Map Pool Discussion

[Smushface]

I think we need to address what maps should be allowed in competitive play. Specifically, we need to reevaluate certain maps that I believe need a couple of tweaks before they're reinstated back into the competitive map pool.

Right now the map pool on the ladder server is:
Asteroids
Cave
Core
Fallout
Grotto
Heights
Justice
Locomotion
Lostcity
Mayhem
Middleground
Woods

Other maps that are around:
Focus
Nuclear
(I don't know any others)

The maps that are defined as "fine" (based on the fact that they're played nonstop) are the following:
-Asteroids, cave, core, grotto, heights, and mayhem.

Which leaves:
-Fallout, Justice, Locomotion, Lostcity, Middleground and Woods

So I figure we can use this thread to bring up any issues we have with current / potential maps. Sorry if I'm putting this in the wrong place, I don't know where else it would go.

[Smushface]

Justice: My biggest problem with Justice right now is that it has a really bright off-white background. It makes it hard to look at for longer than 5 minutes and there's also the issue that time-anchors can't see their white anchor. Maybe change the background so we can test this map out and then go from there.

Locomotion: I really like this map besides the fact that it leads to some of the longest games between even teams.

Lostcity: I'm okay with this map. People call it campy, but the team that pushes smarter and more often wins. Not a very interesting map to play on.

Middleground: Don't really know what you can change about this map. Its incredibly difficult to bomb successfully because you fight for a neutral bomb, then have to pass through 2 "buildings" that can be easily choked and then into a huge, wide open area. The bottom route is completely useless because it takes too long.

[Sarah Palin]

I think some maps that are played extremely rarely should be taken out of the ladder servers, and rotate in some new ones.

(data from Feb 2)

Asteroids: 217 games played
Core: 202 games played
Cave: 187 games played
Grotto: 102 games played
Mayhem: 72 games played

These maps aren't going anywhere (I wish Mayhem was played more often!)

We have 2 team maps (Asteroids, Cave), 2 neutral maps (Core, Grotto), and one double-neutral map (Mayhem).




Lost city: 32 games played
Heights: 31 games played
Fallout: 27 games played
Woods: 19 games played
Middleground: 15 games played
Locomotion: 13 games played
Justice: 0 games played?

Of these maps, Heights is the best team map, and Locomotion is the best neutral map, at least in my opinion. Fallout's not great, but it's underrated so why not throw that in to make eight maps.


So if you have:

Asteroids (T)
Core (N)
Cave (T)
Grotto (N)
Mayhem (2N)
Heights (T)
Fallout (T)
Locomotion (N)

You're keeping the maps that 90%+ of games have been played on. Then you can afford to mix in a new map or two like Focus (which is AWESOME).

[wolf'j'max]

I want nuclear and focus in the server thats all. Just keep these other maps since they are good too.

[DiogenesDog]

why not just add the new maps and still leave the old maps alone? no reason why the server would only support X maps.

[nobodyhome]

cause then we can't implement a random map feature without having people ragequit when it turns out to be middlegrounds with 4 explodets on each side.

[tyr]

Lost City is totally underrated. It is in my opinion one of the best maps for competitive 5v5 TBD. It requires good coordination by the teams, good map control and overall good teamwork in order to win. Honestly, I really don't know why people don't like this map since it actually is much less campy than cave/core for instance.

Fallout is okay. I can't complain about this map.

I think the biggest problem with woods is that it's a really slow map without being a campy map, just because the bottom path isn't good for bombing so you actually have to fly the bomb for a loooooooong time in order to get to the enemy base effectively. So it makes the map not that exciting.

Middleground and loco are just campy. I like these maps but the games are long because of that campy style, so they aren't played a lot.

Ironically, I HATE grotto and mayhem. Those two really are the maps I can't stand playing on.
Grotto is the campiest map of the whole map pool in my opinion, and the games on it are just boring and based on luck.
And mayhem is just super random with the TWO neutral bombs. A single neutral bomb is already much more random than a team bomb (not that I don't like that) but two are just too much.

[Kuja900]

Lol tyr didn't you before despise lost city to the point of trying to petition its removal from the leagues?

[tyr]

No that wasnt me. I didn't really had any feelings about that map previously but now I like it.
I think you're thinking it was me cuz I wanted to limit the number of same planes in a team to two but it didn't work out.

[Kuja900]

Originally Posted by tyr

No that wasnt me. I didn't really had any feelings about that map previously but now I like it.
I think you're thinking it was me cuz I wanted to limit the number of same planes in a team to two but it didn't work out.

Hah no it was you, I remember talking about it with you.

[Sarah Palin]

Interestingly I think Mayhem is the BEST of the neutral bomb maps. You need team coordination to keep track of which spawn is next. You can manipulate grabbing the health packs to make bombs spawn at an opportune time (such as together). Different parts of the map are dead space at different times which means you have to keep on your toes.

In general I dislike the neutral maps, Mayhem is well crafted though. Compare to Grotto which as tyr said is a major campfest.

[Sarah Palin]

Of the top 100 longest lasting games:

4 were on Cave (representing roughly 2% of all Cave games)
6 on Asteroids (roughly 3% of all Asteroids games)
17 on Grotto (17%)
19 on Mayhem (26%)
40 on Core (20%)

This somewhat backs up the assumption that neutral bomb maps take longer.. in some cases a LOT longer.


EDIT: the 100 shortest games:

2 on Mayhem (3%)
8 on Grotto (8%)
18 on Asteroids (8%)
19 on Core (9%)
42 on Cave (22%)

Cave is a lot quicker than Asteroids.