Add Fallout To the Mappool

[Kuja900]

Fallout is a truly unique and visually appealing map that is worthy of the official map pool. I'm not quite sure why it hasn't been added yet, it definitely would be far from the weakest map in the pool.

edit: I'm referring to the official servers map pool.

[AtomikPi]

Fundamentally, any map with a major obstruction in the middle is flawed. The clearest example is hills, which is a complete joke and should not be an official map. Even in more mild versions with less chokepoints, maps with middle obstructions, or even maps with too many vertical obstructions in general tend to become very slow paced and campy. Fallout, while better than lost city and hills, is not a well-playing map, and especially not for anything other than competitive play, since it would turn into a camp fest on public servers.

I agree that fallout is pretty, but that's not really relevant.

[Pieface]

Besides, Fallout already is an official map. You can see the full list of official maps here:
http://wiki.altitudegame.com/wiki/in...=Official_Maps

[nesnl]

What he is saying is that he wants Fallout to be on the Official Servers since the map has already been made official. I think the server config files for the official servers just needs to be updated.

And I think we can all agree that it's time to remove the original ball_mayhem from the game and replace it with ball_mayhem2. Ball_mayhem is just annoying with its choke points and its traversable passageway up top which in the end make it not fun to play and often results in games with everyone getting 100+ kills. Rally for mayhem2!!!

[GGQ]

imo the last choke is a little too tight

[Beagle]

Originally Posted by AtomikPi

Fundamentally, any map with a major obstruction in the middle is flawed. The clearest example is hills, which is a complete joke and should not be an official map. Even in more mild versions with less chokepoints, maps with middle obstructions, or even maps with too many vertical obstructions in general tend to become very slow paced and campy. Fallout, while better than lost city and hills, is not a well-playing map, and especially not for anything other than competitive play, since it would turn into a camp fest on public servers.

I agree that fallout is pretty, but that's not really relevant.

I see only postulating, and no proof to back any of it up.

Just saying, having such strong statements without any explanation isn't a good strategy for winning over people who aren't already map experts.

[AtomikPi]

Originally Posted by Beagle

I see only postulating, and no proof to back any of it up.

Just saying, having such strong statements without any explanation isn't a good strategy for winning over people who aren't already map experts.

Yes, I probably didn't give enough explanation since I was going to eat in a minute. So I'll do the analysis now. Let's see when we have camping and find reasons.

1) Hills - major vertical obstruction with only two chokes makes this map virtually unplayable.

2) Lost City - 3 chokes is marginally better, but especially with 7v7, the middle obstruction makes this a campfest

3) Cave - another middle choke, in this case not as bad because (i) there are a decent number of holes and (ii) the bottom is spread out so there's a pseudo-middle area - cave can be a very decent map but I think it falls short of a few others

4) Middleground/Locomotion - No middle choke, and not quite as campy as some maps, but again the major vertical obstructions do encourage people to play defensively - not as bad as the above maps, in my experience

Now let's look at some maps that imo play well

1) Asteroids - undisputed best map in altitude, in the eyes of most players. It has no blockage in the middle and there's a flow back and forth between sides

2) Core - No middle blockage, again plays very well with minimal camping

3) Grotto - same as above

4) Mayhem - same as above

[Stormich]

LoL saying that core and mayhem are more playable than cave. I played fallout a fair deal and I can say that it's a really good map even if it does have that middle rock, its wide enough to be hard to spam, and the bottom paths are really good.

[Kuja900]

Originally Posted by AtomikPi

Yes, I probably didn't give enough explanation since I was going to eat in a minute. So I'll do the analysis now. Let's see when we have camping and find reasons.

1) Hills - major vertical obstruction with only two chokes makes this map virtually unplayable.

2) Lost City - 3 chokes is marginally better, but especially with 7v7, the middle obstruction makes this a campfest

3) Cave - another middle choke, in this case not as bad because (i) there are a decent number of holes and (ii) the bottom is spread out so there's a pseudo-middle area - cave can be a very decent map but I think it falls short of a few others

4) Middleground/Locomotion - No middle choke, and not quite as campy as some maps, but again the major vertical obstructions do encourage people to play defensively - not as bad as the above maps, in my experience

Now let's look at some maps that imo play well

1) Asteroids - undisputed best map in altitude, in the eyes of most players. It has no blockage in the middle and there's a flow back and forth between sides

2) Core - No middle blockage, again plays very well with minimal camping

3) Grotto - same as above

4) Mayhem - same as above

Ok this isnt pertinent to my original point but I just need to say "3)" is just crap lol grotto while cool is a total campfest in 7v7 lol.

[Beagle]

Originally Posted by AtomikPi

4) Middleground - not quite as campy as some maps,

KYYYYYAAAAAAAAAA HA HA HA HAH AH AHW HAWWHAWHAHAHA *snrk*

Middleground is my favourite map but holy dicks have you even played it? Its the biggest campfest, the only difference is one team will be camping in the middle and the other will be camping their side of the tower.

I just played some captain's games of Fallout, I had never played it before. It was great fun and the style is wonderful, a very polished map and instantly a favourite, and I did not see camping ONCE. The middle choke is barely even a choke.

[-MH-CaptainVogez]

Originally Posted by Beagle

KYYYYYAAAAAAAAAA HA HA HA HAH AH AHW HAWWHAWHAHAHA *snrk*

Middleground is my favourite map but holy dicks have you even played it? Its the biggest campfest, the only difference is one team will be camping in the middle and the other will be camping their side of the tower.

I just played some captain's games of Fallout, I had never played it before. It was great fun and the style is wonderful, a very polished map and instantly a favourite, and I did not see camping ONCE. The middle choke is barely even a choke.

I heart this more

and it is way better than core in particular

[DiogenesDog]

What Beagle said.

[eth]

Fallout plays a bit similar to cave with regards to the middle.. the bottom paths are pretty good. Also new middleground is substantially less campy than the old one, since you can spam rockets and **** up the new hole. Avoiding camping completely is just impossible.. even if there were no obstacles, people would still be flying on circles on their part of the map.

[hurripilot]

Yah, I agree with eth. Fallout plays however each team wants it to. With maps like Hills and LC, you're kind of obliged to camp because both top chokes are completely locked off if there's even one Loopy, Bomber, or Explo sitting there spaming. In Fallout, the top choke is wider and taller, making it harder to spam into, and therefore easier for each side to traverse. Also, the bottom route is a bit more viable as a running path for the bomb than in either LC or Hills (or Middleground, for that matter).

[Kuja900]

I also have to wonder why is Hills still in the pool, it is universally disliked. Is it just for nostalgic reasons?

[Loli.ta]

Originally Posted by Kuja900

I also have to wonder why is Hills still in the pool, it is universally disliked. Is it just for nostalgic reasons?

So noobs can say they are good on a rather "easy" map.

[DiogenesDog]

I kinda like Hills. I wouldn't want to play a league game on it, but it's fun to just have a chaotic killfest every now and then. And the games are usually over pretty fast, so it's done before I'm sick of it.

[AtomikPi]

Originally Posted by Beagle

KYYYYYAAAAAAAAAA HA HA HA HAH AH AHW HAWWHAWHAHAHA *snrk*

Middleground is my favourite map but holy dicks have you even played it? Its the biggest campfest, the only difference is one team will be camping in the middle and the other will be camping their side of the tower.

I just played some captain's games of Fallout, I had never played it before. It was great fun and the style is wonderful, a very polished map and instantly a favourite, and I did not see camping ONCE. The middle choke is barely even a choke.

I didn't say middleground isn't campy. I said it's not as campy as LC and Hills, which isn't saying much. The problem is the middle obstructions split the map into discrete chunks which encourage people to lurk on one half and spam the other.

I have had experiences on fallout ranging from bad to alright, but I'll try to look at it with an open mind.

[Kuja900]

Ive had nothing but fun times on Fallout. Especially in 5v5 it actually promotes mobility over the normal 2 whale setup which I found quite unique.

[tyr]

Originally Posted by nesnl

And I think we can all agree that it's time to remove the original ball_mayhem from the game and replace it with ball_mayhem2. Ball_mayhem is just annoying with its choke points and its traversable passageway up top which in the end make it not fun to play and often results in games with everyone getting 100+ kills. Rally for mayhem2!!!

I am bumping this thread only for this.
Mayhem2 is a top class ball map, probably the best currently existing whereas mayhem is just ... bad.
People are only trying to get through that top path and of course, die horribly because it's so predictable and easily defendable so it creates long and boring games.

Please replace ball_mayhem with ball_mayhem2

[Evan20000]

Originally Posted by tyr

I am bumping this thread only for this.
Mayhem2 is a top class ball map, probably the best currently existing whereas mayhem is just ... bad.
People are only trying to get through that top path and of course, die horribly because it's so predictable and easily defendable so it creates long and boring games.

Please replace ball_mayhem with ball_mayhem2

This. Seriously. Do it.

[mutra]

Fallout is a very cool map!

It is one of my favorites.