{ball}

[darknietzsche]

Tomorrow is the last day I will not be available on Sundays. See you guys next week.

[blln4lyf]

Originally Posted by darknietzsche

Tomorrow is the last day I will not be available on Sundays. See you guys next week.

Awesome, see you then.

[Carlos98]

for DVD

[XX1]

..........
homemade or get the **** out

[REDDRAGON]

Originally Posted by XX1

..........
homemade or get the **** out

called the **** out

[Carlos98]

Originally Posted by XX1

..........
homemade or get the **** out

I'll make sure to post a peanut butter and jelly soup next time.

[XX1]

Originally Posted by Carlos98

I'll make sure to post a peanut butter and jelly soup next time.

go for it

Give the Sammich thread a read m8

[Mr Nice]

let the experts analyze this one

[darknietzsche]

Sorry guys, won't be there today. Friend got last minute Duke vs NC State tickets for today, and the game just happens to be at 1:30EST, sorry for the incredibly late notice. May make it back for the 2nd round if it is a blow out.

[XX1]

Good job today guys. I'm glad we turned it around against Vlix compared to last week.

With that said, a few of us should log in and play a little during the week so we aren't rusty on game day. It's mostly:

Holly 'empty promises' wood.
balln
carlos

pls n ty

So... I just said that we should play a bit during the week, but it looks like I may not be able to play Altitude during the week (Mon - Fri) with my schedule. If US ladder happens to be going on after 7 PM Pacific Time I can play then. I'm still free weekends so I will still be there on Sunday.
F
It's kinda lame it has to be like this but as much fun Alti is, I do need to feed myself..


oh yeah DVD I can make that list if you really want me to

[Carlos98]

Originally Posted by XX1

Good job today guys. I'm glad we turned it around against Vlix compared to last week.

With that said, a few of us should log in and play a little during the week so we aren't rusty on game day. It's mostly:

Holly 'empty promises' wood.
balln
carlos

Threevenge and DVD take note, this is how you execute a mutiny.

[Carlos98]

Looks like I won't be able to make today; I need to go into work, sorry guys.

Also I'm on vacation next weekend, so I'll be unavailable then too.

GL guys!

[XX1]

Good job today guys

[Fartface]

wow u guys are so cool. u stacked a team so well that you can not only beat other teams with 6 loops but also make them feel bad about themselves

And seriously there's little enough incentive for new teams to join the SL scene without you guys dicking it up. Almost none of the teams that enter SL do so with any pretension of being able to win (thanks to team stacking like yours). If you want to keep on stomping teams in future SLs you'd probably do best not to also rub it in their faces by being total asswipes. Not that you guys are the kind of people who probably care what I think but if anyone on AK, zrog, volare etc see this please know most of us appreciate the time you put into showing up even to usually lose.

If you want SL to go the way of APL keep doing what ur doing

[Hollywood]

Originally Posted by Fartface

wow u guys are so cool. u stacked a team so well that you can not only beat other teams with 6 loops but also make them feel bad about themselves

And seriously there's little enough incentive for new teams to join the SL scene without you guys dicking it up. Almost none of the teams that enter SL do so with any pretension of being able to win (thanks to team stacking like yours). If you want to keep on stomping teams in future SLs you'd probably do best not to also rub it in their faces by being total asswipes. Not that you guys are the kind of people who probably care what I think but if anyone on AK, zrog, volare etc see this please know most of us appreciate the time you put into showing up even to usually lose.

If you want SL to go the way of APL keep doing what ur doing

Do you need a hug?

Stack a team? We only get 6-7 online each week. Sometimes not enough to play some seasons, as has happened in the past. Other teams stack more than 12-15 players at a time while we crawl around on the ground till we find someone. The team management skills are shown with competitive spots that each member of the team has to work for, and a loyal environment. Not to mention at one point we actually taught our own members, something none of the other teams do. Most of the people on our team have been with us for a very long time now. Were a family, that only enjoys playing together, and would have quit the game if that had not been the case. It is not {ball}s fault that people leave other teams or quit the game.

I understand that people like to treat {ball} as the enemy. We treat every new team with respect until they repeatedly disrespect us as {AK} have done so and [BBQ] have done for years in the past but have seem to have forgotten the void forum posts. You seem to take things out of context when I hear from you, so yes a number of other things have happened from AK members in game that you obviously don't know about and has nothing to do with you. Just so you know we give advice to any of the teams when asked so growth and stability of the league is more important for us than it is for you as were looking to play for at least Sky League 20.

Originally Posted by tgleaf

"Fab 5" (1-4): five loopies. Designate one loopy for defense and the rest for offense. Although loopies dominate scoring in ball matches, this is not the most powerful formation to use, as it leaves the goal vulnerable.

That loopy comp is real and were thinking of running it. You should learn to ignore XX2s bad manners, he spends most of his time trolling his own teammates so it's nothing new here.

Originally Posted by JWhatever

Vlix 2-0 Epic
Vlix 2-0 Ball

-J

Or something like this? Fortunately he changed it, but you think that's sportsman like?

[Fartface]

It's not so much the fact that you stack your team as that you make use of that to humiliate and anger other teams.

Put yourself in the shoes of anyone on AK, zrog, volare, etc. Would you show up every week even on days when you have statistically 0% chance of winning? I know I wouldn't. Losing is frustrating. That's one of my weaknesses and why I don't tend to make clans or join bad ones. So how about we support the people who don't have that weakness instead of humiliating them. Evidently from >.<'s quit, the lack of "gg"s, and wicksman's indignance that is exactly what you were doing.

As for your claim that the loopy comp is real, hell maybe you can win SL with 6 loopies, you have a pretty damn nice team, but don't pretend like it's gonna make it easier than a meta comp.

I'm not sure what your point is with J but he's a man of very few words, let alone offensive ones

And yes hugs are always welcome

[Oyster]

How has AK repeatedly disrespected ball?

In the few clan games I've participated in, it's always been 'gg' at the end from everyone...?

[Oyster]

The fact that you ran 6 loopies in a SL match doesn't offend me at all, but the grammar in that last sentence made my eyes spin T_T

Let's just move past this, shall we?

[Carlos98]

Uhh in light of mod activity I should have even more of a reason to edit this, but I'm busy with work, tired, lazy, and less motivated, so I'm just reposting what I originally posted:

I AM GUESSING WE PLAYED A 6V5 TROLL GAME? WAS IT FUN GUYS? DID YOU HAVE A LOT OF FUN? IT LOOKED LIKE A LOT OF FUN!

I’M BEING SARCASTIC.

I GUESS MY BAD AS A CAPTAIN FOR NOT SHOWING UP FOR “AK WEEK". TURNS OUT {BALL} TURNS INTO ****-TIER DRAMA EVERY TIME I AM ABSENT AND WE PLAY THEM. I SHOULD HAVE EXPECTED IT, SORRY. I’M REALLY REALLY SORRY. CAN YOU TELL HOW SORRY I AM?

YEA I KNOW OUR HISTORY FROM LAST SEASON WITH AK. DID YOU REMEMBER THAT STEMMED FROM SOMETHING THAT WAS ACTUALLY OUR FAULT? DID YOU REMEMBER THEY FAILED TO FIELD ENOUGH PLAYERS FOR THE PLAYOFFS? THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN ENOUGH TO HEAL ANY CHILDISH WOUNDS. AK PISSED US OFF ONCE BY EXECUTING A DECISION FROM A VALID RULE. I WOULDN’T CALL IT DISRESPECT AND CERTAINLY NOT TWICE. ALSO IF WE GAVE A DICK ABOUT GAME QUALITY WE WOULD HAVE PLAYED A 5V5.

WITHOUT FURTHER ADO, I’LL PUBLICLY POST OUR LINEUP CHANGES FOR NEXT WEEK:
Carlos - BENCHED for not showing up to AK week
XX2 - BENCHED trolling too much He is a minor and not liable for his actions
XX2 - UNBENCHED sweet MS Paint collage skills
{ball} - BENCHED for poor parenting
radium - UNBENCHED for DVD’s sick profile pick
balln - BENCHED terrible performance at loopy
fart - BENCHED for thinking we stack
fart - UNBENCHED for bringing up other valid points that force a needed discussion
Holly - BENCHED CHECK YO SELF
Oyster - UNBENCHED for making the most reasonable posts in this discussion
REDDRAGON - BENCHED wowwwww
SSD - BENCHED don’t think I don’t see what you are up to in that parser thread
Leggo - UNBENCHED for consistently relevant GIFs
Threevenge - BENCHED where are the spreadsheets?
DuCKy - BENCHED get that awkward post out of my clan thread. This isn’t AH

Fart, we don’t stack our team anymore than a team should. We try and recruit good people to build a solid team around a good foundation; which is how SL has always been played out between the top teams and the talent pool. Despite the fact that we play with ball’n on our team, we do have standards. So logically when most of our members barely show up every other week, we need a full roster with players of similar skill levels to be consistent.

I’ve been mulling this stuff over in my head for a time, and this is a fair enough catalyst to write it out. So real talk time:

I don’t think the pool of competitive players is able to sustain numerous (3 or more) teams having full competitive rosters anymore. It definitely did in the past (SL6 and 7 had nearly double the number of teams of SL11), but it appears to be no longer. Even within {ball} ranks, our output is at a laughable fraction of what it was in seasons past. “rusty” would be a good word to describe a good chunk of our own players. If SL11 goes on at the current pace, {ball} would be poised to go uncontested all the way through the championship. This would be in my eyes most unsatisfactory. The only reason I play this game is for competitive high level games, which this season has not delivered on. So what do we have when the top team isn’t even being actively challenged to be their best? We have a talent distribution problem. But when this roster wouldn’t have been a problem 5 seasons ago, we have an even bigger problem.

I think we are at a fork in the roads with where the community should take SkyLeague. In my 8 seasons of SL, this tournament has always been the pinnacle of competition in the ball community. Its about the players executing at the top of their game with captains strategizing at the top of theirs to determine who is the best. Not some pub-level nonsense; the best that can be delivered. I think I speak for all of {ball} when I say we are on board with that viewpoint (thats why we make fun of the underachieving troll teams, thats why we get upset about how last regular season played out with the seedings, and the playoff format the season before). So there are two options, drop that outlook and allow SL to become a more casual tournament, or keep that viewpoint and help cultivate that competitive spirit. I have no interest in a more casual tournament, so I’d just retire if that becomes the consensus.

So what do we do here? Should {ball} recruit a few more people and then split into 2? Should some other teams merge? Obviously some talent needs to be shifted around, but there might be other things too. I’d love to see a discussion on this.

Perhaps I am a clueless old-timer looking through rose-tinted glasses. Perhaps I should just shut-up, retire, and leave you kids to figure this out. Perhaps this isn’t possible to figure out (ded game?). But I wanted to give it an honest shake in the ol' melon before I decide to hang the cleats up.

TL;DRs:
* Sorry AK.
* I benched a ton of people both in and not in {ball}.
* I don’t want to see SL become APL.

[Fartface]

I agree with most of what you're saying.

Just one point where I really, really don't: "that's why we make fun of the underachieving troll teams."

I reject the notion that any teams are "troll" or "underachieving." I guess the closest to a troll team would be a FRO or bombercakes style thing, but those were really more for the members to just have a good time, so I wouldn't call it trolling. Certainly no recent ball teams match this description.

Do you think AK is underachieving because it doesn't recruit good enough players to win SL? Let me ask another question -- how many members of {ball} do you think would have joined AK this season if Tjerki had even bothered asking? (props to Dozer for actually doing this)

Now it's true, {ball} isn't stacking a team in the traditional sense, or even intentionally (for the most part). In fairness you did take an SL-winning team and added Walt to it in a season with fewer active players (many other good players are playing for the first time with {ball} too, like DN and meta, but I acknowledge that those players were on your roster last SL as inactives). But I do understand that most of your squad has been on the roster for a very long time and has worked hard to reach the top.

That being said, there is little doubt in my mind that, barring some drastic issues in turnout on your team, you can complete the season undefeated. Given that the ball community is waning (thankfully more slowly than tbd did), I only see 2 scenarios to make SL actually competitive again:

1) Elite players who aren't on {ball} band together next SL to form a clan of similar skill, making a 2-clan competition and leaving any other clans worse off, or
2) Some {ball} players may have to lock up their trophy case and try something new.

I understand that option 2 will make peak SL skill level a little lower. But like you said, there's not much fun in easy wins.

Anyway, just food for thought. I don't begrudge you for having a good team because I agree that you didn't really "stack" it per se. Nevertheless treatment of worse teams as "underachieving troll clans" is something I think is unhealthy for SL.


Edit: Been thinking of it also as a comparison to TBD. With TBD as the community waned the clans tended toward option (1) above, with the main contenders being qq/IL and sammich (I personally was guilty of being on one of those teams), with KLF trailing a bit behind. That only lasted a couple seasons thanks to the willingness of some clans like FRO to play a bit less seriously. Of course, tbd was also bit harder to keep alive because of compounding balance issues.

Personally I think option (2) is a better way of doing things. Sure it degrades top skill a bit, but it keeps everyone invested and thus keeps the community from shrinking too fast. This is also a good reason to try things like a Draft Tournament (which implements option (2) naturally), which unfortunately has encountered many logistical obstacles in the past, but maybe we could give it another shot.

[Carlos98]

Originally Posted by Fartface

Just one point where I really, really don't: "that's why we make fun of the underachieving troll teams."

I reject the notion that any teams are "troll" or "underachieving." I guess the closest to a troll team would be a FRO or bombercakes style thing, but those were really more for the members to just have a good time, so I wouldn't call it trolling. Certainly no recent ball teams match this description.

Do you think AK is underachieving because it doesn't recruit good enough players to win SL? Let me ask another question -- how many members of {ball} do you think would have joined AK this season if Tjerki had even bothered asking? (props to Dozer for actually doing this)

Thanks for responding fart. I'll give your post a more dignified response when I have a more time, but I want to clarify this immediately:

I do not consider AK to be trolls. I am unhappy with how we treated them on Sunday.

I was specifically referring to those extraordinarily talented teams in previous SLs that just played for fun. Ones that clearly could have yielded better results and provided a greater challenge for other teams. I am not trying to call them out now or say they are wrong for choosing that path (pure fun and allowing all their players equal playtime), but their goals were in direct opposition of the goals {ball} has pursued.

-Carlos

[blln4lyf]

First time I've been on the forums since last Sunday…

I take 100% blame for the actions that played out; I could have easily prevented all of this, and should have. While a lot of this is being blown out of proportion, disrespect did occur; we should have played our normal lineup.

Carlos’:
It was not a 6v5 game, the screenshot just made it look that way (>.< left right after the game). AK was upset about us playing them 6v6 with all loopies. I agree about AK, {ball} was upset when AK did not allow a rescrim last season but the truth is that is completely their right and within the rules, and I seriously doubt they did it to disrespect.

Fart:
I appreciate all teams for competing in SL, and disrespecting any of them is an injustice and I apologize for that. Losing is not fun and as much as it may seem otherwise, I do appreciate teams for showing and playing when they don’t hold much of a chance.

In regards to the AK game, the injustice that took place had to do with the 6 loopy line up. I don’t recall the exact chat after the game, but I do know for a fact I said gg, as I always do, and I believe >.<’s quit (after the game ended) and wickman’s comments had to do with the lineup and nothing else.

General:
In regards to the 6 loopy line up, this is the root of the disrespect that occurred. While using a so called "joke" lineup is disrespectful it seriously may be a viable lineup, and while using it made clearly left AK feeling disrespected, it was something I have wanted to test for a while. That being said, testing it in a SL game was not the right time or place. Playing devil’s advocate, if we did it in the correct setting of a scrim and it was successful and proceeded to bring it to SL we likely still would of left the team we used it against feeling disrespected.

In regards to stacking our team, that is a farce. That has never been our goal and is not what we have done. The majority of our team has been with us for a while, while uncertainty in the offseason presented questions regarding whom would be leaving/not playing competitively anymore. We ended up recruiting 2 people, Walt and DN, while having questions regarding many individuals participation in SL, including Carlo’s.

In regards to competition, while this discussion is clearly heading this way, I haven’t given this as much thought as the rest of this discussion yet since I wanted to address the matter that occurred with AK first. That being said, if this discussion continues, I’ll gladly engage them, but here are my quick thoughts:

I want there to be competition at the top. In regards to diluting the talents, I believe there will never be more than 3 top teams in the current format as there were never more than 3 even when altitude was at its strongest. I also fully believe there can still be 3 top teams.

IMO: vlix still is one, and would/still might give {ball} a serious run for its money had people not gone inactive, which I had no knowledge of until last Sunday. BBQ’s “fall” had more to do with some of their core players leaving for other clans. While {ball} won last SL, don't forget the fact that vlix and BBQ were EXTREMELY competitive. The moves made by {ball} were not the main reasons for the disparity at this point; it had more to do with what happened with vlix and BBQ.

In regards to splitting {ball} into 2 clans, we get 6-8 members to show a week, numbers alone prove that to be impossible in the current structure of our team. In regards with leveling the playing field, there are many ways that can occur and there is no one right answer. I still believe vlix and BBQ can be strong enough to compete at a high level with {ball}, and would hate to uproot {ball} when I don’t deem it necessary.

[Fartface]

Yeah splitting {ball} into 2 teams would never work and is not something I ever suggested. What I was saying is maybe next season just a few people on {ball} should disperse to other teams, and you can replace them with less skilled players, as all the other clans have had to do over the last couple seasons. That way experience is a little more evenly dispersed, some less skilled players get the chance to join viable teams and really have their effort pay off, and everyone has a bit more fun (ideally).

I'm glad to see that you guys don't seem to harbor any permanent disrespect for AK, though I confess I feel a bit silly as none of them are actually speaking up for themselves here (except Ducky's posts which had so many tiers of sarcasm that I couldn't even understand what his point was). Probably most of them haven't even seen this thread but hopefully this just isn't a big deal for the majority of them.

[stevemp12]

I can't speak for everyone, but I wasn't offended - it gave us the best chance to win! Thanks to all the ballers who have apologized for any perceived disrespect.

[blln4lyf]

Originally Posted by Fartface

Yeah splitting {ball} into 2 teams would never work and is not something I ever suggested. What I was saying is maybe next season just a few people on {ball} should disperse to other teams, and you can replace them with less skilled players, as all the other clans have had to do over the last couple seasons. That way experience is a little more evenly dispersed, some less skilled players get the chance to join viable teams and really have their effort pay off, and everyone has a bit more fun (ideally).

I'm glad to see that you guys don't seem to harbor any permanent disrespect for AK, though I confess I feel a bit silly as none of them are actually speaking up for themselves here (except Ducky's posts which had so many tiers of sarcasm that I couldn't even understand what his point was). Probably most of them haven't even seen this thread but hopefully this just isn't a big deal for the majority of them.

My thoughts are you guys can still compete without dispersing of ball. We are not so stacked that no one can match us. People come and go over the seasons, but I will not boot anyone who has given their all to ball. That being said, if no one was to leave and we still had the numbers, I surely wouldn't look to add any additional members (unless people went inactive). I'd also be open to a draft season but it almost never works out as intended. Keep in mind I still fully believe clans can compete with ball, and believe telling us to disperse is the easy way out. That being said I also don't want to easily win and I want competion, but that can be had without us weakening our forces.

[Knipchip]

Feeling disrespected and subsequently the desire to openly bring it forward via chat is probably the most effeminate course of action in this situation.

Games felt less difficult with 6 loopy. New meta? Or does it only prove the questionable state of the mental state of the members of the opposing team? It's not uncommon among less than great players. In light of that, we may well have predicted that the concerning teams would run amok in the face of certain plane setups, giving us the best chance of winning. Refraining from doing so would mean refraining from playing our best. So in that regard, playing anything but "disrespectful" setups implied playing a disrespectful setup. Thus, could mere ignorance be the gist here?

On a serious note, let's refrain from hindsight bias. Grow up, respect is something you earn.

[Clapon]

YO Bombercakez was real as **** alright?

[Wicksman]

Actually unaware of this entire post until told by Ducky yesterday, don't really have anything to add to what has already been posted. Just in case people thought (or cared) I was avoiding the situation.

Originally Posted by Knipchip

On a serious note, let's refrain from hindsight bias. Grow up, respect is something you earn.

Surely you see the irony of this? I will retract anything I've ever said on the matter if the SL final is played with 6 loopies.

[Knipchip]

Originally Posted by Wicksman

Surely you see the irony of this? I will retract anything I've ever said on the matter if the SL final is played with 6 loopies.

I'm sure you're very much biased to see it. The hurt person must lower the perceived value of the hurting factor, eh? The difference is that it doesn't make a difference in my case.

You got all fazed in the face of this composition. To be honest, playing against an overwhelming team ought to be a lot more fun. You were in a position of privilege, but your childish petulance blinded you to this notion. Your unfulfilling life caused you to feel and come across all butthurt. What a shame you are.

[Demuyt]

Originally Posted by Knipchip

You were in a position of privilege, but your childish petulance blinded you to this notion.

-Charles Dickens

[Mr Nice]

Golden rule is golden

[GGQ]

The level of this discussion was elevated for all of 5 posts, but we're quickly spiraling downward again. This is Altitude's official forum and there are rules here. Keep it civil, folks.

[leggomyeggo]

Originally Posted by Demuyt

-Charles Dickens

"'You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky' -MiCHAEL SCOTT"
-LeggoMyEggo

[Clapon]

Originally Posted by leggomyeggo

"'You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky' -MiCHAEL SCOTT"
-LeggoMyEggo

-Clapon

my names to short

[Fartface]

Originally Posted by GGQ

The level of this discussion was elevated for all of 5 posts, but we're quickly spiraling downward again.

And not even that, because obviously

Originally Posted by blln4lyf

I appreciate all teams for competing in SL, and disrespecting any of them is an injustice and I apologize for that.

was as much of a farce as the argument that they're using a 6-loopy setup for any purpose other than disrespect. Anyway this'll be my last post because obviously there are just some people who aren't ready for sincere discussion

[ObeighsNo0ne]

Woah seems I missed a bunch haha. Anywho Ballers sorry for not being able to play last 2 weeks, was in Colorado flying down mountains. I'll be on this week for sure. See ya in the skies

[blln4lyf]

Originally Posted by Fartface

And not even that, because obviously was as much of a farce as the argument that they're using a 6-loopy setup for any purpose other than disrespect. Anyway this'll be my last post because obviously there are just some people who aren't ready for sincere discussion

Fart, I kindly request anymore issues you have on the matter you bring it up with me via PM or online chat and not here. You have your beliefs but you are unequivocally wrong in saying we weren't trying to compete and I'd rather you keep it away from this thread.

[Goose]

GG's today {ball}ers, that was quite an impressive performance you guys put on out there! shout out to STORMFATHER who was the MVP in terms of defecating on our clan!

Hope to see you guys again in the championship round!!!

[blln4lyf]

Team: It looks like vlix wants to postpone our game to next week as well. So we are off this week. Feel free to show and try to get scrims going or whatnot.

[blln4lyf]

Ballers, vlix requested we move up the time for our match this upcoming weekend..would you guys be able to show earlier for our game with vlix next Sunday? Maybe 12:30 PM Eastern Time? Please try to let me know either on here or PM or in the game.