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#1
12-10-2009, 11:18 PM
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Potential for more balance?
Bomber (any config), and Minerva (any config) are both very fierce at top level play.
Flippy w/ dual rockets and Explodet w/Remote mines can also hold their own, but are put at a disadvantage more. Biplane just gets rolled over all the time though, and I can easily put the blame on it's weak secondary fire. . . I think the big problem is the energy cost to use. It's short range should balance it enough already so I'm offering up the suggestion to Lower the cost to fire the Biplane's Rapid Fire Guns Also. . . I noticed the Explodet's Giant primary fire Missile will go right through enemy aircraft and needs to be detonated manually. . . Explodet already deal themselves friendly fire so give credit where it's due! If you actually hit someone with that beastly shot the damage should be terrible! Lastly. . . As someone who primarily uses Flippy I was disapointed in the high ranked Acid bombs. They are nowhere near as good as the EMP so maybe consider having Acid Bombs deal a lot more damage for a direct hits to a plane 
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#3
12-10-2009, 11:24 PM
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Evan! How can you even ask such a thing when clearly Squid is so good that he has unlocked a 6th plane? Even I am not good enough to use Flippy.
Squid, you're going to learn a lot once you start playing on servers with hard walls. Though the soul of your post is correct: the planes could still use a bit of balancing.
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#5
12-10-2009, 11:40 PM
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Squidy has obviously never played a good biplane.
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#6
12-11-2009, 12:00 AM
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Minerva? Flippy? Have you not heard of these planes? Well I guess you two are just amateurs. Not only do I have BOTH of these planes on my settings, but I also unlocked them both before I was even born.
Don't ask how. I am simply Mr. Cool. Last edited by Fartface; 12-11-2009 at 12:04 AM.
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#7
12-11-2009, 12:01 AM
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Flippy is a great plane, I agree. The flipper decal on the side does it for me (http://mortystv.com/showcards/flipper_box_250.jpg).
You're a bit off on acid. It's under-appreciated. Not many players use it, but it's a huge advantage when someone is coming through a choke point. You can emp me and I'll eventually find a way to escape much of the time, but few people survive my acid+FFF head-on attack.
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#8
12-11-2009, 12:01 AM
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Perhaps some real responses rather than jibes at him would be nice? =P
Squid: Just fyi, the 5 planes are the Loopy, Bomber, Biplane, Explodet, and Miranda. As far as your points, it's interesting how you view some of the planes. For instance, the laser miranda is vastly underpowered right now. However, I'd argue that any plane can be extremely good based on the player. While it might seem to you that bomber is a top-tier plane, I'd argue that Monxy or Maimer or Tyr or etc with biplane is a lot more scary than a bomber. I haven't seen people "roll over" any of those players when they are playing their biplane. As far as the explodet goes, I get hit head on with explodet missiles all the time - they are already annoying. Doing a ton more damage would make them overpowered. To your point about loopy, acid bombs are amazing. When you hit someone with them all damage against that target does more. It's great in group scenarios. Perhaps play with it a bit more and see how that goes before you push it off as a lacky to emp. Perhaps try and experiment with some of the planes a bit more and I think you'll see some of your points differently with time.
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#9
12-11-2009, 12:14 AM
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I got a megakill x9 yesterday with my recoilless.
While I would personally love to have my secondary fire cost less energy, I also think it would make biplane totally overpowered. As mike and Vi said, the current balance is pretty good. Laser could use a slight up though, and do something to make director and dogfighter perks a bit more interesting, they're very rarely used today.
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#10
12-11-2009, 12:33 AM
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Yep, might wanna play a bit more before you run out with balance suggestions, no offense intended :P
Once upon a time I agreed dogfighter was bad, but I made it one of my configs and now I just love it, simply because of the recoil. You get to do some seriously cool **** with that recoil sometimes. STILL don't get the laser hate(vastly underpowered? REALLY?), it's one of the planes I rape the most with in pubs - it does sick damage, and while it has little health and like the loopy needs to be in combat for short times to survive, it also does insane DPS. You can take down a HA explodet with 1 laser burst. Do you really think you can't survive being near an explodet for the duration of 1 laser? I'm pretty sure I can 90% of the time.
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#11
12-11-2009, 12:46 AM
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Evan20000:
I think it would be hard to descibe the Ball and Bomb run matches without posting a vid so I'll keep it to DM. I usually go just under 100 with kills and assists combined. Screenshot of the last game I played here if you if you want proof. . . I've kept track of other people who have gone 100+ (and their build) and I can count those people on one hand. . . None were Biplane =( --- [FN]MONXY FIST: It's possible I suppose. . . I thought Explodet sucked for the longest time too until I found a guy who knew how to remote mine juggle --- Vi*: Most of my deaths are to people who stall on purpose or turret from the ground >.< Trust me. . . I prefer hard wall servers. --- mikesol: I think they just need to make the laser pierce and hit multiple targets. . . in 1v1 it's plenty good. lol at myself for not knowing the proper names =/ I have tried a number of games with acid bombs and while my assists would go up something like 40% my kills would go down 50-60% making it overall worse. . . (that's on a packed server too) --- eth: I'll probably give Biplane a few more tries Biplane vs. Flippy (Loopy) is really one sided though. . . after emp goes off Biplane usually doesn't get in anymore hits. --- tyr: The extra energy would make it so you could use small bursts of thrust to chase after people and still attack. If your loadout has recoil it's almost impossible to do this. . . - Last edited by MaximumSquid; 12-11-2009 at 01:07 AM.
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#13
12-11-2009, 12:55 AM
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60 kills in a DM match. Not bad. Unfortunately for you, it's pretty easy for some of the veterans here to do that nowadays since most of the people frequenting the DM servers are new players from steam (as I assume you are also).
Please note that most of these people have been playing FAR longer than you have, since this game was out (just not on steam) for almost a year now. The majority of the players who posted in response to you could get 60 kills in a TDM right now easily with ANY plane. The reason why you don't see many of these players is because they usually play TBD, which is currently far more competitive than TDM. As a side note, "stalling on purpose" is a legitimate tactic, especially for biplanes, for which is becomes extremely useful. Just keep these points in mind before you try to point out "imbalances" to people who've played this game for a year when you've only played for a week. Probably the only major imbalances that exist right now is in Remote Mine (overpowered), Time Anchor bomb running (slightly overpowered), and dogfighter/dumbbombs/laser (underpowered).
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#14
12-11-2009, 01:21 AM
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Sorry, no proper quotes here because it would be a pain.
"I've kept track of other people who have gone 100+ (and their build) and I can count those people on one hand. . ." The problem is that kills alone are not a determinant of balance. Biplane is also a very good bomb carrier, either best or second best, and it's very potent with the right player. "I think they just need to make the laser pierce and hit multiple targets. . . in 1v1 it's plenty good." This was previously how laser worked, but it was pretty OP and was thus nerfed. Nonetheless, a buff would make sense, but not pierce. "I have tried a number of games with acid bombs and while my assists would go up something like 40% my kills would go down 50-60% making it overall worse. . .(that's on a packed server too)" If you see a good acid loopy play, you'll see it's as good as EMP, just harder to get used to. I'd suggest you log more hours before making balance suggestions.
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#15
12-11-2009, 02:25 AM
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I played against MaximumSquid and he isn't bad.
Funny thing is that I was using bomber and getting insane killstreaks.. But I get owned by good biplanes and miranda's. I think the balance is very good, except Miranda is too good on ball(throwing ball in front of you and teleing to catch it yourself, repeat.) And some perks aren't good enough. Or just not varied enough. Biplane, bomber, and Miranda are the only planes with perks that have you play them vastly differently. On Biplane, why would you use the first perk when recoiless and HC are so much more useful? Does the 1st perk do more damage or something? With Bomber, flak tailgun and bombs are both great, but the tracking tailgun seems meh to me. With Explodet I don't see, again, why you'd use the first perk. Twisties or remote mines is so much better. But damn I wish I had a primary and secondary weapon perk. I'd rock twisties with remote, bombs with flak. I never use the front firing weapon with bombs unless I have the shield powerup. Last edited by innociv; 12-11-2009 at 02:27 AM.
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#16
12-11-2009, 02:55 AM
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AtomikPi:
Some people from the forums found me ingame and were showing off Biplane. I do agree now that it's good for Ball / Bomb runs. I'm still not convinced for 1v1 / TDM though so my suggestion to buff the weapontry in some way still stands. innociv: Oh hey. . . Being able to change both onboard weaposn would be sweet, but it would require a revamp to the inventory; as well as, a bunch of balancing. . . I know Dual Rockets + Acid Bomb would be OP for sure for FLiooppy
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#17
12-11-2009, 03:08 AM
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Quote:
Dude if your being emped you should be dead, unless you have lots of allies around but emp basically is an autowin 1v1. If you're escaping its because the people your facing can't aim (even with loopy) To MaxSquad: TDM is currently played on a bouncy server with an average level of 30. I went in there with HC (which I suck major balls at) and go 3-1 k/d easily. It is not a good server to base anything balance related as the player base is of no quality to tell - skill > plane choice in this server. Your suggestion to buff the weaponry (I think specifically the Bip's secondary) is bad. It already has such crazy burst damage, if you up it any more it'll 1 shot a whale. You said some people showed you its power, then why are you saying it still needs a buff? You haven't even seen someone abuse a laser player (normally tricksters) when calling for its nerf. You simply do not have the experience to make these judgements and playing on the TDM server with a bunch of noobs isn't going to get you it.
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#18
12-11-2009, 03:57 AM
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Quote:
As far as I know (and am concerned about), TBD is still the primary game mode, and so it should be the primary determinant judging a particular plane's viability.
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#19
12-11-2009, 08:30 AM
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Yeah, I mean... this is something every game struggles with. You have to pick a specific point to balance around. It's impossible to balance so that everything is viable for all game modes, maps, player counts, and skill levels. There's always going to be ease-of-use barriers or guys that are good at crowd control or whatever. Worrying about Trickster domination of 1DM to me is a bit like complaining that Zerg dominates 256x256 maps. It'd be nice if that weren't the case, but that kind of thing is unavoidable if you want to have really diverse, unique planes.
On a different note, to the original poster: all 5 planes currently get used by the best players in league games. Definitely there are some specific loadouts that get preference, but I think it's pretty remarkable that they all manage to have a role in competitive play at all.
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#20
12-11-2009, 08:34 AM
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I'm not gonna read all of this but from reading your post it seems you play bouncy walls which gives a different perspective on planes. From my perspective only things that need nerfs are trickster and remote.
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Linear Mode
