tbd_sanctum

[silent skies]

(Download v1.5 ~ 4/2/11) (It is also on the official map testing server)

So, I was (pleasantly) surprised that stuff actually happened with maps. Go figure.

Here is a playable map that I've been working on over the past few days (Edit:... and then improving over a couple of weeks). It is neither hills nor asteroids. Sorry.

XX2 helped me work out with (Edit: lots and lots of) flaws.

Inspired by this.

Visual overview + layout (Current version v1.5 4/2/2011):





- 4000x1700
- para_false BG = mid gray (RGB 128/128/128)
- the trees and rock formations are collidable. Foreground grass and the dangling roots are not collidable.
- 3x powerups, all Missile/Shield/Wall/Health on 15 secs
- Team bombs
- Some foreground fog effects spread around the map.
- Most recent edit: All background images compressed into one image on one parralax. This significantly reduced the filesize of the map and seems to have resolved performance issues.


-------

This map is available by voting for it on the "official map test server."

...

That is all.

[tomato man]

This map looks awesome, gnna test it right now! Well done silent,imao you became 1 of the best mapmaker in all alti)

[Tekn0]

Ohhh Silent Skies is back!!!

[Mandrad]

After bowsercastle copyrights discussion, i smell problems. Hope im wrong!

[silent skies]

Originally Posted by Mandrad

After bowsercastle copyrights discussion, i smell problems. Hope im wrong!

I do not think any copyrights exist for silhouette-style drawings, the word 'sanctum', or trees -- so I hope not.

afaik, the only copyright Meridian4 has is to the name 'Obulis', and I don't see this map as infringing upon that in some way.

I did not directly copy-paste artwork from their game, but took it as a visual cue, though tbh similar kinds of artwork can be seen in many games (like here)

All the images I made myself.

[Mt.Vesuvius]

haha looks like a great map

[sunshineduck]

those front turrets right in front of the base seem rather silly

the map looks great and the layout otherwise fine though, glad to see you're getting back into making maps.

[XX1]

Hmmm, the little problems were fixed, very nice! The rock in the base is also nice, to keep planes from lobbing at very far distances. I am still unsure about the "top" of the map and how much it will be used.

[silent skies]

Originally Posted by XX1

Hmmm, the little problems were fixed, very nice! The rock in the base is also nice, to keep planes from lobbing at very far distances. I am still unsure about the "top" of the map and how much it will be used.

I've been told the same thing about the bottom.

...

I guess this is the part where I wait 8 months for it to be game-tested now.

*marks his calendar*

[elxir]

the base seems very very well protected, just from looking

[XX1]

Originally Posted by elxir

the base seems very very well protected, just from looking

There are plenty of routes to the base, and that little island that is in the base, now acts as somewhat of a protection for the carrier. It Will be angled vertically in Silent's next update.

[silent skies]

XX2 helped me work out some more problems, resulting in...:



Previous version (for comparison):



Rocks in the base area have been redone. Big chunk split up into cave/grotto-like triple-rock formation; oblong platform cut in half and placed at diff. heights; island near base aligned to be vertical.

Some of the turrets were moved about to compensate... bit lazy to update the editor screenshot though, because it's frieeeday frieeeday

(it is on the server)

[ufo]

another gem zwan, very impressive

[silent skies]

Okay, changes underway, though classes are starting up again so prob. not done until next weekend at the earliest.

To-do list:

1) Roots/vines will be made non-collidable. Might throw a few more in here and there to improve visuals, since they won't affect balance anymore.
2) Add some more detail to background objects (the stuff behind the fog, esp. trees)
3) Add some parallax-y action to the background.
4) Fill-in or otherwise rework those corners in the top left and top right, since they might mislead ppl into thinking it's a path of some sort (thanks Mandrad)
5) Remove the bottom route. I am considering just filling in the wrap-around area, or maybe just truncating that entire section of the map (thoughts?)

-- I am still not sure about the top route. There were complaints saying it was useless, though there was gameplay that would contradict that. Needs more testing later on.

-- I am leaving the trees as collidable objects. I love those goddamn trees. They bring a bit of green to my bleak little map.

[XX1]

Originally Posted by silent skies

Okay, changes underway, though classes are starting up again so prob. not done until next weekend at the earliest.

To-do list:

1) Roots/vines will be made non-collidable. Might throw a few more in here and there to improve visuals, since they won't affect balance anymore.
2) Add some more detail to background objects (the stuff behind the fog, esp. trees)
3) Add some parallax-y action to the background.
4) Fill-in or otherwise rework those corners in the top left and top right, since they might mislead ppl into thinking it's a path of some sort (thanks Mandrad)
5) Remove the bottom route. I am considering just filling in the wrap-around area, or maybe just truncating that entire section of the map (thoughts?)

-- I am still not sure about the top route. There were complaints saying it was useless, though there was gameplay that would contradict that. Needs more testing later on.

-- I am leaving the trees as collidable objects. I love those goddamn trees. They bring a bit of green to my bleak little map.

For the Parallax Nobo was suggesting, could you add like a Dinosaur (ilke in cave) :3 or a Terradactyl I dunno just some eye candy and stuff to lol at....

The top was used quite a lot, don't know specifically what was it, but the bomb carrier used it quiet a lot maybe because an explodet running or it was difficult for the Defending team to Attack us when we had such a height advantage ( and an explodet )

I would be fine for filling/removing the bottom, BUT leaving the power up in the bottom center

Yes leave the trees, the Official players just can't fly their planes.

EDIT:

After playing a bit more 7v7 in the test server.. People seem to like to run the bomb from The very top routes and the very bottom wrap around route. Hmm interesting ways, since there so many! Most of the attempts i believe were from the very top, which is proving to be a wonderful place for bombers/bombs
It was voted again by someone and passed...My guess, they like it. People did use the bottom route a bit during more games, mostly for harassment/ turret work. The top is turning out to be very dangerous. It is almost a guaranteed hit without some explodet spamming on defense.

[silent skies]

For the Parallax Nobo was suggesting, could you add like a Dinosaur (ilke in cave) :3 or a Terradactyl I dunno just some eye candy and stuff to lol at....

I think that would kinda ruin the general feel of the map, so no :P I'm just gonna revamp it a bit so it has the same level of detail as the foreground (like with the trees, grasses and roots) but still have it behind the heavy fog.

Might add a third layer behind even denser fog, not sure.


I've already ripped out the bottom route in the editor, though I'll keep a savefile of the previous version in case people want it back, though I find that to be unlikely.

[silent skies]

Okay, changes came about a lot faster than I thought they would.





v1.4
~ bottom route ripped out. The turrets watching said bottom route also taken out, making each team have 5 total.
~ 3 PUs, 1 bottom mid, 2 over team bases in top route
~ the dangling roots/vines are no longer collidable (render behind the player)
~ Two separate backgrounds w/ 2 diff. parralax values, for the illusion of depth. Nearest background has a lot more detail now (similar to level of detail on game layer).

(It's up on the server)

[Zombi]

Just 2 tiny suggestions:

IMO too much grass and crosses, this map needs some cemetery crosses

Another awesome work fo Mr. Skies

[silent skies]

[Disclaimer: This post is not an April Fools joke]

Version 1-point .... 5?





-- The giant rock right below the top path split in two
-- The grasses shortened significantly.
-- Fixed some turret angles.
-- Reduced number of spawns to 6 for some reason.


It's up in the server.

[Mt.Vesuvius]

Im glad u made the roots uncollidable. those things were so annoying

[XX1]

Originally Posted by Mt.Vesuvius

Im glad u made the roots uncollidable. those things were so annoying

Could SSD put this map in the tbd ladder for testing? (Not ready ?)

Any other thoughts on the map/suggestions?

[Karl]

I love the graphics and style of this map. It reminds of some indie game I saw that I can't remember the name of. Anyways here are my thoughts on becoming official for this map:

My general guidelines for TBD maps:
Successful tbd maps have bases less than 2500 pixels apart. Successful is defined as being routinely played on Altitude Ladder TBD server and nooby games won't lead to stale mates.

For example tbd_justice has the bases 2340 pixels apart and is routinely played on Altitude Ladder where tbd_assembly is 2860 pixels and rarely played. Far away bases lead to impossible to finish games.

The few successful large maps such as asteroids (2600 pixels apart) solve their large size by having a pacman/wrap around tunnel.

Other exceptions to my size guideline are tbd_focus (3000) and tbd_core (3200) which use a neutral bomb.

tbd_sanctum has bases 3333 pixels apart and neither a neutral bomb or pacman tunnel. This makes me think games will never end especially given the sheltered nature of the base. But I must admit I have never played this map in a real game.

Also everyone is doing their parallax layers wrong and they're all wrong in the same way... parallax is really weird but where is this miss information coming from? My poorly written wiki article? Unless you're going for a weird effect here's what parallax should be for background layers:

Width: always LESS than game layer width
Height: always SAME as game layer height
X min : always 0
X max: always game layer width
Y min : always 0
Y max: always game layer height

TBD maps have a way harder time becoming official than BALL maps because of their ability to lead to stale mates. The best way to convince us you're map should be made official is to get it played on AltitudeLadder.com

Anyways those are my thoughts without actually having played the map with real people.

[silent skies]

Thanks for the feedback.

Also everyone is doing their parallax layers wrong and they're all wrong in the same way... parallax is really weird but where is this miss information coming from? My poorly written wiki article? Unless you're going for a weird effect here's what parallax should be for background layers:

Width: always LESS than game layer width
Height: always SAME as game layer height
X min : always 0
X max: always game layer width
Y min : always 0
Y max: always game layer height

I think it might actually be the wiki article... it's what I was referring to when I made the background.

To make a background scroll by slower giving the illusion that it's further away you stretch the background image to be as wide as the "game" layer.

I mentally processed this as "background image" + "wide as game layer"

So lets make some background mountains that scroll by 25% slower than the "game" layer scrolls by.
This means we make a background image (in our favorite image editor) that is 1536 x 768 pixels (you should explicitly restate here that this is smaller than the game layer's width 2,048)
Now that you have your background mountains create a new layer in the "View Editor" window. Window->Show View Editor View Editor->Right click->New View->

Width : 1,536
Height: 768
X max : 2,048
Y max : 768

(Since it's not stated on this particular page [read: the game layer size is mentioned only in a previous page], I looked at the width here and assumed that it was the same as the game layer size, with the X max being set as wider than the game layer. This is how I made my parralax.)


Move mid_hills view "Up" so that it is behind the game layer

With the mid_hills view selected in the view editor click Map->Import Large PNG and select mid_hills.png

You now have parallax hills in the background! Check it out using Test->Run

I think the problem is that nowhere on the page does it mention the original game layer size and it being 2,048. I was specifically referring to this page only when making parallax and skipped the first page, where it's stated that our example map's game layer is 2,048.

I think this page of the wiki should be re-written as an individual chunk that can be taken in as such. Parralax tends to be the only thing I keep 'reviewing' in the editor wiki, but I'm naturally not going to reread the entire wiki every time I want to review just a specific portion of it. I think this is probably leading to the trend to make this mistake that you've been seeing.

Interestingly enough, having it set as such makes the background move slower than the game layer, which is the effect wanted to begin with. However, I was just testing with nobodyhome and he told me there were performance issues similar to what tbd_underpark had -- is this parralax issue a probable cause?


Also, that pixel-distance between bases is very valuable info, thanks --- should be on the wiki if it isn't already.

[silent skies]

TBD maps have a way harder time becoming official than BALL maps because of their ability to lead to stale mates. The best way to convince us you're map should be made official is to get it played on AltitudeLadder.com

Erm, I was under the impression that a map wouldn't be put into ladder unless it was worthy of official first :x

[sunshineduck]

other way around, actually

/agree about base to base distance (see my post in the ladder map project thread if you haven't already)

sanctum is available on ladder via /vote custom start_sanctum, btw

[silent skies]

-- Reduced number of editor layers from 6 to 3
---- Foreground fog is in one layer
---- Collidable terrain + noncollidable roots and grass are now all in the same layer
---- BG fog and the two BG terrain layers, as well as a gray base all compressed into one image and one editor layer.

This significantly reduced the filesize from ~1.8 mb to ~1.1 mb but didn't change the appearance.

Fixed the parralax issues that Karl mentioned, which also helped with performance.

nobo said his FPS was fine while playing it now, dunno if it works for everyone but I'm hopeful now.

Download link in first post updated to latest version.


Not certain about how to address length ... our 7v7 testing game just lasted about 26 mins.

(Edit: Someone who was trolling as...) Kuja mentioned reducing the spawn timer on the bomb to 25s from its default value. Sounds like a good idea to me ... thoughts?

[sunshineduck]

should be up ladder now

[silent skies]

So, has this gotten any playtime on ladder at all? It gets voted down every time I try, even though ppl on the server don't even know what it is -_-

[XX1]

Originally Posted by silent skies

So, has this gotten any playtime on ladder at all? It gets voted down every time I try, even though ppl on the server don't even know what it is -_-

http://www.altitudeladder.com/match....0&mode=tbd_5v5

Viola! Ladder game for you to look at.

People said it was purty good.
1 thing i would change is, Make map a bit smaller. the entire duration was 11 min. which is not bad at all, but for counters it just doesnt really work...
The top of the map is used way way more than i expected. especially for bomb runs/pushes. This map is def more of an offensive map than defensive. (you can compare with asteriods, which is more to the Defenders advantage).



;D

[shrode]

yeah this map was surprisingly awesome. Probably my favorite looking map to date. It is a unique map due to its size, but played surprisingly well and quick. The verticality of the map allows pushes to dominate unlike turtles, as XX2 was talking about. I feel like good runners will absolutely dominate the map.

[silent skies]

Thanks for the attention to the map, you guys.

I feel like good runners will absolutely dominate the map.

I can understand why that would be an issue ... donk said he'd probably own on this map (scary ), so I might try combining/simplifying one or two of the mini-paths directly adjacent to the base, if this becomes an intolerable problem.

I am still on the fence about whether the size is an issue ... doesn't sound like it's leading to awful stalemates.

[shrode]

The size isn't leading to a stalemate because there are so damn many options for a bomb runner.

[Kennedy]

The size of the bases themselves seems unusually large.

[silent skies]

Originally Posted by Kennedy

The size of the bases themselves seems unusually large.

I think they're default... one or two maps actually have smaller-than-norm bases, I think.

[XX1]

Another game. Courtesy of Shrode

http://www.altitudeladder.com/match....1&mode=tbd_5v5

*Donk played in this too*





Pretty much all parts of the map were used. I was amazed that Donk was not actually that strong near the base. Despite his team winning, he just wasn't as strong as he was on other maps which is well (great imo). Top wasn't actually that powerful or used that game, pushes were mainly through mid. One push was gone from low route and successful. I don't know how much more changes needs to be made (at least at this point in time to the map).

The pics above show some of JL's comments towards the map

[Para11ax]

I joined the Map Test server, and Altitude loaded the map tbd_sanctum_ls. My screen of perk setups appeared. The map looked like it was displaying properly, but my screen was stuttering and freezing. After I was disconnected, I got the error message: "Connection to game server timed out".

This has never happened to me before except on Sanctum. I think it might have occurred once, after which I joined the Map Test server a few hours later with success, while it was playing another map.

I haven't waited to see whether it will happen after this incident on another map, but I tried joining 3 times. Sanctum might continue to play indefinitely because it's just 2 bots on a huge map.

AFAIK, this only happens with the map tbd_sanctum_ls, not with tbd_sanctum. That is, it's only happened to me with tbd_sanctum_ls. Actually I don't know of any difference between the two; sanctum_ls looks just like the images in this thread.

Update: The map tbd_sanctum does not have this issue. But, with the tbd_sanctum_ls map issue, what I have described above happens whenever I load the map on the Map Test server, not just when I am joining. However, I still do not know of other differences between the two maps.

[silent skies]

the ls version was a test version I was playing around with a couple weeks ago while I was trying to figure out what was causing some massive performance issues, which have since then been fixed. I tried deleting the ls version from the server, and even though the map page says it was deleted it's still up on the server.