Ace Ranks Suggestion

[nesnl]

Personally, I don't like the current way Ace Ranks works. I think the idea behind Ace Ranks is good, which is to give players something to work towards. However, I think that resetting their level and basing it on xp is the wrong way to do it. This creates servers with tons of low level players and that creates games with a low plane diversity. This is the same problem we had when there were tons of demo players who had played for hundreds of hours. Also, the Ace Ranks don't really show anything except that the person got a lot of experience points. This promotes people playing in environments purely to get the most xp the fastest (and in some cases it drove some people to abuse). When Ace Ranks came out, the most popular servers were the 10v10 bouncy servers for a few days (luckily thats not the trend so much anymore).

I think the system should change. Overall, I like the idea, but I feel like the implementation wasn't ideal. Here is what I think should be done. First, reset everyone back to level 60. Then make the Ace Ranks challenge based (the same ones as leveling from 1 to 60), but make the challenges increase in difficulty. This will do a few things. First, since it won't be based on xp, people will play in games they find fun instead of just trying to grind. Second, you can limit the challenges to being in multiplayer games only (with bot kills not counting). So people won't be able to abuse (for the most part) when trying to do the Multi-Kill challenges and the X amount of kills in a row. Second, since it will be challenge based, everyone will retain all of their planes instead of losing all the perks like in the current system.

Here is roughly how I see it working:

Current Challenges (for each plane):
150 Kills - 4x Multi-Kill - 10 Kills in a row

Rank 1 Ace (for each plane):
500 Kills - 4x Multi-Kill - 11 Kills in a row

Rank 2 Ace (for each plane):
750 Kills - 4x Multi-Kill - 12 Kills in a row

Rank 3 Ace (for each plane):
1000 Kills - 4x Multi-Kill - 13 Kills in a row

Rank 4 Ace (for each plane):
1250 Kills - 4x Multi-Kill - 14 Kills in a row

Rank 5 Ace (for each plane):
1500 Kills - 4x Multi-Kill - 15 Kills in a row

Rank 6 Ace (for each plane):
1750 Kills - 5x Multi-Kill - 16 Kills in a row

Rank 7 Ace (for each plane):
2000 Kills - 5x Multi-Kill - 17 Kills in a row

Rank 8 Ace (for each plane):
2250 Kills - 5x Multi-Kill - 18 Kills in a row

Rank 9 Ace (for each plane):
2500 Kills - 5x Multi-Kill - 19 Kills in a row

Rank 10 Ace (for each plane):
3000 Kills - 5x Multi-Kill - 20 Kills in a row

So basically the way I see it working is this. When you hit level 60, you automatically go into "Ace Mode." All the challenges for the first Ace Rank would automatically unlock. Only when you complete all the challenges do you then get the first badge. Then when that happens it unlocks the Ace Rank 2 challenges. So you don't start getting kill counts or multi-kill credit until that level is unlocked. So you have to do Multi-Kill 4x or 5x for each plane for each level of Ace Rank.

Anyway, that's my idea. I think it would work better than the current system. Thoughts?

[Ajuk999]

Very Well Thought out. I agree with the number of kills it would take to get to the next level. I like how you would have to do Multi Kill for each plane. Sounds more challenging and exciting than the current system.

[gemigemi]

I also agree that a better system can be implemented, and preferably one that requires you to play all planes. Currently the system actually prevents you from playing most planes as you 1) don't have them unlocked until further down the leveling curve 2) don't have the perks you'd need to use them (eg. if you play a time anchor miranda you never get to play the plane as ta is unlocked at lvl58 or something).

Although the system suggested above my Maimer is a decent one, I see some problems with people on the public servers going into "kill whoring mode". Already now kill biatches make ball games irritating (don't know about other game modes) as they rarely contribute to the actual activity of putting the round thing into the square thing on the other side of the field, and spend a lot of time just running away from everything to regain life so that they don't lose their ratio/kill streak.

To avoid problems like these I'd suggest a more simple system: Have a separate xp bar for each plane. Once the bar's are at the maximum level for all planes then you get to the next ace rank and can start leveling each plane again. You could maybe have 10 or so levels per plane with slightly larger requirements to make it equal to the current 60 levels. With xp you don't have a reason for avoiding deaths or avoiding to play the game as much as with kill streaks etc.

If you want to have the unlock system still in place (although many players seem to not like locking everything again) then the unlocks of red perks would be tied to the xp bar of each specific plane, and the green/blue perks would probably require levels in each plane. All perks should be available long before the top levels though as otherwise a player wont have access to them during the leveling process. Probably just better to scratch the locking thing.

[Pieface]

I like the idea of Ace Ranks based on challenge completion rather than experience, but am not so sure about having to complete it for each plane in order to advance. There are a lot of people who only play a couple of planes well, but excel at those particular planes more than most other players. Is it right and best for the game to have everyone need to get good at all planes to unlock more content? Or is it better to let everyone decide personally which plane(s) they like best and still let them unlock cool badges?

Not really sure of the answer to that question, just something to think about.

[andy]

i like the ranks you proposed, i think it would limit the farming a lot if you exclude bot kills. and xp wouldnt count.

[Harmonica]

Neat ideas. Here are my thoughts:

1) I like the use of 'challenges' for advancing, instead of (or in addition to) experience points. While a few of them might drive some players to just go kill-whore on a 10v10 server, such behavior would be relatively short-lived (I hope) and it's a better side effect than people just playing in private servers.

2) I felt that re-locking the perks made things a lot more interesting: it forced me out of the normal "I'll just use these perks" rut, and it forces the Ace/Prestige system to be a deliberate, intentional step -- rather than a passive, automatic one.

The order in which things are unlocked does seem a bit awkward for experienced players, however. I like Gemi's "experience with one plane / all planes" idea for unlocking things -- or even a random unlock order, to keep things interesting and encourage playing perks/builds that you don't normally play.

3) As someone who never plays Miranda, the "for each plane" requirements seem very formidable -- I'd probably take me weeks with Miranda to achieve what I can do in a day with the other planes. Then again, I probably shouldn't have been neglecting Miranda to begin with. =P

--
Here's one idea for how the 'challenges' idea could be extended to work for both well-rounded and specialized players:
Ace ranks could be advanced via a 'number of challenges'-based system, with challenges similar to what you list above (for each plane), where a player must achieve a certain number of challenges to advance each Ace rank.

For example, there could be challenges like "500 kills", "1000 kills", "10 in a row", "15 in a row", etc for each plane. When a player achieves 10 of them, they could advance to Rank 1 Ace, and the challenges then reset. Rank 2 Ace would offer the same challenges, yet require the completion of, say, 15 .

Thus, a well-rounded player could get five "500 kills" and five "5x multikill" (one for each plane), while a one-plane specialized player might need "500 kills", "1000 kills", "2000 kills", "10 in a row", "20 in a row", "5x multikill", and others for their specialized plane. Most players would presumably fall somewhere between those two.

[r87]

Originally Posted by nesnl

First, reset everyone back to level 60.

Thoughts?

I just spent a lot of hours scoring a lot of goals, don't take my shiny A2 badge.

[r87]

Harmonica's idea is sweet.

If anyone have played MLB: The Show and seen the list of team goals, something like that for each level of Ace would be nifty. That's the comparison I drew with Harm's idea.

As some of you know, I only play ball, and so I am looking at this rom that perspective. Basically, my goal is never to get the most kills. My intention is to score the most. So, I feel like any revamped Ace system (meh) shouldn't be based on needing billions of ridiculous 10+ multikills that frankly, rarely happen in a good game of ball.

[Smushface]

I don't think that everyone's Ace ranks should be reverted. Its punishing the entire community for the actions of a few. I say reroll the abusers and leave everyone else the same.

I'm okay with the merit-based prestige system, but I think more needs to be added onto it. Focusing on killing is going to lead to too much kill whoring. What if it had to deal with games won? Like you need to win X number X game mode.

For example, using your model:
Rank 8 Ace (for each plane):
2250 Kills - 5x Multi-Kill - 18 Kills in a row - 50 victories in TBD - 50 victories in Ball

[andy]

Originally Posted by Smushface

I don't think that everyone's Ace ranks should be reverted. Its punishing the entire community for the actions of a few. I say reroll the abusers and leave everyone else the same.

I'm okay with the merit-based prestige system, but I think more needs to be added onto it. Focusing on killing is going to lead to too much kill whoring. What if it had to deal with games won? Like you need to win X number X game mode.

For example, using your model:
Rank 8 Ace (for each plane):
2250 Kills - 5x Multi-Kill - 18 Kills in a row - 50 victories in TBD - 50 victories in Ball

if i can add something else to your model, maybe just for the last two ranks to make it more competitive and to make the last two ranks tougher to achieve: Rank 10 Ace :
for each plane: 3000 Kills - 5x Multi-Kill - 20 Kills in a row -
in total: 100 victories in TBD - 100 victories in Ball - 10 ffa victories - 5 tbd victories in a row - 5 ball victories in a row.

i added "in total" since i think its possible to play a single tbd match with more than one plane. Obviously the tbd/ffa/ball victories would count only if obtained on official servers (official 1-3) with at least 6 people in the server.

[gemigemi]

Originally Posted by r87

As some of you know, I only play ball, and so I am looking at this rom that perspective. Basically, my goal is never to get the most kills. My intention is to score the most. So, I feel like any revamped Ace system (meh) shouldn't be based on needing billions of ridiculous 10+ multikills that frankly, rarely happen in a good game of ball.

I agree totally.

Originally Posted by Smushface

I don't think that everyone's Ace ranks should be reverted. Its punishing the entire community for the actions of a few. I say reroll the abusers and leave everyone else the same.

Agreed. Ace ranks should not be removed even if the system is revamped as some players have used real dedication to get them. What happens to "abusers" is not my concern, do what you want.

Originally Posted by andy

if i can add something else to your model, maybe just for the last two ranks to make it more competitive and to make the last two ranks tougher to achieve: Rank 10 Ace :
for each plane: 3000 Kills - 5x Multi-Kill - 20 Kills in a row -
in total: 100 victories in TBD - 100 victories in Ball - 10 ffa victories - 5 tbd victories in a row - 5 ball victories in a row.

i added "in total" since i think its possible to play a single tbd match with more than one plane. Obviously the tbd/ffa/ball victories would count only if obtained on official servers (official 1-3) with at least 6 people in the server.

Two major flaws. First of all this model forced TBD players to play ball even if they hate it, and ball players to play TBD even if they hate it. Secondly, why would only official servers be counted? It's just as easy to abuse them as it is any other server when it happens to be empty.

Basically what ever you do this system will be abused. Players will get to games alone and get the wins, or with their clan and get the wins. And they'll have to do it for game modes they don't like. No vote for this idea from me.



To be honest the only system fair for all kinds of players is the xp system as that's something common for all game modes and play styles. That's why I suggested the plane dependent xp system which is hugely improved from the current system.

[-MH-CaptainVogez]

Maimer I think you've definately hit the head of the nail with the bot-farming problem.
Sorry for not writing a massively productive post, but I second your entire post practically.
In fact I nearly support everything thats been said here.

[wolf'j'max]

I actually also support all these things. I just love getting multikils
I only don't know this yet. Will you still have to unlock all the planes/perks or do you keep your planes?

[matattack]

i say you get ace rank 10 after getting 100,000 kills..

hehe.

[r87]

Originally Posted by matattack

i say you get ace rank 10 after getting 100,000 kills..

hehe.

I am 40% there

>_>

<_<

[mikesol]

Originally Posted by matattack

i say you get ace rank 10 after getting 100,000 kills..

hehe.

Mat should qualify that by saying 100,000 kills with one plane

[DiogenesDog]

I like Maimer's suggestion of adding some really hardcore skill-based challenges with some special reward attached, but that said...

I think you're really missing the point of this feature. It's for guys that like the grind and sense of constant progression. And although this may disgust you personally, a LOT of people really love it. What you're proposing is cool, but it fills a totally different need.

[nesnl]

Originally Posted by DiogenesDog

I like Maimer's suggestion of adding some really hardcore skill-based challenges with some special reward attached, but that said...

I think you're really missing the point of this feature. It's for guys that like the grind and sense of constant progression. And although this may disgust you personally, a LOT of people really love it. What you're proposing is cool, but it fills a totally different need.

I understand the "grind" mentality (I am a reformed WoW player). However, I think in this case it is hurting the game far more than it is helping. Having people constantly reset back to level 1 means that you see far more loopys and bombers than anything else. This is making the games revert back to what they were like back in the days of the unlimited demo.

I think that looking at the system I proposed it has many flaws, but I just wanted to get the conversation started. I wanted that question out there of 'how do we make this better?' I think the key is to make it so that Ace Ranks do not reset all your planes and perks. As for what system is used beyond that, I am still thinking of what would be optimal.

Here is another scenario (which is partly taken from other people's suggestions). Have something like 5 categories for each plane. Let's say they are: kills, multi-kills, kills in a row, base damage, and goals (however, these might not be the ideal categories, but just as a template). Then let's say that to attain an Ace Rank that you need to complete a certain number of categories no matter the plane or the order. So for example, we could say that Ace Rank 1 would be to complete 5 categories (maybe this could increase by 1 each rank or just be 5 categories for each rank).

So for example, let's say it starts off with 500 kills as one "challenge" and that number would increase by 500 each time you completed it with a plane. You could get 500 kills with each plane and get an Ace Rank or, if you only liked playing Loopy, you could get 500 and then it would automatically unlock 1000 which you could then complete and so on. So basically it would allow the freedom to complete them in any order on any plane and wouldn't force you to complete them with every plane. This would also allow for more freedom of "grinding" by having categories like kills or goals (which happen just by grinding) or more skill based categories like multi-kills or kills in a row that would allow more skilled players to attain the ranks that way.

Anyway, just some ideas. I would like to hear more thoughts and ideas about how this could be improved.

[DiogenesDog]

meh, I think the lack of plane variety won't be an issue for much longer. just need to give it time so that it's not like everyone reset their ranks at the same time.

[innerlyte]

I agree that although Prestige is based on a cool concept, the current system is broken. I do like the idea of a challenge- or merit-based system rather than XP. At the moment, there is no difference between an Ace level 3 and an Ace level 7. All that really says is someone played through the ranks a few more times than the other.

The idea I have is based on modern military service and campaign decorations. It would require a significant deal of work from the devs, but it would provide Altitude with so much more depth. Basically, there would be a long list of challenges. We've seen some good suggestions in previous threads (I may dig some up later). Some challenges would be plane specific, while others very general -- to accommodate the plane specialists and also the more rounded player. Challenges would range from very easy to near impossible (I love games that have that one challenge you may never get). Each completed challenge awards the player a ribbon. We've all seen these before. See the following links for clarification:

http://www.armynavywisconsin.com/med...taryawards.jpg

http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Aw...Precedence.htm

Some of these ribbons would be achieved through non-conventional means, for example, participation in Altitude Proleague could earn you a ribbon unique to that event. You could also earn them from helping the community. I don't know how popular community points are these days, but I feel like I haven't heard much about the system since it was introduced. Something like this may be a better alternative.

The biggest challenge in implementing this system would be working it into the UI. Players may need profiles to display their awards. Maybe a small pop-up window would display on mouse-over showing a fellow player's plane current plane specific awards. Who knows. Maybe someone else would have a better idea here.

Being able to start over is a fun idea, but perhaps trivial. Doing it 10x seems kind of redundant. It might be nice to keep the ability to restart, but maybe not as part of the Prestige System. Anyway, that's just what popped into my head a few mins ago. Hopefully, other people will like this idea and be able to expand upon it. Keep the ideas coming

[duck]

I like this idea more than the current one which really only shows how much you've played.

Also, Maybe we could have separate ranks for each plane? So like, I may be able to pull off a rank 4 or 5 Ace with a biplane but only have an ordinary lvl 60 miranda since I can't fly the damn thing without crashing 3 times.

[Herodadotus]

I like this idea, Maimer. A lot of level 60 players are choosing to ignore prestige in order to kill more ace players and brag about it.

[gemigemi]

Originally Posted by nesnl

I think that looking at the system I proposed it has many flaws, but I just wanted to get the conversation started. I wanted that question out there of 'how do we make this better?' I think the key is to make it so that Ace Ranks do not reset all your planes and perks. As for what system is used beyond that, I am still thinking of what would be optimal.

Have you read my "separate xp bar for each plane" suggestion? Imho that avoids the problems that your original system has, isn't too complicated, and gives you a reason to play all planes.

[Loli.ta]

When I see get X amount of kills without dying, I think ratiowhoring to the maximum degree. When I see multikill, I think going to a hard wall ball server and camping the environment with an Explodet. That's how I looked at your goals. But I do agree that change of the Ace rankings would be necessary. I don't really care too much about it, I still play like normal (as bad as humanly possible), I still have my fun. ( I could still complain about useless players that don't help a team, but hey, that's only a nitpik.)

[gemigemi]

Originally Posted by Loli.ta

When I see get X amount of kills without dying, I think ratiowhoring to the maximum degree. When I see multikill, I think going to a hard wall ball server and camping the environment with an Explodet.

Exactly what many players will most likely do.

Basically the problem is that the system must fit all game modes (tbd, ball, tdm, ffa, ...) and all play styles (attack, defense, mid field, ...) and that makes specific goals really hard to achieve for certain players and quite easy for some.

[nesnl]

Originally Posted by gemigemi

Exactly what many players will most likely do.

Basically the problem is that the system must fit all game modes (tbd, ball, tdm, ffa, ...) and all play styles (attack, defense, mid field, ...) and that makes specific goals really hard to achieve for certain players and quite easy for some.

I don't see it having to fit anything specifically. I think that ideally, the goals could be wide ranging to include all game modes and styles of play, and would only require completion of a certain number of those goals in order to progress to the next level.

Although I do like Redshift's suggestion about having various different challenges that would allow for the earning of badges. However, this would require an in game viewable profile of each player (something we have been asking for anyway so that we could view other people's ratios, playtime, experience, etc).

[gemigemi]

Originally Posted by nesnl

I don't see it having to fit anything specifically. I think that ideally, the goals could be wide ranging to include all game modes and styles of play, and would only require completion of a certain number of those goals in order to progress to the next level.

This could indeed work if players are allowed to achieve the ranks by selecting which achievements to go for, and only a smaller selection of them is needed. This could include things from multikills to kill streaks to base hits to goals to surviving a lot of damage (through repair/health kits) to causing a lot of damage to ... you name it.

[r87]

I don't care what happens but if you reset my rank I will probably jump off a bridge.

[gemigemi]

Originally Posted by r87

I don't care what happens but if you reset my rank I will probably jump off a bridge.

You're probably not the only one and I think that resetting will probably not come into question for the devs. It's always a bad idea to piss off the players.

[as red as black]

i like this system. I'd already be rank 10 and wouldn't have to do anything haha

[sHut eM DoWN]

in the future id also like to see an option where u pick the badge u want to wear, you know, so when people start to get up the ranks