Bouncy Server Issues

[NastyManatee]

I'm surprised to not see more threads about it, but between blinding lag and the new fixation on bouncy (read skill devoid) servers, this game is degenerating into chaos.

I mean, the only official server without bouncy walls is no max ping, where are competitive players supposed to play?

I understand that the game launched on steam, but I fail to see how bouncy servers make the game more enjoyable to anyone. When I started playing this game, I got hooked because of the skill curve, not how easy it was to fly a plane and not crash. Some reviews are purporting the game as skill-less and chaotic, and I have a hard time imagining that many new players don't view the game from the same perspective when there is almost no risk involved in playing in most servers. There are no such thing as skilled maneuvers in bouncy servers, you just hit whatever walls you want and fly away, and without a need for skill, the game is just spam.

Besides, remember all those long months that went into game balancing? Well, it is kind of all for naught when you just robbed explodets of their primary damage source and enabled entirely new attack strategies (read lying on the ground and firing at anything that flies by) that alter the survivability and lethality of all planes.

Furthermore, while this is a slight digression, I think it's agreeable that 200+ ping makes a plane impossible to defend against. I fail to see why 400 ping limit servers exist at all if their intent is to keep players who degrade play quality in specific servers. With 400 max ping, a server can still be filled with game-crippling lag. 200 max ping and no max ping, there need not be other divisions for servers (unless a few 150 or 100 max ping servers get sprinkled in, feel free to do that).

Ultimately, my suggestion is thus: Make level cap servers from 1 to 50 with bouncy walls for new players, and keep all other official servers hard walled, half max ping 200 and half no max ping. If level 60s want to play bouncy, they have the fun servers, and you could even keep one server bouncy (just one, for the love of god, just one) for all levels in case people just want to screw around. If this is too much to ask, please at least make official 2 (ping limit 200 if I'm not mistaken) not bouncy so there is some respite from total chaos.

The honest truth is that most good players feel betrayed by these changes, and you are scaring good players away from your game by promoting spam and slop and forcing people who try to escape this into extreme lag. Before the changes, I could play altitude for hours, now 15 or 30 minutes is about all I can handle before frustration inspires me to play something else.

If you're okay with turning the game entirely casual and building it around new players, that's fine. You're just not gonna have a lot of "competitive play" to advertise your game with if you keep shafting the competitive players...

If you agree, make your own post. Problems don't get fixed unless they are widely identified as problems.

[Vi*]

Originally Posted by NastyManatee

I mean, the only official server without bouncy walls is no max ping, where are competitive players supposed to play?

Dude. Seriously, the competitive players are in New England Deathmatch, or Captain's Games. There are plenty of servers with hard walls and 200 ping limit (all the New England servers, for example, don't I say this enough?).

Bouncy walls are better for noobs. They'll get competitive eventually. In the meantime, it's not difficult to get a more competitive game going in, for example, New England TBD. I see that you're too lazy to try and get an empty server started, but really, if you have a couple of friends on that you can call in it's not that hard.

[GGQ]

When I started playing this game, I got hooked because of the skill curve, not how easy it was to fly a plane and not crash.

Ultimately, my suggestion is thus: Make level cap servers from 1 to 50 with bouncy walls for new players, and keep all other official servers hard walled

I do agree with this, and I think the abundance of bouncy servers now available is way overboard.

But at the same time, I agree with Vi that I haven't had any trouble starting a good game on a hardwall server when I want one, so the problem (that I definitely agree exists) may not be as crippling as you suggest.

[Kuja900]

Originally Posted by Vi*

Dude. Seriously, the competitive players are in New England Deathmatch, or Captain's Games. There are plenty of servers with hard walls and 200 ping limit (all the New England servers, for example, don't I say this enough?).

Bouncy walls are better for noobs. They'll get competitive eventually. In the meantime, it's not difficult to get a more competitive game going in, for example, New England TBD. I see that you're too lazy to try and get an empty server started, but really, if you have a couple of friends on that you can call in it's not that hard.

It is more difficult to get a non-bouncy wall game than you think. Check out this pic I took last night, not one server with people in it that wasnt bouncy. We shouldn't have to organize ourselves to play even one game without bouncy walls.

[Karl]

As of this moment there are 30 hardwall servers and 70 bouncy. Seeing as the majority of servers are run by the community I'm going to have to say that's what's popular.

Altitude is still the Altitude it's always been, we simply added a fun mode (vs competitive). Altitude had the competitive gaming mode, it desperately needed the "I just want to have fun" mode.

By giving new users a place to master the controls you will soon have a massive influx of players into the competitive servers and eventually the Altitude pro league.

Thanks for the input as we take it very seriously.

[nesnl]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think if any of the Official Servers (ie #1-#3) are bouncy it is by mistake. I believe that Lamster said it was some update error that caused those servers to revert to bouncy mode. So if those servers are still bouncy it definitely needs to be put to hard walled as there is absolutely no reason to have those servers in bouncy mode.

Also, I posted about this before, but I feel it has taken on a whole new importance: there needs to be some indication of whether a server is on bouncy or hard walled mode. I hate joining a server and then realizing it's bouncy mode when I didn't think it was going to be. Maybe make a new column in the server list that just says either "HARD" or "SOFT" next to the server or something.

[NastyManatee]

Thank you Kuja for being a realist.

And Vi, I realize the need to advertise your servers, and that when people are on New England the matches are typically quite good, but the fact of the matter is that people play the official servers first and foremost, and the game should have "official" support of competitive and casual play, not just casual play. I mean, sitting by myself in Captain's or a New England server isn't exactly what I have in mind when I decide to play altitude, and this is often the situation I'd be left in these days if I followed your solution.

And I realize that I could make my own server, but the facts of life are that people concentrate around the official servers, and it is important that they are well structured to support diverse and satisfying gameplay. I was originally all for measures to ease in new steam players, but the word overboard comes to mind when viewing the current situation.

[GGQ]

Can we call bouncy servers 'casual' instead of 'fun'? Because, as I said earlier, the challenge of the hard walls was what made it fun for me when I was a noob.

[nobodyhome]

quick question: is the default setting of servers still set to bouncy walls? if it is not, it should be. "hard" walls should really be called "normal" walls as that is the setting most appropriate to skilled play. likewise, bouncy walls should be called "easy" mode =\

[eth]

Great, so hardwalls is pretty much only for leagues/captains now? You DO realize that there are people out there not necessarily playing in leagues who still enjoy actually having to fly their plane?

You do not have to hold the hands of every ****ing noob. Everyone up until this bouncy mode learned to fly with walls that actually HURT you if you crashed into them(WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT?), or they had rubber hull - which is now completely obsolete, since crashing is no big deal anymore. Seriously, wasn't it enough with rubber hull to ease the learning curve?

I guess not.


(reading on)

e1: completely agree with GGQ lol, this fun vs competitive is bull****. I mean seriously, is that where you have to divide? Anything that takes the slightest amount of skill goes into the COMPETITIVE bin, anything else is FUN. Great, let's do a ****ing 100vs100 bouncy football map, now that would be fun! And let's make rubber hull automatically press F+D for you without energy cost, more FUN! LETS HAVE FUN GUYS!

I'm angry, no offense meant really.

e2: I agree so bad with manatee on the point of making 1-50 servers bouncy, and then make the others hardwalls. If you really meant this as holding the hands of noobs, then this would seem ideal eh? Unless you just want to make the game take less skill - and if you want to move in that direction that's fine too. You already have my 20 bucks.

[NastyManatee]

Originally Posted by nesnl

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think if any of the Official Servers (ie #1-#3) are bouncy it is by mistake. I believe that Lamster said it was some update error that caused those servers to revert to bouncy mode. So if those servers are still bouncy it definitely needs to be put to hard walled as there is absolutely no reason to have those servers in bouncy mode.

It looks like the official servers are now all set back to hard walled, so that remedies most of the problems I was having with recent changes. I suppose if people want to populate the numerous bouncy servers instead of official ones, that choice is theirs. Hopefully, in time, they will migrate to the hard wall servers, though I'm still not excited about the idea of making a relatively skill-less version of the game the norm in the meantime.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by nesnl

Also, I posted about this before, but I feel it has taken on a whole new importance: there needs to be some indication of whether a server is on bouncy or hard walled mode. I hate joining a server and then realizing it's bouncy mode when I didn't think it was going to be. Maybe make a new column in the server list that just says either "HARD" or "SOFT" next to the server or something.

There is a server filter available to filter off softwall servers from your server list.

[GGQ]

I agree, make sure it's clear that bouncy walls has 'easy mode' connotations, and that hard walls has 'this is the real game' connotations. Because it's true. That way noobs can feel ok about playing bouncy walls (they're noobs, who's gonna blame them for playing easy mode?), but they know that eventually they are supposed to play hard walls (which they are supposed to... right Karlamster?)

edit- it's done this way in the immensely popular beta for HoN; games where you get bonus exp/money are called 'easy mode' and games without that crutch are just normal games. noobs can play easy mode to get used to the game, but they know that they are expected to play normal games eventually

[Loli.ta]

From the point from where I'm standing, I don't think we'll get any newer serious teams from the flock (fLb / ACE survival long). With the amount of bouncy servers, that is what people will play, I wouldn't see them moving into hard walls. I think the compet scene seems to be dying, in a sense. From my stand point.

[Sarah Palin]

People will choose whatever server they want to play on, as long as the official and tourney servers are hard-walled I have no prob with it. Official bouncy servers was a bug which the devs fixed as soon as they could. There is no game mode that people are "supposed" to spend most of their time on, there are many game modes and people choose what's FUN FOR THEM. Tourneys may center around 5v5 hard-wall TBD on a small rotation of maps, but that doesn't mean this is the only "serious" way to play Alti.

[Ferret]

Originally Posted by Karl

Altitude is still the Altitude it's always been, we simply added a fun mode (vs competitive). Altitude had the competitive gaming mode, it desperately needed the "I just want to have fun" mode.

By giving new users a place to master the controls you will soon have a massive influx of players into the competitive servers and eventually the Altitude pro league.

For the past few days I've barely been able to play "altitude as it's always been," usually for spurts of a few minutes with either a server of 5 people or else everyone pinging 400. I wouldn't call this recent revolution "fun," fun is what came before this. The game I bought does not currently exist for me.

I get it, people want to learn with a forgiving environment where walls and terrains aren't deadly if they don't fly perfectly. There should be a perk for that. Making it the server default is a bad choice because I know when I get games I immediately want to play the default options because I assume it's what the makers intend. But you're vastly overestimating people if you think they'll "move on from bouncy to a more competitive, harder, skill requiring environment once they've learned." You've essentially introduced Big Game Hunters to the masses of your game "balanced by professional Starcraft players."

I don't think most new players even know about the options or what they're choosing; I didn't know there was a filter between bouncy and hard until last night, and I wasn't sure it worked when "has players, hard walls" filtered out every server.

[ORYLY]

Originally Posted by Karl

There is a server filter available to filter off softwall servers from your server list.

But when you have a friend on the server, it's placed in the friends and favorites section. Instead of the filtered section.

[nobodyhome]

Originally Posted by Karl

There is a server filter available to filter off softwall servers from your server list.

Quit babying us, I'm certain that Maimer of all people is already aware of this filter. The problem is that when one of our friends joins a bouncy server, that server automatically bypasses our filter and goes under the "favorites and friends list" and it becomes impossible to discern whether the server is bouncy or not ahead of time (unless of course it's clearly indicated on the server name. not always the case).

[Kuja900]

I think a name change of the servers may be effective. New players are inclined to believe that bouncy walls are the norm and not "easy mode". Adding some easy mode connotation to the title and not calling hard walls something daunting like "hardcore" may help balance out the servers.

[Evan20000]

I agree we need more hardwall servers. I was talking to some kids who just got the game in a bouncy server. They said something like "Hardcore mode is too hard". Keep in mind they were level 40. O_o I think they need to be weened into hardwall like the rest of us. I remember a moth or so ago there was a server with insta kill walls (That was shut down due to explodets being OP...). It was fun while it lasted, but at this point I'm probably just rambling on.

tl;dr version: +1 Manatee. The only way to win at bouncy is to autojoin official 3.

Also, if they can't fly well, they should use rubber haul. I mean, that's what it's there for.

[Tosconi]

I wouldn't really say, that it's the majority of players choses the bouncy walls. We casual players are pretty much predetermined by the server demand.

Although official servers got back to the hard wall default option, I hardly see any of the official servers to be played, except for the 3rd one (I think it's most probably due to it's 400 max ping option). I love New England's servers for not being bouncy, but since I'm from Europe - my casual ping is on the american servers about 150, which means...I still can play on a max200 ping server....but if anything happens with my internet connection for any short period of time (like my mail agent receives new emails - i get kicked). I also can not play on the capts. server, due to not know the password... (guys I've been playing this since may, I'm a decent players who doesn't camp or through bombs on opponents, I try to struggle and I really love competitive games - if any of you could invite me on the capts. server - I would be really very grateful).

by my first argument about predeterminance of players I meant, that all of the older players are almost obliged to go to the bouncy servers - just because - official 3 is full, noone on new england, proleague's being used by 2 teams...and there's nothing left actually. I go to a server where I have mates played and they're there just due to the same reason...no other place to go.

Still as the official servers, new england's servers are also hardly always played...it's rather an exception, than a rule - when there're needed 10 ppl there.

I know it's about the money and the server holders who decide...but for instance all of the european servers have bouncy walls. Is there a possibility to limit certain amount of servers to be bouncy. Let's say when 50% of the servers are bouncy, server holders are obliged to make the new one hard. The point is - since the steam release, there've actually pretty many new servers appeared out there - but all of them, all without an exception are bouncy.

[Flyngbanana]

Hopefully the problem will be slightly resolved due to the official servers reverting to hard walls.

Is there a way to get rid of the friends playing on the server automatically makes it top of the list despite of any filters you have applied? Its probably one of the least important things to me.

[nobodyhome]

Certainly I can see why you ever implemented bouncy mode in the first place. There must've been a lot of feedback that you guys received prior to the launch where some players were turned off from playing because this game was too hard because they kept crashing into the walls.

But isn't rubber hull enough for the newbs to get used to flying? The point is to get them accustomed to flying, and when they get better perks, they'll realize that they are using an inferior choice meant for newer players and then move on. Bouncing off of the walls is only "fun" as long as you can't do it any other way without dying--after you get skilled enough to fly without hitting walls, the only thing that bouncy walls does for you is to frustrate you when you see newbs flopping off the floor everywhere.

And I can also see that it would be difficult for you guys to remove this feature since you already put it in and it seems like people are enjoying it. But the amount of handicap that bouncy walls puts in is HUGE, you can literally hit the walls 25+ times without dying, which makes hitting the walls COMPLETELY inconsequential. How are newbs ever going to learn to fly right if they never get punished for hitting the walls? The least you can do is to make it so that bouncy walls hurts you more, keeping it easier than the hard walls but not completely nullifying the effect that a wall has.

[nesnl]

I know people are angry, but at least give it a little time as they just released on Steam. I am having the same problems everyone else is having, I log on and every game that is being played is on bouncy walls, which feels very lame, but at the same time I want to see the game do well and continue to do well into the future. If the way that Lamster / Karl feel is best to bring people into the game is through bouncy servers then let them do it and we can deal with the issues later when the player base is larger.

Karl, as for your comment regarding the server filter, I am fully aware of it. The problem I see with it is that I don't think most players, especially new players, understand the difference. If I remember correctly, a new player actually has all the hard walled servers filtered out initially. I think there needs to be some clear marker that shows the different game types so people understand what they are playing. Just as people said before there needs to be some "easy mode" indicator.

[innerlyte]

What Maimer said. I think Lam and Karl would appreciate it if we could just bear with them through this transitional period.

Originally Posted by nesnl

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think if any of the Official Servers (ie #1-#3) are bouncy it is by mistake. I believe that Lamster said it was some update error that caused those servers to revert to bouncy mode. So if those servers are still bouncy it definitely needs to be put to hard walled as there is absolutely no reason to have those servers in bouncy mode.

You're right, except it's Officials #4-7 (the fake official servers).

[Flyngbanana]

An easy mode indicator would help persuade some newbies to move over to hard walled servers methinks.

Otherwise whales will be an endangered species..

[[Y]]

Originally Posted by Flyngbanana

An easy mode indicator would help persuade some newbies to move over to hard walled servers methinks.

Otherwise whales will be an endangered species..

SAVE THE WHALES!!!! The majority of servers really should be hardwalls...

[Snowsickle]

I think it is rather presumptuous to say that new players enjoy bouncy servers more than normal servers. These are people that are downloading the game, installing it, and playing on, most likely, the first populated server they see. 9 times out of 10 this is going to be a bouncy server, and in the rare case that they end up on a normal server, its going to be full of experienced players that are ready to violate them in ways they never imagined possible. So new players definitely are getting the impression that bouncy servers are more fun - it's basically the only thing they can reasonably find a game to play on with similarly skilled players, and nobody enjoys getting destroyed by a bunch of people that have been playing forever. How can we say that new players like easymode when thats the direction every sign is pointing them in?

In fact, at least a few posts on the steam forums have commented that the game feels random and chaotic. Quoting two: "There's little to no team tactics..." and "I can't see myself playing it a lot, it's not like you can manage too much tactics in it due to it fast pace... and I have a lot games to play so". People judge the game on what they first see, and right now they see bouncy servers and a whole lot of them. This, I think, is definitely going to be detrimental to a developing competitive playerbase in the long run.

So what's the solution? I don't know; I like the idea of having wall elasticity based on player level - if the level cap is an accurate gauge of time spent on the game (not being circumvented by fast leveling servers) many players should be able to handle a tougher environment by the time they reach it if they are playing with similarly skilled people. The current situation is a spiralling one and I'm not sure players will attempt low skill level hard wall games on their own without some nudging.

A less extreme option would be to introduce some hard wall servers with level restrictions; sort of an intermediate between bouncy servers and "holy **** what is happening to me" servers.

Intended or not, bouncy servers are seen as the norm and I don't think this is completely due to a desire to play on them.

[NastyManatee]

Basically it somehow became necessary to turn rubber hull from a perk into a full-time play-style. The funny thing is that rubber hull was implemented as a method to get players used to flying correctly, and it worked as the starter perk since beta opened and generated multitudes of skilled flyers.

If people wanted to play better perks, they got better at flying so they didn't need rubber hull, in much the same way that many higher tier players get better at avoiding damage so they don't need repair drone and can use heavy armor or flexi (situation specific, I know). If you want weening, that's weening, in true and guaranteed form. If you wanted to avoid wall damage, you had to compensate and give other players a green perk advantage, so at least there was still a disadvantage involved with disregarding walls.

A big reason people pick up the game is for perk customization, but let's not bastardize the tried-and-true rubber hull -> better perks system just so everyone who picks up the game can play each perk the second they get it.

With bouncy servers in effect, rubber hull is purposeless, so if this is the system that is stuck with, I think a new green perk should be subbed in for rubber hull.

I'm not trying to harass, Karlam, but I feel this is currently a large divide between the old and the new (as ferret stated above), and needs to be addressed in detail by the part of the community who is feeling the hit the hardest.

[Vi*]

I definitely agree that there should be indicators for hard/bouncy, and for actually official servers vs fakes, and that default should be hard, and that noobs should see that hard is normal. I'd even agree to making rubber hull bouncier and killing bouncy servers altogether. In the mean time, many of you are contributing to a vicious cycle by logging in, seeing only bouncy servers, and either joining one or logging off rather than trying to start a real game.

I've had no trouble getting people in real games by messaging friends or popping into another server and dragging people out. I agree this is annoying, and hope the issues everyone has mentioned get addressed. There's no need to despair, though.

Originally Posted by Ferret

You've essentially introduced Big Game Hunters to the masses of your game...

Oh god.

Who wants to join my new clan No Bouncy?

[Jayfourke]

Yeah, balls to the bouncy servers. I'm trying to learn sniplane, and while it's frustrating crashing into a solid wall at high speed, backwards, it doesn't help me learn what I'm doing wrong when I just bounce off it.

[nobodyhome]

Originally Posted by Snowsickle

In fact, at least a few posts on the steam forums have commented that the game feels random and chaotic. Quoting two: "There's little to no team tactics..." and "I can't see myself playing it a lot, it's not like you can manage too much tactics in it due to it fast pace... and I have a lot games to play so". People judge the game on what they first see, and right now they see bouncy servers and a whole lot of them. This, I think, is definitely going to be detrimental to a developing competitive playerbase in the long run.

I think this issue (slightly different from the original topic) is important enough to warrant emphasizing. For your reference, here is the link to the post that says there isn't much team tactics, posted by smerles at steam: http://forums.steampowered.com/forum...2#post12362542

One solution I would propose is to lower the player limit on the official servers. I'm not quite talking about the hard ones, cause 7v7 is acceptable although slightly more chaotic than competitive-worthy, but the fun servers I believe are currently at a player limit of 20. 10v10 doesn't quite make for much more than mindless spam.

[eth]

Yep, that has been brought up before. But.. IT'S FUN!

I'll stop being a sarcastic asshole now

[Sarah Palin]

Well keep in mind Alti got a lot younger on average, what with a horde of new players and some old players leaving when their demos expired. The guy on the steam forum played 2 hrs, probably playing in servers with fellow Steamers. Bouncy walls or not, that's not going to give a great impression of the game's potential for skillful play.

The best way to build the community is: keep an eye on the newbies in your server. The ones who are doing really well - give them some encouragement, link them to the wiki, or to the guide forum. Also add some of them to your friend list, and invite them to join you when you play with your pre-Dec5 friends. I know when I was first starting out and my friend list was small, I looked there first thing for games to join. Gradually over time the better players will leave the bouncy servers behind and you'll have more friends to play with!

[Pax]

First of all, a real new advantage, there are servers in Germany, that is really awesome! (however could you lower the player limit?)

Besides from that, I really got disappointed of the way of playing lately.

The rooms are full of newbies. It is not as competitive as it was before. (I will not complain about the bouncy stuff.)

But seriously, take this advice, don't loose the grip to the veterans. Of course, I understand, you want more costumers.
Could you create more server for full-fledged pilots?

The veterans are your base, don't bomb them away.

[lamster]

The next patch will contain a bouncy/hard wall indicator on the server list.

I do not agree that bouncy walls ruin the game or prevent new players from improving to the point that they find hard walls interesting. I believe the opposite: based on player retention numbers, it appears that bouncy walls lead to greater numbers of highly skilled players down the line. Players with competitive mindsets often find the non-interactive element of dying to obstacles (due to their own poor flight skills) frustrating, whereas interactive deaths (killed by a player) invigorate their competitive drive and show a direct, comparative path for improvement. Players on bouncy servers still have plenty of incentive to learn to fly: hitting walls slows you down and forces you to burn energy speeding back up which in turn makes you an easy target, prevents you from making kills, and prevents you from completing and contributing towards objectives. The only major game-breaking change is that Explodets become much less lethal in bouncy servers. I don't like that part either, but if Explos receive a damage-oriented replacement to Thermo (which seems likely at this point) they will at least be perfectly viable on bouncy servers, even if they're not as interesting as on hard servers.

We have not, nor do we ever intend to abandon our hardcore player base. The official servers are still there as they always have been (except for a brief technical glitch), hard-walled and loosely ping-limited. I have no problem adding a few more hardwall servers with lower ping limits, though there are already several players hosting servers in that niche.

Of course the game changed overnight: the average player went from a 1.5-year vet to a 2-day newbie. Give it a few weeks and the players will stratify once again. Competitive players will seek out challenges. Give your hardcore friends a chance to stop noob-farming the bouncy servers and join you on the hard wall servers. The friend system makes it fairly easy to pack together in a hard wall server. The increasing player base will make it MUCH easier to find high quality games of all types, the new players just need a few weeks to learn the game and find their places.

[Tosconi]

in addition to what Pax said, I think, that it might be useful for the next couple of weeks establish more "min level 60" servers - as it used to be in june or so. Although the new players seem to get to the level 60 pretty quickly (like in a week or so) it still might help a bit.

But the point is - how is that possible to implement, if the servers are held by the users (which actually decide themselves what they prefer). Or do I get the server creation wrong? In this case - it is maybe useful to make a thread for the server holders, where common users would be able to clarify their preferences...or any other way to connect the actual players with the server holders. Now it seems to be completely random. Maybe it's possible to show a name of the sever holder in the servers name - to actually ask him/her for a change. We really need to connect preferences of the both groups and how if not through communication.

btw - can anyone, who has an account on steam - please post a survey - what steamers actually prefer? Because now it seems we're all talking about our assumptions, but not the facts.

[Evan20000]

Thank you Lam. That was exactly what I needed to hear.

When can we expect the next patch? After the steam scene sinks in a little bit?

[Kuja900]

"I just had my first experience on a non-bouncy server and it was a zillion times more fun, though. None of that "bounce here, bounce there, stalls are not a problem" nonsense, and I racked up a lot more kills, too.

Bouncy servers seem to be in the majority now, but I'm hoping (and assuming) that their numbers will decrease as people see how much more fun tough walls are."

-Steam User

http://forums.steampowered.com/forum....php?t=1055230

[Evan20000]

Damn it Kuja, I was just about to post that...