Introducing: The Altitude Ladder

[Firestrike]

Originally Posted by Sarah Palin

BALL_planepark is getting ridiculous.



I have kept a running count - because I disbelieved my first impression - over the past four days every time we play this map in Ladder.

Well, over 70% of goals are scored by running the ball along the bottom passage and scoring with either a dunk or a layup.

There is a confluence of reasons for this.

1. Spawns directly block the top passage, making that route impractical. Compare vs spawns in Snow or Labyrinth.

2. The bottom tunnel is almost completely shielded from all defending planes that aren't coming head-on the other way. Compare vs similar passages in Mayhem or Darkwar.

3. The tunnel is too narrow and too easily mined or walled, and the floor is completely smooth making dribbling easy. Compare vs similar passages in Lost City.

It's too easy to pass the ball down through the wide opening near the center of the map, then run it up and avoid confrontation with the defenders until you emerge right near the goal.

Conversely it's hard to clear the ball FROM the tunnel so once it gets down there, it stays.

I have seen games where the other team is full of clutch passers and great teamwork and we won because we threw the ball down there, walled it up, and then just kept pushing until someone dunked.

Maps should reward good teamwork. Snow for example is a good map because of all the curves - the ball just won't go anywhere unless you pass it.

I know people will say LARN 2 PLAY PALIN but Planepark is not good. It's pretty and took a lot of effort to make and we want to encourage map creation but bad maps should not be on Ladder.

I challenge anyone who disagrees with my analysis to keep a count of 10+ games and see what percent of goals come from which angle of attack.




Funnelpark is fine. It's not a lot of fun but it doesn't have this broken problem.

I totally agree. The way the map is made, the walls force the action down. This makes it too easy to shoot goals. Anyway, great job of analyzing the map!

[alexjalen]

I dont get this.

[Boko]

Because they didn't like bowserscastle, and that vote didn't even pass!

[SkyTiger]

Originally Posted by nobodyhome

Coding wise it is actually somewhat difficult (i.e. I can't think of a way it'll actually work without bugs) to set up ladder servers in multiple regions. I'll think more about this (probably not until after the reset) but you shouldn't count on it, sorry =\. Plus, australia/asia is the lowest traffic region out of northamerica/europe/asia-australia I believe, so it's on a lower priority than a european server.

Gee thats too bad.
I wonder if you would agree for someone in australia to use your code and set up an australia/asia ladder.

[Boko]

Sorry for budging in here, but how the hell could placing a server in different regions be difficult coding wise?

[nobodyhome]

Pretty simple--the usual synchronization problems arising from multiple servers trying to read/write to the same database.

[Boko]

You're already writing to the same database from different servers right? Even though they're all running on the same server, I doubt they are single threaded.

[nobodyhome]

Hmm not exactly. It goes multiple servers -> single log parser -> single database. This is because all four ladder servers write to the same log (which is all dealt with on lam's end) so I only have one log parser that writes to a database.

On the other hand it just occurred to me that the only database objects I have deal with matches (which are played on a single server) and with players (and players can't be in multiple servers at once) so I might not have synchronization problems after all. I'll have to think about this more later.

[York]

Originally Posted by nobodyhome

Hmm not exactly. It goes multiple servers -> single log parser -> single database. This is because all four ladder servers write to the same log (which is all dealt with on lam's end) so I only have one log parser that writes to a database.

On the other hand it just occurred to me that the only database objects I have deal with matches (which are played on a single server) and with players (and players can't be in multiple servers at once) so I might not have synchronization problems after all. I'll have to think about this more later.

LOL. You make my mind hurt when you all talk about writing this kind of stuff.

But I am thinking about a Cash Prize for when the ladder is reset.

What do you guys think is a good amount for me to donate?

[Evan20000]

Flight left in midgame for no good reason. So did a certain other player, but I don't have screenies to back that up.

[Kuja900]

Uhm I have a suggestion, could the randomizer be changed to not play the same map twice in a row.

[Evan20000]

Yeah, Loco 3 games in a row was NOT fun.

[Kuja900]

I rather enjoy Loco actually

[Evan20000]

Each game took 30-45 minutes. You wouldn't have liked it.

[Kuja900]

Originally Posted by Evan20000

Each game took 30-45 minutes. You wouldn't have liked it.

Wouldn't of happened if I was playing.

[Evan20000]

That's besides the point. It was still mind numbingly boring.

[Sunaku]

This is a plea.
Oh Lord (Nobo), can you do something about funnelpark, please ? At least removing it from the random would make the world a little bit of a better place. It would be the kick-start of a chain of good deeds that may very well result in me not ending as a serial killer, the creation of tiny dinosaurs pets and base jumping from the moon.
Do the right thing. Please.

PS : ball_cube is nice, how about putting it on ?

[nesnl]

Originally Posted by Sunaku

This is a plea.
Oh Lord (Nobo), can you do something about funnelpark, please ? At least removing it from the random would make the world a little bit of a better place. It would be the kick-start of a chain of good deeds that may very well result in me not ending as a serial killer, the creation of tiny dinosaurs pets and base jumping from the moon.
Do the right thing. Please.

PS : ball_cube is nice, how about putting it on ?

funnelpark is like the 2nd best ball map! why would anyone want to remove it other than being selfish and assuming that just because they dislike something that everyone should be punished for that opinion?

[Clapon]

Originally Posted by nesnl

funnelpark is like the 2nd best ball map! why would anyone want to remove it other than being selfish and assuming that just because they dislike something that everyone should be punished for that opinion?

AGREED! im a huge fan of funnlepark as it makes for great ball play. top 5 ball map easy!

[Sunaku]

Originally Posted by nesnl

funnelpark is like the 2nd best ball map! why would anyone want to remove it other than being selfish and assuming that just because they dislike something that everyone should be punished for that opinion?

Maybe because of these little things called arguments against it?
Being selfish or liking it is irrelevant here. You could also call me selfish for wanting football removed and call it the first best ball map if you want. It wouldn't change the fact as far as design goes, funnelpark is an awful map totally negating ball gameplay. It's a crashfest with long narrow tunnels leading to solo riding with close to no passing involved.

[nesnl]

Originally Posted by Sunaku

Maybe because of these little things called arguments against it?
Being selfish or liking it is irrelevant here. You could also call me selfish for wanting football removed and call it the first best ball map if you want. It wouldn't change the fact as far as design goes, funnelpark is an awful map totally negating ball gameplay. It's a crashfest with long narrow tunnels leading to solo riding with close to no passing involved.

As you can see from the post above yours there are some people that love this map. I don't think that it is "an awful map totally negating ball gameplay." I think that it is a map that requires more technical flying and better team play. And I am not saying that your opinions are invalid, I am saying that just because one person or even a few people don't like a map doesn't mean that it should be removed. I guarantee that if you asked around that you would find groups of people who hate each and every map out there. So just keep that in mind. There are always going to be maps that you like/hate with others who like/hate the total opposite maps.

[andy]

i didnt wanna make another thread just for this: since we have 2 ladder servers why is one no max ping and the other 400 max ping?
400 max ping is nearly the same as no max ping (nobody pings more than 400). I think we should have a server with 200 max ping and one with no max ping.

[tgleaf]

Part of the reason I ran the BALL maps survey was because there's always someone who will love or hate a certain map. It's helpful to see some perspective on what (most of) the community feels about each map. Funnelpark was low, but certainly not the lowest, as you can see in that link.

[D4rt]

Funnel is the only map where using 3 whales is a viable option in competitive games, meaning that:

- The nice variety of planes this game has loses it's meaning when one of them is in such a dominating part. This is what we call imbalance.
- Funnel can become Hell for light planes.

Also, the narrow tunnels are something to avoid for anything that's not a sea mammal. But because of the BALL's nature to shift towards the bottom, this is often impossible. The map is designed so, that the flow of the game mode forces you in to a very difficult position. Unless you are a whale of course.

[Kuja900]

Originally Posted by D4rt

Funnel is the only map where using 3 whales is a viable option in competitive games

I'd argue that 3 whales is viable on asteroids as well because of how short the distance is from the spawn to the goal.

[wolf'j'max]

Originally Posted by nesnl

funnelpark is like the 2nd best ball map! why would anyone want to remove it other than being selfish and assuming that just because they dislike something that everyone should be punished for that opinion?

i love funnel park since the explodet can be used in an attack very well, there are some shots which can be made by an explodet very easily.

edit:
btw:

Originally Posted by Evan20000

Flight left in midgame for no good reason. So did a certain other player, but I don't have screenies to back that up.

flight is very sad about his lag. if anyone ever complains about it he can get very angry since he can't do anything about it. i learned about it in the very same situation.

[nesnl]

Originally Posted by tgleaf

Part of the reason I ran the BALL maps survey was because there's always someone who will love or hate a certain map. It's helpful to see some perspective on what (most of) the community feels about each map. Funnelpark was low, but certainly not the lowest, as you can see in that link.

The fact that Snow ended up being the top ranked map is funny to me because I consider that map to be one of the worst ball maps out there. The design is so simple that it ends up being a spam fest in that one long tunnel where each team tries to push the ball forward through spawn waves and spamming bombers/loopys. However, I am starting to think that this type of strategy is what people like in ball.

[Sunaku]

Originally Posted by nesnl

I guarantee that if you asked around that you would find groups of people who hate each and every map out there. So just keep that in mind. There are always going to be maps that you like/hate with others who like/hate the total opposite maps.

This is kind of what I was saying in my previous post by the fact that simply "liking it" is a limited perspective. There is no consensus about any map. Which is exactly why I brought up football. Some people like it and may even advocate it for ladder.
But let's take a concrete and less extreme example : mayhem. I like mayhem but people complained that the map was too big and the games took too long, and it was true. So it was removed from ladder and it made sense. The same way that removing funnelpark would now make sense because it makes for the least interesting planeball games you can witness and play in the ladder and possibly the whole game.

I think you have enough knowledge about the game that I don't have to remind you that "technical flying" only goes so far when EMP and thermo are involved, to my deepest regret. As for team play, I honestly don't see it, one plane can take a tunnel and you'll never see it again.
The same way too opened maps are not very interesting, this map is too closed on itself which makes it both not interesting and a chore to play.

PS : Snow is not that great but calling its bottom part a long tunnel, I wonder how you would call funnelpark's actual ones

PS2 : Base jumping from the moon. Think about it.

[Ctrl Alt Destroy]

Originally Posted by eth

HOW AWESOME IS THIS? THANKS A LOT GU-

oh wait

lolz. But, still, YOU GUYS ROCK!!!!

[Sarah Palin]

Funnelpark is fine. It's Planepark that destroys souls.

[blln4lyf]

Originally Posted by Sarah Palin

Funnelpark is fine. It's Planepark that destroys souls.

Except most people think quite the opposite.

[nesnl]

Planepark best map imo.

[wolf'j'max]

1. Funnelpark
2. Planepark
3. Cave.

/discuss

[Sarah Palin]

Originally Posted by nesnl

Planepark best map imo.

lieeeeeeeees

[wolf'j'max]

Originally Posted by Sarah Palin

lieeeeeeeees

Will you stop whining about planepark in maimer's direction? Just so you know he did half the work of the map so it is obvious that he likes the map.

[elxir]

Originally Posted by nesnl

Planepark best map imo.

fact. count it.

[Sunaku]

Originally Posted by wolf'j'max

1. Funnelpark
2. Planepark
3. Cave.

/discuss

/vomit
Except Planepark, cool map.

[nostrich]

Hello! I haven't read the entire thread, but I just wanted to chime in and say that I played my first two ladder ball games (rather badly!) last night and it was great fun. Just wanted to show some continued appreciation for something like this existing, since most of the last few pages seems to be fighting about bans and maps. (I really like Planepark, for what it's worth; all great maps have elements like the bottom tunnel that can be exploited, just learn to defend them.)

I'm not as interested in knowing my rating (I already know I suck, comparatively) as I am in fun, competitive ball games; the public servers -- with the exception of {arr}'s servers, where I've spent most of my time up until now -- seem to be a terrible mess of new players completely devoid of any strategy. It's nice to see some banter and discussion in-game too -- the Altitude community in general seems to be fairly well-mannered and friendly (which is a relief, considering the quality of life in most multiplayer games), but it can seem very quiet during games.

I don't get on Altitude too often -- I bought it when it was launched on Steam for Mac and have only logged 62 hours thus far (currently around level 30, Ace 2) -- but I expect to spend a bunch of time in the ladder servers. So thanks!

If you have any way of accepting donations, I recommend publicizing it. This kind of server is a _huge_ benefit to the community; I know a lot of people will refuse to play multiplayer games unless it's competitive, and it just has the general effect of improving the standard of gameplay overall. That's worth supporting any way possible, I think, and I'm guessing a lot of people would be willing to. (I'm assuming here that monetary compensation would be helpful in motivating you to provide continued support.)

Incidentally, have you considered packaging this up into something you can release as a general use utility for people running Altitude servers? For the reasons above, I think that would be really well received.

[King!]

Haha, King! is #1 in tbd right now because of name changing shenanigans with ingbo. Pretty crazy that he is 425 pts higher than the #2, stop hacking yo!

[Warnerrr]

So I hopped on to finally play my first game of Plane Ball on the ladder server...and WOW. I was greeted with rudeness, mockery, and jerks in general.

Is the point of playing on the ladderball server to be ridiculed your first time out? Are the "leet" people who play all the time supposed to act like a pack of jackals and mock me, and tell me that I am "f***ing terrible" or "OMFG PLEASE F***ING SPECTATE", and continue to do so, until I get fed up and tell them to "F*** off" and then I get banned? While playing against people named C**shot and similar names, I find it hard to believe that they can just act in any way they choose, but should someone tell them to "f*** off and just play the game" they get banned for 24 hours. What a wonderful server you folks have there. Enjoy your evening.