCN]

if a team can't get the ball from another team playing keepaway, then their setup needs adjustment.

Getting the ball froma heavy whale team is definitly possible.

[nobodyhome]

Originally Posted by CCN

if a team can't get the ball from another team playing keepaway, then their setup needs adjustment.

Getting the ball froma heavy whale team is definitly possible.

You guys are forgetting that playing keepaway is very very easy maps with deep deep spawns locations. Sure, playing keepaway on a map like grotto or lostcity isn't that easy. But what about darkwar? or maze? Just bring the ball to your spawn and fill it up with mines galore. The only way to push that in is with some shields, but then you'd still have to deal with the rockets in your face. Then you'd have to contend with the fact that if you kill one, he just respawns three seconds later.

[CCN]

Originally Posted by nobodyhome

You guys are forgetting that playing keepaway is very very easy maps with deep deep spawns locations. Sure, playing keepaway on a map like grotto or lostcity isn't that easy. But what about darkwar? or maze? Just bring the ball to your spawn and fill it up with mines galore. The only way to push that in is with some shields, but then you'd still have to deal with the rockets in your face. Then you'd have to contend with the fact that if you kill one, he just respawns three seconds later.

So if you gathered 6 people, got the power ups and organized an attack on a bunch of trapped enemies you would lose a high percentage of the time?

I doubt it.


But regardless it's easy to test.

[mikesol]

I remember doing this exact thing in ball_football where it was like 5-4 with like 2 minutes left and we just sat in our spawn with people both in and out of it protecting the ball lol. It wasn't a super competitive match but it did happen.

[CCN]

Originally Posted by mikesol

I remember doing this exact thing in ball_football where it was like 5-4 with like 2 minutes left and we just sat in our spawn with people both in and out of it protecting the ball lol. It wasn't a super competitive match but it did happen.

I do this in ball_football server solo,

I also go 72-0 in same said servers.

Edit: Im not trying to shovel through this idea, but we all know that super competitive matches play a lot different then pubbies. The only way we're gonna know is to try it out. APL 4 has a 10 min timer, two teams could try and scrimt here with the keep away tactic to see how it goes.

[Sunaku]

What Nobo and Rojo said on the time limit.

Originally Posted by CCN

The only way we're gonna know is to try it out. APL 4 has a 10 min timer, two teams could try and scrimt here with the keep away tactic to see how it goes.

One of the reasons why this idea is frowned upon is because it has actually already been tried. I believe it was when the patch implemented this option and it only took a few matches to realize it was incredibly lame. All this format promotes is camping and obnoxious ball handling. Not to mention ties, I'm not sure there is anything less interesting in the universe than seeing a great encounter end up as a tie. Technically speaking, as I don't think there is a "Sudden death mode if tie happens" option, that also means you would have to start another game for that, which sounds a little bit absurd.
Again, there is nothing wrong with searching new ideas, but that doesn't mean each and every idea out there improves the gameplay and deserves its tournament. Or else, spoilers : next week's flavor will be perkless.

By the way, I'm surprised to see bo3 finals in bo1 tournaments. I thought you agreed it didn't really have its place there. The whole point of bo1 is that there is no room for mistakes, and bo3 finals defeats that purpose entirely. If anything, bo3 make the finals anticlimactic compared to the rest of the tournament, not more exciting.

[CCN]

Back when the patch implemented this option? What does this mean? When ball was invented?

Was there some separate patch i'm forgetting that put a timer on ball matches?

were these matches recent? Or so far away as to be irrelevant to the metagame, like last years Christmas ball tourney with 10 minute timers and a max of 6 goals.
When ball ladder starts today (or just before/after), just go organize a friendly pickup game on APL 4 and try it out, put the debate to rest with some actual testing, and please try it out from a neutral viewpoint. I'll try during the times i'm on.


edit: when you say frowned upon, you mean the one with the most vocal people? It seems to me people are split 22/22 on the idea.

[sunshineduck]

keepaway on 10-minute timers imo, team with largest possession time at end of game wins

[MajorPayne257]

Originally Posted by sunshineduck

keepaway on 10-minute timers imo, team with largest possession time at end of game wins

Hah this would be so fun.

[MintzMachete]

honestly, that's more like tdm.

[MajorPayne257]

But with more whales and mines and cluster****s and EXPLOSIONS

[MintzMachete]

MEH. so then Ah can't lose any 6-5 games? :P

[Wok3N^]

Just got home and saw that the 15 minute one was ahead by 1. Looks like it wins! I will have mike change the servers and we will play a tournament that style.

Votes are closed at 24-23

[[Y]]

I don't know what you're talking about poll says 24-24.