The Biplane

[gammelonkel]

I'm pretty new to the game, but have been playing loopy so far and racked up a nice ratio. However, I'm starting to learn the biplane. I think its a much more fun plane to fly, except from in ball.

Just one general question: It seems many people find the biplane the "weakest" plane in terms of power, but sometimes useful and fun. Is this the case or not?
Is it underpowered but popular nonetheless, or simply harder to utilize?

Would like some input on that, thanks.

[Stormich]

Biplane is great at killing stuff at close range and bomb running. The problem with biplane comes in 5v5, it's not as useful as the other planes. It's kind of a jack of all trades except in bomb running in which it excels. Being jack of all trades makes it weaker in every other position than other planes. Personally I love playing the biplane but with the metagame as it is now it's mostly useless in higher tier games.

[NomNom]

Yes unless you're bomb running, a biplane is useless compared to the other planes. It is fun to play though.

[Triped]

I think it's just harder to utilize.

[[Y]]

Biplane's Heavy Canon can also be helpful in sniping key enemy planes such as enemy explodets, mirandas, bomb runner, etc.

[MuttersomeTaxicab]

Yeah, I didn't bother with the Biplane until I unlocked the heavy cannon.

Even now, I'm pretty much just playing it to get the steam achievements out of the way, then I'll probably leave it alone.

[tyr]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jTQe8WOsXU

Biplane is the most fun plane to fly in this game in my mind.
It can do amazing things if you're doing it right.

[gammelonkel]

Thats kinda my impression too. And as long as top tier isn't an option, it seems a good plane to fly. So there's about no biplanes in the APL?

I find the recoilless a better option for me, but that may be because i'm used to the loopy with its hit'n'runs.

[MuttersomeTaxicab]

Yeah, the different play style for each plane is a very cool feature. I can see how the biplane could be effective, and I'm really starting to appreciate/fear the heavy cannon.

I imagine, given the inclination and the time, I'd probably become fairly effective at the biplane, but right now, I favour the heavier planes.

Of course, that could change at any time.

[hurripilot]

Biplane is probably the most difficult plane to fly in this game. It took me months to reach the somewhat elevated mediocrity with which I use this aircraft. I can be mediocre at Explodet in about 2 weeks, same with Loopy, Bomber, and Miranda. My point : The Biplane is much more of a time investment than the other aircraft. I don't think I've ever seen a Biplane used to it's full potential in this game. Do I sometimes feel useless in 5v5s? Yes, but that's because I pretty much suck at Biplane, despite having played it almost exclusively since I got the game back in May of '09.

I believe the Biplane has the potential to do unbelievable things in this game. Things that just cannot be comprehended by our current player line-up. That's why I've been observing other Biplane pilots and stealing their set-ups (ty guys ). Flying Biplane, you can just feel its potential. You know automatically that your plane is better than you are at this game, and that's the way it should be. When I die in the Bipe, even in what at first seems to be the most impossible situation, I just know there was a way to use the airplane to get out of it, somehow, and I want to find it.

[gammelonkel]

Interesting perspective... Hope you're right, so the playing time with biplane from now on is a good investment.
Which perk-combo do you prefer?

[Beagle]

Originally Posted by gammelonkel

It seems many people find the biplane the "weakest" plane in terms of power, but sometimes useful and fun.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat the hell

Sounds like its time to make another video

[tyr]

Originally Posted by Beagle

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat the hell

Sounds like its time to make another video

Already working on it.

[hurripilot]

Originally Posted by gammelonkel

Interesting perspective... Hope you're right, so the playing time with biplane from now on is a good investment.
Which perk-combo do you prefer?

My favsies (has been since I started on Bipe) is Heavy Cannon, Flexible Wings, Turbo Charger. That one is by far the most popular Heavy Cannon set-up that doesn't use Reverse Thrust. It works well with Ultracapacitor as well.

Other good ones to try are :

Recoilless Gun, Flexible Wings, Turbo Charger

Dogfighter, Flexible Wings, Turbo Charger (also try this one with Ultracapacitor)

Recoilless, Heavy Armor, Turbo Charger

Heavy Cannon, Heavy Armor, Ultracapacitor

[Triped]

Heavy cannon, repair, instincts is pretty nice.

[gammelonkel]

Originally Posted by Beagle

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat the hell

Sounds like its time to make another video

Watching videos: check.
Inspired

[Sarah Palin]

I think the impression of weakness comes from the fact that Biplane is one of two planes (together with loopy) that is played in greater proportion than is actually useful on 5v5 TBD.

[[Y]]

Originally Posted by Sarah Palin

I think the impression of weakness comes from the fact that Biplane is one of two planes (together with loopy) that is played in greater proportion than is actually useful on 5v5 TBD.

When you have 2 bomber/2 explodets + 1 biplane/loopy/miranda, as is often the case in ladder games nowadays, I don't think the biplane is played in a greater proportion.

[[FN]MONXY FIST]

Recoiless is useless in competitve 5v5.

[tyr]

Except for bomb running if you're good at that.

[Beagle]

Originally Posted by [FN]MONXY FIST

Recoiless is useless in competitve 5v5.

I'm tired of hearing one line sentences of how 'X is useless in competitive play'.

Mostly because its pointless naysaying and said playstyle always finds a way to be useful. Not singling you out Monxy, this kind of scared to think outside the box elitism happens almost everywhere that the word 'competitive' has meaning.

I will always be of the opinion that everything has potential, we just don't have players good enough at it yet to demonstrate it.

[snivilous]

I personally love the biplane, i play it 99% of the time. For defense and offense its insanely powerful, especially at defense since it take 1/4 of a second to kill a loopy which is the most common aircraft. I have the best kdr on the biplane, and like previously stated it can take out any aircraft in under a second as long as in range. It has the most powerful damage possible when used right and has long and short range firing abilities unlike other aircraft. I personally use recoilles, turbocharger, and repair; though im converting to recoilles, flexible, and ace which is a lot stronger. I've never seen the bip as a good bomb runner, since I usually escort since you can just plow a path through. The only down side is that its not insanely strong in any one field area, though that allows for all around use

[gren00b]

Originally Posted by snivilous

I personally love the biplane, i play it 99% of the time. For defense and offense its insanely powerful[. . . .] The only down side is that its not insanely strong in any one field area, though that allows for all around use

I disagree. The biplane is the strongest in two fields: badass-ness and badass-icity.

Equip it with reverse thrust and you'll never crash again or get stuck in some hole on the ground where you can't boost out and you actually hope to get thermo'd just so you can get some momentum to fly away.

Sniplane 4 Life!

[Beagle]

Originally Posted by gren00b

Equip it with reverse thrust and you'll never crash again

I think you mean equip it with reverse thrust and you'll crash a lot more for a week or two, and then you'll slowly stop crashing

[Kuja900]

In terms of competitive play, amongst most of the top teams at least, the biplane only sees use as a bomb runner and its generally seen as useless for anything else. It is a "jack of all trades master of none" plane (or at least thats how I like to describe it) and teams prefer more specialized roles in their lineups.

[Beagle]

The above post highlights what I don't like about competitive scenes that take themselves ultra seriously - absoloutely everyone is only concerned with min/maxing, and no-one wants to try something new or scary.

Describing a plane as a 'jack of all trades' and also calling it 'useless' in the same post is either an accidental contradiction or an example of that kind of behaviour. If its not the choice that the alpha consider the absoloute best, it isn't considered. I think that's a shame.

[eth]

That's kinda the point of competitive dude. Most of us competitive guys like to try out other **** in pubs etc, just not in matches that matter(why would we do that? 5 sniplanes vs 5 reverse anchor fLb vs ACE finals?)

[Beagle]

That's not what I'm talking about though. I'm talking about how most players just seem to go 'okay this sucks this sucks this sucks' and never contemplate it could have a use, they're just not using it right.

Basically, what I'm saying is barring the odd loony, everyone just closes their mind to anything other than the community accepted norm and calls it all useless.

If this talk is to be taken as their true feelings, that is. Maybe its really meta and all the top clans naysay things that they're actually developing so other clans don't use them. Who knows!

[GGQ]

Beagle, it's not that no one has tried it, it's that it's been tried in lots of practice games and practice confirms what you would expect to see theoretically; the biplane's lack of a distinct strength to add to the team's arsenal makes it a weaker choice than any other plane that could replace it. The bomber adds ridiculous firepower to clear out a choke before a push, the explodet adds great zone control and defense, the loopy softens up the other team with either of its secondaries, and the miranda is just more efficient at eliminating a given target. Biplane is a great all-arounder, which makes it just as strong as the other planes in general, but when you focus on teamwork, it doesn't have a distinct strength to add to the team, aside from its combination of agility and health making it a strong bomb-runner..

As for taking the competitive scene seriously, that's what it's there for. Have you played a game competitively before? The point is to bring the game to the highest state of play possible, not to ignore what's better by trying a less-used option just for kicks.

Obviously, it's an overstatement to call biplane 'useless' in competitive play. It's far far more useful than having no plane, for instance. But in the current state of 5v5 TBD, the biplane's strengths are not able to shine. Thus, it isn't widely used or considered 'good', and for good reason. Maybe that'll change, that's the joy of competitive play; when the game state changes because someone found a better way to play, not because someone decided that using a biplane would be 'fun'.

[Stormich]

Very nice post by GGQ and I agree wholeheartedly. I'm hoping that biplane will become more used but at the moment I don't see what radical change in the way the plane is used can happen. Even the HC has become weaker with a lot of the mirandas packing on heavy armor.

[Evan20000]

Originally Posted by Stormich

Even the HC has become weaker with a lot of the mirandas packing on heavy armor.

I've only seen myself, Ingbo and UFO do this. >.>

[tyr]

Originally Posted by Evan20000

I've only seen myself, Ingbo and UFO do this. >.>

I think you forgot to mention Cloud, the person who actually started that trend.

[Beagle]

Thats fine and good GGQ, I was just speaking my mind on something of a trend that isn't always backed by thoughtful research.

I was just irked that people don't seem to keep an open mind. I remember not long ago when Remote was ridiculed, and look at the state of Explodets today.

That's all.

[Kuja900]

Originally Posted by Beagle

Thats fine and good GGQ, I was just speaking my mind on something of a trend that isn't always backed by thoughtful research.

I was just irked that people don't seem to keep an open mind. I remember not long ago when Remote was ridiculed, and look at the state of Explodets today.

That's all.

I think you haven't actually looked into the research that has been done. All the claims myself, other fLb, and ACE members have been making are the conclusions we have come to after playing countless 5v5 games. If you don't think we have tested almost every out of the box thing you can thing of I can assure you that your mistaken.

[classicallad]

could you ellaborate please on the current state of explodets?

[Jayfourke]

Erm... remote sucks because you can't mercilessly slaughter tailgaters anymore...?

Also, biplanes should not corner like tanks.

[[FN]MONXY FIST]

I have never played recoilless before, i just like to make baseless claims to annoy beagle.

[GGQ]

Originally Posted by Kuja900

I think you haven't actually looked into the research that has been done. All the claims myself, other fLb, and ACE members have been making are the conclusions we have come to after playing countless 5v5 games. If you don't think we have tested almost every out of the box thing you can thing of I can assure you that your mistaken.

Nah, Beagle has a point; even in highly competitive games that are considered almost completely 'figured out' (ie Starcraft), things that have been discounted for years as 'useless' can end up finding a use (defilers, recently dark archons, maybe in the future queens?).

When we say 'biplane is useless in competitive 5v5', we can say it with the certainty of logical theory and consistent experience, but we should remember that we could still be wrong; there could still be something we aren't seeing.

[Kuja900]

Originally Posted by GGQ

Nah, Beagle has a point; even in highly competitive games that are considered almost completely 'figured out' (ie Starcraft), things that have been discounted for years as 'useless' can end up finding a use (defilers, recently dark archons, maybe in the future queens?).

When we say 'biplane is useless in competitive 5v5', we can say it with the certainty of logical theory and consistent experience, but we should remember that we could still be wrong; there could still be something we aren't seeing.

Altitude is an amazing game but Starcraft has no peers, I dont think there is enough depth or variance in the game for anything drastically new to be uncovered.

[Stormich]

Originally Posted by Evan20000

I've only seen myself, Ingbo and UFO do this. >.>

Cloud, Jeppew, CCN, myself, just to name a few :P Since the repair nerf a lot of mirandas have been switching to heavy armor, especially lasers.