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#1
10-27-2009, 02:22 AM
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Thoughts regarding all the flaming / hatred
Edit: Woops not sure I was supposed to post this thread here. Feel free to move it to elsewhere if you feel it should be. My thought was that since my comments were relating to league admins and what was taking place I should post it here but perhaps I was mistaken now that I think about it.
**Warning: If you can't deal with constructive criticism please leave now*** Hey all, So I've noticed a lot of hostile things being said back and forth between admins and players and I feel like everyone needs to take a step back. I don't agree with how things are being done on either side and the other thread was locked before I had a chance to put in some real input other than just flaming. -----------------------@ Players------------------------- First off - to all the players that are upset over how things are going - I don't think you realize the time and effort put into something like this. I run a game called Humans vs. Zombies every semester at the college I'm at and we have over 300 people participating each semester. During the week the game takes place I give up my life 24/7 to try and run and organize everything. I have to deal with all sorts of complaints and issues that come up despite my best efforts. Often times I have players who are frustrated because they just see the game running its course and don't look behind the scenes. Over the past week alone I've gotten about 1000 text messages and 500 e-mails as the game progressed. I've spent weeks organizing and coming up with how I want the game to progress. While I know that the altitude tournament is not quite this bad, I do know that it's hard for a player to judge what is truly going on. I'm not saying that I agree with everything the admins have said because that would be a lie. However, before people are so quick to jump down the throats of all the admins because they were angry at something and made a mistake, think about what I just said. The stress of having to deal with all of the crap such as teams entering and leaving and having to reschedule and whatnot is fairly high. I know that I wouldn't want to run this tournament and have to deal with all of the crap people put forth. Another note: I think it is over the top to call the admins a nazi because they banned someone and explained that they ultimately have the right to ban people. I don't know if any of you are familiar with Godwin's law but I feel it applies here. He said: "As a Usenet [Internet] discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1." In other words, please don't fall into the "reductio ad hitlerum" ad hominem when trying to express your point of view as this is just a fallacy. In fact, by using this you discredit every single person who has some gripe with the admins (illogical, I know, but it's true about people). Furthermore, saying that you're going to run to your mommy (i.e. go tattletale on this game in other games by saying how people are mean) is so incredibly childish and immature that I have no idea how you can honestly think that is going to help in any way. People will most likely just laugh at you and think you're a troll. I'm not trying to make fun of you or insult you - I'm just trying to point out that maybe why the admins are getting mad is because of things like this. I know that if someone used that argument on me I'd laugh and ban them for not wanting to deal with that nonsense. Try and understand that the admins deal with this all the time from players and that it's easy to lose your cool when you have tons and tons of players bugging you. Sometimes people say things that they don't mean or don't think about when they are trying to deal with everyone. Also, realize that once someone has started to bug you, even the little things they do will bug you even more. Look at lammi, for instance. Sometimes he says things that aren't all that bad but because people are so annoyed with him due to his gargantuan amount of stupid posts people attack his other ones. Continuing, there are some things that are easy to avoid but, if done, get harsh punishments. I feel like these things are obvious and I have posted them before. Such things as spectating when a match is scheduled, not spamming, not calling random votes, etc are just dumb. Don't do them and you won't get banned. The player base should not be afraid of being banned as long as they take the time to read and listen. Lastly, I want to point out that despite my numerous criticisms of the admins or the things that they have done, I have yet to be banned or kicked by any of them and I have not gotten a single infraction on the forums from them. I have a hard time imagining what someone needs to do or say to get Tyr or Kuja really wanting to ban them for a season or multiple seasons. I just don't see them as being totally unrealistic people. Perhaps a simple apology or explanation of one's thoughts might help solve these things? -----------------------@ Admins------------------------- Now I know that all of you are giving up a lot of your time to run this and I appreciate it. However, there is a limit to what one can get away with by using the excuse that you run it and you have the right to do what you want. Now I don't really know everything that went down with CCN, but I have seen a lot of nonsense coming out of certain admins. I have had problems with the things you (being Evil, Tyr, and Kuja) have said multiple times and I have tried to point those out at each time. After I tried to be polite and respectful and point out what I thought was wrong with your posts 1 of the 3 admins defriended me on Altitude (a rather childish act) and 1 of you starting flaming me using arguments as nonsensical and ignorant as the ones the players are using. I highly recommend if you want the respect of the players to give the same respect in return. I know it's difficult trying to post respectful comments when you feel people are being stupid and annoying but I feel like people would respect all of you a lot more if there weren't such posts as "How old are you again?" ... "Because you are going to be wrong" -> implying that that person was always right. Sometimes one has to suck it up and be the bigger person and not get involved in such petty nonsense (or if you do be very polite about it). Now don't get me wrong - I have seen posts from all of you that are respectful and polite in bad situations and I admire that - but even a few nasty posts can make people's opinions of you decrease. Continuing, while it is hard to run the tournament - I fail to see why there is such an issue with organizing match times. Simply looking over a document to make sure the same teams are not scheduled for the same times as well as making sure every team is scheduled should not take that much time. Furthermore, getting correct times are not that difficult. There are even nice web apps that can help with this. The little things like that would help players respect all of you more; and, in turn, your ability to run this tournament. Next, I think it's silly that all admins have to agree in order to unban someone. It is obvious that Evil and CCN don't like each other and Evil won't unban CCN anytime soon. If Kuja and Tyr feel it's justified to unban him I fail to see why he wouldn't be unbanned. It seems unfair to run things like that (although I know it has been pointed out that things don't need to be fair - which seems silly as I could argue about the fairness of banning an annoying player because you run the tournament / servers). With all of this being said, I want to clarify that I, personally, do not group all of you together. I have very different opinions about each of you - however players often times group the leaders of a game together even if that's unfair. I just think you guys need to step back and try and see why there is such hostility forming instead of immediately going on the defensive because of all that you have put into this. If you do see people being offensive, try and be the better person and not turn into a 13 year old and spew off insult after insult. ---------------------------@Everyone------------ Sorry if I've offended any of you - it was not my intention. Hopefully at least one person might read this and gain a better understanding of where both sides are coming from. Last edited by mikesol; 10-27-2009 at 02:33 PM. 
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#4
10-27-2009, 04:34 AM
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It's really nice to have someone who knows what's up give a 3rd person view of whats going on. I hope everyone reads this and calms down a bit. And my note to everyone------>The tourneys are for fun and the players enjoyment, let's not crush the HAPPY!
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#7
10-27-2009, 06:28 AM
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"Sometimes one has to suck it up and be the bigger person and not get involved in such petty nonsense (or if you do be very polite about it)"
Definitely a skill worth having (esp. in RL) and one I need to gain, you make it look so easy :S. But thats why I respect you a lot Mr.Sol Also, don't nerf time anchor its hard enough as it is to play 0-o. None can do what Mikesol does with that bomb, its not like Zerg got nerfed by Jaedong. Btw, Watch the Hyuk Vs Jaedong mirror match, Cholera may be doing a commentary soon (like definitely).
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#10
10-27-2009, 11:39 AM
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In agreement with mike's post.
I constantly say that i'm greatful to those who give their time to do what they do....on another note especially Kuja you have my sincere apology, i lowered myself by going off on one. sorry BTW...Mikesol for admin?...i'd support it. Last edited by classicallad; 10-27-2009 at 11:41 AM.
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#11
10-27-2009, 12:05 PM
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Mike is great at wording things that might be difficult for others. I agree with your post completely. If both sides keep fighting it just gets worse i guess. We're all in this together and lets hope the players and admins get along to see this league through.
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