Shyney's Demo Thread

[Shyney]

Originally Posted by nesnl

I can't imagine it's a ton of work and I think it would really promote Demo players to buy the game.

I dont get it... People believe stripping features from the demo is actually going to "promote" players buying the game??

Well let me know how that is working out for you guys..

[mikesol]

Originally Posted by Shyney

I dont get it... People believe stripping features from the demo is actually going to "promote" players buying the game??

Well let me know how that is working out for you guys..

I'm unsure the difficulty of understanding this concept. Demo is supposed to be one of two things:

1) You get the full version for a set amount of time whether it be 10 days or 10 tries or whatnot and then you can never get it again until you buy it.

OR

2) You get a very limited experience of the game and must buy the full version to get the rest.

This is the standard in the industry. People work hard to make games like this and they deserve credit for it. Giving away everything in a free demo version makes it so people don't see a need to buy the real game. If everything is unlocked in the demo and you don't have any incentive to buy the full game you won't.

I fail to understand how there could be any argument against this other than people that want to exploit others out of their money.

[nesnl]

Originally Posted by Shyney

I dont get it... People believe stripping features from the demo is actually going to "promote" players buying the game??

Well let me know how that is working out for you guys..

Shyney is right. I just realized it. Your mistake was in restricting the demo players. I think you should follow his advice and unlock all the planes and all the perks for every demo player. Then the people will buy the game because they have access to everything (although the purchased game will be the exact same as the demo game).

Shyney, sometimes I wonder where you come up with your half-brained comments. Let me know how this great plan of yours works out for you.

[Shyney]

Originally Posted by nesnl

Shyney is right. I just realized it. Your mistake was in restricting the demo players. I think you should follow his advice and unlock all the planes and all the perks for every demo player. Then the people will buy the game because they have access to everything (although the purchased game will be the exact same as the demo game).

Shyney, sometimes I wonder where you come up with your half-brained comments. Let me know how this great plan of yours works out for you.

Relax Maimer! i said nothing like that!
Im simply saying stripping features from a demo, that is already struggling to convert people to buying the game is a fantastically bad idea. And it shouldnt take a genius to figure that out, or figure out that its already NOT working...
And again, ill let you guys keep coming up with these brilliant ideas that are already not working, and let me know how it works out for the game... its going great so far...

I dont play anymore.. this isnt for me, its for Altitude.

[mikesol]

Originally Posted by Shyney

Relax Maimer! i said nothing like that!
Im simply saying stripping features from a demo, that is already struggling to convert people to buying the game is a fantastically bad idea. And it shouldnt take a genius to figure that out, or figure out that its already NOT working...
And again, ill let you guys keep coming up with these brilliant ideas that are already not working, and let me know how it works out for the game... its going great so far...

I dont play anymore.. this isnt for me, its for Altitude.

Note: Maimer's suggestion was to not strip any features from demo. It was to add more features to the game and not allow demo users to utilize those. That's quite different.

Also, the reason people are not buying the game is not because of the lack of features in demo. It's because of the lack of player base, lack of exposure to the game, and hostility in the community.

Really there has been tons of research done into this. Leaving out key features of the game is how you encourage people to buy it. It seems to me like you're just making up this idea in your head that giving away more makes people more likely to buy it. How is this remotely logical?

Stop trying to bend statistics incorrectly by being like "Oh let me attack your opinions by the fact that things aren't working right now." We are wanting to limit the demo even more and further encourage people to buy the game. As it is you have people playing hundreds of hours because they see no reason to buy it. Take this away and people are more likely to buy the game.

[nesnl]

Originally Posted by Shyney

Relax Maimer! i said nothing like that!
Im simply saying stripping features from a demo, that is already struggling to convert people to buying the game is a fantastically bad idea. And it shouldnt take a genius to figure that out, or figure out that its already NOT working...
And again, ill let you guys keep coming up with these brilliant ideas that are already not working, and let me know how it works out for the game... its going great so far...

I dont play anymore.. this isnt for me, its for Altitude.

I think the problem is you see the issue in only one way: that Altitude isn't providing enough features to convert demo players to players who buy the game. What I think fail to realize is that maybe the demo is providing too much and therefore providing a disincentive to buy. You see it is important (and doesn't take a genius for this either) to realize that this could be the problem. I think this point is proven even more so when you consider that you had played this game for forever (and for who knows how many hours) and yet you never bought the game. You were a classic example of someone who was left in too comfortable situation with no pressure to buy it.

And the funny part is you never read the original post. I never spoke of stripping anything from anyone. I was talking about implementing a new feature that you would have to buy the game to be able to access, but I don't want to bother you with the facts or anything. Those aren't for you either apparently.

Oh and just so it's clear, the Demo players would still be able to see the Leader Boards, just not be able to be a part of them. Want to make sure that's clear so that you won't saying something along the lines of "show them what is available so they will have more incentive" or whatever.

[Loli.ta]

I just want to pipe in, with the supporting of more stuff for paid players and possibly show that demos could be missing out on a lot of stuff.

[Shyney]

K im only going to respond to you, as the other guy dosnt have a clue so ill leave him be to embarrass himself.

Originally Posted by nesnl

I think the problem is you see the issue in only one way: that Altitude isn't providing enough features to convert demo players to players who buy the game.

Im sorry, but why does this have to be about me?? Im talking about whats best for altitude, and the best response you guys can come up with is "Shyney is nuts"... I am NOT saying altitude isn't providing enough features.. All i am saying is that stripping features, or going out of your way to screw the demo players more, is CLEARLY not working, and HAS not worked at all in the past. Continuing to do so will continue to result in the failure that altitude is experiencing now.

I believe i said "Well let me know how that is working out for you guys.. " Well, ill give you a hint.. its not, and it wont.

Originally Posted by nesnl

What I think fail to realize is that maybe the demo is providing too much and therefore providing a disincentive to buy. You see it is important (and doesn't take a genius for this either) to realize that this could be the problem.

I have never said this couldnt be a problem. Clearly the current setup IS NOT WORKING My personal stance is that, that is not the case. As the demo certainly dose not provide much more then basic functionality(this is just my opinion, you do not have to like it).

Originally Posted by nesnl

I think this point is proven even more so when you consider that you had played this game for forever (and for who knows how many hours) and yet you never bought the game. You were a classic example of someone who was left in too comfortable situation with no pressure to buy it.

Sorry, but this actually proves your own point wrong, as the vast majority of people in "my situation"(read: played a ton over the years), bought the game. Your own reasoning suggest everyone should have been left in "too comfortable a situation with no pressure to buy". That is obviously not the case, so there goes that argument.

Originally Posted by nesnl

And the funny part is you never read the original post. I never spoke of stripping anything from anyone. I was talking about implementing a new feature that you would have to buy the game to be able to access, but I don't want to bother you with the facts or anything. Those aren't for you either apparently.

Again, you are talking about targeting a group of people who already do not think altitude is worth buying, and you want to screw them more, to give them more reason to dislike the game, and you think that is going to get them to line up to buy the it... you cant be serious.. talk about half brained ideas..

You guys keep coming up with this nonsense, and NO ONE stops to think "hey, why arent people buying the game". NO ONE has stopped to come up with a reason other then, lets screw the demo players, that oughta do it.
Why are people not buying the game??

Ill tell you what, ill leave you guys alone, to come up with more genius ideas, to screw the demo half the community more, perhaps you could harass them more?? kick them from more games? continue to introduce ideas that only serve to split the community more, instead of trying to bring the community together, and make the demo players feel like part of it so they have a reason to buy the god damn game. I mean sure, that hasnt worked in the past, but failure seems to be the way to go here.

If at first you dont succeed, fail, fail again.. Good work.

[mikesol]

Originally Posted by Shyney

K im only going to respond to you, as the other guy dosnt have a clue so ill leave him be to embarrass himself.

Originally Posted by Shyney

the best response you guys can come up with is "Shyney is nuts"...

Originally Posted by Shyney

talk about half brained ideas...

You guys keep coming up with this nonsense...

If at first you dont succeed, fail, fail again.. Good work.

Hypocritical much? QED

[nesnl]

Originally Posted by Shyney

K im only going to respond to you, as the other guy dosnt have a clue so ill leave him be to embarrass himself.

So someone agrees with me and all the sudden he doesn't have a clue? Good reasoning.

Originally Posted by Shyney

Im sorry, but why does this have to be about me?? Im talking about whats best for altitude, and the best response you guys can come up with is "Shyney is nuts"... I am NOT saying altitude isn't providing enough features.. All i am saying is that stripping features, or going out of your way to screw the demo players more, is CLEARLY not working, and HAS not worked at all in the past. Continuing to do so will continue to result in the failure that altitude is experiencing now.

I believe i said "Well let me know how that is working out for you guys.. " Well, ill give you a hint.. its not, and it wont.

Whose to say you screw the demo player in the first place? I want you to honest sit there and tell me that giving demo player access to 2/5 planes, 2 perks, and unlimited time (not to mention no restriction on servers or game types) and tell me that that is "screwing over the demo player." Please I would like to see you say that so this conversation can end.

Originally Posted by Shyney

I have never said this couldnt be a problem. Clearly the current setup IS NOT WORKING My personal stance is that, that is not the case. As the demo certainly dose not provide much more then basic functionality(this is just my opinion, you do not have to like it).

So we have gone from "going out of your way to screw demo players more is clearly not working" to "this is just my opinion." Well atleast you admit that it's just your opinion and not a fact. However, you still want to ride this idea through the whole post that the demo is somehow too stripped down.

Originally Posted by Shyney

Sorry, but this actually proves your own point wrong, as the vast majority of people in "my situation"(read: played a ton over the years), bought the game. Your own reasoning suggest everyone should have been left in "too comfortable a situation with no pressure to buy". That is obviously not the case, so there goes that argument.

Yes, it is true, most of the really old veterans bought the game. However, most of the players in the beta did not buy, so even though you want to characterize the entire pre-release population by just that small group of vets, unfortunately there goes your argument.

Originally Posted by Shyney

Again, you are talking about targeting a group of people who already do not think altitude is worth buying, and you want to screw them more, to give them more reason to dislike the game, and you think that is going to get them to line up to buy the it... you cant be serious.. talk about half brained ideas..

You guys keep coming up with this nonsense, and NO ONE stops to think "hey, why arent people buying the game". NO ONE has stopped to come up with a reason other then, lets screw the demo players, that oughta do it.
Why are people not buying the game??

Ill tell you what, ill leave you guys alone, to come up with more genius ideas, to screw the demo half the community more, perhaps you could harass them more?? kick them from more games? continue to introduce ideas that only serve to split the community more, instead of trying to bring the community together, and make the demo players feel like part of it so they have a reason to buy the god damn game. I mean sure, that hasnt worked in the past, but failure seems to be the way to go here.

If at first you dont succeed, fail, fail again.. Good work.

You see you again fall back on your opinion (which I obviously think is wrong) but you state it as fact. The issue is: why are people not buying the game. But you try to make it out like the issue is: people have already decided the game isn't worth buying because of the game itself and not because the demo is good enough for them. That is where you argument falls apart because when it is convenient you say "oh that's just my opinion" and then when it is convenient you say "the demo is too restricting."

You see to make a proper argument you need to back up your points. My point is that I think the Altitude Demo provides TOO MUCH functionality. It allowed people LIKE YOU to freeload for as long as you wanted and have access to almost the ENTIRE game. So my ideas are going to revolve around giving the demo less functionality and the paying users more functionality. Does this even make sense to you?

I am going to leave you with a story. When I first started playing WoW I played the demo. It allowed you to play up to level 20, 10 days, and you weren't allowed to trade with other players. Do you think that when I hit level 20 (or if I had hit 10 days) that I said "this demo is too restrictive, this sucks." Hell no, I hit 20 and then wanted to keep leveling up so I paid up. Now if WoW let me choose 2/5 races and level all the way up to 80 (max level) and never have a time limit, I am sure there would be half the people in WoW in that exact situation.

Shyney, I am sorry but you have no business sense and quite obviously were not on the debate team either! And wtf, your incoherent argument has totally hijacked my thread about getting leaderboards up in the game.

[AtomikPi]

Originally Posted by nesnl

I am going to leave you with a story. When I first started playing WoW I played the demo. It allowed you to play up to level 20, 10 days, and you weren't allowed to trade with other players. Do you think that when I hit level 20 (or if I had hit 10 days) that I said "this demo is too restrictive, this sucks." Hell no, I hit 20 and then wanted to keep leveling up so I paid up. Now if WoW let me choose 2/5 races and level all the way up to 80 (max level) and never have a time limit, I am sure there would be half the people in WoW in that exact situation.

Just a quick nit to pick. It would be more like 2 classes with a limited moveset. Also, WoW has a very solid base of players and would rather lose a free-rider to save the cost of serving him/her (WoW has central servers and thus higher operating costs) than have an even larger base. If WoW had a smaller community, it would need to provide more incentives for people to keep paying up to keep the base at a decent size.

Perhaps the demo offers a bit too much in terms of gameplay, but on the other hand some demo players might just quit if the functionality is limited in time. There's not much more of a reduction in functionality possible without severely reducing the player base. There are already normally only a few full servers. Altitude is better off with, say, 1000 owners and 2000 demos than 1100 owners and 500 demos (ie with enough players to play somewhat hobbled games rather than enough to not play many games at all). That's because a game with demos is better than no game at all, and providing the service to those demos costs basically nothing.

I think a better solution is to encourage demo players to upgrade with tastes of the full experience (free weekends). That benefits the demo users who get to try it at no cost and the owners of the game who benefit from both being able to play games with more normal plane distribution in the short run (during free weekends) and in the long term (more full game players). The free weekends would need to be rare and unpredictable to prevent demos from only playing during free weekends and having essentially full functionality. More minor negative incentives than a hard limit on time could include advertising (pop-ups, banners) and automatic kicking to make way for paying players (after all one purpose of demos is to provide other players for payers to play with).

OK that wasn't quick. I got carried away. Please do get back to discussing a leaderboard.

[Shyney]

Originally Posted by nesnl

So someone agrees with me and all the sudden he doesn't have a clue? Good reasoning.

Shyney, I am sorry but you have no business sense and quite obviously were not on the debate team either! And wtf, your incoherent argument has totally hijacked my thread about getting leaderboards up in the game.

Ok this is too easy..
first, that "someone who agreed with you", lets call him, "the village idiot", jumps in, as if on cue, to attack me without a mention of the argument at hand, exactly as i said was the best he could muster.. And all because he cannot tell the difference between responding directly to his post, and referencing is moronic ideas. Im sorry but that was just awesome. I couldnt possibly have scripted that any better.. I wouldnt hang any weight on his opinion..

Second, ill concede I clearly misrepresented my ideas, or you took it wrong, when i said "this is just my opinion" i was speaking strictly to whether or not the game offers too much functionality to the demo user(you believe it dose, and i do not, you do not have to agree with me on that). What you do need to agree with me on to move forward is whether or not further stripping the demo users experience is going to get them to buy the game. IT IS NOT, you've tried it, it has failed. You've tried the stick... its time to try the carrot..

Originally Posted by nesnl

It allowed people LIKE YOU to freeload for as long as you wanted and have access to almost the ENTIRE game. So my ideas are going to revolve around giving the demo less functionality and the paying users more functionality. Does this even make sense to you?

Yes absolutely... Ok... Now.. is it working??
At some point you guys have to sit back, and come up with a better solution then "how can we screw with the demo player, to force them to buy the game".. because that strategy is not working.. that is not opinion. that is fact.

Now, to sit there and question my credentials and business sense, based on a game/business that is by all accounts a failure is pretty foolish, even for you. I do not want to get into an argument on what constitutes a failure of this business, I do not have access to Lam/Karls numbers, but from what i've seen, the turn rate for this product if absolutely abysmal. That is to say the number of people who have downloaded and played this game vs number of copies sold.. If I had a turn rate like that, at any business that i ever ran, I would be fired on the spot.. So something is wrong.

You know its really easy to sit there gang up on me, and say im wrong, when everyone that agrees with me(which is the vast majority of people that have played the game) aren't around to correct you. Everyone else that thought the demo wasn't good enough to make them want to buy the game is long gone... Do you really not realize your opinion is actually the minority??

You have to stop this "screw the potential customer base" nonsense. And take a different direction on the issue. Why are people downloading the game, playing it, and then not buying it(demos not becoming full). When you clear all the crap out of the way you are left with 2 key points. Either.
The game is not worth the price presented to the customer, or
people do not enjoy the game, ie, the game sucks.
And the game doesn't suck..

And your solution to this problem is offer less to the demo user(potential customer), well thats just genius.. And for some reason you guys cant figure out, why this isnt working? I mean come on..

I am a retail manager, that is all Ive done for the last 5 years.. the last store I ran(was the store manager of), was 13.5k square feet(selling), and was trending 6 million a year in sales, with upwards of 50 staff. I run business for a living, and I will gladly submit my resume to Lam, and clear him to check my references if he wants, and if that would make you feel better, about not have a ****ing clue what you are talking about.

Number of multimillion dollar business I've had part in running.. 4.
You?? Alright then. And that would be fine if altitude was a success, you could tell me to shut up, and piss off.. but whoops.. its not.

Ill end this with an offer for you to continue this vs PM, i do not wish to further clutter your thread about leader boards(which is a good idea).

[Beagle]

I just stopped reading the posts after Shyney made his first big one. Guys, we don't need this many words to point out that yes, he is a moron.

Originally Posted by Shyney

DEMOS SHOULD GIVE THE ENTIRE GAME TO THE PLAYER FOR FREE FOR NO CONSTRAINTS AND IF THEY LIKE IT THEY'LL BUY IT

THIS IS YOU SHYNEY, THIS IS WHAT YOU SOUND LIKE

Originally Posted by nesnl

I AM FEEDING THE MORON

THIS IS YOU MAIMER, THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE DOING

[hurripilot]

Shyney, somewhere up there you mentioned that you don't play Alt anymore. If this is really true, then just gtfo. Srsly? There are a ton of games I don't play anymore because I thought the dev teams and/or communities were full of ****. Do you think I went around stalking their forums looking for ways to take my butthurt out on them? No, I did not, because I have a life to live. Maim and Mike are NOT, full of it, but you seem to think they are, so just leave. You obviously didn't care enough about Alt to shell out a measly 20 for it, so why are you hanging around arguing? Go take your daily frustrations out on people who give a crap.

This was a thread for leader boards once upon a time, let's keep it that way. I agree that this is a feature demos should not be included in. After all, would any demos even have a shot at getting on the boards with all the amazing paid players around?

P.S.- I'm starting a thread in the Water Cooler about demos and functionality they should/shouldn't have. This can be a place to vent about this issue. It seems that everytime someone has a thought that is even remotely related to functionality, a huge bitchfest ensues and takes over the thread, much like this one.

[mikesol]

Originally Posted by Shyney

I am a retail manager, that is all Ive done for the last 5 years.. the last store I ran(was the store manager of), was 13.5k square feet(selling), and was trending 6 million a year in sales, with upwards of 50 staff. I run business for a living, and I will gladly submit my resume to Lam, and clear him to check my references if he wants, and if that would make you feel better, about not have a ****ing clue what you are talking about.

Number of multimillion dollar business I've had part in running.. 4.
You??

For someone who has so many millions of dollars it sure seems crazy that you won't shell out $20 on a video game that you spent hundreds of hours in...

Oh wait I forgot this is the internet. You can make up whatever you want about yourself. Dude I just got a PhD from Harvard and MIT at the same time O_O

[Evan20000]

Originally Posted by mikesol

Dude I just got a PhD from Harvard and MIT at the same time O_O

Noob. I was the first man on the moon AND led the french revolution!

[nesnl]

Man, this thread really got dumped on. My poor leader boards idea Please Lam/Karl, ignore all this junk and just focus on the idea.

I think the biggest problem in the debate going on here is that Shyney seems to think that:

"What you do need to agree with me on to move forward is whether or not further stripping the demo users experience is going to get them to buy the game. IT IS NOT, you've tried it, it has failed. You've tried the stick... its time to try the carrot.."

This is the fatal flaw in his argument that he seems to think is fact. I ask anyone, Shyney included, to cite me any example of where Lamster/Karl have stripped the demo down. The Demo has been the same since release. On that note it is one of the most, if not THE MOST, generous Demos I have ever encountered on any program, not just games. So when you say we have tried the stick what exactly is the stick? If this is your idea of a stick then what is your idea of the carrot? I honestly want to know, if you could craft the demo the exact way you wanted, either Shyney or anyone else, what would it be?

[Evan20000]

I don't think there will be any getting through to him.

On a side note, there should be an assists stat on the leaderboards. I feel that this stat is under tracked.

[Carbon]

I'm curious how someone can think that adding content for paying customers is "stripping features from the demo". If something wasn't there to begin with you can't take it away from something.

As it stands Altitude is extremely generous to demo users. If a game even has a demo it is often a very limited single player demo and you have to guess if multiplayer is good. Most multiplayer demos are in the form of "free weekends" for popular games like TF2 or Killing Floor. With altitude people are able to basically see the entire content of the game, and even though they can't play 3/5 planes or use many of the perks they still get to see the whole game and can decide if they think it is worth paying for.

[DryBone]

Don't want to read so no clue wats going on but
Just be good at using it you get some respect.
Trust me, I'm a demo user too

[Luke]

Originally Posted by nesnl

if you could craft the demo the exact way you wanted, what would it be?

I've been for a long time a demo user (170h) when i finally decided to buy the game. Reason? I just wanted more, was getting tired of loopy-ing around and those few perks were limiting me ("why am I using the rubber hull if I can fly without touching walls?").

Anyway, two important considerations.
1) If the demo had some sort of time limit (i.e. at lvl 60 you must buy the game, or cannot join officials servers, etc) I would probably haven't bought the game. It's very quick to reach lvl60, I didn't appreciate fully the game potential and I would have left it.
2) If the full game had more features, I would have bought it A LOT sooner.

My point is, add a few more planes (a jet and an heli? :P), add lvls far over 60, add a few other appealing features.
Although I do not agree with shyney, I think he made a point.

Originally Posted by Shyney

The game is not worth the price presented to the customer

Many demos think like this, so make the game offer more than 3 planes and perks.

[Beagle]

Originally Posted by Luke

Although I do not agree with shyney, I think he made a point.

"The game is not worth the price presented to the customer"

Many demos think like this, so make the game offer more than 3 planes and perks.

If the game is not worth the price presented to the customer, you're implying the game is bad, seeing as $20 is a very low price for a game. If you don't think the game is good, why would you play for 170 hours?

You have certainly laid out what 'many demos think like' - they think the extra features are not worth the price presented to the customer. This is exactly why I and many other people are of the opinion that the demo is too generous - the players are happy to stay on the demo for a very long time, because they don't feel like buying the extra features by paying for the game.

If you spend that many hours playing a game, I'd estimate that a $20 price is 'worth it'.


HOWEVER
One thing EVERYONE here including me needs to realise is that this is a FUTILE argument. The only people here who are truly and seriously affected by the demos are Lam and Karl themselves, and they must be happy with the situation or else they would change it. It is abso-total-outely pointless to argue the point over whether or not the demo should be less generous, because its not our demo, and its not our game. I'm sure Lam and Karl have considered the demo situation a lot more thouroughly than we have, seeing as how it affects them so much more seriously. Any discussion we go into is meaningless.

The only real reason for a demo argument thread is if a demo player starts arguing that the demo needs more features - then, go nuts! And in a roundabout way, this thread is almost about that, which is why its been so successful, but I think its time to pack it in.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Beagle

If the game is not worth the price presented to the customer, you're implying the game is bad, seeing as $20 is a very low price for a game. If you don't think the game is good, why would you play for 170 hours?

You misunderstood me.
First, I bought the game 'cause I like it and I think it deserved those 20 bucks. I simply pointed out that many demos do not think so.
Second, something good must not necessarily be worthed the price, that is something different for each one of us.

Without doubt a Lamborghini Reventon is an marvellous car, but this does not imply that FOR ME it's worthed the price.

[Beagle]

Originally Posted by Luke

You misunderstood me.
First, I bought the game 'cause I like it and I think it deserved those 20 bucks. I simply pointed out that many demos do not think so.
Second, something good must not necessarily be worthed the price, that is something different for each one of us.

Without doubt a Lamborghini Reventon is an marvellous car, but this does not imply that FOR ME it's worthed the price.

Yeah, its alright, I realised you weren't talking about yourself, although I may have worded it unintentionally to sound like that.

As for it being worth the price - you're right, thats different for everyone in a way, but we can also agree that it isn't impossible to say something is good value regardless of what other people think of the price. If I found a Mustang for twenty thousand, I'm sure you'd agree that's good value. However, in the case of the Lambo, there is a difference between it not being worth the price and you not being able to afford it. If you had barely enough cash to buy one, you'd be quite right to conclude that you shouldn't buy it right now. That doesn't mean it isn't worth the money.

[eth]

Probably demos also dont buy because they think "why should I buy when I already have 90% access to the game?".

Another thing that could be done was give demos 10 hours of playtime with all planes upon reaching lvl 60. Then theyd really feel what theyre missing out on when they have to go back to rubber hull loopy.

[evilarsenal]

if anyone truly respects this game, and it's community, they will pay 20 dollars, and be willing to spend more ( i am ^-^)

[Evan20000]

My first thought when I saw the pricetag was "that's it?". I sat there for 30 min trying to figure out if it would be 20$ per month or something. This game was easily the best 20$ I've ever spent.

[Triped]

Really, 30 minutes?

The best $20 I ever spent was on my marriage license.

[evilarsenal]

the best 20 dollars i ever spent were on kuja's sex line

[Evan20000]

Originally Posted by evilarsenal

the best 20 dollars i ever spent were on kuja's sex line

Spoiler: It's a trap.

[Beagle]

The best $20 I ever spent was the cheap bottle of wine I got my girlfriend drunk with.

My girlfriend being Kuja of course.

[Evan20000]

She cheated on you with Evil.

[wolf'j'max]

This thread became nonsense and shiney just don't
Know anything about being payed for your hard work.
If maimer don't want it than not but can someone close this thread??